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Jacob: Why he is the least popular character in ME:2. (Elephant in the room)


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#876
casedawgz

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Nazomi wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That is the basis for all squad members in ME 2, Jacob doesn't complain about all of them just the Assassin because, he is an assassin. Plain and simple. Thane does not deserve sympathy I wouldn't trust him either.



I've always been confused about this. Thane is the only person he's rude to.


There should have been a Tali/Legion Miranda/Jack style confrontation after completing their loyalty missions. I almost got the sense that there was supposed to be, but it just didn't make it in or something. Their little altercation seems to foreshadow it but it's never followed up on.

#877
Aniki_21

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JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


I agree with a lot of what you say here especially the rediculousness of cally Jacob a hypocrite for being a part of cerberus and giving everyone else a pass. But I don't think he's the least popular because he's too similar to Kaiden and that Kaiden is the least popular from ME1. Kaiden has a fan thread of over 1000 pages. I doubt we'll see a Jacob fan thread ever come close to that.

#878
Sharn01

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The size of a fan thread is a poor measure of a character's popularity.



You can get a little bit of an idea of how popular a character is by how many people are in their fanclub. Its not perfect but its a little closer to the truth then the same four or five people spamming a thread to a thousand pages with empty posts that add nothing to it.

#879
Onyx Jaguar

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But the priiize...

#880
Bryzon

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To be honest, I don't like Jacob because I really don't know him as much as I do Tali. Most of my playthroughs are with Tali and Garrus or Jack, and the only reason Jack is with me is because I find her incredibly attractive. That's not racism, just the way I play the game. If he were in the first game, I'd probably get along with him more. Jacob also isn't that interesting. His personality isn't all that agreeable to me. And here's a curveball for the OP's theory, I'm white and married a black woman and I don't play with the only black character. Racism doesn't have anything to do with it, I just don't like him.

#881
FlintlockJazz

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JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


Yes, they are all terrorists, exactly.  They may have justifications for doing so but they are still acting outside the law for a terrorist organisation.  Jacob's attitude is what gets to me, he casts judgement on other characters and situations and I just feel that he should have the conviction to stand by his beliefs if he plans on doing that, as I said earlier if he had been a staunch supporter of Cerberus then I would have liked him alot more, hell he'd probably have wound up as one of my favourite characters. 

The Akuze plot point they should have at least let Shepard mention it, since you can get alternate conversations from Tali and Garrus for having done the Kohouko missions in ME1.  I can understand some railroading, and it is possibly the problem with Jacob that makes him look so bad: the devs had to come up with some justification to include this character from a phone game, decided by some money man who wanted to include him for marketing reasons.

Nazomi wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That is the basis for all squad members in ME 2, Jacob doesn't complain about all of them just the Assassin because, he is an assassin. Plain and simple. Thane does not deserve sympathy I wouldn't trust him either.



I've always been confused about this. Thane is the only person he's rude to.


He also casts judgement upon the Alliance, and on other organisations and situations, that just makes him look like a douche at times, and then is surprised when people do it back to him.  He badmouths the Alliance for all its red tape, and then uses it as a justification for joining a group he apparently has serious misgivings about just makes me want to facepalm.  He is a very opinionated person.

Anyway, back to my original point which was what I was trying to make all along:  Anderson and Jacob are completely different characters which is why some people really like one and not the other.  Other than their skin colour, there is no reason to presume they are in any way similar.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 02 mai 2010 - 11:23 .


#882
Dean_the_Young

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Considering he was part of the Alliance, he's as qualified to cast opinion on it as anyone. Can you claim any better perspective?



There is nothing wrong with having opinions. Opinions come from principles.

#883
JJames74

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Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


I agree with a lot of what you say here especially the rediculousness of cally Jacob a hypocrite for being a part of cerberus and giving everyone else a pass. But I don't think he's the least popular because he's too similar to Kaiden and that Kaiden is the least popular from ME1. Kaiden has a fan thread of over 1000 pages. I doubt we'll see a Jacob fan thread ever come close to that.


What Sharn01 said is true, you can't tell by the size of fan threads.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but Kaiden still is the least popular squadmate from ME1.  If not, who was less popular?  Kaiden only had 5 other squadmates to compete with for popularity.  Jacob has 12, plus the 4 from ME1who weren't squaddies in ME2.

#884
Aniki_21

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JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


I agree with a lot of what you say here especially the rediculousness of cally Jacob a hypocrite for being a part of cerberus and giving everyone else a pass. But I don't think he's the least popular because he's too similar to Kaiden and that Kaiden is the least popular from ME1. Kaiden has a fan thread of over 1000 pages. I doubt we'll see a Jacob fan thread ever come close to that.


