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[Beholderess]

Jake71887 wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

I didn't read this post past the first paragraph, nor did I read any of it's replies... Yet I feel I can accurately dismiss this claim in two simple words...

Jolee Bindo

Lol, so true. Jolee is one of the best characters I've seen in games, and certainly my favourite in KOTOR. Soooo...it is quite possible to have an awesome character who happens to have dark skin. Too bad that Jacob is not one of them.

[Puppet Doctor]

Jacob is just meh to me. I am indifferent with him really but I hate the way FemShep talks to him when she says "I just want to talk about you." Its annoying because you can't skip over that terribly acted line (and I like almost all of Jennifer Hale's voice acting).



I also don't like how he doesn't really seem to want to romance with you but he ends up doing so. I finally got around to playing the ManShep import I had from ME1 and am romancing Miranda. I must say so far her romance dialogue is a million times better then Jacob's. She is more opened and seems to be more interesting and doesn't block you out.



I liked Kaiden in ME1 he had an interesting back story but I hate the way his voice is so low when you talk to him but that is a different story. Kaiden has interesting stories and is more opened.

[WilliamShatner]

Beholderess wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

I didn't read this post past the first paragraph, nor did I read any of it's replies... Yet I feel I can accurately dismiss this claim in two simple words...

Jolee Bindo

Lol, so true. Jolee is one of the best characters I've seen in games, and certainly my favourite in KOTOR. Soooo...it is quite possible to have an awesome character who happens to have dark skin. Too bad that Jacob is not one of them.

Jolee is indeed awesome.

And the reason is he's a well written character and not a racial caricature.  He could just as easily be white, asian or Jawa and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Jacob is such a bad character the writer should be fired, and so should the person who decided to waste a romance slot on him.

[Archereon]

The thing about Jacob is that he almost seems like some ordinary guy you'd meet on the streets. There's nothing ridiculously special about him. He's one of the only normandy crew members (along with Joker, Tali, and Paragon Shepard) that I wouldn't mind meeting in real life.

[WilliamShatner]

Ordinary people join terrorist organisations?

[Archereon]

WilliamShatner: Its arguable whether Cerberus is good or evil. I'd say the latter as their boss is voiced by Martin Sheen, but who knows. Its at least far more defendable than any modern terrorist organization.

[sipaufade]

 i really liked jacob until i romanced him as a femshep. he was so annoying and cheesy as an li. i lost all respect for him. i dumped him for thane. even if he is a frog

[WilliamShatner]

It's is not arguable in the slightest. They are a group devoted to propagating a human master race; testing on and exterminating those they consider inferior.

Remind you of something?

Yeah, they're space N@zis!

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 14 avril 2010 - 06:51 .

[Gildenlock]

CAPTAIN ANDERSON IS THE ****

he's black i have no problem relating to him or thinking he's cool. i'd love to meet the voice actor that performed him and shake his hand.



Jacob is an Ok character, just not that interesting. race seriously doesn't seem like an issue to me. i've played many different shepards of different skintones, and i feel like i identify with them alll equally. i seriously don't think race is an issue,

[TheLostGenius]

The racism is because African American's are all Geth sympathizers since their ancestors were enslaved, as were the Geth.

[Jzadek72]

Archereon wrote...

WilliamShatner: Its arguable whether Cerberus is good or evil. I'd say the latter as their boss is voiced by Martin Sheen, but who knows. Its at least far more defendable than any modern terrorist organization.

I'd say many modern terrorist organisations are defendable. I disapprove of their methods, but many are fighting like this because they need to protect themselves, and there is literally no other way. The terrorism may not work either, but try having your home destroyed, your children murdered, and then not fighting against the people seemingly responsible. That's the situation in Palestine for example.

Cerberus are just N@zis.

