164 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

Never seen the Deathblow animation for DW on Broodmother. May have to redo that fight to see it.



Waiting for my new Dragon Scale armor so I went off and started the Denerium side quests. Pummeled poor Gaxkang. Killed all the back alley rogues. No potions for either. On Gaxkang no one even got under 75% health. He got off one Misdirection Hex on Sten, which was promptly cancelled. Wanted to post the stats of Gaxkang before I forgot.



Gaxkang

Attk: 67

Def: 80

Health: 2,140

AR: 27

Mana: 805

(Maybe Drain Mana would be useful? Nahhh)



Dropped him in under 25 seconds. Kind of confirms my earlier thought that the team can dish out a lot of damage pretty quickly. Full burst dmg is the way to go, rather then slogging it out auto attacking. Not sure what I will do on my next playthrough, getting kind of spoiled here.

[DWSmiley]

beancounter501 wrote...

Not sure what I will do on my next playthrough, getting kind of spoiled here.

3 archer rangers + Shale!

Modifié par DWSmiley, 11 juin 2010 - 02:34 .

[beancounter501]

^^ LOL, think I may pass on that one. Pretty sure my next one is going to be a Rogue Showdown! One Str Rogue (PC), One Dex Rogue (Zevran), One Cunning Rogue (Leliana). All will be specced to Dual Weld. Just trying to to figure out what class/spec should go in the last spot. Maybe, a warrior archer or a warrior S&S.

[soteria]

Dog, human noble PC.   I like to do a max str build... he gets a little fragile at high levels, but I think that's more a lack of armor than lack of defense.  His Overwhelm will kill most white enemies in seconds, yellow enemies by the time it runs its course, and, with the help of the whole group, even bosses won't recover from it.  Dread howl is great, too--really long range for an aoe stun.  You might want to give him a little willpower so he can overwhelm + dread howl sooner, since he can't ever wear gear to help on that front.

Modifié par soteria, 11 juin 2010 - 05:15 .

[DWSmiley]

I just finished a HN + dog and that descibes it exactly: the ultimate glass cannon, deadly but fragile and often in the thick of the fight. I set the first tactic to health < 50% --> most powerful health poultice and he still got a fair number of injuries. A "tactic" I found handy was to have dog run away from the fight (if no enemy mage) while everyone did a few rounds of ranged attacks. It's a lot simpler than putting everyone on manual control and I got pretty good at judging how far to send him so he'd be back just as the beasties got close. The only time that backfired was in Lothering, when I sent him around the hill and he came back chased by an archer and two mabari from another group of bandits! I was rather proud of surviving that faux pas.

p.s.  Of course, you then have to offer Dog as your champion to duel Loghain at the the Landsmeet. 

Modifié par DWSmiley, 11 juin 2010 - 06:58 .

[soteria]

Yeah, taking dog along is worth it just for that. I prefer to call him a porcelain self-propelled howitzer, but yep.

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

^^ LOL, think I may pass on that one. Pretty sure my next one is going to be a Rogue Showdown! One Str Rogue (PC), One Dex Rogue (Zevran), One Cunning Rogue (Leliana). All will be specced to Dual Weld. Just trying to to figure out what class/spec should go in the last spot. Maybe, a warrior archer or a warrior S&S.

If you want Lel to actually hit anything, you'll want either...
1) Taunting Champion Warrior (if you want to flank) or...
2) Mage with heavy CC and Heroic Offense if flanking is too much hassle (IMO, it is). Probably want heal as well if you intend to make much use of Tainted Blade, though this isn't really a great talent for a STR build.

Quick Tip: If using patch prior to 1.03, Mark of Death stacks with itself.

Modifié par Random70, 11 juin 2010 - 09:16 .

[beancounter501]

Ehh, I do not know about Dog. I really want someone that can add something to the party. In this playthrough I could not wait to drop dog for something else. He sucks. Needs to be like Fallout 3 where he was a free companion. Dog is not a glass cannon - more like a shinny, glass turd.



So while I really apperciate your advice, and I am sure you did not want me to flail about with a wimp party member - I am going to have to pass on dog.



@ Random70 - that is half the point. I want to document if a cunning Rogue is worth a crap. If he is always in last place then it is a solid case that DPS charts do not mean anything. (WHich I personally believe) Almost every person on the boards has read the whole Dual Weld DPS charts for a Rogue. But the most important variable in the whole mess - if your attack actually connects is missing.





Look at my current game - who would have thought the third string warrior when it came to gear (Sten) was able to stay very close to a DW Warrior (Alistar) who had MUCH better gear? There are a TON of factors involved. Least of which is your theortical max DPS.

[beancounter501]

Finally - a semi-challenging Area! The Deserted Building in Denerium. After manhandling Gaxkang I really did not think this zone would be much of a problem. So I was a little careless. This zone is built to be a melee toon's worst nightmare. Archers behind barricades, Grease traps for a slow. Groups of mages. Don't get me wrong, we were never in danger of a party wipe. But a few potions were needed to clear it out.



