1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Beholderess]

Darkhour wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

How very rascist of you, discriminating against people for the colour of their skin.

Every race is equally rascist, to the same degree, and the fact that you can't see that proves it.

Better to wipe out the entire human race, nuke the planet from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

I don't see to many people with white skin. I've seen pink, red, yellow, olive, brown and even blue people color classified as white, but I'm not sure if I've ever... nope, never seen one that had white skin. Being white isn't about looks. Disagree? Tell me what a white person looks like. Think carefully. White people will only tell you who isn't white.

Being white is about social standing. You can't be a first class citizen (white) without an underclass (non-white). Race was invented for the sole purpose of race-ism. Race is race-ism. There is no benefit to being black, brown, yellow, red, purple or green. It's just a gimmick to divide people. We still use the 1-drop rule to this day as a deterent. This idea that white people are unaware of their place in the world is absurd. The only reason for any white person to feign ignorance is to protect what they have while existing comfortably with those beneath them; Not any deluded idea that we're all equal. Non-white people have been letting white people be comfortable with the system of racism for far too long. 

Non-white people are victims of racism. They cannot be racist. They can mistreat each other all they want to make themselves feel like they are higher on the totem pole, but in the end of the day they are still at the bottom. How they behave is a result of racism. If the turians conquered earth and went about mistreating humans on the basis of having soft skin, are the humans racist for having anamosity toward turians? Of course not.

Lol. Just...lol. I have no words to adequately describe my feelings about this post.
Now that you've done insulting and throwing accusations against people you know completely nothing about, why don't you go back under the bridge? Oh, and no matter what you think, your statements are racistic. Ironic, isn't it?





PS: Sincere apologies to the rest of the people on this forums for not being more polite.

[Beholderess]

Siansonea II wrote...

I have a female Shepard playthrough right now where I have successfully befriended Jacob without it turning into a 'Bad Romance'. So far, I'm much happier with it, though I still hate the way she says "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit".

And seriously, are we still debating about racism? It exists. It's bad. We should work to overcome it in ourselves and when we see manifestations of it in society. What is there to debate?

Well, I've done the same, and actually liked the "get loud and spill the drinks" line=).

As for what is being debated, I was under impression that we are trying to determine if Jacob is unpopular due to race or for completely unrelated reasons. But I may be mistaken about that)

[Beholderess]

[quote]MajesticJazz wrote...

Exactly! I'm going to say it again, many want to run to the idea that Jacob had a bad romance, Jacob was dull, Jacob was creepy and all that mess as to why people dislike Jacob. Okay, okay I'll buy that because they played the game so they have some insight into the character. BUT, what about BEFORE ME2 came out? There were people who disliked Jacob and he got a bunch of negative attention. Mind you this is before the game came out so they had no insight into his romance or personality....but yet they disliked him....funny how nobody has came out to explain that.
[/quote]

You are probably right about people who disliked Jacob even before ME2 came out. It does looks...questionable. But why don't you ask those people about it? Most of the people in this thread gave you a legitimate in-game reasons. Unless you think that they are lying, of course.
Not sure if it is possible (I am relatively new to these forums), but perhaps looking up the threads about Jacob pre-release could give some answers...Imho, those who sisliked Jacob pre-release and those who dislike him after interacting with him in game should not be lumped into the same pile.



[/quote]

[quote]MajesticJazz wrote...

How are you so 100% sure that it has nothing to do with race for some people?
[/quote]

For some people - sure. Just like there are people who hate Ash for being openly religios, for example.  But for majority? Or even a significant part?

Modifié par Beholderess, 28 avril 2010 - 04:48 .

[Notho]

It's probably been stated a lot already, but I believe it's simply because he's not a very interesting character more so that his skin color. Or maybe it's because he's surrounded by characters that are more interesting than him. Either way, I don't think it's skin color.

[Polka14]

Notho wrote...

It's probably been stated a lot already, but I believe it's simply because he's not a very interesting character more so that his skin color. Or maybe it's because he's surrounded by characters that are more interesting than him. Either way, I don't think it's skin color.

It is not about skin color. Anyone that says otherwise is completely wrong. <_<

[onelifecrisis]

I'm reporting you all for overuse of the report button.

[Beholderess]

onelifecrisis wrote...

