150 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

@ Rive your images seem not to be clickable?

Ah nevermind must have been net lag or something lol

Modifié par Feraele, 13 avril 2010 - 10:30 .

[addiction21]

Feraele wrote...

@ Rive your images seem not to be clickable?

Ah nevermind must have been net lag or something lol

Sorry it was us filthy Americans hogging up the bandwidth to look at waffles and pron

[monochrome2]

CptPatch wrote...

For those that not have followed the error-corrections exchanges, I
made two primary errors:
1) If one did not register one or more of
the games, the equivalent number of tokens could be garnered by filling
out a questionnaire.  I originally ommitted that as an option in the
article.  [Since corrected.]
2) You could NOT get additional tokens
if you had more than one copy/format of a given game.  [Since
corrected.]

The reason the final draft contained those egregious
errors was because I _had_ been planning to doublecheck the details by
reviewing the Contest Rules.  Unfortunately, BW took down ALL of the
Bazaar info minutes after the last auction ended.  And if those things
are posted _anywhere_ on the Internet, I request that they post a link
to them.  I spent the better part of an hour Searching, but with no
success.


[Yes, I just "spammed" several auction threads.  But doing so doesn't
get any of us anything other than a better feeling of the overall
community feeling towards how the Bazaar went.  More votes = less bias. 
I encourage everyone and anyone to get others to vote as well.  I don't
care if they're "GREAT!" votes or "Bogus!" votes; I want to get a
better idea of what The Truth is (whatever _that_ may be).  Even if it
means that I have to eat a heaping dish of crow.]

http://social.biowar...34397/1#2252057

I may appear to be a "sore loser" -- from your perspective especially --
but in fact, there really wasn't _anything_ on the prize list that
appealed to me.  It's a side-effect of being "comfortably well off" in
my declining years.  My PC is already top-of-the-line and those graphics
cards and what-not would actually be a degradation of what I already
have.  All the other stuff....If I wanted any of it, I _already_ have
it.  And I'm waaaaayyyyy too lazy to try to sell stuff to others. 
(Which helps to explain why I've got nearly a thousand PC games from the
last 20 years or so in my storage unit downstairs.)

http://social.biowar...index/2220295/2

So
let me get this right, you don't fact check, don't mind spamming when it suits
your goals and like lumping people in groups with labels like "UGLY"
and admit to being lazy and well off.   Wow, I am glad I read your posts
and took you seriously.   So what on Earth is your problem?  I
am completely lost it appeared at first you were trying to stand on some
morally high ground that has fallen out from under you at this point.  I thought it was spamming but see you really have no objection to that, then I thought it was the exclusion of others but with the elitist comments and attitude you seem adept at that as well.

Could the Bazaar have been ran better? Yes.  Was it an atrocity to all those that could not or would not participate?  No , it was ignored for the most part once people realized what the rules were.  Did it lower Americas world standing ?  Please you have got to be kidding me ,anyone who clicked the link and was spammed would not have thought "Those damn greedy americans are at it again!"

Do
you just not like Americans because that appears to be the only point you have left.
Unless.... Oh crap I've been trolled  

Modifié par monochrome2, 13 avril 2010 - 02:38 .

[CptPatch]

Rive Caedo wrote...

CptPatch wrote...
The reason the final draft contained those egregious errors was because I _had_ been planning to doublecheck the details by reviewing the Contest Rules.  Unfortunately, BW took down ALL of the Bazaar info minutes after the last auction ended.  And if those things are posted _anywhere_ on the Internet, I request that they post a link to them.  I spent the better part of an hour Searching, but with no success.

While I suspect I might not be wild about whatever conclusions you draw from them, fine. Here you go

Bazaar Rules

THANK YOU!  (A photo image?  Never even thought to look for one of those.  Duh.)

[Ah!  No wonder it didn't pop up earlier: it wasn't posted to Photobucket until the 13th.]

Modifié par CptPatch, 13 avril 2010 - 07:25 .

