1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Beholderess]

screwoffreg wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

The problem is a lot of characters' development seems weak because ME 2 was either romance or bust. There was no "friend" option like their was in DA. Jacob, if nothing else, seemed primed to become a good and loyal friend but instead turns out to be a flat caricature. The other characters also had dead ends if you weren't sleeping with them...

You couldn't sleep with Shale, Morrigan (if you were a woman) and several other characters but most had touching lines when you reached the friendship phase and all of them gave you a stirring speech when the last battle came.

Agreed.
Lol, even in ME1 it was possible to just remain friends, and your squadmates did not stop talking to you because of that.
Jack is the most frunstrating of ME2 bunch, by the way. It looks like there is simply no way to make her warm up to Shep unless you romance her. No way al all. I tend to play female characters, and my only male Shepard stayed true to Ash, so I've never seen Jack's "soft side" except on youtube. So for me she remains an annoying one.

Yeah, after a certain point she just thinks you are trying to have sex with her and tells you to get out.  Everyone is pretty much like that.  Tali says suit-sharing is an intimate thing, then turns around and awkwardly plays with a console, never speaking to you again.  

But at least Tali is nice to you before that point. You are already friends. When she PROUDLY adresses you as a Captain at the end of her loyalty mission, it worth much.
Jack, however, is nothing but thorns, snarls, insults and f-bombs unless you romance her. My male Shepard is a pure paragon with a pretty paladin-like behavior, and he'd like to help her - but not sleep with her(

[Brako Shepard]

Story wise I think Jacob is a great character. Its a nice change seeing a black male character with strong opinions and professionalism, rather than getting giddy at every other statement and bouncing around like Grand Master Flash. Its good to see BioWare are aware that not all black men talk and behave like celebrity rappers.



Although I hear its a different matter if your a female Shepard.



The only reason I don't pick Jacob alot though, is he falls down way to easy. If he makes the cut for Mass Effect 3. I definitely think he deserves to be a much stronger character. He is a puppy on the battlefield compared to the rest of the characters, but the experience from Mass Effect 2 should make him an excellent sqaud mate for Mass Effect 3.

[RayneMoon]

PTPR wrote...

Madi wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Madi wrote...


Since you insist on continuing to say i said things i didn't say (which i highlighted) and apparently missed the main point i was trying to make let me just ask you a question. Do you think it's just a big coincidence that 99 % of lead characters are white?  (i.e. Nathan Drake from Uncharted, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, Marcus Phoenix from Gears of War,  Default Shepard FromMass Effect 1&2, etc.) How many black characters fall into that category? I think it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of lead video game charactersare white because the majority of the market is  made up of white males and the developers (who are mostly white males themselves)  understand that it's easier for them to relate better with human characters that look more like them. That's the main point I've been trying to make from the beginning.Not labeling anyone racist as some of you have incorrectly accused me of doing.

No, not a coincidence. But guess what Jacob isnt a lead character, therefroere I dont need to look like him, same goes for all other side characters, if I play a a custom char I make him/her look how I want, anyone else I could care less about looks, so there is a difference between making a character I am controling into an image I like and a side character.

So you admit that race is indeed a factor which was the point i was trying to make. Glad we agree.

That has more to do with the delevopers than the people who play the game.
(gasp) That means Bioware must be racist!

Agreed.
Also, I don't know what Anti-Jacob stuff you saw before the game came out.
If some idiot in the forums made a racist joke that doesn't mean that the majority all of a sudden don't like Jacob because of his race.
You can't say that because you saw racist jokes about Jacob, that I'm assuming probably weren't serious, that now the majority of people who don't like him are racist like the people who made the jokes.
A few people speculated about Jacob sucking, some people brought up racist jokes. It's the internet, unfortunately it happens.
After the game came out, a lot of people complained of Jacob sucking.
In short...
10 People say Jacob will suck before the game comes out
3 Make jokes about him being black
79 People say Jacob is boring now that they have played the game
Even if those 3 people from before came back that still means that it isn't the majority.

