28 réponses à ce sujet

[Johannicus]

I would love to see her or a character similar to her as a romantic option in the future or as a part of a DLC. I dont understand why Bioware always make the intelligent women in their games unavailable. As a mage its more likley that I would go for someone with high intellect and less childish attitude. Is there any mod out there that makes this possible?

[NamiraWilhelm]

It would be cool if they made everyone an option for romance. Just excluding Shale and Dog. Loghain would definately be an interesting one...



A mod for that would be pretty empty wouldnt it? With no real vocal dialogue between you and her?

[oyzar]

Romance for wynne specifically would be rather weird as *spoiler* she is rather close to death *spoiler*. Mature characters in general are not implemented as romanceable because a very minor part of the audience would find that desirable and those that do would probably buy the game regardless (adding another young romance option would be more likely to attract more people. 4 is already a lot considering how much it requires to voice over everything).

[Halkus]

To be honest they can't have too much in the games, as oyzar said it's a lot of voice over/continuity work. Personally I don't particularly care for the romances, sure I'll do em,. but in most games I'll do as much as is possible as that's just the way I play games, I guess I'm a perfectionist.



They do seem to stereotype things a bit though... but I guess that might be the genre as well.



You're right in that it'd have to be DLC in order to work, because I'd imagine it'd be flat without a voiceover.



Certainly I wouldn't buy new content that way, then again I certainly don't speak for everybody, there seems to be a lot of interest in the romances in Bioware games, so perhaps there is a market for it.

[DaCoo]

To be honest the romance in a game to me seems pointless anyway. Woo a kiss? A bra? Oh lord my my. I just don't see what people get from pretending to like a 3D figure that unless you have some super power and can make real (If you can let me know I could use your help with Tifa) would be pointless to go along on a fake romance. There are dating sims out there for that. As I said before that is just my opinion.

[NamiraWilhelm]

What i like about the romance options is the way they pull you deeper into the game and make you feel more involved, might sound sad yes but i get totally involved in games when i play them anyway. I would definately be up for continuing romances and the opportunities for new ones.

[Lintanis]

The romances do make the characters a bit more rounded and its a choice dont have to romance any of them .

[ZMJ10]

I think wynne is kinda hot even though she is probally in her 60's+ Older women are sexy.



Wine tastes better aged and so do women they get sweeter

[jenncgf]

ZMJ10, remind me to look you up in 20 years or so

[RogueWriter3201]

Point of fact, I've always been partial to Wynne a great deal, despite the fact that I tried, as BioWare intended, to see her only as a molding of Obi-Wan and Gandalf, just with reproductive organs on the inside. However, try as I might, it's just so easy to become enamored with Wynne. Her unpompus Intellect, her Strength, Kindness, and her Love for just being alive with good drinks and warm friends. I enjoyed what BioWare did with Leliana and Morrigan, for the most part, but in conparison to Wynne both of the other female companions just feel empty and sterotypical.

Having grown up in SoCal during the height of the 'Valley-Girl' craze in the early 90s, hearing Leliana bring up a love of shoes just...ugh...it *deflated* me, so to speak.

With Morrigan I just got tired of the sophisticated Snark. Yes, it's possible to over-do sophisticated snark BioWare, regardless of the pretty package it's wrapped in.

With Wynne I never got tired or felt forced to listen to everything. I've played DA:O more times than I like to think about, and not once have I *ever* felt the desire to hit the skip button for any of Wynne's dialogue. That in itself highlights just how wonderful the character is. Its rare in life to meet someone who draws one's ear because you know that whatever they are about to say is worth hearing, even if they are likely to repeat something they may have touched on before. That's how it is with Wynne.

As to her Age? Well, though I'm in my late 20s I've always been partial to older women, even when I was in my teens. Much as has been touched on in this thread already, there is just something...satifiying... about connecting with a Woman who has been through so much of life thus far that she's just tired of the BS that most younger women wear about them like a shawl. Experiance is a heady thing. Also, there is *some* argument as to Wynne's exact Age. Many assumed she was in her early 60s, where as the Dragon Age Wiki has jumped between early to late 50s more than once. Gaider has also chimed in on her Age, but has *also* changed his answer on more than one occasion. I would safely assume early 50s. She talks about her Age as if she's ancient, but one has to keep in mind that in the quasi-medevil setting of DA reaching that age would be a rare thing for Humans. In the modern context, 50 is the new 40 if you've bothered to take care of yourself. 

As for Wynne's *imposing death* I think it's easy to misunderstand her situation. Wynne died, and was brought back by an Angel...Uh, I mean *Benevolant Fade Spirit*... to, as she believes, finish some overly important task. However, over the course of her journey it's more apparent that Wynne was returned for the simple fact that the world was lessened without her, and that it was just something *right* to keep her alive. The fact that the Epilogue cards indicate that she continued to live for quite some time highlights that she was not meant to die anytime soon. 

