1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Polka14]

Darkhour wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

You said you are non-white. How do you know you aren't white?

Don't even bother to reply if you will not answer my simple questions. There is a nice discussion about Samara that you might be more comfortable participating in.

Is everyone affected by "white supremacy"? If we knew where it starts then we can say who the "white people" are right? Well it looks like I am not white. I have never oppressed anyone or denied anyone their rights.

""White Race"=singular."? That does not make any sense. If there is this myterious race called "white race" that seeks to oppress then all others are simply non-white? I do not really understand. Please list all "white people" so I can know who the hidden oppressors are.

You said you are non-white. How do you know you aren't white?

I'm hispanic and im sure that I know my own race and I have never oppressed anyone or denied anyone their rights so by your logic I can not be racist.

I don't know exactly why it would be relevant, but you stated that you are "hispanic"? Does that mean you speak spanish? Celebrate certain holidays? It's odd that you said "hispanic" as that is a cultural identity which many people of many morphologies and geneologies fall under.

And don't worry about "my logic". How do you know you aren't a white person in your own words? Before we ever had this conversation how did you know you weren't a white person?

It's about time I head of to bed. Hope you have a serious answer that isn't full of sarcasm tommorrow, but I won't get my hopes up. 

I know who I am. I do not have to change the way I live because you can not tolerate it. I know I am not "white" just like you. This whole conversation is nothing but confusing.

[Beholderess]

Nazomi wrote...

You know i'd like to actually hear from some people what they think would make Jacob more interesting? Would being more like Cole-Train from Gears of War make him more interesting as a previous poster asked?

 - Fix the romance
 - Let us learn some more of his past, espetially Corsair days
 - Give him more useful power (not important for me, as I play on Easy anyway, but still...)
 - Give him a Crowning Moment of Awesome or two. Some really cool scene. For example, Garrus has firmly accerted himself as a badass because of the mere fact that it took 3 merc companies to fight him. Jack destroyed 3 IMIRs. Thane's entrance is memorable, as is the way he vanished out of sight in his loyalty mission. And Jacob...I don't remember him ever doing anything cool, even though he is said to be able to.

[Gundar3]

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

You know i'd like to actually hear from some people what they think would make Jacob more interesting? Would being more like Cole-Train from Gears of War make him more interesting as a previous poster asked?

 - Fix the romance
 - Let us learn some more of his past, espetially Corsair days
 - Give him more useful power (not important for me, as I play on Easy anyway, but still...)
 - Give him a Crowning Moment of Awesome or two. Some really cool scene. For example, Garrus has firmly accerted himself as a badass because of the mere fact that it took 3 merc companies to fight him. Jack destroyed 3 IMIRs. Thane's entrance is memorable, as is the way he vanished out of sight in his loyalty mission. And Jacob...I don't remember him ever doing anything cool, even though he is said to be able to.

He did hit those 2 robotic mechs in the beginning and killed them with Shepard.... And also likes to salute the player, which makes me feel "military"...  Just a little something to remember.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Cole Train? Now I am really starting to think that some people on here are prejudiced. He is quite a racially insensitive character.....

[Gundar3]

He sure is fun though.

[Onyx Jaguar]

When Baird on accident is the only character that makes sense you know the writers should look for employment elsewhere.

[Beholderess]

Gundar3 wrote...

He did hit those 2 robotic mechs in the beginning and killed them with Shepard.... And also likes to salute the player, which makes me feel "military"...  Just a little something to remember.

I'm afraid that killing 2 small mechs wasn't very impressive)...Something of a higher scale would be nice. Saluting - yes, that's a good point. It is something that noone elce in a squad does. Still, in ME1 nameless NPC used to salute Shepard too. It haven't made them any less nameless.

[Yakko77]

I could care less what skin color Jacob had. His character simply had one of the least interesting stories and portrayal.



Why some have to go looking for some sort of race victimization at the drop of a hat when someone white disagrees or doesn't see eye-to-eye with a minority is just... ugh. It's tiresome and it's happening a ton here in the U.S. regarding politics. I'll spare you all the rant other than to say I'm fed up with baseless and insulting accusations.

