289 réponses à ce sujet

[kaimanaMM]

And once again people convieniently overlook that Thane is a love interest. 

Why does he get treated differently, to give those of us who romanced him a more emotionally engaging experience?  Why should someone else's gameplay choice to romance Garrus or Miranda or Tali or Jacob trump my choice to romance Thane?  What makes them so special they can have their LI (possibly) in ME3, but my LI is either dead or a brief cameo?  We know why the ME1 LIs were sidedlined in ME2, we don't have to like it but it makes sense with the story when you think in terms of the entire trilogy.

Regardless, I do not want to recruit anymore people for ME3.  Shepard has the best of the best, I don't want to recruit the Citadel Janitor

No new squadmates.

No replacements.

You get people killed in the suicide mission you L2DealWithTheConsequences.

[Collider]

I agree completely kaimama. Thane should survive to ME3 and get equal treatment, no one's LI should die horribly just to be macabre.

[DaVanguard]

arent all LIs in ME3... that means ME3 takes place less than a year after ME2

[Azint]

Thank you kaminaMM, I've been saying something similar for the past week.

[MarchWaltz]

I highly doubt that the ME2 crew will be squad mates in ME3. Mainly because all of them can die. So, they could (and should) make cameos, but since all of them have the potential of dying, that nullifies them from being a squad mate because in mass effect you can interact with squad mates, from conversations to loyalty quests.



That would be a lot of god damn work for bioware, especially for people who are importing a file where people only 3 people died, 2 people died, et cetera.



I'm hoping they do a Dragon age type thing; at the final battle, you will see all of your team mates out, including the ones from ME1, fighting along them (but not telling them to use a specific ability, like the "Final Onslaught" chapter in DA).



So, new squad mates, and awesome cameos from old ones. This is what I think, anyway.

[Lemonwizard]

kaimanaMM wrote...

And once again people convieniently overlook that Thane is a love interest. 

Why does he get treated differently, to give those of us who romanced him a more emotionally engaging experience?  Why should someone else's gameplay choice to romance Garrus or Miranda or Tali or Jacob trump my choice to romance Thane?  What makes them so special they can have their LI (possibly) in ME3, but my LI is either dead or a brief cameo?  We know why the ME1 LIs were sidedlined in ME2, we don't have to like it but it makes sense with the story when you think in terms of the entire trilogy.

Regardless, I do not want to recruit anymore people for ME3.  Shepard has the best of the best, I don't want to recruit the Citadel Janitor

No new squadmates.

No replacements.

You get people killed in the suicide mission you L2DealWithTheConsequences.

Thane has no reason not to be in if ME3 takes place immediately after ME2. If it's a year later or something like that, they'd have to pull some strings to keep him in just because of the whole terminal illness thing (but, like.....does the future not have lung transplants? I always wondered this because his problem didn't seem like it'd be that hard to deal with).

Thane's the only character who has a really ironclad story based reason that could keep him out of the final installment (aside from possibly Samara if you're renegade, or obviously anybody who died on the suicide mission). I want them to keep him because I think he's a great character, but that's the reason everybody thinks Thane isn't so likely.



Regarding learning to deal with the consequences, I agree completely! Bioware keeps selling that your decisions are going to have a big effect on the sequel, and they get crap for exaggerating the significance of ME1 decisions on ME2. What would be better than to have real consequences if you got half your party killed in ME2?

[JeanLuc761]

MarchWaltz wrote...

I highly doubt that the ME2 crew will be squad mates in ME3. Mainly because all of them can die. So, they could (and should) make cameos, but since all of them have the potential of dying, that nullifies them from being a squad mate because in mass effect you can interact with squad mates, from conversations to loyalty quests.

That would be a lot of god damn work for bioware, especially for people who are importing a file where people only 3 people died, 2 people died, et cetera.

I'm hoping they do a Dragon age type thing; at the final battle, you will see all of your team mates out, including the ones from ME1, fighting along them (but not telling them to use a specific ability, like the "Final Onslaught" chapter in DA).

So, new squad mates, and awesome cameos from old ones. This is what I think, anyway.

