1527 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

Nazomi wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Jacob and jack aren't popular because their powers aren't that good. Simple as that. If bioware had given him a rifle I would use him more. And instead of pull give push or warp. He would be a bad ass then. Hopefully they'll change it for mass effect 3.

Jack isn't popular? Says who? I admit that normally that kind of female character would irriitate me but somehow I found myself really liking Jack.

Don't get me wrong I love Jack and Jacob. I'm just giving reasons as to why I don't use them ingame.

[bandfred]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Garuda One wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

EDIT: Holy ****. Had to edit for some goddamn white space. WTF.

Relevant to this topic:

AWESOME BLACK VIDEO GAME PROTAGONISTS
Sergeant Major Avery J. Johnson - Halo series
Doctor Eli Vance - Half Life series
Sazh Katzroy - Final Fantasy XIII
Augustus "Cole Train" Cole - Gears of War
Louis - Left 4 Dead
Jade - Beyond Good & Evil BONUS! She's the main character AND she's a she.

I could go on but the point has been made. Far more interesting and likable video game characters exist and also happen to be black (or at least, not white).

Sorry, OP. There's no elephant in the room.

The point is made is it?  I'd be pretty impressed if you could come up with a  list of non sterreotypical, non optional main characters. Not supporting characters. I think that was the point. Jade was desinged to be ethnically ambiguiuous by the way.

I agree, the only one who I think doesn't follow a stereotypical persona would be Eli Vance.

What the hell? So just because some people think those characters are stereotypes they can't be awesome? And the point still stands since they are all (in my opinion anyway) non-white video game characters that are leaps and bounds more interesting than Jacob.

But...yeah. I really wasn't sure about Jade. Also, I don't consider Eli, Sazh, or Louis to be stereotypical. Especially Sazh...though the whole chocobo thing is hilarious in a racist way. That, however, would be going off-topic.

It's all opinion anyway, so I guess I shouldn't care if I've impressed anyone.

How about Zach Hammond from Dead Space? I modeled my MaleShep after him.

[Dr.LiaraTsoni]

I disagree. I have a black friend that plays ME and he even concurs that Jacob is... how do I put this... creepy. I mean really, he acts just like a sexual predator. For example, Luis from Left 4 Dead. Why is it that everyone loves him? They wouldn't if they were subconsciously racist, but yet everyone still loves hime (for the most part)

[STG]

Dr.LiaraTsoni wrote...
For example, Luis from Left 4 Dead. Why is it that everyone loves him?

Grabbin' the priiize.

[MajesticJazz]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Am I a racist if I dislike Jacob, but chose Anderson to be councillor in Me1? Or am I half racist now? I´m a bit confused, could some of the racism experts in this thread please help me out?

I'll answer that.

See, this is very common with non-blacks, mainly whites. In an attempt to hide their potential racism or prejudice, they would give an example of how they related to another black individual as if that is suppose to solve everything.

Example, a white person claiming that they aren't racist because they voted for Obama or a guy saying that he isn't a sexist because he voted for Hilary Clinton in the Democratic Primaries. Voting for Obama does not rule out the possibility that one may still be racist. Remember back in the 1950s, white kids would dance the night away listening to black music (Rock and Jazz). Their idols would be black (Chuck Berry as an example) and their favorite music would come from black people. Hell, they'll probably even dance with a few black girls (or black guys if they were female) in the clubs. HOWEVER, that did not stop many of these kids from fighting against public school de-segregation. That didn't stop them from calling a black guy the N word from across the street because they see a black guy hitting on a white girl and so on.

My point is, I see a trend of many people here using the "Well I chose Anderson to be on the Counsil" as an excuse as to why and how they aren't prejudice against blacks. Chosing Anderson means NOTHING. It just means that you liked him better over Udina, it doesn't mean you are 100% liberated from racial prejudice.

[MajesticJazz]

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

[Beholderess]

MajesticJazz wrote...

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

Hmm, but Nightwriter answered that.

Nightwriter wrote...

We knew nothing about Jacob then. NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. They gave us no information on him.

If
the canvas is blank, we'll paint something on it. We'll find something
to say about that person. We had threads about Jacob joking about
blackness because that was pretty much the only thing we had to go on.

We had threads that did nothing but go on and on disparaging Miranda's ridiculous "perfection" because that's all we knew about her.