What Sharn01 said is true, you can't tell by the size of fan threads.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but Kaiden still is the least popular squadmate from ME1.  If not, who was less popular?  Kaiden only had 5 other squadmates to compete with for popularity.  Jacob has 12, plus the 4 from ME1who weren't squaddies in ME2.


Kaiden is clearly more popular than Wrex.

#885
Onyx Jaguar

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Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


I agree with a lot of what you say here especially the rediculousness of cally Jacob a hypocrite for being a part of cerberus and giving everyone else a pass. But I don't think he's the least popular because he's too similar to Kaiden and that Kaiden is the least popular from ME1. Kaiden has a fan thread of over 1000 pages. I doubt we'll see a Jacob fan thread ever come close to that.


What Sharn01 said is true, you can't tell by the size of fan threads.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but Kaiden still is the least popular squadmate from ME1.  If not, who was less popular?  Kaiden only had 5 other squadmates to compete with for popularity.  Jacob has 12, plus the 4 from ME1who weren't squaddies in ME2.


Kaiden is clearly more popular than Wrex.


...

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Image IPB

#886
Aniki_21

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

I understand why you would call him a hypocrite but by that logic, everyone on the ship is a terrorist too because they are all associating with terrorists. There is a basic plot flaw in having Shepard associate with Cerberus, especially if yours was on Akuze. But you have to just go with the story and believe that no one other than Cereberus was going to do anything about the Reapers or the humans being abducted. If its okay for Shepard to be a paragon and associate with Cereberus in some way than it should be the same for Jacob.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


I agree with a lot of what you say here especially the rediculousness of cally Jacob a hypocrite for being a part of cerberus and giving everyone else a pass. But I don't think he's the least popular because he's too similar to Kaiden and that Kaiden is the least popular from ME1. Kaiden has a fan thread of over 1000 pages. I doubt we'll see a Jacob fan thread ever come close to that.


What Sharn01 said is true, you can't tell by the size of fan threads.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but Kaiden still is the least popular squadmate from ME1.  If not, who was less popular?  Kaiden only had 5 other squadmates to compete with for popularity.  Jacob has 12, plus the 4 from ME1who weren't squaddies in ME2.


Kaiden is clearly more popular than Wrex.


...

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Image IPB


Did i miss something? If you disagree I'd be happy to hear why you think so.

#887
Beholderess

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FlintlockJazz wrote...

In fact, thinking about it, Jacob's attacks on other, more well-liked characters could also be a reason why he is less well-liked than Kaidan.  While they are both bland, Kaidan is more accepting and never makes a detrimetral comment about the other NPCs, while Jacob attacks certain, arguable more popular, characters and therefore makes himself oppose the player's tastes.  Similar thing possibly occured with Ashley, she opposes aliens, making it harder for characters who prefer the alien NPCs to get along with her as well, though she also had other characters traits that prevented her from being so bland.


Very good point. I am willing to admit that Jacob's attacks on Tali and Thane (2 of my 4 favourite characters) might be a cause for my irritation with him. No, it is not rational. And no, it still has nothing to do with Jacob's skin tone. By the way, characters that are ocassionally irritating are more than fine. Irritating and boring - now here we're entering a dangerous territory.

#888
Beholderess

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JJames74 wrote...

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with disliking Jacob. I don't think people who don't like him are racist. Anyone can dislike someone for whatever reasons. You've given yours and they are valid for you. There is a big difference between not liking someone and hating someone though. I would say that those who say they "hate" Jacob probably have some sort of issues with black people. There is plenty of racism in the world to believe that a segment of gamers don't feel that way too. Personally, I think he is the least popular mostly because he is too much like Kaiden who seems to be the least popular from ME1. Too normal, boring, nothing special or extraordinary about him other than he is a good, normal person (although some may disagree). The poorly written romance didn't help either. Still there are a segment out there who aren't going to like him just because he's black. A small percentage will freely admit they are racist (and are even proud of it). Everyone has prejudices no matter what color you are, the key is to try and recognize them and not let them affect your thinking.


So very true

#889
Beholderess

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Aniki_21 wrote...

Kaiden is clearly more popular than Wrex.


As far as I know, Wrex was very, very popular in ME1. The reason why we don't have threads about him on this forum is that he is not LI, and so it is not that important to see him in ME3. Plus, most of the people are satisfied with the place given to him in ME2 - that of, basically, a krogan king. Of all ME1 squadmates he alone has a valid reason not to ge a joinable character.

#890
Aniki_21

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Beholderess wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

Kaiden is clearly more popular than Wrex.