The problem with this argument is and always has been as such:  By relegating these characters to cameos, especially cameos that do nothing more than to serve as "hey cool!", you're making the deaths meaningless.

I'm of the firm belief that if Bioware really wants to keep their games about choice, then there should be consequences for the death of a squadmate in ME2.  If not, then the drama of the suicide mission disappears and almost everything you did in ME2 is meaningless.  

For the record, an "awesome cameo" does not a worthwhile reward for surviving a suicide mission make and, while I often disagree with them, I think the ME1 fans who feel they got shafted would agree with me on this.

[Peppard]

Lemonwizard wrote...
 
Regardless, I do not want to recruit anymore people for ME3.  Shepard has the best of the best, I don't want to recruit the Citadel Janitor

No new squadmates.

No replacements.

You get people killed in the suicide mission you L2DealWithTheConsequences.

I'm going to play Devil's  Advocate for a bit.    (Mind you, I have no issue with there being consequences, even harsh ones.  I only lost Legion my first playthrough, and I went back to fix that AND losing the NPC crew even though I could have guessed there weren't going to be galaxy wide consequences to whether Mess Seargent Gardner was smoothied or not.  I just felt bad.  But that's just me, some people only feel things matter if there is a gameplay mechanic that is altered in someway.)

   Saying "l2deal" is just a silly argument, since it still doesn't address those who want new characters for the sake of discovery.  I disagree that  TIM told you to hire "best of the best".  He gave you dossiers on  the best of the "available for a suicide mission funded by Cerberus to look into a human colony problem" best.  You stumbled into Legion and Grunt.  They're all awesome characters sure, but best of the best?  There ought to be other Spectres out there. They can't all be jokes like Blasto, nuts like Saren, or Shepard.   This is a galaxy full of B.A.s only waiting to be invented.

I just want a great third act.  I hope that some of my favored characters can play a large role, but if there are storyline or game design reasons that there need to be new ones, I'm not going to categorically say no to that.  I'll keep an open mind.   Though I do think the writers should use some of their story flexiblity to  keep Thane going, like, why can't he wear an Enviro suit with arid atmosphere to eek out some more years?    So I want BW to be more creative than they have been in the past with how to handle returning characters.

[ExtremeOne]

I will just say this if ME 3 does not have most or all the squad from ME 2 in it and as Squad mates then the reapers are the worst of the worries because I will exterminate most if not all my ME 3 squad mates

[Zulu_DFA]

aynxalot wrote...
Building a whole new team in ME3 would be a huge waste of time.

 

It won't. It didn't in ME1, and it won't in ME3.

Plus, what then was the point of building up their loyalty?

To pass time shooting things between ME1 and ME3. And make some "Big Choices" in the process (Geth, Quarians, genophage). Also, "loyalty" was a gameplay mechanic: to make squadmates bulletproof on the "suicide mission".
 

ME is character driven,

 
No, it isn't. ME2 - yes, partially, since it's the middle part. And the team assembly is a part of its plot. Building the team specificly for the mission to Omega-4 relay. ME3 = new mission = new squadmates. Maybe some of them pilots for spacefighter combat. Just think of it: Joker as a squadmate!!!

Also, are the naysayers not registering the idea that getting a new squad would also invalidate the gravity of the suicide mission and undermine the consequences of losing teammates?

What's actually invalidating the gravity of the "suicide mission" is the possibility to bring everyone back alive. It's just not a "suicide mission" then. It's a picnic, and Collectors are wussies. Oh, and you are a tactical genius of galactic magnitude.

OK, I give up.

MORE CALIBRATIONS!!! AND ENGINE CLEANING!!!!!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2010 - 02:02 .

[kaimanaMM]

aynxalot wrote...

A post filled to the brim with awesome.

I love you.  And that's no Jacob line.

Peppard wrote...

A thoughtful post full of good stuff.

I see where you're coming from and I appreciate you playing Devil's Advocate.  My 'l2deal' was more aimed at a certain group of people rather than meant as a blanket statement.  I expect we'll see a few new squadmates in ME3 for the reasons you said, the fun and excitement of meeting new characters and discovering what abilities and story they bring to the table.  I won't turn them away.  But I also am not keen on giving up anyone on my current squad who happen to be loyal to Shep. 

