103 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

Dwarf Noble. He is the only one out of all the origins that has four essential skills to being a warden already breed in him/her.



1) Is a skilled commander. Wardens ARE expected to lead armies, or at the very least companies, during a Blight against darkspawn.



2) Is a very skilled fighter, spending most of his youth training to fight, and then his entire adult actually fighting darkspawn on a common basis



3) Can more easily navigate the deep roads due to the Stone Sense.



4) Knows how to handle politics. ( which is very important when you are trying to persuade countries to fight for your cause )



The Human Noble definitely is good at points 1 and 4, but does not have the dwarf's noble prowess in battle against the darkspawn ( as it goes for all the other origins ). While a mage definitely has great power he/she doesn't have the battle experience ( having spent most of their life in the tower )



DC is just as good as the dwarf noble at point 3, but fails behind at all the other points. The City Elf and Dalish elves, while tough fighters, fall behind on every point against the DN.

[Sarah1281]

4) Knows how to handle politics. ( which is very important when you are trying to persuade countries to fight for your cause )

Depending on how you play them. Lots of people seem to have a politically incompetent DN that just wants to go kill things.

[LadyDamodred]

1) Well, the DN is only going on on their first command, so...not sure how they're already a skilled commander.



2) Are you? You can show you know how to fight in the proving, but there is nothing to say you've actually been out in the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn. (Have I missed something?)



3) Deep Roads are not very important for being a GW. Blights are fought on the surface, so most of the focus is there. Dwarves are at a disadvantage.



4) Since they get exiled, they fail it at dwarven politics.



Like I said, you can make every case for and against every origin. There is no definitive one that is better than the others. *is going to keep making this point, please, when you start throwing rocks, make them small*

[Sarah1281]

3) Deep Roads are not very important for being a GW. Blights are fought on the surface, so most of the focus is there. Dwarves are at a disadvantage.

The Deep Roads are important for the easy access to darkspawn altough I think you're right about our lack of knowlege as to how often the DN's been down there.

4) Since they get exiled, they fail it at dwarven politics.

All we really know is that Bhelen's better at it then they are and he had massive years-long Xanatos Gambit going.

[LadyDamodred]

Well, because of the taint, all a GW has to do is go a little out into the Deep Roads and wait for the darkspawn to find them. Makes navigation not really necessary.



And, yes, Bhelen is better than you. You get set up or framed, and are then given a death sentence. That's failing it in my book. My DN failed it, badly. She kicked herself about, but she admitted she failed.

[Zachriel]

*whistles as she thinks of the way she and Alistair tear through mages*

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there

Fair points, if we were talking about which origin would win in a fight. 

When it comes to which origin would be the most effective against the darkspawn, I have to go with mage as well.  A single mage can incapacitate or destroy large numbers of darkspawn far more effectively than anyone else.  

Modifié par Zachriel, 12 avril 2010 - 04:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I might aim at the dwarven nobility, but I am not sure I would recruit a noble from the ruling family, who is also a canditate for the throne. The DN can do more good as King of Orzammar. Unless of course, they get Bhelened.

In addition, the dwarven political ****storm can become a nuissance. Nobles plan behind each other's backs even in blights (one house basically refused to commit its forces to the war). So unless I create an elaborate plot where many DNs lose everything and are forced to join me (which is not beyond me to be honest), I would rather not try the DNs.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 avril 2010 - 04:22 .

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I might aim at the dwarven nobility, but I am not sure I would recruit a noble from the ruling family, who is also a canditate for the throne. The DN can do more good as King of Orzammar. Unless of course, they get Bhelened.

In addition, the dwarven political ****storm can become a nuissance. Nobles plan behind each other's backs even in blights (one house basically refused to commit its forces to the war). So unless I create an elaborate plot where many DNs lose everything and are forced to join me (which is not beyond me to be honest), I would rather not try the DNs.

You could just hang around for awhile and wait until people lost everything playing politics before offering them a way out. Usually they went to the Legion of the Dead but being a GW is a bit more long-term.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I might aim at the dwarven nobility, but I am not sure I would recruit a noble from the ruling family, who is also a canditate for the throne. The DN can do more good as King of Orzammar. Unless of course, they get Bhelened.

