Dean_the_Young wrote...
FlintlockJazz wrote...
Nazomi wrote...
The fact remains that Jacob happens to be part of cerberus before the fate of the universe depended on it doesn't make him unprincipled. There is no evidence that he has been part of any of the more questionable activities of the orginization. Also I only recall Jacob having a bad attitude to Thane for being an Assassin and Legion. You honestly can't hold that against him given the view the entire galaxy has about the geth. Even the sweet and beloved Tali has little emphathy for the Geth.
No, the fact that he joined Cerberus, a terrorist organisation that murders, for unclear reasons despite having misgivings about their methods makes him a man of little conviction: he does not seem to be consistent in his beliefs and is willing to drop them for little reason it seems, that in my book makes him a man of very few principles. This doesn't stop him from being a good man, but he still lacks any principles he apparently cares strongly about. Let me ask you: if an organisation approached you and offered you a job, but the organisation was known to commit murder and other acts that caused you to have serious misgivings about them, would you join up?
By that standard, none of the team in ME2, including Shepard, have principles. Tali jumped from her role in the Migrant Fleet without permission and ended up working with the exact same terrorist group AND the ancestral enemy of her people, for one man (woman). Shouldn't that make her unprincipled as well? Of course not: Tali's principles include very strong personal loyalty, perhaps unhealthily, and that's what drives her to join Shepard and Cerberus. Likewise, Jacob's principles (a strong desire to act to do good, an impatience with being held back by other people's beuracracy) are what led him to join Cerberus after the Battle of the Citadel: there is a threat to galactic survival (the Reapers), and the Alliance and Council were actively ignorring it and suppressing everyone who tried to stand up for Shepard. Cerberus acts on the threat, however, and so he worked for them to do undeniably good work with his condition that he not even be considered to do anything he'd find objectional.
I'm confused why you're in any way in the dark about why Jacob joined Cerberus, since that's mostly what he talks about early in the game.
But thats the thing, most of the other characters have extenuating reasons for joining as you have said. Jacob, on the other hand, joined Cerberus 'to do good'. Now, not only is that a vague reason but would you join up with an organisation known or at least rumoured to commit atrocities in order to 'do good'? Tali has her loyalty to Shepard, Thane has his desire to atone for previous actions, etc. Jacob, I just don't see it and worse he even has misgivings about Cerberus, the ironic thing is that I would probably have alot more respect for him had he been a staunch supporter of Cerberus and its methods (and I mean openly supports, not Miranda's pathetic attempts at spin, if he said "Yeah, Cerberus butchers people, and if we think it would be necessary to do so I would personally do it again" I would have more respect for him, I'd disagree with him but I would respect that he believed in what he was doing).
Both Jack and Samara make the comment that Jacob doesn't know what he wants, and thats because he lacks conviction, and without conviction principles mean jack ****.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
I can hold his attitude against him when his own actions make him just as much suspect if not more so than the people he is judging. Thane is an assassin, Jacob is a terrorist, why does he have a problem with Thane?
The basis of motivation, like he said. Thane has spent his life doing things for the paycheck, not the cause. Jacob joined Cerberus after the events on Eden Prime because no one else was addressing the threat of the Reapers. Jacob agreed to this mission by his principles and believing in the cause. Belief is something most people trust. Mercenaries and assasins, who's loyalty is bought, have a much weaker basis for trust, because there's always the (historically justified) question of what would happen if the other side offered more.
Thane is working for no money whatsoever. His previous history indicates that yes he did not have principles, but it is pretty evident that he has changed and gained them since, and is even trying to atone. If he would change sides for money why is he agreeing to do the job for free? Because he has signed up out of a personal desire to do right in order to atone for past crimes. Jacob on the other hand, regardless of his motivation,
is a mercenary: he is working for an independant organisation which gives him a paycheck, that is a literal definition of a mercenary.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
This is the major problem with Jacob: he is an intolerant hypocrite. Like Nozybidaj, I don't really dislike him, I actually liked him at the start, but his attitude gets irritating. His lack of conviction would not be a problem, but he instead he seems to hold other people to standards he doesn't seemt to hold himself to, and that is in many ways worse than being simply unprincipled.
Jacob's not intolerant, he simply doesn't trust people of certain professions. Like murder for hire. That's about as reasonable a built-in suspicion as you can get. As for hypocrite, I can't see how you'd call him one any more than Shepard.
Because Jacobs is casting judgement upon others while not living up to his own standards, that is why he is a hypocrite. Again, while Thane may be an assassin and murderer, Jacobs is a terrorist. It doesn't matter what his motivations are, he has joined an organisation that engages in murder, commits horrific experiments upon unwilling victims, etc. Jacobs is willingly associating himself with Cerberus.
That's how I see it anyway. I understand that people have different viewpoints, I even still see Jacobs as a good man, but to me he lacks the conviction to stand by his principles while simultaneously looking down on people who don't match up to his standards. As I've said before, I don't dislike him (thats reserved for Miranda and Zaeed), I just get irritated with some of his actions, and only started arguing this point because it appears that if you don't like Jacobs you must be a rascist according to some of the other posters here. <_< Oh and to show that Anderson is nothing like him, oh Anderson.
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