[CptPatch]

monochrome2 wrote...
Did it lower Americas world standing ?  Please you have got to be kidding me ,anyone who clicked the link and was spammed would not have thought "Those damn greedy americans are at it again!"

Do you just not like Americans because that appears to be the only point you have left.

@7 billion people in the world.  How many people in that number need to pissed off before you think that there has been a "significant" negative PR impact?

As many people asserted, I posted a link that led to HookedGamers.com, where I posted the article.  ["Oh, the hypocrisy of it all!  He spammed us!"  Yeah, Yeah.  The alternative was making a three-foot long post -- for whic I'm certain you would also b--, complained.]  Contrary to your knee-jerk reaction, I'm not a _paid_ writer.  NOBODY at HG gets paid; ad revenue is used strictly to pay the server site-hosting fees.

BUT, since HG is HQ'd in the Netherlands, I get feedback from people all over Europe, the US, Canada, and Australia.  Once the Bazaar started, I started to get emails from European gamers that essentially said, "What's up with you Yanks?" and went on to say that their (fill-n-the-blank) forum [which happened to be an international forum, but mostly trafficked by Europeans] had been hit with spam that led back to the Bazaar.  As I was one of the few Americans that they interacted with, could I lend an insight?

[For some strange reason, BioWare -- though based in Canada -- is perceived in other parts of the world as an American entity.  Probably because that's where most of their customers are.  And they're owned by EA, which is based in California.]

Anyway, numerous emails, and they ALL were querying about _American_ behavior.  And you're most likely think, "So what do a few emails prove?"  Sorry, didn't have the time or funding to conduct full-blown university-backed opinion survey.  But I think it's actually safe to conclude that for every one of those emails, there were scores more (at minimum) of members of those spammed forums that had a similar reaction.  And MANY of those people more than likely aired their anger about _American_ spammers dumping in their (international) forums.

So, will there be a _significant_ uptick in resentment towards Americans?  Well, it's not like we nuked a city or invaded another country recently.

Hmm.  I just had this image pop into my head.  So you've got this garage band that's trying to make the Big Time.  And because of the members' work schedules, rehearsals have to be done late into the night.  Do you actually care what the neighbors think about all the racket that goes on until 11 p.m.?  For many people, caring doesn't start until a cop shows up at the door, saying, "We've had some complaints...."

Well, "We've had some complaints...."

monochrome2 wrote...
Unless.... Oh crap I've been trolled  

How much do you care about honesty?  Hearing both sides of an argument before jumping to conclusions?  About "fair and balanced" reporting of "the facts"?

These are public forums.  EVERYBODY here is entitled to state their opinions on pretty much everything.  You have your opinions of how the Bazaar went.  How would/do you feel about the idea of a thread where the ONLY representation of "the facts" is 180-degrees from your view?  How would you react to, when you chime in to set the record straight, people telling you to "shut your lying mouth!"  Because, after all, they KNOW The Facts, and anyone that says differently MUST be a liar....or a troll...or.....

This is about as much as "my" thread as a thread can be.  Here I stated my opinion -- which is pointedly my _opinion_.  And -- foolish me -- I went and invited others that _pointedly_ have nearly the opposite opinion to come and present their views as well.   Can't be "fair" if you're not willing the other person's side of the story.  For which I have been described as a liar, a hypocrite, a spammer, an incompetent researcher, a person that MUST hate America, a ....

...and now, I'm a troll.  No, wait, I know what I am!  I'm a masochist!  Must be, all things considered.

Modifié par CptPatch, 13 avril 2010 - 07:27 .

[Crixt]

You seem to think that because a few euros sent you emails, that the opinion of Americans will be affected the way the oceans would be affected, by, say, a medium size asteroid, or perhaps a small earthquake. Hey, its not a MAJOR earthquake, but it still has an effect!



It's more like throwing a rock in the ocean. Only the people who cared enough to pay very close attention even saw it, almost none of them were affected by it, and they will all shortly forget about it.