[Dyonas]

I can't stand Jacob and on my current game I intend to do everything possible to make sure he dies. Why? He is the most obnoxious character in the game with no redeeming qualities in my opinion. Need more reasons? Every new character you meet he's there and on the ones that *he* doesn't trust or like he second guesses you every time. That is something I can't stand at all. I'd feel the same whether he was black, white, orange, pink, green, blue, etc or Vorcha. He has an attitude and is a suck up, he needs to die.

[Nazomi]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

I didn't read this post past the first paragraph, nor did I read any of it's replies... Yet I feel I can accurately dismiss this claim in two simple words...

Jolee Bindo

Lol, so true. Jolee is one of the best characters I've seen in games, and certainly my favourite in KOTOR. Soooo...it is quite possible to have an awesome character who happens to have dark skin. Too bad that Jacob is not one of them.

Jolee is indeed awesome.

And the reason is he's a well written character and not a racial caricature.  He could just as easily be white, asian or Jawa and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Jacob is such a bad character the writer should be fired, and so should the person who decided to waste a romance slot on him.

Well first of all I've always got the impression that a lot of people didn't like Jolee very much. Regardless,  It's very common for people to be more receptive to older, non sexually threatening black characters. (i.e. Morgan Freeman, Samuel Jackson, Laurence Fishburne)

[Karstedt]

Beholderess wrote...

Madi wrote...
I didn't read this post past the first paragraph, nor did I read any of it's replies... Yet I feel I can accurately dismiss this claim in two simple words...

Jolee Bindo

Lol, so true. Jolee is one of the best characters I've seen in games, and certainly my favourite in KOTOR. Soooo...it is quite possible to have an awesome character who happens to have dark skin. Too bad that Jacob is not one of them.

Bindo ain't black! Take it back!

[spacehamsterZH]

Dyonas wrote...

I can't stand Jacob and on my current game I intend to do everything possible to make sure he dies.

Just let him have his wish and send him into the air duct.

[Dyonas]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Dyonas wrote...

I can't stand Jacob and on my current game I intend to do everything possible to make sure he dies.

Just let him have his wish and send him into the air duct.

I always thought that's what he wanted... he shall have his wish!

[Nigawatts]

I hated him cuz he was black. Wait I mea

[TheLostGenius]

His skin color too closely resembles the hull color of the Reapers. Had to be said. Because of his skin tone he looks like a Reaper. Very freaky if you ask me, he might even be one of them!!!!1!

[Madi]

Wow! Didn't expect this thread to be this popular. Unfortunately some of you seem to completely ignore a lot of what i actually said. I never said the issue was "racism" and people who don't like Jacob are racist. I'm pretty sure I actually   specified that but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my point was i just think the problem is a lot of people just can't relate to Jacob the same way they could if he was another one of the numerous "plain", "normal" white guys in video games. That doesn't mean you're a racist and I was never saying it did so please no need to get so upset and defensive about it.

[Beholderess]

Madi wrote...

Wow! Didn't expect this thread to be this popular. Unfortunately some of you seem to completely ignore a lot of what i actually said. I never said the issue was "racism" and people who don't like Jacob are racist. I'm pretty sure I actually   specified that but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my point was i just think the problem is a lot of people just can't relate to Jacob the same way they could if he was another one of the numerous "plain", "normal" white guys in video games. That doesn't mean you're a racist and I was never saying it did so please no need to get so upset and defensive about it.

Hmm, but in this case it should be even more difficult for people to relate to the aliens. After all, aliens are certainly not "plain" or "normal".

[Beholderess]

Nazomi wrote...

Well first of all I've always got the impression that a lot of people didn't like Jolee very much. Regardless,  It's very common for people to be more receptive to older, non sexually threatening black characters. (i.e. Morgan Freeman, Samuel Jackson, Laurence Fishburne)

Some people like Jolee, some hate him (depending on if they like contemplating the navels or not, mostly=), but he is certainly not plain or forgettable.
Not many people actively dislike Jacob - it's just easy to forget about him.

And I have no idea just how a video game character can be sexually threatening...