In addition, the dwarven political ****storm can become a nuissance. Nobles plan behind each other's backs even in blights (one house basically refused to commit its forces to the war). So unless I create an elaborate plot where many DNs lose everything and are forced to join me (which is not beyond me to be honest), I would rather not try the DNs.

You could just hang around for awhile and wait until people lost everything playing politics before offering them a way out. Usually they went to the Legion of the Dead but being a GW is a bit more long-term.

But that won't make me feel like a badass. Unacceptable.

[mellifera]

I'd pick mage as well, even though I have a personal preference for rogues/archers. Not only because a mage can do more damage at a farther range to a larger group of enemies but also because it never hurts to have a bit more options and support in a situation where we'd have a greater number of warriors/rogues.

[Addai]

Zachriel wrote...

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there

Fair points, if we were talking about which origin would win in a fight. 

When it comes to which origin would be the most effective against the darkspawn, I have to go with mage as well.  A single mage can incapacitate or destroy large numbers of darkspawn far more effectively than anyone else.  

Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

[Sesshomaru47]

Either dwarf commoner or the city elf, they both have no reason to stay where they are and every reason leave no strings attached. Everyone else is bound to be unhinged from being torn away from their environments and/or their desire for revenge. The Dalish is a walking time bomb, the Cousland could snap at any time and the Dwarf noble may completely go nuts when you get to Orzamaar.

[Xetirox]

Addai67 wrote...
Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

There's nothing stopping a mage from wearing armor in-game (let alone in-lore), it's just that armor has strength requirements to wear, which you really aren't going to be putting any points into for a mage.

Anyway, I would go for the Mage. Politics make getting them the most difficult (you have to negotiate with both the Circle AND the Templars, and by extension, the Chantry), but also the most rewarding. Having another soldier or scout is nice, but they're comparatively a dime a dozen. Mages are much more rare and a true force to be reckoned with. Barring that, then I'd go for either the City Elf or the Dwarven Commoner. They'd be much easier to convince to join, and if worse came to worse, conscripting them isn't going to step on anyone's toes. Not anyone who matters, anyway.

Wouldn't bother with either of the nobles. They're the only ones with real education, and their clout could be advantageous, but it's too much trouble to get what I know is just another warrior or rogue.

Modifié par Xetirox, 12 avril 2010 - 06:52 .

[Addai]

Xetirox wrote...

There's nothing stopping a mage from wearing armor in-game (let alone in-lore), it's just that armor has strength requirements to wear, which you really aren't going to be putting any points into for a mage.

I would think that if you're up and walking around, you have the strength to wear leather armor.

[Sesshomaru47]

Addai67 wrote...

Zachriel wrote...

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there

Fair points, if we were talking about which origin would win in a fight. 

When it comes to which origin would be the most effective against the darkspawn, I have to go with mage as well.  A single mage can incapacitate or destroy large numbers of darkspawn far more effectively than anyone else.  

Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

Take the Arcane Warrior as a skill thing and then you can load up on as much armour as you want.

[Gill Kaiser]

Addai67 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Obviously Mage. One Mage is worth multiple rogues or warriors, no matter what their backgrounds.

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there.  When playing a mage PC myself, it's always the damn archers I hate the most (*yes, Genlock Forge Master, I'm talking to you, you rat bastard!*)

This is a discussion about who is better as the main character, though. Main character mages are far more powerful than NPC mages because if NPC mages had access to even half the spells a PC mage gets, the game would be horrendous. Crowd control everyone and kill them at the same time with Blood Wound. Use Glyph of Warding to make all their attacks miss, and Glyph of Repulsion to keep everyone away from you. If anyone gets close or starts to attack, use Cone of Cold. Shatter a few of them.

I'm sorry, but no PC warrior or rogue could defeat a fully-levelled PC mage, unless they had extremely high spell resistance gear which would be game-breaking either way.

[Fat_Slob]

Xetirox wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

There's nothing stopping a mage from wearing armor in-game (let alone in-lore), it's just that armor has strength requirements to wear, which you really aren't going to be putting any points into for a mage.