I've said it before and I'll say it again. If this even at ALL has any lasting impression on any community, due to spamming (which it wont) it would be a Bioware issue, not an American issue.

[monochrome2]

CptPatch wrote...
Hearing both sides of an argument before jumping to conclusions?  About "fair and balanced" reporting of "the facts"?

These are public forums.  EVERYBODY here is entitled to state their opinions on pretty much everything.  You have your opinions of how the Bazaar went.  How would/do you feel about the idea of a thread where the ONLY representation of "the facts" is 180-degrees from your view?  How would you react to, when you chime in to set the record straight, people telling you to "shut your lying mouth!"  Because, after all, they KNOW The Facts, and anyone that says differently MUST be a liar....or a troll...or.....

This is about as much as "my" thread as a thread can be.  Here I stated my opinion -- which is pointedly my _opinion_.  And -- foolish me -- I went and invited others that _pointedly_ have nearly the opposite opinion to come and present their views as well.   Can't be "fair" if you're not willing the other person's side of the story.  For which I have been described as a liar, a hypocrite, a spammer, an incompetent researcher, a person that MUST hate America, a ....

...and now, I'm a troll.  No, wait, I know what I am!  I'm a masochist!  Must be, all things considered.

Oh, please where is my emoticon for the world’s smallest
violin I can't seem to find it...  In all seriousness you admitted to not
doing your research, spamming these forums (hypocrisy as one of your arguments
against the Bazaar was spam) and calling Americans Ugly. So I called you a spammer a hypocrite and an incompetent researcher ,  I never called you a
liar.   You have some valid points but went about presenting them the
wrong way (incorrect evidence being the most egregious when you want to say
words like fair and balanced but does make you sound FOX newsish).  I can provide tons of evidence (my friend in Peru emailed me and loved the spam links,no not really but you get the point) to back up my claims to but without facts or with inacurate information it becomes, well worthless.

Modifié par monochrome2, 13 avril 2010 - 08:03 .

[CptPatch]

Crixt wrote...
 and they will all shortly forget about it.

THIS is, without a doubt, the truest thing I seen you post.  People these days seem to have the attention span....of a creature with a _really_ short attention span.  [Oh, my.  Did I just make _another_ broad generalization?  ]

But, seriously, it's true.  Like, what percentage of people even think on the earthquake aftermath in Haiti?  Or spent more than a minute pondering the implication of the plane crash in Russia that wiped out most of the Polish government?  Or wonder about the outcome of the investigation of the Toyota sticky accelerator investigation? 

Unless an event impacts _them_ personally, and it's happening RIGHT NOW, most people [damn, generalizing again!] tend to "move on" with their lives.  Which is both a Good Thing and a Bad Thing.  It's a Good Thing because there is just waaaaaayyyyy too much s*** going on, it's impossible to stay focused on anything for very long.  And it's a Bad Thing because often, things that really _need_ people's attention in order to remedy whatever the situation is, fades from sight before the resolution happens.

[Rive Caedo]

CptPatch wrote...

Rive Caedo wrote...

CptPatch wrote...
The reason the final draft contained those egregious errors was because I _had_ been planning to doublecheck the details by reviewing the Contest Rules.  Unfortunately, BW took down ALL of the Bazaar info minutes after the last auction ended.  And if those things are posted _anywhere_ on the Internet, I request that they post a link to them.  I spent the better part of an hour Searching, but with no success.

While I suspect I might not be wild about whatever conclusions you draw from them, fine. Here you go

Bazaar Rules

THANK YOU!  (A photo image?  Never even thought to look for one of those.  Duh.)

[Ah!  No wonder it didn't pop up earlier: it wasn't posted to Photobucket until the 13th.]

Right, that was just me being nice. I could have given you a link to the Google Cache I actually used:
http://webcache.goog...ction_rules.php

But since several of the other Google cache pages for the Bazaar have already been updated to "The Bazaar is now closed" already (contest details, for instance), I feared that the rules page would/will update soon too.

