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[Nostradamoose]

Darkhour wrote...

kregano wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

You're heavily biased against white people.

What rational non-white person wouldn't? You're all racist afterall.

Do you know why there is still segregation 40 years after segregation was abolished?

Yet, I'm white, 1/8 Amerindian, 1/8 Irish and 3/4 French Canadian and I'm a fan of Jacob...

Therefore I am racist...  Oh wow... it all makes sense now.

About that Segregation thing, yea it still exists in some places about the skin color. But barely where I am.

Modifié par Nostradamoose, 27 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[Nazomi]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the OP for finally starting this discussion. I'll come back when I have time to read 25 pages (which I will, at some point).

In the meantime, here's my 2p:

I'm white, but don't consider myself racist. Still, I didn't like Jacob for two reasons: first and foremost, all the conversations between him and male shep seemed awkward and wierd and, well, slightly gay (yes, that makes me uncomfortable - don't make an issue of it in this thread please). This didn't make any sense until I played as femshep and realised that those scenes were designed as a lead-up to a femshep romance. It's strange, though, that I didn't get the same sense from the Garrus and Thane conversations. They are both romance options, yet their conversations with male shep seemed natural enough to me.

The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

There's only one conversation where it feels a "slightly" weird as a male shepard talking to him. When you Shepard says he tells him to relax because he just wants to know what "makes him tick" and asking him if he as anyone waiting for him at home. But still honestly I felt more akward talking to Kaden in Mass Effect 1.

[Nostradamoose]

Nazomi wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the OP for finally starting this discussion. I'll come back when I have time to read 25 pages (which I will, at some point).

In the meantime, here's my 2p:

I'm white, but don't consider myself racist. Still, I didn't like Jacob for two reasons: first and foremost, all the conversations between him and male shep seemed awkward and wierd and, well, slightly gay (yes, that makes me uncomfortable - don't make an issue of it in this thread please). This didn't make any sense until I played as femshep and realised that those scenes were designed as a lead-up to a femshep romance. It's strange, though, that I didn't get the same sense from the Garrus and Thane conversations. They are both romance options, yet their conversations with male shep seemed natural enough to me.

The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

There's only one conversation where it feels a "slightly" weird as a male shepard talking to him. When you Shepard says he tells him to relax because he just wants to know what "makes him tick" and asking him if he as anyone waiting for him at home. But still honestly I felt more akward talking to Kaden in Mass Effect 1.

kaidan was planned originally for a gaymance as well

[onelifecrisis]

Nazomi wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the OP for finally starting this discussion. I'll come back when I have time to read 25 pages (which I will, at some point).

In the meantime, here's my 2p:

I'm white, but don't consider myself racist. Still, I didn't like Jacob for two reasons: first and foremost, all the conversations between him and male shep seemed awkward and wierd and, well, slightly gay (yes, that makes me uncomfortable - don't make an issue of it in this thread please). This didn't make any sense until I played as femshep and realised that those scenes were designed as a lead-up to a femshep romance. It's strange, though, that I didn't get the same sense from the Garrus and Thane conversations. They are both romance options, yet their conversations with male shep seemed natural enough to me.

The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

There's only one conversation where it feels a "slightly" weird as a male shepard talking to him. When you Shepard says he tells him to relax because he just wants to know what "makes him tick" and asking him if he as anyone waiting for him at home. But still honestly I felt more akward talking to Kaden in Mass Effect 1.

TBH I never much talked to Kaiden in ME1 so I can't comment on that... but for me almost all the conversations with Jacob were a bit odd. It was more to do with Shepard's behaviour than Jacob's. The way he (Shepard) stands is kind of weird. And dialogue options like "you're still in great shape" were unexpected on my first play through. But then I saw femshep in the same stance, and talking in a sultry voice, and I realised why it had seemed odd with male shep.

[MoneyDeluxe]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the OP for finally starting this discussion. I'll come back when I have time to read 25 pages (which I will, at some point).