I know it's unlikely that Wynne will ever become a Romance Interest in Dragon Age's future sojourns; I don't see 'em pulling a Tali on this one. However, the most we can hope for is that, for future games, the Devs don't go with only the sterotypical "Young, Pretty Package' concepts, and instead try to give us something Real. In essence, BioWare, please give us a Woman, not a Girl. 
   

[Dragonairess]

[quote]glenboy24 wrote...

Point of fact, I've always been partial to Wynne a great deal, despite the fact that I tried, as BioWare intended, to see her only as a molding of Obi-Wan and Gandalf<<

I very much agree with your statement.  I liked Wynne from the jump.  I enjoy her sidebar conversations with Alistair, in particular.  She has the most endearing laugh.  As a female player who prefers to play the alpha female PC, the romance aspect of Wynne isn't of specific interest to me, I would've have liked to have had the opportunity to see her more "up close" than what was allowed.  Gluttonous, I know.

>> I *ever* felt the desire to hit the skip button for any of Wynne's dialogue. That in itself highlights just how wonderful the character is. Its rare in life to meet someone who draws one's ear because you know that whatever they are about to say is worth hearing, even if they are likely to repeat something they may have touched on before. That's how it is with Wynne. <<

Again, I agree, but to a lesser degree.  I feel that way about Alistair.  I simply adore him.  I never tire of his conversations.

[amd2112]

Wynne for the win! She's hot. And i get the impression she's a closet case freaky sexaholic. But it could just be wishful thinking.

[ZMJ10]

amd2112 wrote...

Wynne for the win! She's hot. And i get the impression she's a closet case freaky sexaholic. But it could just be wishful thinking.

I wouldnt doubt it she needs a young lad like myself im a women pleaser no matter the age

[Urshakk]

Personal preferences aside, I don't see the point of romancing someone who is going to die soon.

PC: Wynne, I like you.
Wynne: I like you too.
*both start leaning in to kiss*
*Wynne drops dead*
PC: Wynne? Wynne! Wynne!!!!!!

Modifié par Urshakk, 16 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[RogueWriter3201]

Urshakk wrote...

Personal preferences aside, I don't see the point of romancing someone who is going to die soon.

PC: Wynne, I like you.
Wynne: I like you too.
*both start leaning in to kiss*
*Wynne drops dead*
PC: Wynne? Wynne! Wynne!!!!!!

(Laughs) Except Wynne is not going to drop dead. Her fainting spells are due to her body trying to adjust to the presence of the Spirit with-in. As the story progresses, Wynne only grows stronger, and becomes more confident about her being around to support the Warden, despite her earlier musings that she seemed to not have so long to live. Even at the Coronation she basically tells the Warden, "Wow, guess I'm still going to be around for a good long while."

Also, we know from the Epilogue Cards that she lives for *quite* a long time afterward and either goes on a long Journey with Shale to help her get her Dwarven body back, or goes off to become the new First Enchanter. She even appears in Awakening. So, *if* the option had been there to romance her it would not have been pointless. But, since the game has come and gone, let's just hope we get a LI *like* Wynne in future expansions or DA2.

[Lintanis]

Another interesting side to Wynne happens in the Cammen's Lament ques,t if you seduce Gheyna you get +7 approval from her

[Dlokir]

Harold and Maude, a weird but touching love story between a 20 years boy and a 80 years old woman. Yes that can work but well it requires a lot of finesse in story writing, not sure a video game with significant amount of action, exploration and other stuff can deliver such story finesse level.

Perhaps The Witcher show an example, but for me it's not the same level of finesse and for a CRPG not sure it could work well. But well even with onyl a fair level of finesse in the story writing that could have work. Myself I don't care much because I feel all those romance stuff in CRPG rather boring.

[JosieJ]

Urshakk wrote...

Personal preferences aside, I don't see the point of romancing someone who is going to die soon.

You kill darkspawn for a living, Loghain is hiring assassins and placing bounties on your head, and everyone you need something from wants you to undertake dangerous, life-threatening quests before they'll help you.  Anyone and everyone in your party could get killed at any moment.  Wynne's situation is really no different.

Even if you metagame and note that all your companions make it through the epilogue, the same applies to Wynne in that case, too.

[Urshakk]

Glenboy24 wrote...
(Laughs) Except Wynne is not going to drop dead. Her fainting spells are due to her body trying to adjust to the presence of the Spirit with-in. As the story progresses, Wynne only grows stronger, and becomes more confident about her being around to support the Warden, despite her earlier musings that she seemed to not have so long to live. Even at the Coronation she basically tells the Warden, "Wow, guess I'm still going to be around for a good long while."