So I quickly rounded up the rules into an image and lassoed them to a Photobucket account. Because I am an American cowboy

[Crimsonbeak]

So any word on how winners will be confirmed?

[IamDanThaMan]

The fact that people feel that they were somehow wronged because the contest giving away free stuff was not fair are just plain annoying to me. These people would not be complaining if it was a random giveaway, but because Bioware actually made it so that people could actually determine the outcome, they are whining about it. You can complain about it all day, but everyone had the same rules they had to follow, some may have had extra resources at their disposal, but everyone started on the same footing. I personally didn't spam or beg anyone for clicks, I just put it in my sig on this forum and on one other site and was just a bit more active in the forums than I usually was and I ended up with over 11000 points, and I didn't even win any twitter contests.

[CptPatch]

IamDanThaMan wrote...
I personally didn't spam or beg anyone for clicks, I just put it in my sig on this forum and on one other site

Now, that's something that some people might describe as "begging".  It may have been low key and restrained, but it still boils down to, "Please do this for my benefit."

Which highlights that different definitions and interpretations of a given action.  Depending on what _you_ think is "right" or "wrong" or "undignified" or "dignified" will determine whether you praise or condemn others.  As an analogy:

You've got a game show.  Sort of a "Truth or Consequences" type show.   Contestants are brought on stage and presented with the Rules that lay out How To Win:  After a Challenge phase, contestants will spin a large wheel.  On the wheel is a portion marked "win".  How big that portion will be will be determined by how they perform in the Challenge phase.

The Challenge phase has three tiers:
1) If the contestant agrees to strip naked and stay on stage for all to see, the "win" portion of the wheel will be LARGE.
2) If the contestant agrees to only strip down to his underwear, then the "win" portion of the wheel will be **small**.
3) If the contestant refuse to strip off anything, there is no "win" portion; just a VERY thin line.

Those are the Rules.  You want the best chance if winning, get naked  (Ehich, though not necesarrily illegal in this setting, _Is_ still held by most people to morally suspect.).  PLUS they get to spin first.  Next comes the semi-naked.  Provided there's anything left to win, they get to go for their share.  Finally, the fully clothed take their shots.

So, there's your pool of contestants.

First thing to happen is the people that simply refuse to play because "This is too demeaning!"  How do you think they will describe those other people that _do_ play the game?  Deviants?  Unscrupulous?  Morally degenerate?  The point is, their criticism is actually aimed at the top tier.  And those labels do not actually apply to all of the
contestants.

Then the game starts.  The nakeds are running away with the bulk of the prizes.  _They_ are ecstatic about their prizes -- but nobody else is happy for them.  Now there's additional complaints aimed at the top tier -- who defend themselves by saying, "Well that's what the Rules said would offer the best chance to win!  _YOU_ other
people could have had the same chance we had, but _you_ chose not to!"

Now comes the semi-naked have their shot.  They tend to think that the nakeds were crazy idiots with no sense of propriety, and may even say so.  Yeah, they got down to their underwear, but it's not like they were standing there naked.  And as the spins go around, it just happens they take home all of the remaining prizes.

Which leaves the fully clothed with nothing but a "Thank you for playing the Game!"   So now they're complaining about how the game was "rigged" to make good, honest people do morally objectionable things -- and some
moral degenerates did exactly that.So equate "getting nekkid" with spamming, and "stripping down to your underwear just to win something" as being "undignified".

A) Will the "nakeds" acknowledge that they did anything wrong?  No: "We did just what the Rules said was necessary to win!  EVERYONE else had the same opportunity to do what we did; it was _their_ choice to not do likewise!  They've got no one to blame for not winning except themselves!"

Will the "semi-nakeds" acknowledge that they did anything wrong?  No: "Pft!  It's not like we got naked!  And it was acceptable under the Rules!  EVERYONE else had the same opportunity we did; they've got no one to blame for not winning except themselves!"