[mosor]

For the record I like Jacob. I just hate how the media in general portray black characters as either gangsta or paragons of virtue. Nothing much in between like most people of every race In my opinion the best written characters are either shady characters with redeeming qualities or boy scouts who have some vices. The extremes of of either side are bland caricatures.

[Aniki_21]

PTPR wrote...

Madi wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Madi wrote...


Since you insist on continuing to say i said things i didn't say (which i highlighted) and apparently missed the main point i was trying to make let me just ask you a question. Do you think it's just a big coincidence that 99 % of lead characters are white?  (i.e. Nathan Drake from Uncharted, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, Marcus Phoenix from Gears of War,  Default Shepard FromMass Effect 1&2, etc.) How many black characters fall into that category? I think it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of lead video game charactersare white because the majority of the market is  made up of white males and the developers (who are mostly white males themselves)  understand that it's easier for them to relate better with human characters that look more like them. That's the main point I've been trying to make from the beginning.Not labeling anyone racist as some of you have incorrectly accused me of doing.

No, not a coincidence. But guess what Jacob isnt a lead character, therefroere I dont need to look like him, same goes for all other side characters, if I play a a custom char I make him/her look how I want, anyone else I could care less about looks, so there is a difference between making a character I am controling into an image I like and a side character.

So you admit that race is indeed a factor which was the point i was trying to make. Glad we agree.

That has more to do with the delevopers than the people who play the game.
(gasp) That means Bioware must be racist!

I think the idea is that they are doing that to appeal to the market majority. Kind of interesting that you would chooese to single out Bioware when 1. This applies to all developers across the board and 2. Most bioware games give you the option to choose what your characters ethnicity is. The only one I've played where you don't have a choice is Jade Empire and you have to be Asian Not white. Seems like Bioware is actually one of the better developers when it comes to ethnic diversity in their games.

[MoneyDeluxe]

He is indeed a great character in a certain sense that he does have a wide range of qualities that do set him apart from the other main cast quite a bit especially as a "temporally" employe of Cerberus he is almost a complete opposite of Miranda thereby adding a compelling contrast to the Cerbeus organization and a trustful guide for newcomers right from the beginning of the game.
Only adding to this fact are his attributes such as his nature to question the norm, a sense of justice and good morale intended on trying to work for the betterment of the whole even if it means opposing contemporary set of rules.Always struggling never to go too far.
Having said that his dialog is jarringly scripted and lacks any compelling emotions he just runs down his past in a straightforward stream similarly to Kaiden, not a good thing.
But truly the worst part and my only dire complaint with Jacob is his romance where you have FemShep acting literally like a **** when she talks to him and you have memetastic lines straight out of a porno film for the romantic scene.
I just can't get over that, particularly the fact that FemSheps lines regarding "hitting" on him are not really transparent. Even though I only tried to be nice she just starts making creepy advances, had to reload cause of that.
Honestly the romance just didn't feel right and I had a feeling throughout my attempt with it that it's just for the sake of having one with a male human and sadly for that reason it diminishes the character.IMO it would have been more constructive to go with the buddy theme it suits him perfectly.

Modifié par MoneyDeluxe, 19 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[MoneyDeluxe]

sorry double post

Modifié par MoneyDeluxe, 19 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[MrNose]

Jacob isn't popular with me for a few reasons. Biggest one? He's my least favourite character to play with. I do not find him useful at all. That means he never says any of the dialogue, and thus I bond with him less.

[Apollo Rising]

Nightwriter wrote...

Apollo Rising wrote...

Im starting to think alot of male gamers are just jealous of JT's mack skills. I made a femshep because I had to see what the big deal was about JT's romance...and you know what, Shepard was all over him. Now really..who's fault is that. Okay...in real life seduction situations I've never used the prize line when ready to bed a female but I dont really see where the controversy is. All I see are two grown military officers flirting with each other before they do the deed. Different people respond to different seduction techniques....Im really thinking that quite a few gamers on these boards live in a fantasy world when it comes to relationships and have no real experience. Some women actually respond to that kind of flirting .So weepy Thane and awkard Garrus's romances are ok but JT gets trashed...the smoothest of the bunch...get real!

