1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Xenon]

 I think the OP is stereotyping white people as being racist against black people. (Also known as 'racism')
As a white male gamer, this is how Jacob went for me.
-Cool, honest guy on the Lazarus Station. Then the same on the shuttle.
-Didn't talk to him for awhile, got Thane, thought his position was overzealous, but I just ignored his objections, because Thane seemed pretty cool.
-Didn't talk to him again until after I completed his loyalty mission. Too interested in Miranda and Mordin.
-Completed his Loyalty mission, felt the moral outrage... Jacob's still a cool guy in my book.
-Finally, it happens. I go to talk to him, things are all cool, he resolved his father issues and then I ask him a personal question and drops the: "You gotta earn the right to ask those sort of questions" or something like that.
I literally said "You d*ck!" and never talked to him again.
I mean come on! I just helped him chase after his seemingly long dead father's ghost, helped him bring his Dad to justice, kicked ass and took names for 15 previous hours, got his loyalty and STILL he refuses to talk. 
And then Mordin sang for me. Grunt and I killed a giant space worm. I got to yell at a bunch of Admirals with Tali. I got to say "Surprise! It's a trap!" to Morinth. Tackled a serious ethical question with Legion. Resolved some of Jack's emotional baggage. Let Garrus shoot Harkin in the leg (a serious highlight of ME2). Interrogated a corrupt guy with Thane and so on...
Where was the interesting side of Jacob? He was just so boring. But at least he gave us the priiiiiiiize....

[HighMoon]

ShadyKat wrote...

Jacob and Miranda were both bland, and needed a lot more fleshing out. Neither were bad characters, they just need some personality.

I disagree. If you payed attention to Miranda's character you would see that she has character progression during the course of the game. Barring Jack, she is the character that undergoes the biggest changes by the end.

[viverravid]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

You say that Anderson is possibly African American in a Colin Powell kinda way, but he doesn't speak like a black guy.  What exactly are you saying here?  That Anderson is not a black guy because he speaks the American English language and pronounces the words in the correct manner as to how they are taught to be spoken in school?  I am sure that Anderson's VA Kieth David would appreciate hearing that from you.  I would be curious to hear his response to this.

Your argument actually has nothing to do with black or white skin color.  It has to do with who you think should be portrayed as a black person in video games.  Apparently according to you, a black VA can't sound educated and pronounce the words in the language as it was taught, and be a black character.

You're misunderstanding me, my bad.

What I'm talking about is that as well as African American being a genetic heritage, there is also a late 20th century/early 21st century African American culture - patterns of speech, idioms, body language etc. Maybe Af-Am isn't the right word for this culture - not all Af-Am people speak or act like that. For some it might be a point of pride, others might hate it. But there is definitely a complex of speech and body language traits that are associated in american media with African Americans. American comedians, black and white, riff on this all the time.

(remember I personally know 0 american people, this is all from how america portrays itself in TV and movies)

What I meant was Anderson is not written to display those cultural markers. His speech has the cultural markers of the military. If Mass Effect was a radio play you might imagine him as any race if it wasn't discussed explcitly, just as you might if you heard a Colin Powell speech knowing nothing else about him. Both come across as competent, confident military men.

Jacob does use those idioms and speech patterns people associate with modern Af-Am culture. I'm thinking things like "spill some drinks and get loud on the citadel" - the way he says it and his animations as he says it, as much as what he says. If Mass Effect was a radio play most people would immediately peg him as African American if they had previously been exposed  to american culture - because he sounds like lots of African American characters in modern-day media.

This doesn't have anything to do with judgements on either characters education or competence, it's affiliation with a culture. Jacobs comes across as smart and confident, and he also signifies that he identifies with a particular culture by the way he speaks. That culture is strongly associated with a race, for good or ill. If there is a better name for the culture than "African-American" let me know. Maybe it's "hip-hop" culture, or "urban" culture, or whatever.

[Collider]

It's important not to assume that a population of people are as they are portrayed in media. Media exaggerates all the time.

[fortunesque]

I respectfully disagree with the OP and I find it a shame that people have to cry racism if someone doesn't like a character that happens to have a darker skin tone.



Reasons that I put Jacob in my bottom picks of ME1 and ME2 squadmates:

-He changes sides too often. Jacob jumped ship on the Alliance after he disagreed with them. He's willing to jump ship on Cerberus if they cross certain ambiguous lines that he doesn't specify.

-He questions authority too much. This is evident with how he treats Thane, Tali, and Legion. Not even Ashley, who is arguably a less experienced and much more vocal soldier crossed that many lines. She understood the hierarchy. Jacob is not Shepard's peer and unless Shepard asks for input, none should be given.

-Along with finding him to be a bit disagreeable, I found that other squadmates suited my playing style.



Race has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking Jacob.

[TheLostGenius]

 Well if skin tone is an issue its because it makes him look more like a Reaper. It's not racist to hate reapers right?

[TheLostGenius]

I despise Tali for her pale white eyes, if that helps the cause.

[Collider]

Sharn01 wrote...

fanman72 wrote...

