103 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyDamodred]

It's not removed in the PC version, either. He does say that, but it made absolutely no sense to me. An order of warriors dedicated to eradicating hideous monsters before they destroy the world, and out of the thousands of them, they only have 1 mage for the entire continent? Uhhh, no.

[Raiil]

A warrior is as skilled as a mage or a rogue, that much is quite obvious. Each discipline brings something to the board that others can't. A rogue can melt in the shadows, a warrior has the physical strength to overpower most, if not all enemies, and a mage has the great crowd control possibilities. On the flipside, most warriors have little to no magical resistance, rogues must rely on evasion to protect themselves, and mages have to be extremely careful about not blowing up their own comrades. There is balance.





When it comes to 'price', a mage is more 'precious' (if we're speaking market terms) simply because they're rare. Any person with all four limbs in working order can learn rogue or warrior talents, all things being equal, but magus abilities are distinct to a few. Additionally, being a warrior does not come with the ability to command troops. It focuses on martial skills; the ability to lead is something else entirely and has little to do with one's ability to wield a weapon. The same applies to being a noble; while our two noble origins that we can play obviously have the ability to lead, effectively, being a noble does not make you an effective leader of men simply by virtue of your upbringing. It certainly gives you one hell of an edge, but leadership is not inherent or given simply because you've been taught to do so. If Vaughan had been recruited, I would have had Shale ordering us before I'd let him even think about it. And this is a man who was born to lead, versus a Cousland who is second in line and therefore unlikely to.

[LadyDamodred]

*nods* I will not argue how important mages are per pound, as it were. When used correctly, they are for teh win. My argument is when people say that beyond any and all question that *sic* is better than everything else. It's purely opinion and engenders bad blood.

It might be presumptuious of me, but I think I'd like to see this thread wander over to why Duncan chose YOU, or your Origin for some cases, to come and recruit from. What is it about you and where you come from that made him decide THAT was where he could find what he needed?  Throw in all of your RP to show us why you were the best Ferelden had to offer.  

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 12 avril 2010 - 01:58 .

[Raiil]

* shrugs * We were talking about raw recruitment, though, without Duncan being able to know what we would be capable of in the future. In my preferred playthrough, I'm a mage, and the only mage that gets any play in the entire game. I prefer bowling over my enemies with my mage and three warriors, or my mage, two warriors and a rogue. I'm not arguing from personal preference, all kidding aside. It's opinion, but also speculation tossed in with some fact. A sword and board warrior has a 1x1 ratio with enemies: typically one warrior squares off with one enemy. A two handed warrior may generally be a 2x1 ratio, one warrior, two enemies. A mage can easily be a 10x1 ratio because their ability go nuclear continuously is pretty much unique (with a lot of love and respect for the Holy Smite nonwithstanding) to them. Warrior and rogue crowd control is limited, and I say this as the person who envies the Champion talent tree a lot and finds it quite useful.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mages definately offer the most raw potential. And it's clear in the Mage origin that Duncan is desperate to get a mage or two. He seems more desperate in the mage origin than in any other.

And mages are highly educated, they have the most expansive library (Duncan said so hismelf). What they lack however is experience and leadership skills (something the nobles have).

[mousestalker]

I interpreted the one mage at a time rule as only applying to Ferelden, as part of the conditions of allowing them back. That may be wrong, but that would make more sense than one mage for all of Thedas. The Tevinter Grey Wardens would likely not have any such silly rules, for example.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I agree its all oppion but when i think of it from a military stand point.



Rogues are your marksman sit in the back sniping the enemy or going in close using speed over strength.



Warriors are deffiently infantry the can take the hits and press the assault.



Mages are like your support Medics, They could be scouts if shapeshifter worked like that

there also good artillery.



All are needed in a party but from what i've gathered from this fourm most seem to agree that mages are the most valuable. But theres deffiently a ballance. But like i said hired swords and archers are a dime a dozen but a mage is gold in comparison.But its all oppion

[LadyDamodred]

Ok, so in the hopes of seeing things I'd like to know, I'll start. Why does Duncan come to Highever to try and recruit my HNF Lya? Note, lots of RP choices here, but that should be true of all origins.



She is a Cousland, a noble family known for being very dutiful and loyal. These are traits one looks for in a Grey Warden. She has been given training necessary to run a teyrnir, as well as having been trained as a warrior. So she knows about leading and commanding men and troops, in addition for knowing how to fight. She is educated and intelligent. Once he is in Highever, he might have learned that Bryce may favor her to take control of the teyrnir, which might make his job recruiting more difficult, but also showing how skilled and talented she really is.



Once he meets her, she has a great deal of respect for the order and expresses genuine interest in becoming a Grey Warden. Bryce shuts down the possibility of recruitment at that moment, but Duncan would probably know that he could convince Bryce at a later date to recruit her. Once Howe attacks, she proves her worth by remaining calm and collected, and getting her mother to safety. Once they find her father, she ackowledges her duty, though she wants to get revenge, and goes with Duncan willingly. Duncan has now just acquired the second highest noble in the land, young, charismatic, intelligent, capable, as a willing member of the order. She would be a valuable asset both on the battlefield and off.