If
people disliked Jacob pre-release, it was because he was an unknown and
NOT because he was black. Last time I checked, every other single
character in the game was an unknown at that point and there was
dislike for each of them, as well. People hated Miranda, people hated
Jack, people hated lots of others.

Racism isn't just carried
by racists - it's carried by those oversensitive to racism, too, and
those who accuse it of being places it's simply not.

[Beholderess]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Am I a racist if I dislike Jacob, but chose Anderson to be councillor in Me1? Or am I half racist now? I´m a bit confused, could some of the racism experts in this thread please help me out?

I'll answer that.

See, this is very common with non-blacks, mainly whites. In an attempt to hide their potential racism or prejudice, they would give an example of how they related to another black individual as if that is suppose to solve everything.

Example, a white person claiming that they aren't racist because they voted for Obama or a guy saying that he isn't a sexist because he voted for Hilary Clinton in the Democratic Primaries. Voting for Obama does not rule out the possibility that one may still be racist. Remember back in the 1950s, white kids would dance the night away listening to black music (Rock and Jazz). Their idols would be black (Chuck Berry as an example) and their favorite music would come from black people. Hell, they'll probably even dance with a few black girls (or black guys if they were female) in the clubs. HOWEVER, that did not stop many of these kids from fighting against public school de-segregation. That didn't stop them from calling a black guy the N word from across the street because they see a black guy hitting on a white girl and so on.

My point is, I see a trend of many people here using the "Well I chose Anderson to be on the Counsil" as an excuse as to why and how they aren't prejudice against blacks. Chosing Anderson means NOTHING. It just means that you liked him better over Udina, it doesn't mean you are 100% liberated from racial prejudice.

Hmm, call me stupid if you want, but I don't understand. HOW does one demonstrate his/her lack of racial prejudice then?

[Pacifien]

I wasn't participating on these forums before ME2 came out, thus I couldn't have participated in threads that focused on Jacob's blackness. But what I did see pre-launch with Jacob, Miranda, Jack, and Grunt was that they were lesser characters because they weren't the original squadmates. In which case, any minute detail about them was inferior. And that led to racist and sexist comments all around.

But I do think he's a boring character compared to the other eleven squadmates -- that alone is enough reason for him to be the least popular character. He was a character with potential squandered on poor writing and a creepy romance.

Improve his romance and focus on aspects of his history that are truly interesting, then if he was still the least popular character, I can see an argument for racism. Or demonstrate that his romance is fine as it is and I've been missing elements of his story that make him a better character than the other eleven squadmates, then you have a solid argument for racism. Or find a post of mine that specifically references a racist remark, then you've caught me red-handed.

Without any of that you've got generalization and projection. Neither of them make for a solid argument.

[smudboy]

0) Was the head of security of the Lazarus facility for two years, and only him and Miranda survived.
1) He's essentially a toned down Paragon Shep, minus the Reaper stuff.  His situation is pretty much Shepards.  But do we ever get to use his point of view to baseline Shepard's actions?  Nope.  So, why need him in that respect?
2) Doesn't like Thane, isn't good at talking to Tali, wants to destroy a Geth that saved Shepard's life and talked to them, whereas Miranda recommends selling Legion.  What planet are you on, Jacob?
3) Doesn't like the idea of protecting Garrus.
4) Doesn't have an arc.
5) His loyalty mission is completely unbelievable to the point of being a farce on almost every level (has mechs, has mechs that haven't broken down, has mechs that haven't run out of power, thermal clip guns, thermal clip guns that haven't run out, lack of agriculture, no one repaired the becon till 10 years later?, hoarding food for 10 years from every other person would never have happened sans mutiny and the Captain's death, etc.)  The loyalty mission is apparently not very important to him, but it seems he's just being the "good son" who cares/doesn't care about his dad.  So which one is it?
6) Has a thief that's stalking him, yet she doesn't realize how dull he is because she's too busy staring as his ass.
7) Anything he can do, Grunt can do better.
8) He's the most relatable, normal character.  Which is automatic meh.

[Beholderess]

The number of posts in this thread makes me think that perhaps race indeed plays a factor in the disdain for Jacob. Or, rather, his race is a factor in a decidion to design him in such a way that happened to make him less popular than other squadmates.



1) Jacob is disliked mostly because he is boring. His "romance" plays a huge role, too, but it has more to do with FemShep's voice than Jacob himself.