[Ieldra]

Beholderess wrote...
Saluting - yes, that's a good point. It is something that noone elce in a squad does.

[Beholderess]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beholderess wrote...
Saluting - yes, that's a good point. It is something that noone elce in a squad does.

Ok, my mistake. Sorry, then.

[Nazomi]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
The question remains: What does ANY of this have to do with Jacob?

nothin. Jacob is boring, we gave up on that discussion days ago. Discussing race and biology is much more interesting than Jacob

You blatant thread saboteurs would feel pretty silly if you got banned because of repeated attempts at derailing this thread in order to get it closed when you could just ignore it and move on with your life.
My guess is that we'll be seeing more of Jacob in ME: 3 and get to know a
lot more about him and what "makes him tick"

How convenient of you Nazomi.

You have been asserting  your point that the Jacob character is unpopular and disliked because people are prejudice towards blacks, and/or that people lack the ability to relate to blacks as the cause of the character failing in the eyes of forum members throughout this entire thread.  You have minimized the character's faults, and assumed that it can't be the character writing alone that is the main force behind the ridicule and dislike of the character in these forums. 

What did you think was going to happen in this thread? 

Not sure what you think is "convinient" of me exactly other than the fact that I'd like to keep this discussion on topic and  that I find these transparent attempts to derail this thread as very childish.

[Beholderess]

Darkhour wrote...

Any person can mistreat another person. If a white child goes to a school whose majority is color classified as "black" he can expect to have trouble. The question is: Why?

Why would non-white people react to a white person negatively? We both know what the reason is. It is regretable that you were mistreated because of your parentage (I have been mistreated because of my light skin color), but humans are going to act out. It's in their nature. The condition of non-whites is a reaction to white supremacy.

Hmm, so if a lighter-skinned child is mistreated by his/her darker-skinned classmates, it is somehow less horrible, or even justified, than if the roles are reversed? How cute.
That is pure racism: the thought that mistreating one person is somewhat more justified than mistreating another based on skin color.

[FlintlockJazz]

Darkhour was still going? Blimey, I think we can guess he's based in America then due to the time he went to bed, which means that he's probably one of those people who has never left the US based upon the views he is spewing everywhere (apologies to other americans, no offense intended, just that he seems to presume everywhere works just like it does in America).

Actually, what am I doing, I'm supposed to be Minscing the thread!

Yes Boo, I agree, this group could do with a swift kick in the morals.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 30 avril 2010 - 08:44 .

[Gundar3]

Beholderess wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beholderess wrote...
Saluting - yes, that's a good point. It is something that noone elce in a squad does.

Ok, my mistake. Sorry, then.

Sweet Lord I was making a joke and I totally forgot about that with Miranda.  Albeit she doesnt routinely do it, but still, that takes away one of the few "unique" things Jacob did.... poor jacob... poor poor Jacob

[Commissar Gash]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

Dude, twenty-two pages in his support thread in just a couple of days, I don't think that Jacob is as hated now days as he used to be, I personally loved the guy since day one, glad that he won over some admires since then.

It's all bacause of The Priiize, I never heard of a meme that helped a character so much.

[Commissar Gash]

WE HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!!!

[implodinggoat]

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I really like Captain Anderson and he's black; but he was also a hell of a lot more intersting than Jacob and unlike Jacob he has a lot of moments where he takes a stand for Shepard most notably when he knocks Udina out cold and uses his computer to free the Normandy. 

You compared Jacob to Kaiden and I think thats a good comparison, since I didn't find Kaiden very engaging either and if anything I actually prefer Jacob due to his stoicism.  Since he's so damned vanilla Kaiden really isn't very popular amongst most players aside from those who had him as their love interest in ME1 (being a heterosexual male, I always went for Liara).   Still I think race might be a factor in Jacob being a less popular love interest than Kaiden since he doesn't conform as closely to our society's most common standard of male beauty though this effect would be even more extreme if Jacob were white; but bald or fat. 