In the meantime, here's my 2p:

I'm white, but don't consider myself racist. Still, I didn't like Jacob for two reasons: first and foremost, all the conversations between him and male shep seemed awkward and wierd and, well, slightly gay (yes, that makes me uncomfortable - don't make an issue of it in this thread please). This didn't make any sense until I played as femshep and realised that those scenes were designed as a lead-up to a femshep romance. It's strange, though, that I didn't get the same sense from the Garrus and Thane conversations. They are both romance options, yet their conversations with male shep seemed natural enough to me.
.

There's only one conversation where it feels a "slightly" weird as a male shepard talking to him. When you Shepard says he tells him to relax because he just wants to know what "makes him tick" and asking him if he as anyone waiting for him at home. But still honestly I felt more akward talking to Kaden in Mass Effect 1.

TBH I never much talked to Kaiden in ME1 so I can't comment on that... but for me almost all the conversations with Jacob were a bit odd. It was more to do with Shepard's behaviour than Jacob's. The way he (Shepard) stands is kind of weird. And dialogue options like "you're still in great shape" were unexpected on my first play through. But then I saw femshep in the same stance, and talking in a sultry voice, and I realised why it had seemed odd with male shep.

This specific issue seems to say a lot more ambiguous stuff about you guys as opposed to the scene itself.

[MajesticJazz]

Aniki_21 wrote...



Agreed. You make some great points. Most people who continute to scoff at the suggestion keep ignoring the fact that Jacob wasn't particularly liked before the game ever came out.

Exactly! I'm going to say it again, many want to run to the idea that Jacob had a bad romance, Jacob was dull, Jacob was creepy and all that mess as to why people dislike Jacob. Okay, okay I'll buy that because they played the game so they have some insight into the character. BUT, what about BEFORE ME2 came out? There were people who disliked Jacob and he got a bunch of negative attention. Mind you this is before the game came out so they had no insight into his romance or personality....but yet they disliked him....funny how nobody has came out to explain that.

Jackal904 wrote...





That is so untrue and it's idiotic to think that. You probably one of those people who say any negativity towards a black person is because of racism.



Jacob's lack of popularity has absolutely nothing to do with his race. If you cannot see the true reason why he is unpopular, then you are one dense mother ****er.

How are you so 100% sure that it has nothing to do with race for some people? It might not have anything to do with race for you, but how do you know EVERYONE's intentions? How do you know what EVERYONE else is thinking? You don't, but yet you dismiss the notion of racism completely?



I'm black, and I'm not one of those people who believe anything negative towards blacks = racism. But I am not an Uncle Tom. I'm not going to sit back and not speak my mind because I don't want to create a bad image for white people. Call me idiotic or whatever name you have for me, please do. But remember this, no matter what you say or try to do, you are not going to stop me from expressing my views, beliefs, and opinions. If I believe that something might have some racial indications to it, I'm going to express my opinions. You might or might not agree, but that is not my concern. You can call me whateve you want, but that will not stop me. You can say I'm playing the race card, but that is not going to yield me. If you have a problem with that, then you can either ignore my comments or just ignore my comments. Either way, it does no damage to me.

Polka14 wrote...



Why are we still discussing this nonsense? Race does not play a factor with the player's level of interest in jacob. Only the way the character is portrayed. Jacob is an extremely distant character and has normally rejected my Shepard's attempts at a conversation.

Again, I'm still discussing thise "nonsense" because this nonsense is still a part of our society. Like I said, race might not be a factor for you, but do not act like it is not a factor for everyone else. This is including blacks, whites, asians, hispanics etc....

Collider wrote...



Most of the Jacob dislike comes from his romance, Nivenus. Jacob's a nice guy, it's hard to hate him genuinely. But he's disliked because he's boring and his romance is awful.

True, but what about before the game came out and Jacob had a lot of dislike and disrespect? People didn't play the game then so they had no idea about him being boring or having an awful romance. Care to explain that?

Darkhour wrote...



