1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Beholderess]

Darkhour wrote...

Don't kid yourself. They don't like their white women femshep being forced to flirt with a ********.

Hmm, how about disliking that femshep is forced to flirt at all? Not sure about you, but I prefer my female characters to act in a more dignified manner.

[Beholderess]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Some People dislike Jacob because:

- Hes black
- He doesn't fit a standard black stereotype
- He is boring
- He is a bad romance option
- He is weak/useless in combat

My point is that there are MANY reasons why many would dislike Jacob. There is no one reason for all. For some it can be one of those reasons I mentioned, it can be a combination, it can be all of them, or it can be none and something different.

So when I say that race can be a factor, I'm not saying that for EVERYONE who dislikes Jacob, it is because of his race. No, I'm just saying that it is one possibility, just like him being weak in combat is one, and a bad romance is another. For you, race might not be the reason why you dislike Jacob, but you are not everyone and there are some people (They wont admit it of course, who will?) who dislikes Jacob because he is black or he isnt a black stereotype.

I'm just throwing out a possibility. I'm not saying it IS the reason, I'm just saying it is ONE of the reasons for some.

People throw in the "Well I disliked Kaiden because he was boring....and hes white" aspect. That is true, but compare Kaiden's popularity before ME1's launch to Jacob's popularity before ME2's launch, and you'll find that Kaiden had a larger following, popularity, and respect compared to Jacob's. And they both recieved around the same amount of marketing, hell, Jacob even had an IPhone game.

Kinda makes you think....

You might have a point here, though I wouldn't place 1 and 2 so high in priority. Perhaps if he was handsome, some of his flaws could be overlooked, sure. But it wouldn't magically make those flaws disappear. And if he was more interesting to interact with, then whatever impact his color could make would be mitigated.

So, even if his blackess affects some people's perseptions, it doesn't mean that Jacob is not boring. Whiteness would not suddenly make him the most popular squad member=)

[Collider]

People will see stereotypes in everything.

[Polka14]

Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

[Aniki_21]

Beholderess wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Some People dislike Jacob because:

- Hes black
- He doesn't fit a standard black stereotype
- He is boring
- He is a bad romance option
- He is weak/useless in combat

My point is that there are MANY reasons why many would dislike Jacob. There is no one reason for all. For some it can be one of those reasons I mentioned, it can be a combination, it can be all of them, or it can be none and something different.

So when I say that race can be a factor, I'm not saying that for EVERYONE who dislikes Jacob, it is because of his race. No, I'm just saying that it is one possibility, just like him being weak in combat is one, and a bad romance is another. For you, race might not be the reason why you dislike Jacob, but you are not everyone and there are some people (They wont admit it of course, who will?) who dislikes Jacob because he is black or he isnt a black stereotype.

I'm just throwing out a possibility. I'm not saying it IS the reason, I'm just saying it is ONE of the reasons for some.

People throw in the "Well I disliked Kaiden because he was boring....and hes white" aspect. That is true, but compare Kaiden's popularity before ME1's launch to Jacob's popularity before ME2's launch, and you'll find that Kaiden had a larger following, popularity, and respect compared to Jacob's. And they both recieved around the same amount of marketing, hell, Jacob even had an IPhone game.

Kinda makes you think....

You might have a point here, though I wouldn't place 1 and 2 so high in priority. Perhaps if he was handsome, some of his flaws could be overlooked, sure. But it wouldn't magically make those flaws disappear. And if he was more interesting to interact with, then whatever impact his color could make would be mitigated.

So, even if his blackess affects some people's perseptions, it doesn't mean that Jacob is not boring. Whiteness would not suddenly make him the most popular squad member=)

Hey! Who are you to say he isn't handsome? Kasumi and Mirnda obviously thought otherwise.

http://images3.wikia...acob_Taylor.png

Modifié par Aniki_21, 27 avril 2010 - 08:26 .

