74 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Truly, Mass Effect 2 is very similiar to the second half of FFVI, the World of Ruin, in story structure and many similiar elements.

Where to start...and I will try to keep the ME2 spoilers to a minimum

Both games put character development over plot. While the first half of FFVI is a linear style traditional JRPG, the second half, which I compare ME2 to, is more like an open ended WRPG where the characters matter far more than the main plot. With the exception of Celes, who is the protagonist of the World of Ruin (FFVI doesn't really have a main character, but I think Terra and Celes share the lead), each character has a quest dedicated to them, and some have two, like Cyan. Those that have two have one for re-recruitment and one for development. For instance you find Cyan at Mt Zozo, but he has the nightmare quest in Doma. I guess the Solitary Island is Celes's quest. Mass Effect 2, 8 of the 12 squadmates have in depth recruitment quests, and all have character development quests, or "loyalty missions". Also in both games, you cannot pick up any character you want right away, you recruit some and others open up. But there is the central goal, in ME2 its the Omega 4 Relay, and in FFVI, its Kefka's Tower. So, very similiar in structure, even with a few differences.

Also, bad guy wins and the Airship is destroyed, Celes awakens after one year, assembles a team (or reassembles it) and saves the world from the villain. In ME2, bad guys win, Normandy is destroyed, Shepard is "dead" for two years, is revived, assembles a team to save the galaxy (or humanity) from the villains...go figure.

Can't help but think that Bioware took a few pointers from FFVI.......one aspect that FFVI that ME2 lacks (but the first game didn't), is a strong central antagonist. ME2 had the collectors....but FFVI had a scene stealing Satan clown with a very cruel nature and  a love of sadism, suffering, and death. I my opinion, he is still the greatest RPG villain in gaming history, although Baldur's Gate II's Jon Irenicus comes close (as does Luca Blight of Suikoden II).

And for all the JRPG haters and FF haters....yes the FF series has gone to crap and so have JRPGs...but FFVI is the definitive FF and JRPG. It's not only the best game in the series, but the best JRPG of all time (with Chrono Trigger a close second). Both JRPG and WRPG fans owe it to play this game. Its far better than the overrated FFVII that is the false standard, or the crap that is FFXIII.

[Sutamina]

hm another one of these...

[txgoldrush]

Its game comparision of similiarities more than, "which game is better?"



Both would be in my top 5 favorite RPGs.

[-System]

I have to say my top 3 favorite RPGs are Chrono Trigger, FFVII and FFVI. Now that you mention it, you're right about the character development similarities. Makes me want to dust off my SNES..

Modifié par -System, 12 avril 2010 - 07:12 .

[vhatever]

Anything done in the FF series was, by large, taken from Ultima.

[txgoldrush]

vhatever wrote...

Anything done in the FF series was, by large, taken from Ultima.

The whole JRPG genre was born out of Ultima III. It was the inspiration for the maker of Dragon Quest (or Warrior).

[ApolloCloud]

Final Fantasy VI is not the definitive JRPG. Xenogears, Xenosaga, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers are all vastly superior in just about every area that matters for a JRPG (art direction, music, and storyline).

[A Killing Sound]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Final Fantasy VI is not the definitive JRPG. Xenogears, Xenosaga, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers are all vastly superior in just about every area that matters for a JRPG (art direction, music, and storyline).

The above statement is correct if you subtract the words Xenosaga, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers.

[ApolloCloud]

Xenosaga, Chrono Cross and radical Dreamers stay for the very same reasons Xenogears and Chrono Trigger do. Using deep, complicated themes to tell complex, imaginative stories with an unparalleled level of emotion, scope, vision and ambition is really what JRPG are about. And Xenogears, Xenosaga, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers all embody those principles. As far as storytelling, music, and art design is concerned, there really isn't anything greater or even on the same level, video game or otherwise. And Final Fantasy VI, while great, doesn't come close to a single one of them.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I see the parallels you mention OP, interesting comparison (thought you meant that new FF game at a glance till I registered the "VI" part).

I use to play that game like a video crackhead when I was a teen. I, IV, VI, and VII were my favorite FF games by far. Then they started getting too futuristic weird and I started having trouble telling who was male and who was female (SquareEnix for some reason doesn't approve of male facial structure).

[marshalleck]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I see the parallels you mention OP, interesting comparison (thought you meant that new FF game at a glance till I registered the "VI" part).
I use to play that game like a video crackhead when I was a teen. I, IV, VI, and VII were my favorite FF games by far. Then they started getting too futuristic weird and I started having trouble telling who was male and who was female (SquareEnix for some reason doesn't approve of male facial structure).

Male or female? You decide!