Jacob was hated before the game came out for no other reason than that he was too african looking. People wanted a lighter skinned bald headed black guy like in the ipod game. You know, someone that looked "safe" and wouldn't scare grandma... if there had to be a ******.



Bioware wouldn't even acknowledge that the "male lead" existed. EVERYONE had a video except Jacob. Was Jacob even in a background of a video? Even Garrus, who was supposed to be a surprise, got a video (his recruitment level). Bioware employees are all racist!!! No surprise there. They're a bunch of white people.

I hinted at this before. In the Iphone game, he had lighter skin and featured European details and nobody had a problem, just like nobody has a problem with Captain/Counsular/Admiral Anderson. He is black, but his features are others besides just African. With Jacob, he is clearly a person of African decent, dark skin, coarse hair, full lips etc....far from the appearance of Anderson. Am I saying that Jacob's darker skin tone is the issue, no, but it is for some. Look at the movie industry for example, black actors/actresses who have lighter skin tend to be more popular with whites than the darker skinned ones. Hence Will Smith, Beyonce, Halle Berry etc....but that is another topic for another place....



But I would not call Bioware racist. Yes, they are mainly white males (a few females), but they are not racist

onelifecrisis wrote...





The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

Lol, I found it kinda interesting that the black guy just happened to have "missing father" problems. ALSO, I found it kinda interesting that the black guy just happened to be the first to volunteer for the "suicide" role in the suicide mission. How did Jacob say it? "Sounds like a suicide mission, I volunteer". That was kinda interesting considering that black men in movies who play smaller roles are always either the first to die, or they volunteer/sacrifice themselves to save the others. Am I saying Bioware did that on purpose? No, but it was kinda interesting to say atleast....







------------

One theme that I am seeing in this thread is a theme that exist in real life. Blacks are quick to call racism while whites are quick to dismiss racism. Sometimes blacks call racism when there is an issue or racism while sometimes blacks call racism when there isn't an issue of race, but they either want to believe so or they just don't understand the situation.



Same with whites. Sometimes whites would dismiss racism because there really isnt an issue of race. However, sometimes whites would dismiss racism when there really is an issue of race but because whites are tired of being blamed for racism, the natural reaction is to dismiss it, even if race is clearly evident.

[Nazomi]

Nicely put Majestic

[LostInSanity]

This has probably been said already but I alway love that whenever a white person dislikes or finds a non-white uninteresting the only possable reason is because said person is not white.

classic.

[onelifecrisis]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Exactly! I'm going to say it again, many want to run to the idea that Jacob had a bad romance, Jacob was dull, Jacob was creepy and all that mess as to why people dislike Jacob. Okay, okay I'll buy that because they played the game so they have some insight into the character. BUT, what about BEFORE ME2 came out? There were people who disliked Jacob and he got a bunch of negative attention. Mind you this is before the game came out so they had no insight into his romance or personality....but yet they disliked him....funny how nobody has came out to explain that.

I hinted at this before. In the Iphone game, he had lighter skin and featured European details and nobody had a problem, just like nobody has a problem with Captain/Counsular/Admiral Anderson. He is black, but his features are others besides just African. With Jacob, he is clearly a person of African decent, dark skin, coarse hair, full lips etc....far from the appearance of Anderson. Am I saying that Jacob's darker skin tone is the issue, no, but it is for some. Look at the movie industry for example, black actors/actresses who have lighter skin tend to be more popular with whites than the darker skinned ones. Hence Will Smith, Beyonce, Halle Berry etc....but that is another topic for another place....

Hrm... dark skin and full lips didn't stop Wesley Snipes from being awesome as a vampire killer, or Morgan Freeman from being awesome in almost everything he's ever done. I didn't see any pre-release promotional material for ME2, nor did I see any discussions in forums about Jacob (I'm a newcomer to the whole BW scene actually) but it seems to me that you can't get away from the fact that Jacob is a dull character with a dull loyalty mission which feels half-arsed in it's execution. The fact that there are so many bugs in that mission is testament, I think, to the amount of effort that was put into it - not much. Personally I think you should blame BW for making a **** character, not blame everyone else for not liking him. But maybe that's just me.