As far as I know, Wrex was very, very popular in ME1. The reason why we don't have threads about him on this forum is that he is not LI, and so it is not that important to see him in ME3. Plus, most of the people are satisfied with the place given to him in ME2 - that of, basically, a krogan king. Of all ME1 squadmates he alone has a valid reason not to ge a joinable character.


Sure Wrex is popular. All ME1 characters have a following  but more popular than Kaiden? I just don't see it

#891
Collider

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Wrex seems definitely to be more popular than Kaidan. There's large representation of Kaidan fans on this forum, but they're mostly women and most gamers are men. Wrex has more cross-gender appeal, I would also wager.

#892
Nostradamoose

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Beholderess wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

In fact, thinking about it, Jacob's attacks on other, more well-liked characters could also be a reason why he is less well-liked than Kaidan.  While they are both bland, Kaidan is more accepting and never makes a detrimetral comment about the other NPCs, while Jacob attacks certain, arguable more popular, characters and therefore makes himself oppose the player's tastes.  Similar thing possibly occured with Ashley, she opposes aliens, making it harder for characters who prefer the alien NPCs to get along with her as well, though she also had other characters traits that prevented her from being so bland.


Very good point. I am willing to admit that Jacob's attacks on Tali and Thane (2 of my 4 favourite characters) might be a cause for my irritation with him. No, it is not rational. And no, it still has nothing to do with Jacob's skin tone. By the way, characters that are ocassionally irritating are more than fine. Irritating and boring - now here we're entering a dangerous territory.

Hell, Jacob did not attack Tali, that was just misinformation. As for Thane, I do agree with him that having an assassin watch your back is humm.... Dangerous, especially with Sheppard notoriety...

As for Legion, hell, not knowing he could be a teamate, I'd have spaced it as well... So yea, Jacob's attitude does make a lot of sense.

#893
Bigeyez

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Jacob is unpopular because he is a bland character period. I can't believe you actually think that simply because he's black, most white people can't connect with him. What type of backwards ass crap is that? /facepalm

Modifié par Bigeyez, 03 mai 2010 - 02:06 .


#894
Guest_gmartin40_*

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Because he is black.

#895
RyrineaNara

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Collider wrote...

Wrex seems definitely to be more popular than Kaidan. There's large representation of Kaidan fans on this forum, but they're mostly women and most gamers are men. Wrex has more cross-gender appeal, I would also wager.

Nope I know a a lot of men that like Kaidan  as well.  :blink:

#896
RyrineaNara

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Most gamers are both genders Collider not just one gender. In my college gaming group the females are about = to the men who play games in retro specs.

#897
syllogi

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RyrineaNara wrote...

Most gamers are both genders Collider not just one gender. In my college gaming group the females are about = to the men who play games in retro specs.


Women gamers are currently 30-40 percent of the market, amongst all genres, but some people will still try to discount female gamers no matter what.  The fact is that the gap is closing very fast, and will be non-existent in a few more years.

#898
Collider

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RyrineaNara wrote...

Most gamers are both genders Collider not just one gender. In my college gaming group the females are about = to the men who play games in retro specs.

I'm not discounting the women who plays games. But the ratio of people who play games like Mass Effect is not equal between genders yet.

#899
fortunesque

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People that are assuming that Jacob and Kaidan are similar obviously don't know either character very well.



Jacob- Changes sides when his personal preferences aren't met. Think a chaotic good kind of personality. It's why he's with Cerberus. He is also known to speak up about missions without being asked during debriefings.



Kaidan- Believes in rules and will only disobey them when it's absolutely imperative (Normandy lockdown). Will only offer his opinion when asked and will offer pertinent suggestions in debriefings but will always differ to Shepard.



Combined with the fact that their romances are like night and day, I don't see how anyone can reach the conclusion that Kaidan and Jacob are similar.

#900
Beholderess

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Nostradamoose wrote...

Hell, Jacob did not attack Tali, that was just misinformation. As for Thane, I do agree with him that having an assassin watch your back is humm.... Dangerous, especially with Sheppard notoriety...

As for Legion, hell, not knowing he could be a teamate, I'd have spaced it as well... So yea, Jacob's attitude does make a lot of sense.


Hey, I've said that such reaction was not entirely logical=). Tali's like a little sister to me, and if someone upsets my little sister, I tend not to care about their reasons. So, yes, in these scenes Jacob annoyed me.
Again, there is nothing wrong with having teammates disagree. DA characters seem to spend every waking hour arguing with each other. However, they do it in an amusing and, more often than not, funny manner. So, whatever slight annoyance I might feel at, say, Morrigan ridiculing Alistair, is more than compensated by the hilarity of it.
Jacob seem to have very little amusement factor to compensate for ocassional annoyance.