The OP is WAYYY off base. The only reason no one likes Jacob is that he is a boring character, plain and simple who exists just for femsheps. He's much like Kaiden in that regard.

You are mistaken, the femSheps have a worse reaction to Jacob then the maleSheps do.

Indeed. The tone Hale takes is atrocious.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

fanman72 wrote...

The OP is WAYYY off base. The only reason no one likes Jacob is that he is a boring character, plain and simple who exists just for femsheps. He's much like Kaiden in that regard.

You are mistaken, the femSheps have a worse reaction to Jacob then the maleSheps do.

Indeed. The tone Hale takes is atrocious.

She must be hosed. Each time she tries the sex kitten hump act, she must be hosed.

[Collider]

The funny is that I read that Hale recorded versions of dialogue where she didn't sound like she wanted to seduce Jacob. Why didn't they use those? It's...mind boggling. Maybe an oversight. I mean, they didn't seem to notice human enemies in ME1 constantly going "GO GO GO" and "ENEMIES EVERYWHERE" (3 people equals enemies everywhere??) every 5 seconds.

[Nightwriter]

Why they chose to keep the sex kitten style dialogue I'll never know, Collider. I simply don't get it.



It makes no sense and I can only hope the Bioware guys reading these boards know by now from the fans how totally ridiculous a call it was.

[Nazomi]

fortunesque wrote...

I respectfully disagree with the OP and I find it a shame that people have to cry racism if someone doesn't like a character that happens to have a darker skin tone.

Reasons that I put Jacob in my bottom picks of ME1 and ME2 squadmates:
-He changes sides too often. Jacob jumped ship on the Alliance after he disagreed with them. He's willing to jump ship on Cerberus if they cross certain ambiguous lines that he doesn't specify.
-He questions authority too much. This is evident with how he treats Thane, Tali, and Legion. Not even Ashley, who is arguably a less experienced and much more vocal soldier crossed that many lines. She understood the hierarchy. Jacob is not Shepard's peer and unless Shepard asks for input, none should be given.
-Along with finding him to be a bit disagreeable, I found that other squadmates suited my playing style.

Race has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking Jacob.

Well since the OP wasn't "crying racism" i guess it's irrelevent then. Jacob was certainly not my favorite character but I agree that a lot of people just have a harder time relating to black characters. That's probably why there are so few black leads in video games because the largest audiance is white male gamers. Race may have nothing to do with how you feel about Jacob but you would be in denial to suggest that race isn't a  significant factor when developers create video game protaganist.

[Keltoris]

fortunesque wrote...

I respectfully disagree with the OP and I find it a shame that people have to cry racism if someone doesn't like a character that happens to have a darker skin tone.

Reasons that I put Jacob in my bottom picks of ME1 and ME2 squadmates:
-He changes sides too often. Jacob jumped ship on the Alliance after he disagreed with them. He's willing to jump ship on Cerberus if they cross certain ambiguous lines that he doesn't specify.
-He questions authority too much. This is evident with how he treats Thane, Tali, and Legion. Not even Ashley, who is arguably a less experienced and much more vocal soldier crossed that many lines. She understood the hierarchy. Jacob is not Shepard's peer and unless Shepard asks for input, none should be given.
-Along with finding him to be a bit disagreeable, I found that other squadmates suited my playing style.

Race has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking Jacob.

This, this, this.

10 Things I Hate That Make Me Not Care About Jacob:
1. "Don't forget to introduce yourself to EDI, the ship's AI."
2. "That is, if you're comfortable having an assassin watch your back."
3. Pull
4. Barrier
5. 'Left the Alliance because they don't do anything. Will leave Cerberus if he doesn't like what they do.
6. "Already? I'm not big on forcing these talks. Maybe later."
7. "Bullets can deactivate it."
8. "Get over here!" (Pet peeve: too many Death Knights with macros when I still played WoW)
9. His lips.
10. The Priiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiize.

Modifié par Keltoris, 14 avril 2010 - 09:12 .

[Shockwave81]

I didn't like him simply because of the way he treated new recruits such as Thane and Tali when they arrived on the SR2. Other than that, I just don't find him useful in a fight.

[Beholderess]

Xenon wrote...

 I think the OP is stereotyping white people as being racist against black people. (Also known as 'racism')
As a white male gamer, this is how Jacob went for me.
-Cool, honest guy on the Lazarus Station. Then the same on the shuttle.
-Didn't talk to him for awhile, got Thane, thought his position was overzealous, but I just ignored his objections, because Thane seemed pretty cool.
-Didn't talk to him again until after I completed his loyalty mission. Too interested in Miranda and Mordin.
-Completed his Loyalty mission, felt the moral outrage... Jacob's still a cool guy in my book.
-Finally, it happens. I go to talk to him, things are all cool, he resolved his father issues and then I ask him a personal question and drops the: "You gotta earn the right to ask those sort of questions" or something like that.
I literally said "You d*ck!" and never talked to him again.
I mean come on! I just helped him chase after his seemingly long dead father's ghost, helped him bring his Dad to justice, kicked ass and took names for 15 previous hours, got his loyalty and STILL he refuses to talk. 
And then Mordin sang for me. Grunt and I killed a giant space worm. I got to yell at a bunch of Admirals with Tali. I got to say "Surprise! It's a trap!" to Morinth. Tackled a serious ethical question with Legion. Resolved some of Jack's emotional baggage. Let Garrus shoot Harkin in the leg (a serious highlight of ME2). Interrogated a corrupt guy with Thane and so on...
Where was the interesting side of Jacob? He was just so boring. But at least he gave us the priiiiiiiize....