Edit:
On my first playthough of ME2 (bearing in mind that, as I said, I had no expectations) I actually thought Jacob was going to turn traitor on me. Not because he was black (BW are Canadian after all) but because he was too good to be true. Everyone else in the game is dark and menacing and here is this trustworthy honest Cerberus man with a conscience! And right at the beginning he asks me if I trust him. I thought "this is a setup for a betrayal - cool!" but as the game went on it began to dawn on me that this was not the case, and that BW had copped out and made the black guy all idealistic. It's racism, but in reverse. It's fooked up.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 avril 2010 - 10:31 .

[Nostradamoose]

Am I the only one believing that the Jacob in Galaxy looked more Africanised to me while the one from ME 2 looked more Afro-american? Me Galaxy Jacob remembers me the guy in Blood diamond.

Just thinking out loud...

About Using the Me Galaxy comment about us prefering a "safer" black. Well, I'd rather have Me Galaxy like Jacob for ME 2, only for character continuity sake.

I mean, look at it. They completely changed the facial design for ME 2. In the character continuity department, that's bad. Just saying, Jacob is one of my fav Character (ie, the only non-psychotic one) and I would have prefered to have kept a certain character continuity...

Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies changed completely (yea the original Actor died) and it just felt like the character changed completely. This is why I would have prefered a certain continuity there.

Modifié par Nostradamoose, 27 avril 2010 - 10:31 .

[Arawn-Loki]

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

Latent racism is always a risk, but it operates at a sublimal level and you can't really prove it or measure it.

Jacob was fine, but he was operating in a capacity I would have preferred been shifted entirely to Garrus, as Shephard's buddy/combat lieutenant (Miranda is administrative/battlefield logistics lieutenant).

There are reasons to dislike any character (Miranda's attitude, Garrus's obsession with paperwork, Grunt not being Wrex, Tali's super-stardom, etc). Jacob occupies a dangerous cross roads of personal tastes and plot functions.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 27 avril 2010 - 10:33 .

[onelifecrisis]

Madi wrote...

Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob.

Interesting point. Personally I found Kaden (Kaiden?) to be the most boring squaddie in the two games - I stopped talking to him after a couple of conversations - but as you say, he is more popular. Could it simply be down to people being more physically attracted to people of their own race, and the majority of ME gamers being white? I'm making a lot of assumptions here... but, well, games and consoles cost money and white people generally have more of that. And with the protagonists being white as well, it figures that most of the players will be. I think most of the Kaiden support is from white Kaiden-mancers. That doesn't really make them racist. Just throwing it out there as a thought.

Edit:
"Just throwing it out there"!?
I need to stop playing ME2 and get a life.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 27 avril 2010 - 10:54 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Darkhour wrote...

kregano wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

You're heavily biased against white people.

What rational non-white person wouldn't? You're all racist afterall.

Do you know why there is still segregation 40 years after segregation was abolished?

How very rascist of you, discriminating against people for the colour of their skin.

Every race is equally rascist, to the same degree, and the fact that you can't see that proves it.

Better to wipe out the entire human race, nuke the planet from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

[Looper128]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

kregano wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

You're heavily biased against white people.

What rational non-white person wouldn't? You're all racist afterall.

Do you know why there is still segregation 40 years after segregation was abolished?

How very rascist of you, discriminating against people for the colour of their skin.

Every race is equally rascist, to the same degree, and the fact that you can't see that proves it.

Better to wipe out the entire human race, nuke the planet from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

you humans are all racist

[Darkhour]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

How very rascist of you, discriminating against people for the colour of their skin.

Every race is equally rascist, to the same degree, and the fact that you can't see that proves it.