[GodWood]

Madi wrote...

Wow! Didn't expect this thread to be this popular. Unfortunately some of you seem to completely ignore a lot of what i actually said. I never said the issue was "racism" and people who don't like Jacob are racist. I'm pretty sure I actually   specified that but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my point was i just think the problem is a lot of people just can't relate to Jacob the same way they could if he was another one of the numerous "plain", "normal" white guys in video games. That doesn't mean you're a racist and I was never saying it did so please no need to get so upset and defensive about it.

I'll start by saying I'm a white male.
So you're saying that I can relate to: a 1400 year old dinosaur thing with 4 balls, a lizard excop/vigilante/batman, a frog assassin whose allergic to water and a tattooed shaven woman who can tear me in half with her bare hands..
but I can't possibly relate to a black man.

[Polka14]

Madi wrote...

Wow! Didn't expect this thread to be this popular. Unfortunately some of you seem to completely ignore a lot of what i actually said. I never said the issue was "racism" and people who don't like Jacob are racist. I'm pretty sure I actually   specified that but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my point was i just think the problem is a lot of people just can't relate to Jacob the same way they could if he was another one of the numerous "plain", "normal" white guys in video games. That doesn't mean you're a racist and I was never saying it did so please no need to get so upset and defensive about it.

There is nothing "normal" about having European ancestory. I can relate to anyone if I wished.  I am extremely offended by your insistence that I and others are racist. Yes, the way you worded it would clearly indicate nothing but racism whether you wished it or not. Calling someone racist is the worst thing you can call someone. By  the way, I am not "White" and I jacob is not exactly my favorite character. Bioware should have given us the Jacob that fought in the Citadel, not Cerberus Jacob. Furthermore, I disliked Kaiden and had him killed six times. Am I racist against whatever Kaiden is too? And we do have the right to be upset you imbecile!

[Substance-E]

Polka14 wrote...

Madi wrote...

Wow! Didn't expect this thread to be this popular. Unfortunately some of you seem to completely ignore a lot of what i actually said. I never said the issue was "racism" and people who don't like Jacob are racist. I'm pretty sure I actually   specified that but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my point was i just think the problem is a lot of people just can't relate to Jacob the same way they could if he was another one of the numerous "plain", "normal" white guys in video games. That doesn't mean you're a racist and I was never saying it did so please no need to get so upset and defensive about it.

There is nothing "normal" about having European ancestory. I can relate to anyone if I wished.  I am extremely offended by your insistence that I and others are racist. Yes, the way you worded it would clearly indicate nothing but racism whether you wished it or not. Calling someone racist is the worst thing you can call someone. By  the way, I am not "White" and I jacob is not exactly my favorite character. Bioware should have given us the Jacob that fought in the Citadel, not Cerberus Jacob. Furthermore, I disliked Kaiden and had him killed six times. Am I racist against whatever Kaiden is too? And we do have the right to be upset you imbecile!

He didn't say being white IRL was normal. He illustrated that white protagonists are normal/predominent in videogame culture (at least in western games)

Choosing to relate to someone doesn't give you the power to do so. I can't relate to someone who had divorced parents because mine never did nor could I to a parapalegic because I have never lost the use of my legs.

[Siansonea]

For the record, I think Jacob isn't popular for reasons other than the character's ethnicity. There are plenty of video game characters of African ancestry that are compelling and popular. Jacob is just not very well-implemented. His appearance is odd when he talks, it looks like he's got a new set of dentures that he's not used to yet. And his eyes are too close together, and he often looks cross-eyed when talking as well. Not to mention his body language often comes across as 'look at my abs' and seems a little too posed.



Honestly, I think many people don't like Jacob because he's the 'female's love interest' character. Kaidan was pretty widely maligned in the first game, especially by the young males. I think Jacob's voice acting is a bit weak.



Some characters just suffer from a 'perfect storm' of negative traits.