The archers were a constant source of irration with Scatter Shot since it stunned both Alistar and Oghren. The mages were also a thorn - I could easily take out one mage with Smite, but two or even three mages was a problem. It meant splitting the group up and getting dog piled while you tried to kill a mage. Still, it was nice to actually use all that CC I had been building like War Cry and Freighting Appearance. I really like Freightning Appearance. It has to be one of the top 10 warrior feats.



So here are a few stats from that zone:



Merc - Quarni Heavy

Attk: 104

Def: 53

Health: 352

AR: 16



Melee Rogue

Attk: 92

Def: 91

Health: 213

AR: 13

[Arttis]

how about all the warriors mixing weapons?

get pinning shot

get pummel and mighty blow

get riposte and DW sweep

Get shield bash;shield pummel; and overpower

just a ton of crowd control.

Might be annoying switching weapons constantly

[Relshar]

Shield tanker with Champion and Beserker

DW with Beserker and Templar

Twohander with Beserker and Reaver

Twohander with Reaver.



Reaver will give you a fear AOE and Templar smite ability and dispell. Champion with the KD AOE.

[Phaelducan]

Hmm, never actually thought about mixing Warrior trees to that extent (done a DW/Archer rogue, but no warriors). That could be a really fun Warrior actually...



Spec two points into 2H for indomitable, rush into melee, and switch to DW for your actives. I can't remember if the activation on momentum is instant... that might be a snag, but at the least you could reliably close to melee most of the time. Would work for S/S as well, I suppose. Since the biggest knock on DPS for any melee is falling down, it could be a nice solution.

[DWSmiley]

beancounter501 wrote...

I want to document if a cunning Rogue is worth a crap. If he is always in last place then it is a solid case that DPS charts do not mean anything. (WHich I personally believe) Almost every person on the boards has read the whole Dual Weld DPS charts for a Rogue. But the most important variable in the whole mess - if your attack actually connects is missing.

There is pretty wide agreement on that already, n'est-ce pas?  A cunning rogue is all about synergy - high damage and strong songs but needs help from the rest of the party to be able hit anything.  A cunning duelist/bard with some +attack gear could be independently strong but getting there takes a while.

So you really like Frightening Appearance, eh?  I've never tried reaver because that looks like the only valuable talent.  Devour could be nice but my PC often lags too much in converting dead beasties to corpses and the other two talents seem redundant to Blood Thirst - or too risky to use in addition to BT.

[beancounter501]

Freightning Appearance is very nice. A virtually unresistable horror type attack. Lasts a long time and has a quick cooldown. Plus it is cheap. But the rest of the Reaver line is kind of weak. Actually really weak, ao if you do go reaver just take the first two. The last two are a waste of talent points. You would be far better off spending those talents towards Deathblow or Perfect Striking.



On weapon mixing - sounds good, but it does not work out that well. Almost every melee class has one critical sustain to try and keep up. Mixing weapon types mean you drop the sustain and have to wait for the cooldown. Or it means a couple of key talents you are delaying until latter on for the occasional shield bash are such.

[beancounter501]

OK, while the main purpose of this thread was to play around with some melee warriors, I have playing around with dropping Alistar and adding a Dex Duelist Rogue to the party. Then replaying a few saved encounters.



First, I can say Freightning Appearance works really well with a Rogue - it is a death sentence to any White or Yellow critter. You still have to flank them since it does not count as a Stun in order to backstab. But enjoy 10 seconds of free backstabs. And the cooldown is 20 seconds.



I was having Sten hit some warrior or a Yellow mob with Freighting Appearance and then switch targets to go kill something else. Then the Rogue would just backstab away. Good times.



Speaking of some fun synergy with a Rogue, sneaking in behind a mage and then hitting the mage with Holy Smite allows a lot of free backstabs on the mages - and it will save your Rogue Dirty Fighting/Riposte. Plus all the badies will ignore the Rogue and charge your warriors.



And of course once they reach your two hand warrior a nice 2 Hand Sweep knocks them all down - just in time for your Rogue to come up from behind and start backstabbing the guy who was knocked down. Same works for War Cry and even Pommel Strike.



Actually, a really nice fit in a three warrior party. Or maybe a two Rogue/two 2 hand party. Hmm

[DWSmiley]

Seems like you may never cast another spell! 

[beancounter501]

Ehh, what is magic? I seem to have forgot!



To quote one of my favorite Bioware characters - "Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads - swords for everyone!"



Go play Baldurs Gate while waiting for DA2 if you do not know that line!

[beancounter501]

Just wiped out ole Howe's estate.  That was a fun zone.  No disguises, just straight on assault.  The Champion spec really shined in this zone since there was mass amounts of melee toons.  It was almost funny sometimes, we would start with a 2 Hand Sweep from the main PC, and then Sten would do a 2 Hand Sweep and then Oghren would come up and blast War Cry.  Then Sten would blast a War Cry followed up by the main using War Cry.  (We have three champs with Superiority in the party!)  It was great to see all those guys go flying.