Anyway, I would go for the Mage. Politics make getting them the most difficult (you have to negotiate with both the Circle AND the Templars, and by extension, the Chantry), but also the most rewarding. Having another soldier or scout is nice, but they're comparatively a dime a dozen. Mages are much more rare and a true force to be reckoned with. Barring that, then I'd go for either the City Elf or the Dwarven Commoner. They'd be much easier to convince to join, and if worse came to worse, conscripting them isn't going to step on anyone's toes. Not anyone who matters, anyway.

Wouldn't bother with either of the nobles. They're the only ones with real education, and their clout could be advantageous, but it's too much trouble to get what I know is just another warrior or rogue.

Lets take the RPGness out of this and think more realistically. As if the DA world was real life. You don't have stats and talent points and all that stuff in real life.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

If i were duncan i would go recruit mages help them escape there lives and plus you can have as many melee wardens but mages invaluable and way more useful spirit healing/Shapeshifters/Arcane warriors/Blood mages so mage if i was him.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

Zachriel wrote...

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there

Fair points, if we were talking about which origin would win in a fight. 

When it comes to which origin would be the most effective against the darkspawn, I have to go with mage as well.  A single mage can incapacitate or destroy large numbers of darkspawn far more effectively than anyone else.  

Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

They can wear any armor they want if they have the strength to carry it on their backs.  And the Arcane warrior spec allows them to swap strength for Magic...so they can wear platemail if they have the score for it.  Its just most ingame robes are more geared to buffing the stats they may want raised while armor isn't. Lots of nice mods for that though.  I hvae a set of Arcane warrior stuff I got off the site here thats really really nice and looks like witch's robes (Hot on both men and women)>  Anders looks pretty damn sexy in it.

[LadyDamodred]

The discussion is actually not about is more powerful as the main character. Or at least that's not how it started out. It's about what Origin Duncan would recruit from. Big difference.

And I will respectfully disagree that no PC warrior or rogue could defeat a PC mage. There are so many variables involved. If you know what you're doing, and have the right build, you can take out anything on any character. *shrugs*

@sylvanaerie:  Do you not sleep, either?  XD

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 12 avril 2010 - 01:03 .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I still say mages are best no rogues or warriors can call in flame twisters that consume the battlefeild or dawn the same armor as a warrior or heal your whole group at once. Plus mages are well educated and intelligent so ill stick by that mages would be the best choice.

You can hire a sword anyday but well trained mages are like gold to the Warden ranks.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

The discussion is actually not about is more powerful as the main character. Or at least that's not how it started out. It's about what Origin Duncan would recruit from. Big difference.

And I will respectfully disagree that no PC warrior or rogue could defeat a PC mage. There are so many variables involved. If you know what you're doing, and have the right build, you can take out anything on any character. *shrugs*

@sylvanaerie:  Do you not sleep, either?  XD

Actually I am usually an insomniac but I just woke up after a 6 hour sleep and feeling QUITE frisky and fun this morning for that long rest! 

[Reaverwind]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The problem with mages are that we don't know if the 'only one mage warden at a time' is actually enforced 

There is no such rule. That there is only one mage warden at a time is nonsense spouted by NON-warden, in dialogue removed from the the original game.

[LadyDamodred]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

I still say mages are best no rogues or warriors can call in flame twisters that consume the battlefeild or dawn the same armor as a warrior or heal your whole group at once. Plus mages are well educated and intelligent so ill stick by that mages would be the best choice.
You can hire a sword anyday but well trained mages are like gold to the Warden ranks.

And I can say warriors are best are best and spout off a whole list of reasons why.  And I'll say that a warrior is also well-educated and intelligent, especially in things like actual battle/fighting/commanding troops.  *shrugs*

In the words of Sten, enough.  There is not point to this.

@sylvan:  Yeah, I got about 5 hours, which is a bit low for me, but I feel good, so I'm up.  No work today.  \\o/

[erilben]

Reaverwind wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

The problem with mages are that we don't know if the 'only one mage warden at a time' is actually enforced 

There is no such rule. That there is only one mage warden at a time is nonsense spouted by NON-warden, in dialogue removed from the the original game.

I got this on the 360 version, so it's not removed. An NPC mage in the tower in the mage origin says that he regrets not taking the chance to be a Grey Warden. He says the Wardens only ever have one mage, and that he could have been the one. But he told them he didn't want to be a Warden, so they took some other mage.

Modifié par erilben, 12 avril 2010 - 01:45 .