I realize it's been about a week, but I happen to have a day job that precludes me from coming here regularly. I also realize that refuting arguments without presenting your own tends to be bankrupt of purpose, but kraidy1117 needs responding to.
I have to admit I'm a bit surprised in you, kraidy1117. It seems goading was all that was necessary to get your act together. You should do this more often when you post. However, you still seem confused about who it is you're addressing. You also seem confused about my intent.
kraidy1117 wrote...
This whole topic was an attempt to be a troll and only a few like you refuse to see it.
That is quite besides the point. The person we are (were)
discussing here is
not the OP, but rather someone else (Peppard). He only posted a couple times and I suppose the bickering going back and forth between the OP and others, and yourself and the thread hijackers, scared him off, but it's his argument I was addressing because you bothered to give him a response, and it was entirely inappropriate -- not to mention insulting, since you misunderstood completely. That was the point to my original post, before this whole thing snowballed.
Seeing as everyone else is being hostile, yet you point me out?
Who else was hostile?
In any case, it's again besides the point. You were pointed out for entirely different reasons, reasons I've already explained: you fail to read arguments properly, put words into people's mouths or twist what they say, conveniently ignore points that you have no answers for, etc. You just happen to be abusive or condescending on top of all that, as if somehow your stance deserves higher standing, or is one that shouldn't be debated because it's obviously right. I've observed this behavior from you time to time, and this time I decided to call you out on it. You were one of the most prolific posters in this thread and you demonstrated this behavior repeatedly in it, making it easy to observe. The whole
point was to single you out. The reason I posted in here at all was to correct an injustice I'd seen played out more times than I was happy with.
The only other posters I can think of who came close were thread hijackers like dinkamus or Nozybidaj, who only posted a few times and most certainly did not refer to others as idiots or "****ing morons" (which you most certainly did - several times, in fact, to more than one poster). They only stopped by to get some word in edgewise before departing - although I can see Nozybidaj found someone else to argue with. While they came in without bothering to debate anything, I don't remember them being abusive or hateful towards anyone.
I happened to mention this in my last post, but I guess you ignored it because you're feeling slighted. If I'd come in here to complain about thread hijackers, they might have been more relevant.
A Cameo that plays a big part of the main story, is still a cameo. Even a big cameo would be bad. For fans to be happy ME2 squadmates need to be recruitable, does that mean you need to have everyone at once?
Again with this 'cameo' bit. No one said anything about cameos besides yourself. You seem convinced that an argument for new characters reduces any old character into a 'cameo' role. Again, this is not necessarily the case, and arguing as such shows you fail to understand your opponent. (Personally, I think you keep confusing the OP's original argument with the one I'm defending. Let's see.)
Not at all, near the start you can choose who you want with you. Many old RPG games have done it, look at games like DAO (not going to spoil it for you but you don't need to recruit anyone expect for three characters that are manditory. Bioware must have had a plan to have ME2 squadmates recruitable for ME3, why would Bioware make all these intresting characters, advertise the suicide mission and then say in the loading screans, your descions will play a huge part in ME3. Yes I know people where disapointed with how decisions where handled in ME2 but it was never advertised, until a little bit after the game was out. ME2 however is advertsing it big time and to turn around and say "ya the people from ME2 will just be cameos" will do more harm then good. It does not matter if they play a huge part in the story, people want them in there party and plus many characters leaving would be half assed and cheap.
Again, none of this is being contested. No one has to leave, no one has to receive smaller roles. We have no idea at this point what Bioware will do in Mass Effect 3, so we can only speculate. Some (Peppard) have argued that new characters are a given, and that Bioware could find a way to introduce them without hurting the roles of returning characters. You argue here that "play[ing] a huge part in the story" is not good enough, that "people want them in there [sic] party and plus many characters leaving would be half assed and cheap." You seem to be once again responding to the wrong argument, the one the OP was raising. Or rather, you seem content blending it together with competing arguments, for whatever reason. (Perhaps because of what you say in the next paragraph I'll be quoting.) That's just bad reading on your part.