Howe himself was a pushover.  Once we bagged the two mages he dropped in short order.

We killed off Ser Cauthorn on the first try.  Took a couple of potions.  Probably should have used some Swift and Rock Salves.  Ogren and the Main PC took on the center group that included the Mage and Ser Cauthorn, Sten attacked the lower group of Archers and Allistar attacked the top group.

Ser Cauthorn seemed really vulnerable to War Cry.  She would resisit the Pommel Strikes and Bashes, but she almost always got knocked down from War Cry.  She never turned on Indomitable or Perfect Striking.  Landed a Freighting Appearance on her, but the duration was sooo short. 

Stat wise for the party was really tight.  Every warrior did between 9K and 11K points of dmg.  No real noticable difference.

So, for the baddies stats

Ser Cauthorn
Attk: 122 (Yikes)
Def: 106
Armor: 21
Health: 3,415

Ser Cauthorn Archer
Attk: 92.5
Def: 77
Armor: 21
Health: 336

Howe
Attk: 104
Def: 100
Armor: 16
Health: 1,220

Regular Melee Guard
Attk: 94.5
Def: 80
Armor: 15
Health: 351

Most guys seemed to have the above stats, with a few points difference here and there.

[DWSmiley]

So you weren't bothered by scattershot spam?  I'm guessing you have the faster archery mod turned off. 

BTW - I'm playing a 2H pc right now, usually with Leliana, Zev and Morrigan.  With the two rogues stealthed every beastie runs straight to me so I've gotten to unload some epic sweeps.  Two more levels and I'll have Superiority for more fun!  Though I found an annoying glitch with the game - it will not process two characters with Self: Any--> Stealth - so after every fight I have to check which rogue has not re-stealthed and do it manually.

[beancounter501]

Suprisingly, Scattershot was not that much of an issue. Mainly because half the party was immune to the Stun effect through Indomitable and we hit the Archers with a TON of knockdown attacks - 2 Hand Sweep & War Cry being the main. We also tossed out Freightning Appearance, Pommel Strike, Riposte, Punisher, Shield Bash and Shield Pummel. But the main was War Cry. I found by positioning a warrior between Cauthorn and the Archers allowed you to hit 7 or 8 guys with a single War Cry. Totally interrupting the Scattershot chaining. Cauthorn was the only thing in that fight that was difficult. She hits hard and her decent attack score means a lot of those attacks land. However, she dropped really fast once everyone else was dead and we could concentrate on her. I mainly had Ogren attack her since he had the best defense and armor.

And yes, when you lead in with a 2 Hand Warrior you can get some amazing 2 Hand Sweeps. Just send your Rogues around to start backstabing while all the badies are sitting on their butt. They will usually just focus on the Warrior until it is too late.

Modifié par beancounter501, 23 juin 2010 - 02:59 .

[soteria]

Hah! I *knew* those guys had more health. Glad to hear you're finding the rogue useful... I was starting to think we couldn't be friends anymore. Well, we still have the issue of the slur you made against Dog, but I'll overlook that--for now.

[beancounter501]

^^ - I like Rogues now that I have been testing them out a little. Still, no Rogues in the main party - just four warriors. But I am rethinking my no mage policy for my next playthrough. For Dog, ehh he needs to be like Dogmeat from Fallout3. A free party member. I think I saw a mod like that, but I really do not like to mod my game too much. Not fun when the PC users are one game and all the X-BOS/PS3 have the std.



I am pretty sure my next playthrough will be the last for DA. So I want to have all three classes in the group. Fallout: Las Vegas is coming out latter this year so time to move on.



Well, I have to beat that quick so I can be back here for DA2!

[Last Darkness]

Gonna try something along these lines next, I was gonna try the 4 warrior party with my elven duel wield warrior warden but then I realised I hate Alistair so im gonna trade him out for Dog since hes technicaly a warrior lol. Warden, Sten, Ohgren, Dog. Probably set dog to overwhelm mages.

[beancounter501]

At long last we finally beat the game! The last battle with the Archdemon was really easy. Strange. However, we had a awesome fight going into the Palace. It is where you face a huge battle as soon you enter the area, with Archers behind barcades, a Dragonling and a ton of Darkspawn. The main got dropped by an overwhelm and Alistar was killed by a Curse of Mortality & Stinging Swarm combo. That left Oghren and Sten to duke it out with the Horde. They fought back to back and it was a lot of fun.



Anyways, one thing is for sure - warriors are not weak at all. Very capable class. All four characters were very offensive and performed very well.



And if anyone is curious here are the stats for the Archdemon



Health: 4,180

Armor: 35

Attack: 83

Defense: 69



Now, I just need to decide what the next playthrough will be.

[T0rin3]

3 rogue archers.

Modifié par T0rin3, 08 juillet 2010 - 07:18 .