Also, we know from the Epilogue Cards that she lives for *quite* a long time afterward and either goes on a long Journey with Shale to help her get her Dwarven body back, or goes off to become the new First Enchanter. She even appears in Awakening. So, *if* the option had been there to romance her it would not have been pointless. But, since the game has come and gone, let's just hope we get a LI *like* Wynne in future expansions or DA2.

Ok, I was exaggerating and joking a bit, but I will explain what I really think:

Old woman is old, regardless of the benevolent fade spirit inside of her. Flemeth has a spirit / demon inside of her but her body won't sustain forever, same with Wynne. She says the spirit is weakening and won't last too much longer, she can't find another body like Flemeth. The spirit is keeping her alive, once that goes so does she. There is a banter bewteen her and Morrigan, where Morrigan suggests she force another spirit into her service to prolong her life, and Wynne says she will not. Awakening is what, 6-9 months after Origins or something, so you see her then but I don't see her living much longer past that if what she said is true.

It doesn't even fit her character, she says she wants to help you prepare against the blight. She gives you advice, acts grandmother-like, and she even has a talk with you about romance as a Grey Warden. She would be completely contradicting herself if it was possible.

"...Love is ultimately selfish"
"A Grey Warden cannot afford to be selfish"
"You may have to choose bewteen saving your love or doing your duty. Then what would you do?"

"...Right, that's why I'm sleeping with you."

Lets suppose for a moment that Wynne was romancable, to even it out they would have to add another male option. Lets see Sten, or Oghren.... yea I don't see any of that happening.

Even if someone wanted to mod this, it wouldn't be done justice that the other romances recieved with the same voice actor and writers.

JosieJ wrote...
You kill darkspawn for a living, Loghain is hiring assassins and placing bounties on your head, and everyone you need something from wants you to undertake dangerous, life-threatening quests before they'll help you.  Anyone and everyone in your party could get killed at any moment.  Wynne's situation is really no different.

Even if you metagame and note that all your companions make it through the epilogue, the same applies to Wynne in that case, too.

Of course, but I'm not talking about impending death from combat dangers. I'm talking about impending death from old age, which the rest of the party isn't facing.

Lintanis wrote...

Another interesting side to Wynne happens in the Cammen's Lament ques,t if you seduce Gheyna you get +7 approval from her

This is actually a bug (big surprise right?), you are supposed to lose like 20+ approval with her.

Modifié par Urshakk, 19 avril 2010 - 10:37 .

[RogueWriter3201]

Urshakk wrote...

Glenboy24 wrote...
(Laughs) Except Wynne is not going to drop dead. Her fainting spells are due to her body trying to adjust to the presence of the Spirit with-in. As the story progresses, Wynne only grows stronger, and becomes more confident about her being around to support the Warden, despite her earlier musings that she seemed to not have so long to live. Even at the Coronation she basically tells the Warden, "Wow, guess I'm still going to be around for a good long while."

Also, we know from the Epilogue Cards that she lives for *quite* a long time afterward and either goes on a long Journey with Shale to help her get her Dwarven body back, or goes off to become the new First Enchanter. She even appears in Awakening. So, *if* the option had been there to romance her it would not have been pointless. But, since the game has come and gone, let's just hope we get a LI *like* Wynne in future expansions or DA2.

Ok, I was exaggerating and joking a bit, but I will explain what I really think:

Old woman is old, regardless of the benevolent fade spirit inside of her. Flemeth has a spirit / demon inside of her but her body won't sustain forever, same with Wynne. She says the spirit is weakening and won't last too much longer, she can't find another body like Flemeth. The spirit is keeping her alive, once that goes so does she. There is a banter bewteen her and Morrigan, where Morrigan suggests she force another spirit into her service to prolong her life, and Wynne says she will not. Awakening is what, 6-9 months after Origins or something, so you see her then but I don't see her living much longer past that if what she said is true.

It doesn't even fit her character, she says she wants to help you prepare against the blight. She gives you advice, acts grandmother-like, and she even has a talk with you about romance as a Grey Warden. She would be completely contradicting herself if it was possible.

"...Love is ultimately selfish"
"A Grey Warden cannot afford to be selfish"
"You may have to choose bewteen saving your love or doing your duty. Then what would you do?"

"...Right, that's why I'm sleeping with you."

Lets suppose for a moment that Wynne was romancable, to even it out they would have to add another male option. Lets see Sten, or Oghren.... yea I don't see any of that happening.

Even if someone wanted to mod this, it wouldn't be done justice that the other romances recieved with the same voice actor and writers.

JosieJ wrote...

*snip*

.