As a woman, I can tell you that it was not smooth, nor skillful, nor a turn on.

It was just stomach turning. Give me Garrus or Thane any day.

I understand....that type of flirting is a turn off to you...but, what turns some off ,turns some on...thats all Im saying

[PTPR]

Aniki_21 wrote...

PTPR wrote...

That has more to do with the delevopers than the people who play the game.
(gasp) That means Bioware must be racist!

I think the idea is that they are doing that to appeal to the market majority. Kind of interesting that you would chooese to single out Bioware when 1. This applies to all developers across the board and 2. Most bioware games give you the option to choose what your characters ethnicity is. The only one I've played where you don't have a choice is Jade Empire and you have to be Asian Not white. Seems like Bioware is actually one of the better developers when it comes to ethnic diversity in their games.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

[Apollo Rising]

Felinu wrote...

I didn't dislike Jacob because of his race... in fact I didn't dislike *Jacob* at all.

He was great on the station.
We got the Normandy and I went to talk to him, then... my femshep apparently lost her freakin' mind.
I reloaded, thought I'd somehow caused this, only to find out there was no getting around it.
So, I ignored him until I had to speak to him to get his loyalty mission, then never spoke to him again.

It had nothing to do with Jacob, and everything to do with me being able control my character's reactions.
If that had happened with any other characters, they would have been ignored too.

Just sayin'.

Never really played femshep to completion before and I have to admit that she seemed like she was hot for everyone. I found it hilarious. But in all seriousness Shep does come across like she's in heat when it comes to JT no matter how you try to get around it , so I can understand why it would be unsettlling to some players. I was just happy my man was getting some love .

[FlyingBrickyard]

I like Jacob. Seems like a nice guy and someone I'd be more than willing to hang out with. He also strikes me as the type I could completely trust as a friend.



And he's about a billion times more interesting than Zaeed, IMO. At least Jacob as a character had some depth to him - there was stuff going on there that obviously worked to make him into the person he is.



Zaeed? Not so much. Flat, stereotypical cardboard cut-out of an old "Seen it and done it all before you were born and have outrageous stories about everything" Merc with an accent.

[RyrineaNara]

Apollo Rising wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Apollo Rising wrote...

Im starting to think alot of male gamers are just jealous of JT's mack skills. I made a femshep because I had to see what the big deal was about JT's romance...and you know what, Shepard was all over him. Now really..who's fault is that. Okay...in real life seduction situations I've never used the prize line when ready to bed a female but I dont really see where the controversy is. All I see are two grown military officers flirting with each other before they do the deed. Different people respond to different seduction techniques....Im really thinking that quite a few gamers on these boards live in a fantasy world when it comes to relationships and have no real experience. Some women actually respond to that kind of flirting .So weepy Thane and awkard Garrus's romances are ok but JT gets trashed...the smoothest of the bunch...get real!

As a woman, I can tell you that it was not smooth, nor skillful, nor a turn on.

It was just stomach turning. Give me Garrus or Thane any day.

I understand....that type of flirting is a turn off to you...but, what turns some off ,turns some on...thats all Im saying

You  need to get some romance skill yourself. No girl like the romance with Jacob he is the least proluar romance I have seen. 

[Apollo Rising]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Apollo Rising wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Apollo Rising wrote...

Im starting to think alot of male gamers are just jealous of JT's mack skills. I made a femshep because I had to see what the big deal was about JT's romance...and you know what, Shepard was all over him. Now really..who's fault is that. Okay...in real life seduction situations I've never used the prize line when ready to bed a female but I dont really see where the controversy is. All I see are two grown military officers flirting with each other before they do the deed. Different people respond to different seduction techniques....Im really thinking that quite a few gamers on these boards live in a fantasy world when it comes to relationships and have no real experience. Some women actually respond to that kind of flirting .So weepy Thane and awkard Garrus's romances are ok but JT gets trashed...the smoothest of the bunch...get real!

As a woman, I can tell you that it was not smooth, nor skillful, nor a turn on.