The other reason I didn't like Jacob is that he's basically a decent guy with nothing very interesting going on. His loyalty mission is just rubbish. It seems to me that he has been ruined by RL racial tensions/issues. By that I mean that BW had to make him a decent guy because anything else would have been labelled as racism. And I think his loyalty mission was meant to be relevant to the average black American (I hear that black American fathers are statistically not very likely to stick around) whereas every other loyalty mission is pure fiction/entertainment.

This makes much sence.
Actually, I would even consider this to be the root of the problem. So yes, Jacob's race does contribute to his lack of popularity, in a sence;)

[Reclusiarch]

I actually looked over his romance on youtube (everything up to the Omega 4 relay) and was impressed. I liked it! Not just the "sex" scene, but the rest as well.

[Nazomi]

WinterJedi wrote...

I actually looked over his romance on youtube (everything up to the Omega 4 relay) and was impressed. I liked it! Not just the "sex" scene, but the rest as well.

Seriously. I didn't think the romance was that bad at all. Doing the Garrus romance was the most painfully awkward if not downright gross romance in the entire series. Seriously I don't see how having grunt as a romance option would be any weirder yet a lot of people love Garus. I guess a lot of people have Raptor fetishes around here.

[Beholderess]

Nazomi wrote...

WinterJedi wrote...

I actually looked over his romance on youtube (everything up to the Omega 4 relay) and was impressed. I liked it! Not just the "sex" scene, but the rest as well.

Seriously. I didn't think the romance was that bad at all. Doing the Garrus romance was the most painfully awkward if not downright gross romance in the entire series. Seriously I don't see how having grunt as a romance option would be any weirder yet a lot of people love Garus. I guess a lot of people have Raptor fetishes around here.

Hehe, not sure about fetishes, but Garrus romance is my favorite. Hilariosly awkward, funny, and taking roots in deep friendship. And the final scene is just so touching...(/swoons like a little girl/)

As for Jacob...to each their own, I guess. But I can'd stand Shepard's lines in this romance (she sounds like a cheap call-girl). And the fact that Jacob consider Miranda to be too good for him, but Shepard is alright - it just rubs me a wrong way:sick:. Call it jealosy or something, but if you consider Shepard to be inferior to Miranda, go court Miranda.

[Tamyn]

Aniki_21 wrote...

Beholderess wrote...]

You might have a point here, though I wouldn't place 1 and 2 so high in priority. Perhaps if he was handsome, some of his flaws could be overlooked, sure. But it wouldn't magically make those flaws disappear.

Hey! Who are you to say he isn't handsome? Kasumi and Mirnda obviously thought otherwise.

I don't find him handsome. If he looked more like Taye Diggs, Djimon Hounsou or Shawn Wayans then I would.

[Nu-Nu]

Beholderess wrote...

Hehe, not sure about fetishes, but Garrus romance is my favorite. Hilariosly awkward, funny, and taking roots in deep friendship. And the final scene is just so touching...(/swoons like a little girl/)

As for Jacob...to each their own, I guess. But I can'd stand Shepard's lines in this romance (she sounds like a cheap call-girl). And the fact that Jacob consider Miranda to be too good for him, but Shepard is alright - it just rubs me a wrong way. Call it jealosy or something, but if you consider Shepard to be inferior to Miranda, go court Miranda.

Lol I was quite happy to make Jacob become Shep's first LI, he was a good character.....at the beginning...but it didn't work out.  

He was open right from the start but then he suddenly decides to get angry a couple of hours into it if you start trying to find out more about him, and because he wasn't open there wasn't much depth.  I didn't like the sudden change from approachable to troll.  It should have been the other way round.

I also didn't like Miranda at first, so knowing that her and Jacob had a thing put me off.  Him saying Miranda needed a better man but it was ok to romance my shepard put me off.  He's obviously on the rebound as well, so that puts me off.  I had visions of him dumping shep and running back to Miranda in me3.  I suppose I could kill miranda to prevent that but Jacob would probaly fall into depression and become more of an idiot.

Thus, for all those reasons, when Garrus came along, he stole me away with his stylish ways

[atheelogos]

Nazomi wrote...

WinterJedi wrote...

I actually looked over his romance on youtube (everything up to the Omega 4 relay) and was impressed. I liked it! Not just the "sex" scene, but the rest as well.

Seriously. I didn't think the romance was that bad at all. Doing the Garrus romance was the most painfully awkward if not downright gross romance in the entire series. Seriously I don't see how having grunt as a romance option would be any weirder yet a lot of people love Garus. I guess a lot of people have Raptor fetishes around here.

truer words were never spoken. Jacobs romance was pretty good imho. But Garrus was just down right nasty.