C) Then there's the "fully clothed" saying "The Game was rigged so only people with questionable morals could win!"  In their minds, they were penalized because they were "dignified" -- which is _supposed_ to be a trait that gets people rewarded.

EVERYBODY has an idea of what _they_ think is "proper".  People that go beyond those limits are "improper" while others that adhere to an even stricter code are "too uptight".  EVERYBODY.

Are any of the accusations flying around valid?  Yes, they are -- to the people making them.
Are any of the accusations flying around unwarranted?  Yes, they are -- to the people being "wrongfully" accused.

Unless any of us can think of a foolproof method to move someone else's moral compass, all that is likely to happen -- what _has been happening, is that people will be pointing fingers and "proving" (at least to their own satisfaction) that it was Those People that have been/are Wrong and Wrong-headed,.

So, the likelihood of arriving at any meaningful resolution is somewhere between Nil and Zip.  All people can do -- have been doing -- is vent.

Catharsis -- soooo good for one's soul!

Modifié par CptPatch, 14 avril 2010 - 04:51 .

[IamDanThaMan]

Yes, but that is their choice, if they choose not to participate, that is not Bioware's fault. As you said, none of the prizes were something that couldn't be gained easily by buying them, so who cares? Bioware gets to choose how the prizes are distributed. The only way for everybody to be happy is if the contest never happened, but they wanted to give some stuff away and this is how they wanted to do it. The main benefit to Bioware in this is more traffic to their site via the referral links, so obviously that is what they are going to encourage people to do to gain an advantage over others. The main problem is that some people feel that they were more deserving of the prizes than others, get over it. Just because the contest may have not been fair does not mean that people who were less deserving than others won. Nobody deserves to be given free stuff, and the people who think that they do deserve it need a reality check.

[scottshelby]

I really don't understand this whole "humiliating yourself to get a prize." It's an online contest and everyone is anonymous. The only people who could be shamed by revealing their identity are those who spammed their friends with referral clicks but if they're your friends they really shouldn't care. I get spammed all the time with that Farmville stuff and I've never disowned my friends over it and that has been going on for months.

Here's how the contest went for me and pretty much everyone I saw win. Everyone is in a room. They're told to go out and high five random people. Everyone in that room decides they're not going to leave the room. They're all just going to high five each other for points. The end.

Modifié par scottshelby, 14 avril 2010 - 06:11 .

[CptPatch]

Guys, gals, folks.

EVERYBODY has an idea of what _they_ think is "proper".  People that go
beyond those limits are "improper" while others that adhere to an even
stricter code are "too uptight".  EVERYBODY.

Step out of yourselves for a moment and look at what you are doing.

Are you looking at those other people and saying, "_They_ have it wrong"?  Forget the reasons why; just that.  Yes? 

Is there _anything_, anything in the whole wide world that they could say that would prompt you to change your mind on that subject?  No?

Then why is it so hard to understand that, for whatever their reasoning, they are maintaining an exact mirror of what it is that you are doing?

Does everybody here seem to think that, "IF I raise my voice, and IF I describe in colorful language and derogatory labels long enough, they simply MUST see just how correct I am and just how wrong they are"?

Days of these exchanges and has a single solitary person budged so much as a millimeter from his initial position?

Democrats versus Republicans
Christians versus Muslims
Haves versus Have Nots
Jocks versus Nerds

Yes, there is the exceedingly rare instance where an individual changes sides.  But I'll tell you, in all those cases, it was NOT because the opposing group kept telling in repeatedly and emphatically just how wrong he was.

[placeboblack]

People need to stop and think why they are so defensive about either side of this issue. I'm a bit crestfallen about the whole ordeal, and I know why, I never had a chance at winning anything because 1) I dont do facebook 2) I dont do twitter. All I know is that I love Bioware and the games they make, and it would have been nice for someone like me to have had a chance to win even a napkin from their cafeteria.



