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Jacob: Why he is the least popular character in ME:2. (Elephant in the room)


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#451
Onyx Jaguar

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

Jacob REALLY isn't as bad as you people make him out to be. Sure Bioware could have done a better job but he still has more personality than say Marcus Fenix. I suggest you go through his entire conversation tree and bring him along for every mission in a playthrough. You'll realise he isn't so bad and does have issues except he keeps them bottled up so they aren't so transparent. Jacob's main issues are trust and doubt.


He's also pretty cool if you use him in vital roles in the Suicide Mission as I have found out.  With the exception of hte Biotic Barrier of course.

#452
Gavinthelocust

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I like Jacob even if he barely has a back story and his teeth can blind people. Besides, he has the PRIIIIZE!

#453
Jonathan Shepard

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Y'know, if you think Jacob's ridiculousness as a character had anything to do with his color, then you're overlooking once major counter argument.



Anderson. He's a very highly-esteemed character and he's black. Jacob? He's just a boring character. That's all there is to it. Being black is to most people irrelevant.

#454
primero holodon

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... Have you considered that the reason people don't like him is because he is bland and uniteresting? you say people like Carth Kaiden but I haven't met very many people who think that.

#455
Slayer299

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

Jacob REALLY isn't as bad as you people make him out to be. Sure Bioware could have done a better job but he still has more personality than say Marcus Fenix. I suggest you go through his entire conversation tree and bring him along for every mission in a playthrough. You'll realise he isn't so bad and does have issues except he keeps them bottled up so they aren't so transparent. Jacob's main issues are trust and doubt.


Maybe, but why would I *want* to drag Jacob around though? He's not all that and his skill set sucks in battle, for me at least.

#456
Gavinthelocust

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primero holodon wrote...

... Have you considered that the reason people don't like him is because he is bland and uniteresting? you say people like Carth Kaiden but I haven't met very many people who think that.

I think Kaiden is on the same boat as Jacob because he is boring as all hell too. Only difference is instead of glowing teeth of the sun god he has a voice like nails on a chalk board.

#457
this isnt my name

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Madi wrote...


Since you insist on continuing to say i said things i didn't say (which i highlighted) and apparently missed the main point i was trying to make let me just ask you a question. Do you think it's just a big coincidence that 99 % of lead characters are white?  (i.e. Nathan Drake from Uncharted, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, Marcus Phoenix from Gears of War,  Default Shepard FromMass Effect 1&2, etc.) How many black characters fall into that category? I think it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of lead video game charactersare white because the majority of the market is  made up of white males and the developers (who are mostly white males themselves)  understand that it's easier for them to relate better with human characters that look more like them. That's the main point I've been trying to make from the beginning.Not labeling anyone racist as some of you have incorrectly accused me of doing.

No, not a coincidence. But guess what Jacob isnt a lead character, therefroere I dont need to look like him, same goes for all other side characters, if I play a a custom char I make him/her look how I want, anyone else I could care less about looks, so there is a difference between making a character I am controling into an image I like and a side character.

Also,

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no
one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you
start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism
I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of
any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a 
massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are
inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob
is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.


I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a
relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about
him
although still a much more solid, well rounded character than
you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers
just find it difficult to relate to black characters.
I think that’s
one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games
and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video
games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA) 
Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be
this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to. 
Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more
interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more
popular than Jacob.
Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist
but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of
things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact
that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help
either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically
from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

You admit Jacob is unintersting, so you know why people dont realy like or care. Also play as a female shepard, talk to jacob, more of a reason there. And this to me is being counter productive, why cant I relate to him, because hes black ? I didnt know his skin made him develop a completely different personality I cant comprehend. My friends are black, I understand my friends, so skin colour dosent change my ability to understand people.
No he would be more popular if he was suave know why ? Because he would have a slightly more inteeresting personality. As for why people like kaiden more that lies with the people who play fem sheps, kaiden had a better romance, as a result he is liked more.


The thing is, no one likes him because of his personality, and it seems only few people here are actually seeing skin colour as a factor in his unpopularity (you are one), to me and most people if you judge by skin colour your an idiot, you judge a person based on their personality. Why cant you accept it Jacob had crap writing, and dialouge as a result he fails to interest people all he dose is complain e.g he says thane cant be trusted and is only loyal to his pay, jacob admits cerberus is bad but has no problem working for them, rather hypocritical.

#458
ebidebby

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Jacob's loyalty mission felt like untapped potential to me. He kept saying how he had already dealt with his daddy issues, but it seems like he's bottling things up, otherwise he wouldn't have even bothered following the lead. There was also untapped potential with Miranda, and I know there was some side game with them, but I think a little more party dialogue between the two of them would have helped.

Jacob is archetypal soldier - he pushes down his emotions and personality for what he thinks is the greater good. It makes him seem a little distant, but I do find it very realistic.

His romance is a little weird, sure, but they all kind of are... I didn't take offense to him saying that Miranda deserved a better man than him, I think he just meant that she was a little high maintenance, not that Shepard wasn't as good.

Modifié par ebidebby, 18 avril 2010 - 03:39 .


#459
Madi

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this isnt my name wrote...

Madi wrote...


Since you insist on continuing to say i said things i didn't say (which i highlighted) and apparently missed the main point i was trying to make let me just ask you a question. Do you think it's just a big coincidence that 99 % of lead characters are white?  (i.e. Nathan Drake from Uncharted, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, Marcus Phoenix from Gears of War,  Default Shepard FromMass Effect 1&2, etc.) How many black characters fall into that category? I think it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of lead video game charactersare white because the majority of the market is  made up of white males and the developers (who are mostly white males themselves)  understand that it's easier for them to relate better with human characters that look more like them. That's the main point I've been trying to make from the beginning.Not labeling anyone racist as some of you have incorrectly accused me of doing.