Beyond that Jacob's stoicism might also be a factor since most of the people who romanced Kaiden generally comment  that they were attracted to his sensitivity.  Additionally Jacob just doesn't have any funny, witty or particularly charming lines which was one of Kaiden's strengths in ME1 since even though he was pretty dull he did have some pretty good one liners in ME1.  My own issue with Jacob is that like Kaiden he's not very interesting
and on top of that he comes off as being full of **** whenever he starts talking about how ****ed up Cerberus is and then justifies joining them solely on the grounds that he didn't like all the restrictions the Alliance put on him.  Still I wouldn't say that I dislike Jacob, I just don't find him very engaging.  In contrast Jack pisses me off constantly; but you'd be hard pressed to say that here character isn't engaging.

Through the entire game Jacob seems to either be acting coldly professional, pissed off or generally agreeable; but totally unassertive, agreeing with everything Shepard says and unwilling to take a stand.  Jacob just doesn't really have any defining moments that make him seem like anything more than a docile follower.  Even when you confront his father he more or less just sits there in the background while you question his dad rather than reacting with the sort of unbridled rage the situation demands.  Like Samara Jacob is a stoic character; but Samara is immensly more interesting since her stoicism is driven by the tragic fate which befell her and her children while Jacob just comes off as being muted and unassertive.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 30 avril 2010 - 10:29 .

[Nazomi]

implodinggoat wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I really like Captain Anderson and he's black; but he was also a hell of a lot more intersting than Jacob and unlike Jacob he has a lot of moments where he takes a stand for Shepard most notably when he knocks Udina out cold and uses his computer to free the Normandy. 

You compared Jacob to Kaiden and I think thats a good comparison, since I didn't find Kaiden very engaging either and if anything I actually prefer Jacob due to his stoicism.  Since he's so damned vanilla Kaiden really isn't very popular amongst most players aside from those who had him as their love interest in ME1 (being a heterosexual male, I always went for Liara).   Still I think race might be a factor in Jacob being a less popular love interest than Kaiden since he doesn't conform as closely to our society's most common standard of male beauty though this effect would be even more extreme if Jacob were white; but bald or fat. 

Beyond that Jacob's stoicism might also be a factor since most of the people who romanced Kaiden generally comment  that they were attracted to his sensitivity.  Additionally Jacob just doesn't have any funny, witty or particularly charming lines which was one of Kaiden's strengths in ME1 since even though he was pretty dull he did have some pretty good one liners in ME1.  My own issue with Jacob is that like Kaiden he's not very interesting
and on top of that he comes off as being full of **** whenever he starts talking about how ****ed up Cerberus is and then justifies joining them solely on the grounds that he didn't like all the restrictions the Alliance put on him.  Still I wouldn't say that I dislike Jacob, I just don't find him very engaging.  In contrast Jack pisses me off constantly; but you'd be hard pressed to say that here character isn't engaging.

Through the entire game Jacob seems to either be acting coldly professional, pissed off or generally agreeable; but totally unassertive, agreeing with everything Shepard says and unwilling to take a stand.  Jacob just doesn't really have any defining moments that make him seem like anything more than a docile follower.  Even when you confront his father he more or less just sits there in the background while you question his dad rather than reacting with the sort of unbridled rage the situation demands.  Like Samara Jacob is a stoic character; but Samara is immensly more interesting since her stoicism is driven by the tragic fate which befell her and her children while Jacob just comes off as being muted and unassertive.

Do people really like Anderson that much? If there are any fan threads dedicated to his honor I've missed them.  Besides he really doesn't have that big of a part in either game and he isn't a squadmate. So you'd have to have some serious issues to go out of your way to dislike a character who has such relatively little involvement in the main plot. Besides all that I fail to see what makes Anderson more interesting than Jacob. In fact when I try to describe him they're seem pretty similar. Both honorable military men who look to do the right thing. Respect Shepard and believe in Shepard's mission. etc. The only significant difference is Anderson is the older non threatening Morgan Freeman type.

[FlintlockJazz]

Nazomi wrote...

Do people really like Anderson that much? If there are any fan threads dedicated to his honor I've missed them.  Besides he really doesn't have that big of a part in either game and he isn't a squadmate. So you'd have to have some serious issues to go out of your way to dislike a character who has such relatively little involvement in the main plot. Besides all that I fail to see what makes Anderson more interesting than Jacob. In fact when I try to describe him they're seem pretty similar. Both honorable military men who look to do the right thing. Respect Shepard and believe in Shepard's mission. etc. The only significant difference is Anderson is the older non threatening Morgan Freeman type.