[cruc1al]

I thought Garrus' romance was sweet and pretty realistic (though a bit "teeny"), while Jacob's was just lazy writing and icky voice acting.

[Mossa_missa]

Wuldent mather to me if Jacob was white, green or blue. Its his personality that aint that intresting. Hes a great friend however.

[MotoSkunkX]

Why is this thread still alive?



I thought it was proven conclusively by page 10 or so that anyone who thinks the reason Jacob is unpopular because he's black(as opposed to stupid, boring, and irritating with no depth whatsoever) is either 1) racist themselves, likely against white people 2) an idiot or the far more likely 3) both.



Apparently most people didn't get the memo.

[askanec]

It could be that people are sub-consciously racist and finding things about Jacob to pick on. Just because someone says "I'm not racist" doesn't make it true.



It's really no different from being blinded by inner prejudice. Just look at what happened to Ashley or Kaidan, they associate Cerebus with Evil Incarnate. When Shepard appeared, they paint him with the same brush immediately, instead of listening to reason or logic. I really wish I could just shoot them right there and then.

[Aniki_21]

askanec wrote...

It could be that people are sub-consciously racist and finding things about Jacob to pick on. Just because someone says "I'm not racist" doesn't make it true.

It's really no different from being blinded by inner prejudice. Just look at what happened to Ashley or Kaidan, they associate Cerebus with Evil Incarnate. When Shepard appeared, they paint him with the same brush immediately, instead of listening to reason or logic. I really wish I could just shoot them right there and then.

Very true. I don't know of many racists who actually admit to it. While not even the point of the OP the fact is there is still a lot of blatant anti-black racism around. It's pretty easy to see online in places where you can get away with it. Seriously it's nearly impossible to see a clip on youtube of a black person doing something remotely negative without seeing any blatantly racist comments. Go look for yourself if you don't believe it. Places like this forum you have to keep your racism veiled (albeit, thinly in some cases). So ultimately there still are pleanty of people with issues of racism and it's hardly "reddiculous" to see how it could come in to play with some of the people who dislike Jacob.

[FlintlockJazz]

askanec wrote...

It could be that people are sub-consciously racist and finding things about Jacob to pick on. Just because someone says "I'm not racist" doesn't make it true.

It's really no different from being blinded by inner prejudice. Just look at what happened to Ashley or Kaidan, they associate Cerebus with Evil Incarnate. When Shepard appeared, they paint him with the same brush immediately, instead of listening to reason or logic. I really wish I could just shoot them right there and then.

At first I actually liked him, but as time went on and he showed more of his personality the less I liked him until he now grates on me.  The problem isn't that he's just bland like Kaidan but that he's bland and is actually rather arrogant.  His hypocritical dismissal of Thane ("Dude, you're working for Cerberus, you're probably more of a mercenary than he is!"), his claims that he is working for Cerberus 'to make a difference' (Christ, he's working for a terrorist organisation that murders people, he's making a difference alright...), etc.  He's bland except for an air of self-importance, the worst combination you can have.

[Nostradamoose]

Polka14 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Allow me to disagree about those blatant lies. You, good sir, have never left your hometown to see other places and other cultures. There are other "kinds" of white men, you know, those that aren't WASP, those that haven't started the Apartheid, those who actually fought the Apartheid around the World.

Saying that all white people are racist is about the same as having a white person saying that all Colored people stink. Just plain blatant racist.

Anyhow, back on topic, while I do believe that some people might not like Jacob because of the fact that he is not WASP, I do not believe that it is the main cause. His romanced was botched by Bioware, but I still believe that Jacob would be a great Character in ME 3 with just minor adjustments to some of his conversations. As a bro, he is great in ME 3 and he is the only sane guy on the ship.

Calling you out as the race-ist you are is race-ist. You white supremacists never cease to amaze.

OK, simple question, oh "non-racist white person".

What is a white person? How do you know who is and is not white?

Simple enough question, right?

Reported for hate speech.

Oh God, it's like talking to a wall. Remembers me of Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends episode with "Black" supremacists. I think this episode was only as creepy as the "White" Supremacists one.

Yea hum... So, me the Caucasian White French Canadian supremacist like Jacob because I'm a "white supremacist" and that he is a stereotyped character? What the hell is wrong with you?