It was just stomach turning. Give me Garrus or Thane any day.

I understand....that type of flirting is a turn off to you...but, what turns some off ,turns some on...thats all Im saying

You  need to get some romance skill yourself. No girl like the romance with Jacob he is the least proluar romance I have seen. 

Sweetheart I've been married for 8 years with 2 kids...my romance skills are not lacking. Sorry I touched a nerve.

[Nightwriter]

Apollo Rising wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Apollo Rising wrote...

Im starting to think alot of male gamers are just jealous of JT's mack skills. I made a femshep because I had to see what the big deal was about JT's romance...and you know what, Shepard was all over him. Now really..who's fault is that. Okay...in real life seduction situations I've never used the prize line when ready to bed a female but I dont really see where the controversy is. All I see are two grown military officers flirting with each other before they do the deed. Different people respond to different seduction techniques....Im really thinking that quite a few gamers on these boards live in a fantasy world when it comes to relationships and have no real experience. Some women actually respond to that kind of flirting .So weepy Thane and awkard Garrus's romances are ok but JT gets trashed...the smoothest of the bunch...get real!

As a woman, I can tell you that it was not smooth, nor skillful, nor a turn on.

It was just stomach turning. Give me Garrus or Thane any day.

I understand....that type of flirting is a turn off to you...but, what turns some off ,turns some on...thats all Im saying

Lol. Well, there's no accounting for taste.

I think it's worth noting, however, that I have yet to see a single person on these entire forums, woman or otherwise, who has thought Jacob's come ons were anything other than ridiculous and laughable.

[Keldon Northwind]

FlyingBrickyard wrote...

I like Jacob. Seems like a nice guy and someone I'd be more than willing to hang out with. He also strikes me as the type I could completely trust as a friend.

And he's about a billion times more interesting than Zaeed, IMO. At least Jacob as a character had some depth to him - there was stuff going on there that obviously worked to make him into the person he is.

Zaeed? Not so much. Flat, stereotypical cardboard cut-out of an old "Seen it and done it all before you were born and have outrageous stories about everything" Merc with an accent.

Except that Zaeed is ten times more badass than Jacob will ever be.

The only time I talk to Jacob is to get the Armour Upgrade for Normandy and when it's time to do his Loyalty mission. Other than that , he can rot in the Armoury for all I care.

Modifié par Keldon Northwind, 19 avril 2010 - 11:13 .

[FlyingBrickyard]

Zaeed's definitely good at what he does - which is cause mayhem for money.



Still boring as hell though, at least to me. I've seen the stereotype a million times before, and he just doesn't bring anything new to the table as a character. I think the VA did a fine job with the lines and delivery, I just don't think he had much to work with.



I think I read somewhere that Zaeed was basically built over a span of 12 weeks. It didn't surprise me when I heard that, because he pretty much feels like that was the case.



Given some more time to develop some depth and I think Zaeed could have been far more interesting, but as it stands I feel like he's the least compelling character in the game. Or at least, among the crew. Maybe it was the lack of a dialogue wheel that contributed, but EDI and Gardner were a lot more entertaining to me. Even the conversations with Kelly were more interesting. At least she would occasionally surprise you even if her conversation tree only went a couple of branches deep.



Most of the time I found myself playing with the trash compactor and garbage cubes to keep from being bored out of my mind while Zaeed droned on. It's not like I even planned it, I just often found myself there hitting the button and then running for a window to watch the debris float by before I really even realized Zaeed was still rambling on.



Not that I spent a whole lot of time talking to Jacob either - he was up there with Garrus and his "calibrations" for lack of things to say, but at least I didn't find myself drifting off and idly playing with objects in the room to kill time whenever Jacob was talking.



Zaeed had some potential I think, but they just never bothered to develop him. Within the first 3 minutes of meeting the guy you've pretty much got him all figured out. Forget any sort of Zaeed plot twist, the guy's story didn't even have a gentle curve.