Better to wipe out the entire human race, nuke the planet from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

I don't see to many people with white skin. I've seen pink, red, yellow, olive, brown and even blue people color classified as white, but I'm not sure if I've ever... nope, never seen one that had white skin. Being white isn't about looks. Disagree? Tell me what a white person looks like. Think carefully. White people will only tell you who isn't white.

Being white is about social standing. You can't be a first class citizen (white) without an underclass (non-white). Race was invented for the sole purpose of race-ism. Race is race-ism. There is no benefit to being black, brown, yellow, red, purple or green. It's just a gimmick to divide people. We still use the 1-drop rule to this day as a deterent. This idea that white people are unaware of their place in the world is absurd. The only reason for any white person to feign ignorance is to protect what they have while existing comfortably with those beneath them; Not any deluded idea that we're all equal. Non-white people have been letting white people be comfortable with the system of racism for far too long. 

Non-white people are victims of racism. They cannot be racist. They can mistreat each other all they want to make themselves feel like they are higher on the totem pole, but in the end of the day they are still at the bottom. How they behave is a result of racism. If the turians conquered earth and went about mistreating humans on the basis of having soft skin, are the humans racist for having anamosity toward turians? Of course not.

[Nostradamoose]

Allow me to disagree about those blatant lies. You, good sir, have never left your hometown to see other places and other cultures. There are other "kinds" of white men, you know, those that aren't WASP, those that haven't started the Apartheid, those who actually fought the Apartheid around the World.



Saying that all white people are racist is about the same as having a white person saying that all Colored people stink. Just plain blatant racist.



Anyhow, back on topic, while I do believe that some people might not like Jacob because of the fact that he is not WASP, I do not believe that it is the main cause. His romanced was botched by Bioware, but I still believe that Jacob would be a great Character in ME 3 with just minor adjustments to some of his conversations. As a bro, he is great in ME 3 and he is the only sane guy on the ship.

[Nazomi]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Am I the only one believing that the Jacob in Galaxy looked more Africanised to me while the one from ME 2 looked more Afro-american? Me Galaxy Jacob remembers me the guy in Blood diamond.

Just thinking out loud...

About Using the Me Galaxy comment about us prefering a "safer" black. Well, I'd rather have Me Galaxy like Jacob for ME 2, only for character continuity sake.

I mean, look at it. They completely changed the facial design for ME 2. In the character continuity department, that's bad. Just saying, Jacob is one of my fav Character (ie, the only non-psychotic one) and I would have prefered to have kept a certain character continuity...

Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies changed completely (yea the original Actor died) and it just felt like the character changed completely. This is why I would have prefered a certain continuity there.

I didn't like how drastically they changed Jacobs appearance from Galaxy either. I mean it's like they went out of there way to make him look as dramatically different as possible.  Purely for the sake of continuity i would have much prefered he bare at least a vague resemblance in both games. Who said anything about him ben "safer" black anyway? I don't get that at all. Anyway has there ever been an expenation why they decided to make Jacob look so different?

[Siansonea]

I have a female Shepard playthrough right now where I have successfully befriended Jacob without it turning into a 'Bad Romance'. So far, I'm much happier with it, though I still hate the way she says "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit".



And seriously, are we still debating about racism? It exists. It's bad. We should work to overcome it in ourselves and when we see manifestations of it in society. What is there to debate?

[Darkhour]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Allow me to disagree about those blatant lies. You, good sir, have never left your hometown to see other places and other cultures. There are other "kinds" of white men, you know, those that aren't WASP, those that haven't started the Apartheid, those who actually fought the Apartheid around the World.

Saying that all white people are racist is about the same as having a white person saying that all Colored people stink. Just plain blatant racist.

Anyhow, back on topic, while I do believe that some people might not like Jacob because of the fact that he is not WASP, I do not believe that it is the main cause. His romanced was botched by Bioware, but I still believe that Jacob would be a great Character in ME 3 with just minor adjustments to some of his conversations. As a bro, he is great in ME 3 and he is the only sane guy on the ship.

Calling you out as the race-ist you are is race-ist. You white supremacists never cease to amaze.