[A Killing Sound]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Xenosaga, Chrono Cross and radical Dreamers stay for the very same reasons Xenogears and Chrono Trigger do. Using deep, complicated themes to tell complex, imaginative stories with an unparalleled level of emotion, scope, vision and ambition is really what JRPG are about. And Xenogears, Xenosaga, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers all embody those principles. As far as storytelling, music, and art design is concerned, there really isn't anything greater or even on the same level, video game or otherwise. And Final Fantasy VI, while great, doesn't come close to a single one of them.

I disagree.  Final Fantasy VI had the same level of scope, vision, and ambition.  Amano's character designs were amazing.  The music in VI was classic, especially the world of balance map theme (which is my second fav. square song after Chrono Trigger's 1000 A.D world map music.  There are also tons of great themes such as brotherhood (Sabin and Edgar), war crimes (the poisoning of Doma) and how humankind learns to cope with the destruction of the world.  Saying Final Fantasy VI doesn't rival the themes of other JRPG's is silly.  There is a reason this game is considered one of the best in the series.

As for the discussion on whether FFVI is comparable to Mass Effect 2, the OP makes excellent points!

Modifié par A Killing Sound, 12 avril 2010 - 07:13 .

[Mercuriol]

I think Mass Effect 2 borrows a lot from SpaceWar! It's a videogame and SpaceWar! was one of the first videogames. It's even set in space and has ships!

ApolloCloud wrote...

Final Fantasy VI is not the definitive JRPG. Xenogears, Xenosaga, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers are all vastly superior in just about every area that matters for a JRPG (art direction, music, and storyline).

Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross good? Good one, you almost had me!

[marshalleck]

Wait wait wait...Parasite Eve was about genetics, and there are genetics in ME2! Also, Parasite Eve has guns, and so does ME2!

[Annihilator27]

I hope they remak FF VI for the DS, Now about that golden sun........

[marshalleck]

Uhh..they did remake it for the DS didn't they?

[A Killing Sound]

No, it was on game boy advance

[marshalleck]

Oh, I guess that's right. It was the one with Cecil and Kaine that got remade for DS.

[Mercuriol]

No they remade III and IV, I think. I wouldn't want to see a remake, the character design of the other remakes were too 'chibi' for my tastes. No  3D remake for consoles either, since Square will screw it up.

Modifié par Mercuriol, 12 avril 2010 - 07:22 .

[marshalleck]

I have a copy of FF IV for GBA which is imo the best version of the game outside of perhaps original japanese versions which I've never seen. And I played it on SNES when it was called FF II.

[ApolloCloud]

Well don't get me wrong, I do love Final Fantasy VI but, Xenogears for example heavily explored the ideas and concepts of four of the greatest philosophers the world has ever known, a tonne of religious, political and militaristic themes, economics, racism, ethics, the nature of existence, God, and the universe, many different scientific themes, love, betrayal, friendship, revenge, identity, psychology, the subjectivity of memory, experience and reality, the struggle between man and machine, and many, many more, and more than that, it didn't just make references to such themes in a vague manner, but it explored them in enormous detail and tied some of them directly to the underlying role of the storyline ("God is Dead", eternal recurrence, the Overman to name a few). And it explored the themes over dozens of hours so as to not upset the balance and pacing of the storyline.

And beyond just its sheer depth its arguably the most complex story I've ever come across (think of the likes of Neon Genesis Evangellion, any david Lynch Film, A Clockwork Orange, primer etc. and then magnify their levels of complexity by about a hundred and you approach what Xenogears has to offer). Absurdly complicated narrative structure and subject matter, a tonne of mystery and ambiguity, an insane amount of symbolism, and plot reveleations that make you question everything that you were lead to believe about the story up until that point, but actually make more sense looking back on on it in light of the mentioned plot revelation. And just so many dimenions to the storyline depending on the perspective from which you look at it.

Final Fantasy VI was great but it was nowhere near as advanced as something like Xenogears and the same applies to the other games.

I'd also argue that the art direction and music is heavily leaning in the favour of the mentioned games (the music for Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and Radical Dreamers is at least).

Modifié par ApolloCloud, 12 avril 2010 - 07:31 .

[marshalleck]

I'm not really sure it's fair to compare art and music for games of different generations of hardware

[A Killing Sound]

You can, you just have to keep everything in prespective. Character sketches is about the only thing you can compare across hardware generations.

[marshalleck]

If we're going to compare character sketches, the picture of Terra on the magitek mech wins every comparison from now until the end of time. It's absolutely beautiful.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 avril 2010 - 07:40 .

[ApolloCloud]

But I'm not talking about the technical quality of the music and visuals (something that si dependant on technology) but the artistic quality of the music and visuals (something that doesn't). In terms of the sheer quality of the sound obviously the music in Chrono trigger has become a little dated, but in terms of its artistic quality? Its among the very best the medium has to offer.