[Jackal904]

Beholderess wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

The problem is a lot of characters' development seems weak because ME 2 was either romance or bust. There was no "friend" option like their was in DA. Jacob, if nothing else, seemed primed to become a good and loyal friend but instead turns out to be a flat caricature. The other characters also had dead ends if you weren't sleeping with them...

You couldn't sleep with Shale, Morrigan (if you were a woman) and several other characters but most had touching lines when you reached the friendship phase and all of them gave you a stirring speech when the last battle came.

Agreed.
Lol, even in ME1 it was possible to just remain friends, and your squadmates did not stop talking to you because of that.
Jack is the most frunstrating of ME2 bunch, by the way. It looks like there is simply no way to make her warm up to Shep unless you romance her. No way al all. I tend to play female characters, and my only male Shepard stayed true to Ash, so I've never seen Jack's "soft side" except on youtube. So for me she remains an annoying one.

Yeah, after a certain point she just thinks you are trying to have sex with her and tells you to get out.  Everyone is pretty much like that.  Tali says suit-sharing is an intimate thing, then turns around and awkwardly plays with a console, never speaking to you again.  

But at least Tali is nice to you before that point. You are already friends. When she PROUDLY adresses you as a Captain at the end of her loyalty mission, it worth much.
Jack, however, is nothing but thorns, snarls, insults and f-bombs unless you romance her. My male Shepard is a pure paragon with a pretty paladin-like behavior, and he'd like to help her - but not sleep with her(

I'd blame BioWare for that, not the character. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it would have been nice to be able to develope friend-level relationships with squadmates than just 'sex or gtfo.'

[Aniki_21]

Jackal904 wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

The problem is a lot of characters' development seems weak because ME 2 was either romance or bust. There was no "friend" option like their was in DA. Jacob, if nothing else, seemed primed to become a good and loyal friend but instead turns out to be a flat caricature. The other characters also had dead ends if you weren't sleeping with them...

You couldn't sleep with Shale, Morrigan (if you were a woman) and several other characters but most had touching lines when you reached the friendship phase and all of them gave you a stirring speech when the last battle came.

Agreed.
Lol, even in ME1 it was possible to just remain friends, and your squadmates did not stop talking to you because of that.
Jack is the most frunstrating of ME2 bunch, by the way. It looks like there is simply no way to make her warm up to Shep unless you romance her. No way al all. I tend to play female characters, and my only male Shepard stayed true to Ash, so I've never seen Jack's "soft side" except on youtube. So for me she remains an annoying one.

Yeah, after a certain point she just thinks you are trying to have sex with her and tells you to get out.  Everyone is pretty much like that.  Tali says suit-sharing is an intimate thing, then turns around and awkwardly plays with a console, never speaking to you again.  

But at least Tali is nice to you before that point. You are already friends. When she PROUDLY adresses you as a Captain at the end of her loyalty mission, it worth much.
Jack, however, is nothing but thorns, snarls, insults and f-bombs unless you romance her. My male Shepard is a pure paragon with a pretty paladin-like behavior, and he'd like to help her - but not sleep with her(

I'd blame BioWare for that, not the character. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it would have been nice to be able to develope friend-level relationships with squadmates than just 'sex or gtfo.'

Well you can develope frend level relationships with squadmates but it's usually weird with the ones who are romance options. Jacob  is an obvious example of this for female Shepards.

[Nazomi]

FlyingBrickyard wrote...

Zaeed's definitely good at what he does - which is cause mayhem for money.

Still boring as hell though, at least to me. I've seen the stereotype a million times before, and he just doesn't bring anything new to the table as a character. I think the VA did a fine job with the lines and delivery, I just don't think he had much to work with.

I think I read somewhere that Zaeed was basically built over a span of 12 weeks. It didn't surprise me when I heard that, because he pretty much feels like that was the case.

Given some more time to develop some depth and I think Zaeed could have been far more interesting, but as it stands I feel like he's the least compelling character in the game. Or at least, among the crew. Maybe it was the lack of a dialogue wheel that contributed, but EDI and Gardner were a lot more entertaining to me. Even the conversations with Kelly were more interesting. At least she would occasionally surprise you even if her conversation tree only went a couple of branches deep.