This! Exactly my feelings about Jacob.
Liked him at first as a good and honest guy, espetially compared to Miranda.
Talked to him on Normandy. As a femShep, been appalled by my own character's lines. Ugh...But it looked like Jacob is going to be an interesting teammate. Corsair past, prevented a very high-profile assasination, works for Cerberus yet doesn't trust them...looks promising.
Trying to talk to him some more. Get disgusted at the so-called "romance" being all but forced upon me. No, I don't want to romance him! Now how do I tell my character that?=). Strangely enough, not one of the cool topics mentioned in the first conversation ever comes up again. Disappointed.
Done his loyalty mission. Good one, but...still very, very disappointed that it had nothing to do with an interesting parts of his background. Jacob's dad just appeared from nowhere, got shot and is never mentioned again. I understand that in rl people can have a lot of completely unrelated problems, but in fiction (espetially games) it is kind of expected that most of the character issues come from one source. And it is expected that said source is mentioned in one of the first conversations. The cool stuff is left unexplored, and I quickly lose interest.
Trying to talk to him some more. Boring.
Got Tali and Thane. So, now he is defending Cerberus as if it have done no wrong. And he dislikes asasins - despite being gun-for-hire himself. Of course, were he more interesting, I would not have minded him being imperfect, but by now he is a) unlikeable and not entertaining enough to make up for a).

[Beholderess]

Shockwave81 wrote...

I didn't like him simply because of the way he treated new recruits such as Thane and Tali when they arrived on the SR2. Other than that, I just don't find him useful in a fight.

Funny thing - I really dislike the way Miranda interacts with the most of the new recruits too. But she is entertaining enough to overlook that (from out-of-game perspective).

It worth mentioning that people tend to judge fictional character in accordance to different criteria than real people.
It is perfectly possible to disapprove some (or even the most, lol) of the character's actions and still appreciate the character (if only because you love to hate him/her).
Boring characters are alright too - at least they don't get on anyone's nerves.
But when a boring character does something I happen to dislike - then it makes me stop caring about said character.

[Tlazolteotl]

Jacob is awesome. He volunteers to go through the vents.

Of course, I let him.

[exterminator_]

The only black man i like - cause he is loyal when i order him to clean my boots



And guys he is famous now because of kasumi



She likes him - so with their marriage he will become famous soon heh (chained) lol

[Apollo Rising]

I keep hearing this crap about how JT was insulting to Tali regarding the introduce yourself to EDI remark. Do any of you pay attention? He was very cordial to her and even acknowledged that he looked forward to working with her, and had nothing to do with what happened on the Flotilla. Its only after Tali gives him the ****y attitude that he gets smart right back with her. I guess some people are butt hurt that he dissed their girl.

As for Legion...cmon he's a friggin Geth. I mean not only 2 years earlier the Geth almost helped to destroy the Citadel...just like that he's supposed to be comfortable with it being on the ship,let alone keeping it in the AI CORE.Thats not realistic.

And as far as Thane is concerned my Shepard told Jacob to keep an eye on him...because I dont trust assassins either...all that sneaking around...be a real man as Grunt would put it "straight to the face".

[Apollo Rising]

exterminator wrote...

The only black man i like - cause he is loyal when i order him to clean my boots

And that **** is supposed to be funny? This is the crap that makes people bring up that racial BS. Grow up son.

[KendallX23]

Ok..i must be one of the few people..but...I like Jacob..i take him in missions..one walkthrough he was a permanent squad memeber..did ok..killed a lot of baddies..

He was never insulting with Tali..till Tali started going at him(depsite the fact that Jacob was nice to her,manners say u treat him the same,even if a litlle icy).WHo would trust an assasin u know almost nothing about ?

Only now started a woman...but i like the priiiize...

[smecky-kitteh]

jacob is my wing man

[Garuda One]

This entire thread. Also lets knock up the discussion. If Miranda is suppose to be the perfect human, why is the perfect human white? Could she have been mixed???

Also this video should explain Jacobs role Samuel L. Jackson in Clone Wars

Modifié par Garuda One, 14 avril 2010 - 12:52 .

[Jake71887]

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

I didn't read this post past the first paragraph, nor did I read any of it's replies... Yet I feel I can accurately dismiss this claim in two simple words...

Jolee Bindo

[Skilled Seeker]

Apollo Rising wrote...

exterminator wrote...

The only black man i like - cause he is loyal when i order him to clean my boots

And that **** is supposed to be funny? This is the crap that makes people bring up that racial BS. Grow up son.

This is exterminator we are talking about. He is the biggest troll on the Bioware social site and openly supports rape, racism, beating women etc. So this doesn't surprise me 1 bit.