2) Jacob is only boring when compared to the rest of the squadmates. He IS a well-written character. But with the rest of the squadmates being quirky/funny/alien/morally questionable/troubled/ in any combination, the normal, down-to-earth, moral guy with no real issues is quickly overshadowed.



3) So the question stands - WHY was he he designed that way? Why, of all the squadmates, he is both moral and issues-free?

4) Because if he was written in any other way, we would have a storm of accusations in racism much greater than we have now. If a black person was portayed as something other than a good man without much troubles - lol, I am almost sure that someone whold have sued Bioware=)

5) Imagine the kind of threads we'd have if the game's resident abused-child-turned-psycho-criminal was black? Or Cerberus cheerleader with huge...ahem...accets? Or assassin, raised from the birth to serve as his masters' weapon? Or an amoral mercenary? Lol, if any of these were made black, we would be deaf from the cries "Racist!"

6) So that's why Jacob is designed as he is - to avoid such accusations. Ironic, isn't it?

[bergerrz]

smudboy wrote...

0) Was the head of security of the Lazarus facility for two years, and only him and Miranda survived.
1) He's essentially a toned down Paragon Shep, minus the Reaper stuff.  His situation is pretty much Shepards.  But do we ever get to use his point of view to baseline Shepard's actions?  Nope.  So, why need him in that respect?
2) Doesn't like Thane, isn't good at talking to Tali, wants to destroy a Geth that saved Shepard's life and talked to them, whereas Miranda recommends selling Legion.  What planet are you on, Jacob?
3) Doesn't like the idea of protecting Garrus.
4) Doesn't have an arc.
5) His loyalty mission is completely unbelievable to the point of being a farce on almost every level (has mechs, has mechs that haven't broken down, has mechs that haven't run out of power, thermal clip guns, thermal clip guns that haven't run out, lack of agriculture, no one repaired the becon till 10 years later?, hoarding food for 10 years from every other person would never have happened sans mutiny and the Captain's death, etc.)  The loyalty mission is apparently not very important to him, but it seems he's just being the "good son" who cares/doesn't care about his dad.  So which one is it?
6) Has a thief that's stalking him, yet she doesn't realize how dull he is because she's too busy staring as his ass.
7) Anything he can do, Grunt can do better.
8) He's the most relatable, normal character.  Which is automatic meh.

FN agreed.

[OneDrunkMonk]

Here's a thought:

Why should all of the main characters in ME2 be exciting and "kick-@ss?" Jacob is who he is. He's a cool guy, seems to have his head and heart in the right place, I like him as a character. So what if he's not the most interesting guy to hang with in ME2, maybe he was never meant to be that interesting of a character, just like not everyone you meet in real life is a super bad-@ss either.

On the flip side his main Biotic is Pull which is the most lamest Biotic power to have and there is nothing he can do that can't be done better by other characters. Which is why I never used him much on missions. All this B.S. about "cause he's black" is nonsense.

Modifié par OneDrunkMonk, 17 avril 2010 - 05:05 .

[Stonetwister]

I'm not really sure why some people have to try to boil everything down to race.  The original poster's bias is clear when he/she seems to think Jacob's popularity has anything at all to do with race.  I would like to point out that I can relate to a black guy a hell of a lot better than a lizard man or a guy with some kind of hideous extra grasshopper jaw thing.
Personally, I really liked Jacob.  I am a straight dude so I didn't wanna pursue any romances with him, so I didn't see what is apparently a turn off about him.  He was one of my favorites at the beginning of the game along with Tali, but then Garrus showed up again in EPIC STYLE BABY and the professor was just so entertaining it was hard to leave him behind.  No one could ever get close to Tali, either, so she was always in my party as long as she was around.  I really liked Jacob, it's just that a few of the other characters were so awesome that it was difficult for a regular type guy to compete.

[Slakky]

smudboy wrote...
2) Doesn't like Thane, isn't good at talking to Tali, wants to destroy a Geth that saved Shepard's life and talked to them, whereas Miranda recommends selling Legion.  What planet are you on, Jacob?
3) Doesn't like the idea of protecting Garrus.

I spent my entire first playthrough waiting for a renegade interrupt to keelhaul that r-******.

Yes, please talk more smack to Tali and Legion.  What do you do here again?