Most of the time I found myself playing with the trash compactor and garbage cubes to keep from being bored out of my mind while Zaeed droned on. It's not like I even planned it, I just often found myself there hitting the button and then running for a window to watch the debris float by before I really even realized Zaeed was still rambling on.

Not that I spent a whole lot of time talking to Jacob either - he was up there with Garrus and his "calibrations" for lack of things to say, but at least I didn't find myself drifting off and idly playing with objects in the room to kill time whenever Jacob was talking.

Zaeed had some potential I think, but they just never bothered to develop him. Within the first 3 minutes of meeting the guy you've pretty much got him all figured out. Forget any sort of Zaeed plot twist, the guy's story didn't even have a gentle curve.

Like Zaeed's accent but he was ultimately very shallow of a character and felt like an unnecesarry addition. Strangely he's still more popular than Jacob. <_<

[Canned Bullets]

Its just that he doesn't really have much of a personality, he's not like Garrus or Wrex who have a more interesting background.

[Aniki_21]

Okay i just went back and played through the game and as a male Shepard it just doesn't make any sense at all to me why he isn't liked. It's definitely awkward talking to him as fem Shepard but I he's just a normal cool guy when you're a guy Shepard. Weird. This extreme dislike of Jacob makes even less sense to me now.

[PTPR]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Aniki_21]

PTPR wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

PTPR wrote...

That has more to do with the delevopers than the people who play the game.
(gasp) That means Bioware must be racist!

I think the idea is that they are doing that to appeal to the market majority. Kind of interesting that you would chooese to single out Bioware when 1. This applies to all developers across the board and 2. Most bioware games give you the option to choose what your characters ethnicity is. The only one I've played where you don't have a choice is Jade Empire and you have to be Asian Not white. Seems like Bioware is actually one of the better developers when it comes to ethnic diversity in their games.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

Yeah you were being sarcastic but not in the way you are suggesting. You're suggesing Bioware is like every other game developer when they aren't

[Taritu]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Here's the thing about Jacob vs. the other characters: it's not that we glomp onto WHINING and EMOTIONAL BAGGAGE and thus hate Jacob because he is *gasp* normal. It's that we want a character hook. Something that we can use to describe a character, or sum them up, or even just point out an aspect of their character. Sometimes, yes, this can be angst or emotional baggage. Other times it can just be a weird quirk or habit (e.g. Mordin's speaking patterns, his love of singing). Hooks like these help us grasp the character and have something to pin on them, for lack of a better word.

Take Kaidan, for example. Like him or hate him, you have to admit that he has OODLES of character hooks. He gets headaches. He went to Jump Zero. He had a bad encounter with a turian instructor that makes him afraid of his own strength. He is somewhat sexually conservative (doesn't like to kiss and tell, turns down a threesome). He tries to get over his past and not whine about it. He's respectful. He doesn't rush into stuff. You can *describe* Kaidan until the cows come home.

In contrast, I feel l can't really *describe* Jacob anywhere near to the same degree. He's an ex-Alliance soldier... and... um... he had issues with his father years ago? He may or may not have had a thing with Miranda? Really, that's about it. There's not a lot of stuff you can point to and say, "here is this thing about Jacob." He doesn't talk much about himself so we don't really know much about him, therefore there's not a lot we can really say about him.

You know what I wish? That Bioware had given Jacob a hobby that he got really excited about. Every now and again, you'd come into the armory and he'd have just finished watching, I dunno, Zero G Football, and he starts talking about his favorite team, the Volus Clanbusters ("You'd think volus would suck at football. Little bastards can be a real pain when they want to be.") He could talk about how he wanted to be a zero G football player when he was younger, but didn't have the skills so decided to join the Alliance instead so he could travel the world, blah blah blah. Stuff like this would let us grasp his character and describe him a lot better. Rather than, "Jacob is... um... nice, I guess?" we could say, "Jacob is a football fanatic who used to play in minor league, but he still likes watching it on extranet."

Best post in the thread.