I like a character that isn't caucasian, therefore I am racist. Another do not like the same character, therefore he is racist too? That's just retarded judgement. Supporting your claims, I should give generalisations to any other "race" out there? That's just bloody ludicrous... Man, seriously, I don't know where you live, but it just seems to me that you've got a messed up neighbourghood. So much hate for no reasons.

Modifié par Nostradamoose, 28 avril 2010 - 02:04 .

[Beholderess]

askanec wrote...

It could be that people are sub-consciously racist and finding things about Jacob to pick on. Just because someone says "I'm not racist" doesn't make it true.

It's really no different from being blinded by inner prejudice. Just look at what happened to Ashley or Kaidan, they associate Cerebus with Evil Incarnate. When Shepard appeared, they paint him with the same brush immediately, instead of listening to reason or logic. I really wish I could just shoot them right there and then.

A question then - how does one proves that s/he is not racist (without having to say that they like Jacob, of course?)

[Beholderess]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

At first I actually liked him, but as time went on and he showed more of his personality the less I liked him until he now grates on me.  The problem isn't that he's just bland like Kaidan but that he's bland and is actually rather arrogant.  His hypocritical dismissal of Thane ("Dude, you're working for Cerberus, you're probably more of a mercenary than he is!"), his claims that he is working for Cerberus 'to make a difference' (Christ, he's working for a terrorist organisation that murders people, he's making a difference alright...), etc.  He's bland except for an air of self-importance, the worst combination you can have.

This, too. Many people here told that they actually liked Jacob at the start of the game. Heck, I liked him at the start too. And it isn't possible not to notice his skin color at the start, is it? Yet he somehow made a positive impression at the first meeting. It's after that things started to get downhill.

[Polka14]

askanec wrote...

It could be that people are sub-consciously racist and finding things about Jacob to pick on. Just because someone says "I'm not racist" doesn't make it true.

It's really no different from being blinded by inner prejudice. Just look at what happened to Ashley or Kaidan, they associate Cerebus with Evil Incarnate. When Shepard appeared, they paint him with the same brush immediately, instead of listening to reason or logic. I really wish I could just shoot them right there and then.

This is sad. You really have no idea what you are talking about. The VS had a reasonable distrust of Shepard because of his/her reported connection with Cerberus. Cerberus is evil. African race is not evil; Jacob is not evil based on race. People that dislike Jacob are not racist; they simply dislike his attitude and some think he is boring and his LI dialog is supposedly bad (and the garrus LI included so I avoid both). I personally dislike Miranda even more than Jacob.  She is arrogant, rude and she believes she knows best about everyone.

This should be the end of the conversation. This thread needs to end.

[Siansonea]

Beholderess wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I have a female Shepard playthrough right now where I have successfully befriended Jacob without it turning into a 'Bad Romance'. So far, I'm much happier with it, though I still hate the way she says "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit".

And seriously, are we still debating about racism? It exists. It's bad. We should work to overcome it in ourselves and when we see manifestations of it in society. What is there to debate?

Well, I've done the same, and actually liked the "get loud and spill the drinks" line=).

As for what is being debated, I was under impression that we are trying to determine if Jacob is unpopular due to race or for completely unrelated reasons. But I may be mistaken about that)

I would say there is a probably a small percentage of truly racist people who don't like Jacob because of his ethnicity, but I don't think it's the cause for his almost universal unpopularity. Jacob just doesn't have much to recommend him. Paint him white and give him a different voice actor and he'll still be as dull as dishwater. There's just not a compelling story there. I think Kaidan is more popular because he is more of a pure 'nice guy' type. Jacob acts like a jerk sometimes, and that's a huge turnoff. Most of my issues with Jacob are the same issues I have with Ashley, they just seem one-dimensional and dull.

[Siansonea]

To me, it is just as racist to like a character/person to like a person because of their race as it is to dislike them because of their race. I'm not going to suddenly start liking the Jacob character to "prove" I'm not racist or something, that is silly and pointless. I hate it when people are so hypersensitive to race issues that they overcompensate with "look how much I love other ethnicities!" behavior. Just be yourself and let others be themselves.

I take every character in the game on his or her own merits. Jacob's merits are...well, he has a nice body. His face looks good unless he's talking or looking at somebody. He seems to not be evil. He's not a complete jerk. He doesn't actively sabotage Shepard's mission. Okay, now I'm out of merits. As for story/background/personality, he's not a failure, but not a success either. I don't hate the Jacob character, but I don't like him either. He inspires apathy more than anything else.