Now, if you would indulge me, I'd love to hear why Duncan recruited you.

[TotalLamer]

No Dalish love in here huh? Ahhh well.

[Serissia]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that the same circumstances that actually happened in the game apply to this.  If so, I would have to say I would choose the human noble.

Duncan probably knew there was a good possibility that he might die at Ostagar.  Even if Loghain hadn't pulled out he was still fighting in the front line.  A human noble would make an excellent successor to Duncan.  The noble would already have a solid grasp of Ferelden politics; as much as the Wardens claim political neutrality it's obviously not so (this is proven in Awakening).  The human noble would be able to tactfully handle the delicate political situation of the Ferelden Wardens.

Additionally most of the people the Warden and his/her companions encounter are human and another human would encounter the least amount of initial prejudice.  Considering the dwarves already respect the Wardens as a whole the only obstacle a human noble would encounter is when dealing with the Dalish and city elves.  

A mage may win out in pure battle prowess but I think the human noble has considerable other quality to take into consideration.  Though I may be bias as I'm fond of playing rogues.

Modifié par Serissia, 12 avril 2010 - 02:47 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Now, if you would indulge me, I'd love to hear why Duncan recruited you.

Because it was the perfect opportunity. Here you have a nobleman who is known for his skills and intelligence, lose everything he loved (nothing holding him back now). And the only one who can save him is Duncan, who bargains with a dying father and a suicidal mother on what he would get to save their son.

Of course what he wants is the son. Basically it's "I am going to save your son, but I am going to subject him to a ritual that has 50% hance of killing him, and throw him against hordes of darkspawn and against an archdemon. If he survives, and the chances are very slim, he will have to go to the deeproads at the age of 50 to go die forgotten". 

For some reason, the PC can't beat the **** out of Duncan right there. But he liked how heartlessly badass Duncan was, so didn't mind that much.

[LadyDamodred]

TotalLamer wrote...

No Dalish love in here huh? Ahhh well.

So tell us!  Why does Duncan recruit your Dalish?

[SurelyForth]

Duncan recruited my HNF because she's hell on wheels and everyone knows it (the whole tramautic dead family/nothing to lose thing just racheted this up a bit). She's also whip-smart and a natural born leader. The downside is rampant smartassery, but Duncan has had some practice dealing with that.

[Daneres]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Mages definately offer the most raw potential. And it's clear in the Mage origin that Duncan is desperate to get a mage or two. He seems more desperate in the mage origin than in any other.
And mages are highly educated, they have the most expansive library (Duncan said so hismelf). What they lack however is experience and leadership skills (something the nobles have).

I agree. Definitely Mages. Like Duncan said, they can heal and they can call fire and lightning down upon the enemy. I mean, let's face it, how many of us would've gotten through those tougher battles without Wynne there to heal your character or Morrigan freezing an enemey to give you a few moments to recuperate. I made the mistake of playing a Mage in my second playthrough and I loved it so much that I have four others. lol My poor Rogues have been sitting on the back burner for a very long time. I'll get back to them eventually. What I would have really liked, though, would  have been an Apostate Mage Origin. I think it would be more interesting than having been locked in a tower your whole life until now.

[Raiil]

Well, I don't think Duncan came to the tower to recruit my PC specifically, although I think Irving may have nudged my name into the standing- partially because clearly I am a badass XD and to get me out of the tower. My Amell is not only a bit of a hell raiser, she's mouthy and let's face it, who wants to be stuck with a smartass 24/7 (with the potential exception of Alistair)?





My Amell chose to talk to Irving because the game mechanics wouldn't have let me talk to Gregoir- Amell's actually quite sympathetic to the Templars, even if she strongly dislikes the Chantry itself. I think Duncan saw that she had principles on top of her abilities. Topped with her apparent prowess (since she's Irving's reluctant star pupil) and her desire to get the hell out of Dodge and into the Wardens, it stands to reason that she'd be the most obvious choice. Plus, I like to think Duncan knew that my Amell and Alistair would probably get along swimmingly. Had the Wardens survived Loghain's betrayal, I have no doubts how long they'd stand up against Amell dragging Alistair along for massive prankings.

[Addai]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Zachriel wrote...

Well, I will say that I do hate fighting spellcasters.  But stealth plus an arrow of slaying and the mage never even knew my rogue was there

Fair points, if we were talking about which origin would win in a fight. 

When it comes to which origin would be the most effective against the darkspawn, I have to go with mage as well.  A single mage can incapacitate or destroy large numbers of darkspawn far more effectively than anyone else.  

Well, my point is that you can't win a fight if you're dead.  Mages are powerful, but also vulnerable.  Of course, I don't see why mages should have to run around in robes, let alone the stripper's outfits that some of these robes are.  Is there some sort of rule in the lore that says normal mages can't wear even light armor, and if so what is the justification?  I recall that Fiona from The Calling wore chainmail.

Take the Arcane Warrior as a skill thing and then you can load up on as much armour as you want.