Shep knows them, has trained with them, they're like a well-oiled machine.  Take a cog out and your machine goes up in smoke.  They may very well not be literally the best of the best, but as far as we know they are the only ones who've gone through the Omega 4 relay, took down the Collectors and either destroyed the Collector base (or brought it home to TIM) and lived to tell the story.  Beefy stuff to put on a resume.

You and I are in agreement.  I want a spectacular closing for ME3, one that will blow my socks off with all the people I fought hard to get there with.  To replace them, at the start of the final chapter, would utterly destroy the story and negate anything  that happened in ME2.

[-Skorpious-]

Shepard: "EDI, assemble the crew, we have a lot to talk about."

*few moments later*

Shepard: "Good job destroying the base everyone. Garrus, Miranda; the both of you led precise, tactical, and efficient teams when dealing with the Collectors, good job. Legion, what could we have done without you're incredible hacking skills? You surely saved our asses there. And what about you Jack? You're powerful biotic field kept us from being taken away from the swarms."



"You all did the galaxy proud today. You are truly the best of the best. Oh, and FYI I'm gonna go recruit a new team...yeah. I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"



*shocked silence ensues*

[Zulu_DFA]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

[kraidy1117]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Long as it's Bastila Shepard.

[-Skorpious-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

[Zulu_DFA]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

But it has to. We must start ME3 at Level 1 (+ slight bonuses for import). And what do you mean "lazy"?

[Collider]

I actually read otherwise, Zulu. Instead, I read that we are going to start at level 30.



Also..

ME2 is rendered useless if none of the squad mates return. The entire game was recruiting them, earning their loyalty, and then making sure they survive (and in turn, Shepard survives). The "suicide" part of the suicide mission means nothing if who lives does not have an effect on ME3.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

I actually read otherwise, Zulu. Instead, I read that we are going to start at level 30.

Also..
ME2 is rendered useless if none of the squad mates return. The entire game was recruiting them, earning their loyalty, and then making sure they survive (and in turn, Shepard survives). The "suicide" part of the suicide mission means nothing if who lives does not have an effect on ME3.

Casey: Hey Drew, do you know how we can ****** off the fans?
Drew: You mean Walters pissing off the Liara fans was not good?
Walters: Maybe I will ****** of the Tali fans next....
Casey: Nah I say we just give the players new squadmates and everyone else gets a crappy cameo.
Drew: That is the best idea ever!
Waleters: Can I still ****** of the Tali fans?

[Zulu_DFA]

Collider wrote...

I actually read otherwise, Zulu. Instead, I read that we are going to start at level 30.

Also..
ME2 is rendered useless if none of the squad mates return. The entire game was recruiting them, earning their loyalty, and then making sure they survive (and in turn, Shepard survives). The "suicide" part of the suicide mission means nothing if who lives does not have an effect on ME3.

I never heard of a game where you start at level 30. And what about the newbies anyway?

Also ME2 can't be rendered useless, since we took out the Collectors, which was the sole point of assembling the ME2 team.

The "suicide" part meant actually nothing, since everyone could be saved. I expected at least three mandatory Virmire style fatalities, and then a hard fight to keep it to that minimum. Alas, it turned out to be all about the fancy kindergarten medal. So there is only one way BioWare can live up to their "suicide mission" blabber: assume that default Sheploo lost at least half the team there.

But I give up again...

MORE CALIBRATIONS AND ENGINE MAINTENANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-Skorpious-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

But it has to. We must start ME3 at Level 1 (+ slight bonuses for import). And what do you mean "lazy"?

I didn't intend to start at level 30 (god, I would hate that) but that doesn't Shepard needs to get obliterated in order to start a game with a level reset.

look at ME2 - Shepard died, was reborn, and the only comments he received in game about the effects of the procedure was a short quiz by Miranda and a quick message by Chackwas explaining his "scars". Besides those minor issues, Shepard was never told that he needed to "relearn combat"; Jacob even praises Shepard for his skills before leaving the station. 