[Collider]

@Beholderess, they could have made Jacob much more interesting without trying to make him a stereotype or making him have a dark past. He needs to talk more about his corsair days. There's plenty of potential there to relay interesting and exciting stories and experiences, the places he's seen, the thing's he's seen, etc. Just extra stuff like hobbies and interests would have been great.

[Nostradamoose]

I just watched a youtube video, now, hell, Jacob is my favourite ME 2 character... Of all goddamn times....

[bthillman]

Alright, throwing in my 2 cents while trying to add something productive to the conversation:

In Mass Effect: Revelation, it is explained that most humans are not "one race". By that century, nearly all humans have more than one racial background (i.e.: Anderson mentions he is several races such african american, native american...).  Now, it may not be the case for Jacob, but the point I am trying to make is race is not really an issue in the ME continuity.

Having said that, this thread was based on the OP's, and then all other poster's, opinions and conceptions of Jacob.  Obviously, everyone likes/dislikes Jacob for their own reasons.  Personally, I don't mind him so much as a character (Although, he's usually parked in the armory as I don't use him much.).  The reason I think there is not alot of popularity is a combination of what many people have already said. 

...Now that I am done being logical, I have to say... Because he's black?  Really?  What year is it again?

I apologize, but it had to be said.

[PTPR]

MajesticJazz wrote...

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

You have got to be kidding me..............
How do you expect to counter an arguement about racism with racism?
I mean, if you truly believe Jacob's being stereotyped, why would you stereotype others?
Isn't that counter-productive?

[Beholderess]

Collider wrote...

@Beholderess, they could have made Jacob much more interesting without trying to make him a stereotype or making him have a dark past. He needs to talk more about his corsair days. There's plenty of potential there to relay interesting and exciting stories and experiences, the places he's seen, the thing's he's seen, etc. Just extra stuff like hobbies and interests would have been great.

Yep. I've mentioned before that I was pretty disappointed that his corsair past was never elaborated upon. A shame, really, it could have great potential.

[SymbolicGamer]

I don't like Jacob because he's an annoyance on the ship, and his talents aren't all that great. I just don't like the character. Get loud and spill some drinks on the Citadel? *sighs*

[Aniki_21]

MajesticJazz wrote...

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

Well the OP didn't say that the people who dislike Jacob are necesarilly racist . I do agree with you on most of your points though. There's even a few of those racist "affirmative action" jokes in this thread. It really is a shame if there were threads like the ones you described before the game even came out.  Pretty disturbing

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

He's an alright sidekick.

[Madi]

Aniki_21 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

Well the OP didn't say that the people who dislike Jacob are necesarilly racist . I do agree with you on most of your points though. There's even a few of those racist "affirmative action" jokes in this thread. It really is a shame if there were threads like the ones you described before the game even came out.  Pretty disturbing

Seriously? I never even heard about that

[this isnt my name]

Madi wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

JKoopman wrote...


Dude, the way you go on about what "whites" like and what "whites" understand and what "whites" are comfortable with, it sounds to me like you're  the racist here. Don't think you can understand and define an entire race of people under one set of principles any more than I can say "Blacks only like Miranda because of her boot-ay".

It is very typical to counter against someone by blaming them for the subject matter at hand. Do I think that all White people on this board who dislike Jacob are racist and dislike him for his skin color? No, but I do believe that there are A LOT, not a small percentage, not a minority, not A LITTLE, but A LOT of white people in this board who dislike Jacob because of his dark skin tone.

Again, many would hide behind the "Jacob is boring" excuse, but yet nobody is answering my question as to if that was the truth, then why did Jacob recieve so much negative comments BEFORE the game game out? Before the game came out people didn't know how boring or exciting he was. He could have been a boring character, or the most interesting party member Bioware has ever created. We didnt know that about Jacob but yet he sure did get a lot of negative vibes and attention. One example would be prior to when the game was released, some people tried to create Jacob romance threads but before they got to a page 2, the conversation became a "Lets make ebonics jokes about What Jacob might say in a romance situation etc...." or "The Illusive man must got hit with affirmative action..." or crap like that. MIND YOU that this is PRIOR to the game releasing.

Well the OP didn't say that the people who dislike Jacob are necesarilly racist . I do agree with you on most of your points though. There's even a few of those racist "affirmative action" jokes in this thread. It really is a shame if there were threads like the ones you described before the game even came out.  Pretty disturbing

Seriously? I never even heard about that

Yet you still decided I hate Jacob because he is black...<_<