Let me try this again, because I don't seem to be making myself clear.  Yes, I know you can take Arcane Warrior, and can put points into str attribute in order to equip armor.  It is not realistic, however, that a person would have so little bodily strength that they cannot even wear leather armor.  If they don't, they should probably be in bed , not running around fighting darkspawn.

But this is why my PC mages always take AW, because to me, a fighting spellcaster just doesn't run around in skimpy robes.

[LadyDamodred]

But, for AW, you use your Magic points instead of your str, so you don't have to do that. I believe the explantion is they channel their mana in order to give themselves the strength to wear heavy armor.

[Raiil]

Mages can wear the lowest tier of leather armour; occasionally on my mage playthroughs, I'll strip Daveth down and wear his armour instead of those robes for better protection early on.

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

But, for AW, you use your Magic points instead of your str, so you don't have to do that. I believe the explantion is they channel their mana in order to give themselves the strength to wear heavy armor.

I know.  What I am saying is that for any normal, healthy young person, they have enough bodily strength to wear light armor, or else they should be an invalid.  You shouldn't have to learn a special skill from a trapped spirit or go the GW Gold's Gym to do so.

All this to say, despite the fact that the PC mage is overpowered, they're just as vulnerable as any other mage and the game makes them more so.

I would still go with the dwarf, particularly the dwarf noble- an experienced darkspawn fighter who has led a warrior's life and has a warrior's code of ethics, at least in the case of the noble and warrior caste.

[LadyDamodred]

Ah, okay, I gotcha. Yeah, they should be able to wear at least leather.

[Addai]

Valentia X wrote...

Mages can wear the lowest tier of leather armour; occasionally on my mage playthroughs, I'll strip Daveth down and wear his armour instead of those robes for better protection early on.

Oh, I didn't realize this...  *slinks off into a corner*

(*also snickers about "stripping Daveth")

[Raiil]

Addai67 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Mages can wear the lowest tier of leather armour; occasionally on my mage playthroughs, I'll strip Daveth down and wear his armour instead of those robes for better protection early on.

Oh, I didn't realize this...  *slinks off into a corner*

(*also snickers about "stripping Daveth")

Hey, if he's going to be watching my ~*back*~, I should be able to enjoy his view too.

[Sarah1281]

It's not removed in the PC version, either. He does say that, but it made absolutely no sense to me. An order of warriors dedicated to eradicating hideous monsters before they destroy the world, and out of the thousands of them, they only have 1 mage for the entire continent? Uhhh, no.

I actually think that's just all the Chantry will let the Wardens have voluntarily so unless he wants to start conscripting (which is quite unnecessary when there's no Blight and so he tends to avoid doing it) and ****** off the Chantry, he only gets one.

Now, if you would indulge me, I'd love to hear why Duncan recruited you.

Why did Duncan recruit my DN? Well, he came to Orzammar to check out the Deep Roads to confirm if there was a Blight or not. Once he was further convinced that there was, he decided to try to recruit an experienced warrior who had fought darkspawn before. A Proving was held to try and find the recruit and the DC won it, impressing Duncan greatly. Due to bad timing, Duncan wasn't there after the DC and Leske were apprehended after killing Beraht and so Duncan was planning on leaving empty-handed. On his way out, the DN runs up to him and explains that she was just exiled. She had expressed interest in the Wardens the day before or so at her feast but hadn't been willing to give up Orzammar and King Endrin would never have allowed it.

Since she now has nowhere else to go and, reputation aside, has proven herself by single-handedly slaughtering her way to them, Duncan asks if she's still interested in being a Warden. The DN knows it's either that or becoming a smith, merchant, or thug. She can't reasonably learn enough about smithing in order to use it to survive anytime soon, she could concievably be a merchant but she would have no idea what to do and it sounds really boring, and if she's going to fight anyway why not something more honorable? Marrying into a smith/merchant family is always an option but if she were willingto just settle down and get married she wouldn't be in the position she was in in the first place. She accepts the offer and Duncan doesn't even have to threaten to conscript her or leave her down there.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 13 avril 2010 - 01:53 .

[Spartansfan8888]

LadyDamodred wrote...

TotalLamer wrote...

No Dalish love in here huh? Ahhh well.

So tell us!  Why does Duncan recruit your Dalish?

My newest Dalish, Sammael Mahariel is an archery rogue ranger.  Duncan came to the Brecilian Forest to investigate a strange old ruin.  While investigating the ruin and the surrounding area, he found Sammael incoherent outside the ruin, but also noticed many dead foes with skillfully placed arrows in their vital areas.  Duncan brought Sammael back to the camp and while conversing with the Keeper learned of his prowess not only as a marksman, but also as a stealthy hunter with potential and skill in trapping and knowledge of animals.  After returning to the ruin, he was surprised to see Sammael strong and able to slay so many Darkspawn after being tainted.  Knowing more skilled marksmen were needed for the wardens, along with Sammael's unique set of rogue skills and innate resistance to the darkspawn taint, Duncan felt confident in giving the joining to Sammael to cure his sickness and gain a valuable ally for the wardens. 

[LadyDamodred]

I find stuff like this very interesting.