To the winners: congrats. But even you guys feel the need to defend yourselves from the "losers", theres gotta be a reason deep down inside as to why. Maybe you too know it was a tad bit unfair for people like me but to keep yourselves from feeling guilty you defend yourselves ardently.

[angiek76]

Fine, we that won are shameless for asking for clicks, for tweeting, for spamming, etc etc



I'll accept that--along with the Dragon Age T-shirt pack I won

[CptPatch]

angiek76 wrote...

Fine, we that won are shameless for asking for clicks, for tweeting, for spamming, etc etc

But you are _not_ "shameless".  I am absolutely certain that you behaved in an entirely proper manner -- according to your own moral code, which is as distinct as everyone else's moral codes.

I believe that much of the heat that has been generated essentially from people complaining "I didn't win anything 'cuz I've got principles!" and winners jumping to the conclusion, "I suppose that means that _I_ don't???"  And then we're off to the races.

Every time someone said, "It's wrong to ________" odds were that they failed to mention "for _me_".  Not surprising that so many felt that there were accusations being hurled right at them.

There were undoubtedly _some_ participants that out-and-out cheated, probably even according to their own standards.  And there were undoubtedly some participants that brazenly spammed.  (Though I think that many of them rationalize doing so by saying, "The _Rules_ made me do it!")  However, the large majority of those participants remain unidentified.  Whatever the case may be, it is probably safest to assume that the overwhelming majority of complaints were actually directed at those people.

After all, for any of you who feel that you were being personally attacked, do you recall any instances of someone saying, "You, __________, are a Bad Person!!!!"?  Or in third-person, "________ is a Bad Person!!!!"?)

I'll admit readily that I, myself, have slung around some pretty caustic remarks regarding of the behavior of some of the participants.  But I recall only one instance of actually accusing ONE person in particular of cheating.  (And I equally certain that that individual will see what he had done as "cheating".  Probably more of "just trying to see if I would have been able to win."  [He lived in NY and _knew_ he was ineligible.])

EVERYBODY operates under what is -- to them -- the "right" moral code: their own.  Unfortunately, too often they forget to insert the words "for me" when they wail about something being "wrong".

[angiek76]

Oh, no...I was shameless I called friends at 2am Saturday (Central) when the 'click' countdown rolled over to a new day to click my link to give me that extra little push to win something! lol (lucky for me most of them were just getting home from the bars/clubs)



To each their own...I wanted to win-and did.

[CptPatch]

angiek76 wrote...

Oh, no...I was shameless I called friends at 2am Saturday (Central) when the 'click' countdown rolled over to a new day to click my link to give me that extra little push to win something! lol (lucky for me most of them were just getting home from the bars/clubs)

To each their own...I wanted to win-and did.

Well then, who am I to argue that sticking point?  "If the shoe fits...."    [Proudly, as it happens.  You set a goal and achieved it.]

Modifié par CptPatch, 14 avril 2010 - 08:32 .

[fangedwolf]

This thread has kind of gone somewhat off-topic into the dangerous realm of veiled insults and defending of one's honour and actions.

Maybe its time to let this thread die and move on.

[joey_mork84]

fangedwolf wrote...

Maybe its time to let this thread die and move on.

*Charges in with Great Sword of Thread Slashing and decapitates thread..*

Wish granted.. 

*:ph34r:Disappears into the shadows *

[CptPatch]

fangedwolf wrote...
Maybe its time to let this thread die and move on.

True, true.  There's bit very little new material added (other than Creative Insulting 101 perhaps) for quite awhile.  Probably time to stop the (un)merry-go-'round.

[joey_mork84]

CptPatch wrote...

fangedwolf wrote...
Maybe its time to let this thread die and move on.

True, true.  There's bit very little new material added (other than Creative Insulting 101 perhaps) for quite awhile.  Probably time to stop the (un)merry-go-'round.

Wanna spam it with funny pictures? If nothing else it will lighten everyone's day and make them laugh