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*

Sorry, but your "Old-Age" argument isn't really all that valid, nor are the points you made above. The simple fact of the matter is, regardless of your viewpoint, the *Game* confirms Wynne lives for quite a bit longer after the events of both DAO and DAA if you've read either of the Epilogue Cards. You get two options for Wynne in DAO depending on what routes you take in the game: Either A) She leaves on a Long Journey to help Shale get her Dwarven Body back, and such a Journey would not be a short one. Or She leaves to become the First Enchanter, a title that would not be given to her if she had only a few months to live given that there were likely *other* Senior Enchanters who could be given the Job, especially with the Tower needing a strong guiding hand to help rebuild.

So, look, I'm not saying Wynne will live for another 50 years. That's not possible unless she augments her aging through Magic, and as she made clear to Morrigan that is something she would never even consider. However, given that she's only in her mid to late 50s, it's not impossible for her to live another 20 years or more. Also, a Romance with Wynne (hypothetical at this juncture) would not have to mean White Picket fences with Kids, nor even a long running Romance. Frankly, a Romance like the one Warden's can have with say...Leliana, or Alistair, would *not* be the same kind of Romance one would have with Wynne. More, it would be a Romance of comfort and respect. Enjoying one another's company for a short time before thier respective duties took both her and the Warden in very different directions with the chance to run into one another again, such as in Awakening. Also, had there been a need to add another Romance to balance things out Loghain would have worked for females, though it would have required a extra bit of time with Loghain to flush things out.

As to a Romance not matching her Character? Sorry, but that's not accurate either. Had Gaider and the Writers chosen to include a Romance sub-plot for Wynne it would not have made any difference in the Character what-so-ever. She would have still been the Wise Mentor with a strong penchant for helping others, just with the opportunity to get closer to her and, eventually, share a moment of intimate comfort. If anything, that match's Wynne's character perfectly as it seems like something she prefered over the course of her life. Short, passionate encounters with trusted friends. One that even resulted in a *missing* Son. And, there is *plenty* of indication that Wynne's proverbial *Fires* are still burning if you've listened to her Tongue and Cheek banter with Zevran, Oghren, or Alistair. She's a woman who enjoys Sex, but not in the same malicious way that Morrigan does or the same Rainbows and Butterflies way that Leliana does.

In the end, the dye was cast and Wynne simply became Obi-Wan Kenobi for the Warden -minus the self sacrifice- and that's okay. However, it's nice to be able to entertain the notion of a Romance with Wynne since it *would* have worked in the game, and also it shows the Writers (regardless of how small this thread is) that it would be nice to have a Woman like Wynne in DA2 who is romancable.

[Urshakk]

Fair enough, good points.

Glenboy24 wrote...
And, there is *plenty* of indication that Wynne's proverbial *Fires* are still burning if you've listened to her Tongue and Cheek banter with Zevran, Oghren, or Alistair. She's a woman who enjoys Sex, but not in the same malicious way that Morrigan does or the same Rainbows and Butterflies way that Leliana does.

But this? Why are you even talking about if her *fires* are still going, that was not my point.

It still would of taken extra writing and changes to existing conversations to make it work.

Modifié par Urshakk, 19 avril 2010 - 10:35 .

[JosieJ]

Urshakk wrote...

JosieJ wrote...
You kill darkspawn for a living, Loghain is hiring assassins and placing bounties on your head, and everyone you need something from wants you to undertake dangerous, life-threatening quests before they'll help you.  Anyone and everyone in your party could get killed at any moment.  Wynne's situation is really no different.

Even if you metagame and note that all your companions make it through the epilogue, the same applies to Wynne in that case, too.

Of course, but I'm not talking about impending death from combat dangers. I'm talking about impending death from old age, which the rest of the party isn't facing.

Isn't it rather silly to obsess about her dying of old age when the next genlock could kill you or her just as dead?  "Oh, Wynne, I love you but despite the fact that neither of us is guaranteed to make it until tomorrow, I won't give in to my feelings for you because you'd be closer to death than I'd be if we were 2 ordinary people leading ordinary lives."

[Urshakk]

JosieJ wrote...

Isn't it rather silly to obsess about her dying of old age when the next genlock could kill you or her just as dead? "Oh, Wynne, I love you but despite the fact that neither of us is guaranteed to make it until tomorrow, I won't give in to my feelings for you because you'd be closer to death than I'd be if we were 2 ordinary people leading ordinary lives."

Obsess? Not sure how that was being obsessive, but you missed my point.

[JosieJ]

Maybe I did miss it (and my use of "obsess" was meant to be taken as hyperbole, not literally). My point was, if you and Wynne were ordinary people, in no danger from anybody or anything else, I could see being concerned that she'd probably die sooner. As it is, you're both in dangerous situations from which you might not escape on an hourly basis, why not grab a little happiness while you can?  (If that were an option, that is.)

Modifié par JosieJ, 19 avril 2010 - 08:22 .

[Urshakk]

True, but this is a game, so dangerous situations won't exactly result in permanent death (unless its scripted) so you don't get quite the same feel as you do in RL.