No, not a coincidence. But guess what Jacob isnt a lead character, therefroere I dont need to look like him, same goes for all other side characters, if I play a a custom char I make him/her look how I want, anyone else I could care less about looks, so there is a difference between making a character I am controling into an image I like and a side character.


So you admit that race is indeed a factor which was the point i was trying to make. Glad we agree. :D

#460
PTPR

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Madi wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Madi wrote...


Since you insist on continuing to say i said things i didn't say (which i highlighted) and apparently missed the main point i was trying to make let me just ask you a question. Do you think it's just a big coincidence that 99 % of lead characters are white?  (i.e. Nathan Drake from Uncharted, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, Marcus Phoenix from Gears of War,  Default Shepard FromMass Effect 1&2, etc.) How many black characters fall into that category? I think it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of lead video game charactersare white because the majority of the market is  made up of white males and the developers (who are mostly white males themselves)  understand that it's easier for them to relate better with human characters that look more like them. That's the main point I've been trying to make from the beginning.Not labeling anyone racist as some of you have incorrectly accused me of doing.

No, not a coincidence. But guess what Jacob isnt a lead character, therefroere I dont need to look like him, same goes for all other side characters, if I play a a custom char I make him/her look how I want, anyone else I could care less about looks, so there is a difference between making a character I am controling into an image I like and a side character.


So you admit that race is indeed a factor which was the point i was trying to make. Glad we agree. :D



That has more to do with the delevopers than the people who play the game.
(gasp) That means Bioware must be racist!Image IPB

#461
77boy84

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People like jacob. They just don't like him as much as the other characters because Jacob is just a regular soldier.

It's not because he's black (seriously what the ****), it's because he's not crazy like everyone else.

#462
Nightwriter

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No, it's because he's not interesting  like everyone else.

#463
Collider

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No one on the Normandy is crazy. Jack is pretty mellow for someone who Bioware called a psychopath. The only problem Jacob has is that he's boring and his romance is for the most part bad.

#464
Ray Joel Oh

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I really wish they had animated his face differently in the romance scene. Instead of being so solemn when he's saying his cheesy lines, it would have been more charming if he were smiling.

#465
Nightwriter

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I can't listen to anything Ben Stine says without falling asleep, he's so freaking boring.

It must mean I hate guys with glasses.


Image IPB


I'm such a prejudiced, hateful monster.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 18 avril 2010 - 10:36 .


#466
PTPR

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Nightwriter wrote...

I can't listen to anything Ben Stine says without falling asleep, he's so freaking boring.

It must mean I hate guys with glasses.


Image IPB


I'm such a prejudiced, hateful monster.

Image IPBI can never look at you your avatar again!

#467
Nightwriter

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PTPR wrote...

Image IPBI can never look at you your avatar again!


I know, I know... I'm so ashamed! :crying:

#468
Collider

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Nightwriter wrote...

I can't listen to anything Ben Stine says without falling asleep, he's so freaking boring.

It must mean I hate guys with glasses.


Image IPB


I'm such a prejudiced, hateful monster.

That's the guy who starred in that horrible Expelled movie :sick:

#469
Milician

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Why do people dislike him? Lets see here:

Your crew consists of:
A singing lizard
A violent scientifically created krogan
An asari who kills anything that even has a flicker of evil
The ultimate Biotic
An assassin
A robot (who is also one of your previous enemies)
A genetically perfect individual
A masked mysterious girl with interesting culture
An old friend conflicted by morality


And then you have Jacob, a simple solidier. Not a solidier who talks about great battles or reveals an interesting past. Just a normal man with normal attributes. Compared to the others, Jacob is very boring. Not saying he isn't a good character (personally I like having someone who isn't insane aboard) just he isn't that wild or crazy when you think about it.

#470
Nightwriter

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I've never seen Expelled. Is that the one where he plays a boring teacher or something?

#471
Ray Joel Oh

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Nightwriter wrote...

I've never seen Expelled. Is that the one where he plays a boring teacher or something?


No, it's his documentary about people discrediting the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools.  Like that's a bad thing.

#472
luk3us

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Jacob is an interesting as Kaidan was.



Except we don't get to kill Jacob off. ;(

#473
Nightwriter

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Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I've never seen Expelled. Is that the one where he plays a boring teacher or something?


No, it's his documentary about people discrediting the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools.  Like that's a bad thing.


Does this mean he's pro Intelligent Design? Seriously?

#474
Collider

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So it seems. Intelligent Design is pseduoscience...I am very disappointed in Mr. Stein.

#475
Apollo Rising

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Im starting to think alot of male gamers are just jealous of JT's mack skills. I made a femshep because I had to see what the big deal was about JT's romance...and you know what, Shepard was all over him. Now really..who's fault is that. Okay...in real life seduction situations I've never used the prize line when ready to bed a female but I dont really see where the controversy is. All I see are two grown military officers flirting with each other before they do the deed. Different people respond to different seduction techniques....Im really thinking that quite a few gamers on these boards live in a fantasy world when it comes to relationships and have no real experience. Some women actually respond to that kind of flirting .So weepy Thane and awkard Garrus's romances are ok but JT gets trashed...the smoothest of the bunch...get real!