OK, simple question, oh "non-racist white person".

What is a white person? How do you know who is and is not white?

Simple enough question, right?

[Darkhour]

Siansonea II wrote...

I have a female Shepard playthrough right now where I have successfully befriended Jacob without it turning into a 'Bad Romance'. So far, I'm much happier with it, though I still hate the way she says "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit".

And seriously, are we still debating about racism? It exists. It's bad. We should work to overcome it in ourselves and when we see manifestations of it in society. What is there to debate?

Maleshep says the same thing, while leaning back and giving a goofy grin. Maleshep even compliments Jacob on his physique. It is not a "fem****" thing. That's just the way it was animated and scripted.

[Nazomi]

Darkhour wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I have a female Shepard playthrough right now where I have successfully befriended Jacob without it turning into a 'Bad Romance'. So far, I'm much happier with it, though I still hate the way she says "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit".

And seriously, are we still debating about racism? It exists. It's bad. We should work to overcome it in ourselves and when we see manifestations of it in society. What is there to debate?

Maleshep says the same thing, while leaning back and giving a goofy grin. Maleshep even compliments Jacob on his physique. It is not a "fem****" thing. That's just the way it was animated and scripted.

It's not like you're forced to compliment Jacob about being in good shape so you can't hold that against him.

[Beholderess]

kregano wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Of course, we are all evil racists... We evil white people...

Actually wait... are you racist against white people DarkHour?

Impossible.

Everyone knows that only white people can be racist... and that all white people are racist.

Either you are trolling or you're heavily biased against white people. I know plenty of white people who aren't racist.

My money's on trolling

[Polka14]

Darkhour wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

How very rascist of you, discriminating against people for the colour of their skin.

Every race is equally rascist, to the same degree, and the fact that you can't see that proves it.

Better to wipe out the entire human race, nuke the planet from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

I don't see to many people with white skin. I've seen pink, red, yellow, olive, brown and even blue people color classified as white, but I'm not sure if I've ever... nope, never seen one that had white skin. Being white isn't about looks. Disagree? Tell me what a white person looks like. Think carefully. White people will only tell you who isn't white.

Being white is about social standing. You can't be a first class citizen (white) without an underclass (non-white). Race was invented for the sole purpose of race-ism. Race is race-ism. There is no benefit to being black, brown, yellow, red, purple or green. It's just a gimmick to divide people. We still use the 1-drop rule to this day as a deterent. This idea that white people are unaware of their place in the world is absurd. The only reason for any white person to feign ignorance is to protect what they have while existing comfortably with those beneath them; Not any deluded idea that we're all equal. Non-white people have been letting white people be comfortable with the system of racism for far too long. 

Non-white people are victims of racism. They cannot be racist. They can mistreat each other all they want to make themselves feel like they are higher on the totem pole, but in the end of the day they are still at the bottom. How they behave is a result of racism. If the turians conquered earth and went about mistreating humans on the basis of having soft skin, are the humans racist for having anamosity toward turians? Of course not.

Racist. Reported.

[Polka14]

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Allow me to disagree about those blatant lies. You, good sir, have never left your hometown to see other places and other cultures. There are other "kinds" of white men, you know, those that aren't WASP, those that haven't started the Apartheid, those who actually fought the Apartheid around the World.

Saying that all white people are racist is about the same as having a white person saying that all Colored people stink. Just plain blatant racist.

Anyhow, back on topic, while I do believe that some people might not like Jacob because of the fact that he is not WASP, I do not believe that it is the main cause. His romanced was botched by Bioware, but I still believe that Jacob would be a great Character in ME 3 with just minor adjustments to some of his conversations. As a bro, he is great in ME 3 and he is the only sane guy on the ship.

Calling you out as the race-ist you are is race-ist. You white supremacists never cease to amaze.

OK, simple question, oh "non-racist white person".

What is a white person? How do you know who is and is not white?

Simple enough question, right?

Reported for hate speech.