[Nivenus]

I must be crazy, but I actually like Jacob.

[Collider]

Most of the Jacob dislike comes from his romance, Nivenus. Jacob's a nice guy, it's hard to hate him genuinely. But he's disliked because he's boring and his romance is awful.

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

Most of the Jacob dislike comes from his romance, Nivenus. Jacob's a nice guy, it's hard to hate him genuinely. But he's disliked because he's boring and his romance is awful.

Well, he does love his prize.

Actually, I've seen some of the dialogue and I can say that it is... awkwardly written to say the least. I'm not sure if it's really awful per se. But it certainly isn't very romantic.

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

Most of the Jacob dislike comes from his romance, Nivenus. Jacob's a nice guy, it's hard to hate him genuinely. But he's disliked because he's boring and his romance is awful.

Well, he does love his prize.

Actually, I've seen some of the dialogue and I can say that it is... awkwardly written to say the least. I'm not sure if it's really awful per se. But it certainly isn't very romantic.

Jacob acts like some creepy predator in the romance scene. It just seems uncharacteristic for him, too. It may have been better for him to keep his mouth shut like in Miranda's romance scene.

[Darkhour]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

[Stinkface27]

I like Jacob much more than I like Kaiden, but I know I'm in the minority there.



I find him a lot more interesting. Interesting, to me, is about the only factor that plays a part in how much I like or dislike a character. Personally, I think Jacob would have been a perfectly acceptable LI too..had it not been for the fact that Garrus and Thane are infinitely more *interesting* - you see, it all comes back to the interesting word.

[Phex]

I like Jacob... I like how he speaks his mind with everything, but when I tried to get personal with him he just seemed like he wasn't interested in the least. So I didn't go pushing his buttons more.



The only thing that kinda creep me out about him are his teeth which just look... Weird.

[Darkhour]

Polka14 wrote...

Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******. 

Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.

[ROD525]

Darkhour wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******. 

Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.

I dont believe Bioware is racist, not in the least. I cant think of too many non-stereotypical black men in games...I applaud Bioware for giving me a black man that I can identify with who is not acting like a class clown or court jester. I did get slightly vexxed though when I saw that Jacob did not get a commercial video like the others and he's the first guy you run into? That wasn't cool.

[adriano_c]

I think it's matter of disinterest more so than dislike with Jacob. There really is nothing that "stands out" or grabs attention in terms of personality or story with him (sharply contrasts with just about every other outlandish party member in ME2). Even his loyalty mission, for example, wasn't really about him, rather his father's crazy antics. If anything, they should have explored those ramifications as a way of giving him more depth. Instead, they kind of swept it under the rug, and that was that.



It's a shame, too, as from the earliest scenes he started out quite promising...then kind of fizzled, almost as if he became an afterthought for the writers.



Either way, at least he's more worthwhile than Alenko, Bioware's dullest character to date.

[kregano]

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

Either you are trolling or you're heavily biased against white people. I know plenty of white people who aren't racist.

[Darkhour]

kregano wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

You're heavily biased against white people.

What rational non-white person wouldn't? You're all racist afterall.

Do you know why there is still segregation 40 years after segregation was abolished?

[Icinix]

The only racism I've seen so far is from people trying to insert racism where there was none.

Claiming all white people are racist, is extraordinarily racist.
There is still segregation, you're right, but it's because of comments like that and attitudes like that that continues to breed that segregation.  I'm not saying it's the only cause, but it certainly doesn't help in any way.

Modifié par Icinix, 27 avril 2010 - 01:58 .

[Aniki_21]

Icinix wrote...

The only racism I've seen so far is from people trying to insert racism where there was none.

Claiming all white people are racist, is extraordinarily racist.
There is still segregation, you're right, but it's because of comments like that and attitudes like that that continues to breed that segregation.  I'm not saying it's the only cause, but it certainly doesn't help in any way.