I love Anderson, and Jacob does not hold a candle to him.  The reason why you don't see threads for him is because he is not a squad member and never has been, and I doubt people would want to see him as such since it just wouldn't fit.

There are also very significant differences between Anderson and Jacob that you have overlooked by being so general with them.  First off, Anderson doesn't constantly make stupid suggestions or make hypocritical remarks about other characters.  He's also a very by the book type soldier, follows protocol, tries to work with the system and doesn't go running off to some terrorist organisation because "They get things done" like Jacob does.  He has principles and stands by them (and stands still when you talk to him).  Jacob on the other hand clearly hates protocol, using that as his excuse for joining Cerberus, is supposed to be a man of principle and yet is helping a terrorist organisation that murders people, makes inane suggestions such as 'space it', and casts judgement upon people who have already proven to be of stronger moral fibre than him and makes him look like a hypocrite (plus he is constantly parading up and down when you talk to him, Shepard should smack him for lack of discipline for doing that).

Essentially, Anderson is man who believes strongly in the Alliance and its methods, and is a good soldier, whereas Jacob is some guy who, as Jack insightfully puts it "Doesn't know who he is".

[Polka14]

Nazomi wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I really like Captain Anderson and he's black; but he was also a hell of a lot more intersting than Jacob and unlike Jacob he has a lot of moments where he takes a stand for Shepard most notably when he knocks Udina out cold and uses his computer to free the Normandy. 

You compared Jacob to Kaiden and I think thats a good comparison, since I didn't find Kaiden very engaging either and if anything I actually prefer Jacob due to his stoicism.  Since he's so damned vanilla Kaiden really isn't very popular amongst most players aside from those who had him as their love interest in ME1 (being a heterosexual male, I always went for Liara).   Still I think race might be a factor in Jacob being a less popular love interest than Kaiden since he doesn't conform as closely to our society's most common standard of male beauty though this effect would be even more extreme if Jacob were white; but bald or fat. 

Beyond that Jacob's stoicism might also be a factor since most of the people who romanced Kaiden generally comment  that they were attracted to his sensitivity.  Additionally Jacob just doesn't have any funny, witty or particularly charming lines which was one of Kaiden's strengths in ME1 since even though he was pretty dull he did have some pretty good one liners in ME1.  My own issue with Jacob is that like Kaiden he's not very interesting
and on top of that he comes off as being full of **** whenever he starts talking about how ****ed up Cerberus is and then justifies joining them solely on the grounds that he didn't like all the restrictions the Alliance put on him.  Still I wouldn't say that I dislike Jacob, I just don't find him very engaging.  In contrast Jack pisses me off constantly; but you'd be hard pressed to say that here character isn't engaging.

Through the entire game Jacob seems to either be acting coldly professional, pissed off or generally agreeable; but totally unassertive, agreeing with everything Shepard says and unwilling to take a stand.  Jacob just doesn't really have any defining moments that make him seem like anything more than a docile follower.  Even when you confront his father he more or less just sits there in the background while you question his dad rather than reacting with the sort of unbridled rage the situation demands.  Like Samara Jacob is a stoic character; but Samara is immensly more interesting since her stoicism is driven by the tragic fate which befell her and her children while Jacob just comes off as being muted and unassertive.

Do people really like Anderson that much? If there are any fan threads dedicated to his honor I've missed them.  Besides he really doesn't have that big of a part in either game and he isn't a squadmate. So you'd have to have some serious issues to go out of your way to dislike a character who has such relatively little involvement in the main plot. Besides all that I fail to see what makes Anderson more interesting than Jacob. In fact when I try to describe him they're seem pretty similar. Both honorable military men who look to do the right thing. Respect Shepard and believe in Shepard's mission. etc. The only significant difference is Anderson is the older non threatening Morgan Freeman type.

Non-threatening? Was that before or after he punched Udina into unconciousness?