There is also the debate that some people think ME2 characters should get the ME treatment. That is selfish. People like me who had everyone lived for one reason only, to have them return in ME3 and battle with Shepard. If Bioware just gives us a new squad then not only are they telling me that ME2 characters where useless, but that ME2 was a waste of time and there was no point to even make sure people survive the suicide mission and that would make the whole suicide mission a gimmick. I am not trying to be mean but this topic has been brought up so many times that realy topics like thispoping up again gives out the feeling that you are trying to be a troll. If you want to discuss this, then use the search and then bump up an old topic. Bringing up a topic like this and with the title it has shows fans of ME2 that this OP is a troll. That might not have been the OP intention but it happen.
Perhaps. Except the OP has not been the only person arguing here, and they haven't been singing the same tune as him. You just lump them all together as if they were. You need to get over that, and open your eyes.
Plus giving us new squadmates would take alot more money then just using the old characters. People seem to forget that games cost alot of time and money to make. Why do you think there has yet to be and never will be a video game that gives you the choice to do what ever you want. Games try to do it, but there is still limitations and thats because of money. Not only is making squadmates from ME and ME2 more cost friendly, but it would also make fans happy and profit for ME3 will be postive. Thats what Bioware and EA need to look at. If both companys try to do the easy way out in ME3, it will backfire badly and ME3 will not sell that well. Reviews come out weeks and days before the realese of a game. If reviews even mention that we have a new band of misfits and that the squadmates from ME2 only play a minor part that will ensure ALOT of people will not buy it.
Some people, yes. We're not talking about "do[ing] what ever [sic] you want" though. We are (or rather, I am) talking about how to go about introducing new characters without necessarily shafting the old ones. You can sit there and talk about time, money and effort all you want, but when you're not on the development team, you have no idea just how much time, money and effort is required to implement some of these features. You can assume, but that's about it.
That's why people speculate. People have ideas, they want to express them, they find a place to do it. Sensible people do not worry themselves over time/money constraints when expressing themselves, because it's not their concern. They're here to provide feedback, and some suggestions. Bioware decides how much of it they want to take to heart. They don't need people like you pointing out this obvious fact, unless said people are delusional.
Going back to speculation: creating new characters and giving them new voice actors costs money, yes. But who is to say that new voice actors are hired? Who is to say that these new characters themselves receive large roles? No one besides Bioware can say so with authority. The entire group dynamic could change in Mass Effect 3, so much so that it renders any argument concerning this whole issue about party members moot. You might even be happy with the result.
That's why people speculate. As far as I know, no one taking this topic seriously has
demanded Bioware do as they say -- which
would warrant reminders such as "Bioware has limited resources, you're just one fan, don't badger them."
Also would you buy the game if ME3 story was just a recruitment phase all over again
I was not arguing for this. When I did talk about recruitment it was the suggestion that perhaps Bioware will revamp the entire party member dynamic -- as we currently understand it -- with something completely new. It may still exist, but in a different form, just like how the party member dynamic in
Dragon Age is different from that of
Mass Effect.
Again, please decide in advance who it is you're going to be addressing. I am not the OP; choose your words more carefully.
When it comes to a sensitive topic like this, Bioware and EA need too look at two factors, fans and profit. Bring back the old squadmates will benifit them better then just giving us new people. I don't mind if theres new squadmates in ME3, but me, including many fans of ME3 want to finsh the game with there two fav characters with them.
Ah, now here's something sensible! Why did you even go on with all that drivel just to say this at the end? You appear to have no problem with new characters at all! Well guess what, I agree! Repeating myself here (more often than I'd like), but I'd like to see old characters return, and in a meaningful way, and by doing so 'join my squad' (assuming things stay the same way in that regard) too. This has in fact been the cornerstore of my entire argument (or rather, the one I've been defending -- it's depressing to see that Peppard hasn't returned). You also shamelessly state you'd be content with just your "two fav characters," suggesting that the rest of the old cast could die for all you care. Consistency is important, kraidy1117. People can respect an opposing opinion so long as they understand the person means it.
Modifié par CTM1, 19 avril 2010 - 04:59 .
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