Are you serious? It's pretty obvious that posts just like Darkhour's above you are troll posts.

[Nazomi]

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

Most of the Jacob dislike comes from his romance, Nivenus. Jacob's a nice guy, it's hard to hate him genuinely. But he's disliked because he's boring and his romance is awful.

Well, he does love his prize.

Actually, I've seen some of the dialogue and I can say that it is... awkwardly written to say the least. I'm not sure if it's really awful per se. But it certainly isn't very romantic.

Jacob acts like some creepy predator in the romance scene. It just seems uncharacteristic for him, too. It may have been better for him to keep his mouth shut like in Miranda's romance scene.

I do admit that the final romance scene between him and shepard does seem out of character for him but I don't get why so many people keep harping on that "prize" line like that's so outrageous or offensive. He's clearly just trying to be "smooth"

[Polka14]

Darkhour wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******. 

Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.

Reported for racism.

[Vegielamb]

I see Kaiden, Jacob and Tali (in ME2) as being equally boring, actually. Kaiden had a back story that was marginally interesting, but nothing ever came of it. Jacob didn't really feel like he had much of a back story, which was a mistake. I thought his loyalty mission was just crap and, frankly, disrespectful. Bioware could have done much better there. Tali just felt like she was added due to her popularity; she really didn't add anything to game as a whole, unlike Garrus.

When I first met Jacob, I really took an instant liking to him, but once he gets aboard the Normandy, as others have mentioned his personality changes for no apparent reason. He also won't talk about it. I suspect it's meant to be some sort of inferiority complex, but who can tell?

On the flipside, I hated Ashley at first, but the conversations with her changed my mind; she's not as slow and close minded as she appears at first, and going through the story changes her. She also didn't turn into a religious zealot as I feared.  That's enough reason for me to like her. I also thought Wrex would end up being the stereotypical brute, but he actually ended up being more complex than I expected. Same goes for Thane (who I fear was just a ninja stereotype).

I do agree that Jacob is stereotyped into a pop culture black person which doesn’t help matters. Of course, Miranda is stereotype rich, white girl complete with daddy issues and self-hate.

[Nazomi]

Polka14 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******. 

Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.

Reported for racism.

It's called trolling

[onelifecrisis]

I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the OP for finally starting this discussion. I'll come back when I have time to read 25 pages (which I will, at some point).

In the meantime, here's my 2p:

I'm white, but don't consider myself racist. Still, I didn't like Jacob for two reasons: first and foremost, all the conversations between him and male shep seemed awkward and wierd and, well, slightly gay (yes, that makes me uncomfortable - don't make an issue of it in this thread please). This didn't make any sense until I played as femshep and realised that those scenes were designed as a lead-up to a femshep romance. It's strange, though, that I didn't get the same sense from the Garrus and Thane conversations. They are both romance options, yet their conversations with male shep seemed natural enough to me.

The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 avril 2010 - 05:16 .

[MoneyDeluxe]

Darkhour wrote...

Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******. 

Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.


What rational non-white person wouldn't? You're
all racist
afterall.

Do you know why there is still
segregation 40
years after segregation was abolished?

THEY SEE ME TROLLIN'

Personally I've made myself clear already but I'll be happy to repeat it.
Jacob is a interesting character with a lot of room for depth, that isn't the problem.The problem is that the writers have not emphasised enough on these qualities to give the character a truly unique essence.Instead he mostly keeps to himself and occasionally digresses on a couple of anecdotes of his past, not very engaging.

As it stands now he's a good intendend, morale upstanding operative <--- that just isn't enough to set him apart from the very varied and colorful(no pun intended) main cast of the crew.

This is not helped by the fact that when the chance of a compelling romance with him comes up it is missed to uninteresting and outright cheesy dialog.
To sum this case up in one phrase for Jacob I would say: "Missed potential".

Modifié par MoneyDeluxe, 27 avril 2010 - 05:10 .