Is it so hard to conceive that a simple level reset for the sake of balance is all that it takes? No fancy explanations or a Lazarus Project V2 is needed to explain a relatively minor gameplay mechanic.

Edit - forgot to back up my statement about Bioware being lazy. I only meant that having Shepard die, lose the Normandy, and force the crew to separate because of a disaster, would be to start the game off exactly as ME2 did; essentially copying ME2's intro. ME3 deserves to have a unique opening - not a rehashed scenario to explain a reset to level 1.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 13 avril 2010 - 03:41 .

[Zulu_DFA]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

But it has to. We must start ME3 at Level 1 (+ slight bonuses for import). And what do you mean "lazy"?

I didn't intend to start at level 30 (god, I would hate that) but that doesn't Shepard needs to get obliterated in order to start a game with a level reset.

look at ME2 - Shepard died, was reborn, and the only comments he received in game about the effects of the procedure was a short quiz by Miranda and a quick message by Chackwas explaining his "scars". Besides those minor issues, Shepard was never told that he needed to "relearn combat"; Jacob even praises Shepard for his skills before leaving the station. 

Is it so hard to conceive that a simple level reset for the sake of balance is all that it takes? No fancy explanations or a Lazarus Project V2 is needed to explain a relatively minor gameplay mechanic.

Edit - forgot to back up my statement about Bioware being lazy. I only meant that having Shepard die, lose the Normandy, and force the crew to separate because of a disaster, would be to start the game off exactly as ME2 did; essentially copying ME2's intro. ME3 deserves to have a unique opening - not a rehashed scenario to explain a reset to level 1.

how about this?

[mass_zotz]

no

[kraidy1117]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

But it has to. We must start ME3 at Level 1 (+ slight bonuses for import). And what do you mean "lazy"?

I didn't intend to start at level 30 (god, I would hate that) but that doesn't Shepard needs to get obliterated in order to start a game with a level reset.

look at ME2 - Shepard died, was reborn, and the only comments he received in game about the effects of the procedure was a short quiz by Miranda and a quick message by Chackwas explaining his "scars". Besides those minor issues, Shepard was never told that he needed to "relearn combat"; Jacob even praises Shepard for his skills before leaving the station. 

Is it so hard to conceive that a simple level reset for the sake of balance is all that it takes? No fancy explanations or a Lazarus Project V2 is needed to explain a relatively minor gameplay mechanic.

Edit - forgot to back up my statement about Bioware being lazy. I only meant that having Shepard die, lose the Normandy, and force the crew to separate because of a disaster, would be to start the game off exactly as ME2 did; essentially copying ME2's intro. ME3 deserves to have a unique opening - not a rehashed scenario to explain a reset to level 1.

how about this?

how about this............

[Zulu_DFA]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Shepard: " I just for the life of me can't see this group working out. Good luck everybody, and see you later!"

*shocked silence ensues*

I see. What about an opening plot twist that is going to strip Shepard naked yet again?

Because it would be incredibly lazy for Bioware to essentially copy ME:2's intro, albeit with slight differences. It worked for ME:2, but that doesn't mean it will work ME:3. 

But it has to. We must start ME3 at Level 1 (+ slight bonuses for import). And what do you mean "lazy"?

I didn't intend to start at level 30 (god, I would hate that) but that doesn't Shepard needs to get obliterated in order to start a game with a level reset.

look at ME2 - Shepard died, was reborn, and the only comments he received in game about the effects of the procedure was a short quiz by Miranda and a quick message by Chackwas explaining his "scars". Besides those minor issues, Shepard was never told that he needed to "relearn combat"; Jacob even praises Shepard for his skills before leaving the station. 

Is it so hard to conceive that a simple level reset for the sake of balance is all that it takes? No fancy explanations or a Lazarus Project V2 is needed to explain a relatively minor gameplay mechanic.

Edit - forgot to back up my statement about Bioware being lazy. I only meant that having Shepard die, lose the Normandy, and force the crew to separate because of a disaster, would be to start the game off exactly as ME2 did; essentially copying ME2's intro. ME3 deserves to have a unique opening - not a rehashed scenario to explain a reset to level 1.

how about this?

how about this............

Yay!
I can post pics too: