1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Aniki_21]

IMethos wrote...

I play as a Black shep. Jacob is too standoffish...and the the above poster...that conversation was WAYYY uncomfortable!!

You play as black Shepard? Cool. but what does that have to do with anything?

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

But I think what I disliked most about the quest was that Jacob wanted your help but not your emotional presence or input. He wanted you to butt out, he could handle himself and his feelings, he didn't need you.

I kind of liked his loyalty mission because the setting was fantastic and the music was good as well. It also felt very compact, but in a good way.

The only problem is that Jacob is kind of just there and not really doing anything. You get great insights into the characters from pretty much every other loyalty mission, but with Jacob's all you get really is...he thinks what happened here is bad. Just like any decent person would. That doesn't really show anything about Jacob other than he's a decent person, which we already knew.

And the conversation after the loyalty mission was disappointing. Tali and Liara both had something to say about losing one of their parents, yet all Jacob says is "I've got it covered." He can talk about his father without being like depressed or too affected by it. If you remember we had a similar discussion on this topic where Jacob would talk about what he saw with his father, say it was absolutely despicable but then go on to comparing it with some of the crazy **** he's seen as a corsair, and then starts recounting how this one mission was totally different than he imagined it to be. But really, woulda, coulda, shoulda.

This is exactly how I felt. I remember that conversation, and I still think it should've been the way to go, if they wanted to cling to their whole thing with Jacob not wanting to talk about things.

But I was looking forward to seeing Jacob struggle with this - I expected it. In everyone else's loyalty quest, they were put through hell. They had to struggle with something. Jacob was just disgusted, but no more than he would have been if the man responsible for it all hadn't been his father. He didn't struggle.

I guess the most important thing I can say about his loyalty mission is that it didn't change his character for me in the slightest bit or deepen him at all.

[Collider]

I guess the most important thing I can say about his loyalty mission is that it didn't change his character for me in the slightest bit or deepen him at all.

Yes. All of the other characters, they revealed something about them in their loyalty missions. Even Grunt went from fierce untamed warrior to the warrior with a purpose, with a mentor. Jacob? Just acted like any decent person would, as you said. Bioware didn't do the whole "normal guy" thing well with Jacob.

[LJScribes]

reasons that I and many others don't like Jacob
regardless of his color Jacob is just not that interesting of a character
he's a man showing off his bulge and buns in a spandex suit with shoulder pads.
not to mention "but the priiiiize."
his facial animations make his mouth look crazy at time.
his skills and weapon load out weren't that special either

this game is primarily played by male players, they're going to find the female characters and aliens more interesting than another human male
when I did a female playthrough, I tried out his romance plot, it made little sense beyond that of a silly fling, like Miranda's but Miranda at least seems to fall for you.

it has nothing to do with color
also Kaiden wasn't more popular because he was white, which he wasn't, he's some kind of asian. he was more popular because he had a popular voice actor commonly used by Bioware (Carth from KotOR)

Modifié par LJScribes, 06 mai 2010 - 04:23 .

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

I guess the most important thing I can say about his loyalty mission is that it didn't change his character for me in the slightest bit or deepen him at all.

Yes. All of the other characters, they revealed something about them in their loyalty missions. Even Grunt went from fierce untamed warrior to the warrior with a purpose, with a mentor. Jacob? Just acted like any decent person would, as you said. Bioware didn't do the whole "normal guy" thing well with Jacob.

It makes me wonder if Bioware is sitting there thinking now, "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

I mean, I sometimes wonder, like others have, whether Jacob was an experiment in response to the complaints about characters always whining and needing help with everything. People are always saying they're sick of it.

So then they create Jacob, and we complain about the opposite - he didn't talk to us enough and he was too boring and standoffish.

[Collider]

I tend to think that Kaidan is more popular with woman because femShep doesn't sound like a sexual predator while talking to him and Kaidan doesn't call her the "priiize" =p

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
It makes me wonder if Bioware is sitting there thinking now, "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

I mean, I sometimes wonder, like others have, whether Jacob was an experiment in response to the complaints about characters always whining and needing help with everything. People are always saying they're sick of it.

So then they create Jacob, and we complain about the opposite - he didn't talk to us enough and he was too boring and standoffish.

That's very possible. I could see them creating Jacob as response to the unfounded claims that Kaidan was whiny. Like someone else in the thread said, one problem with Jacob is that he's not "whiny" enough so to speak. He just barely mentions his past, like it's nothing. Being a corsair and saving the citadel from a terrorist attack is not nothing. I heard of one woman who initially was intrigued or excited by Jacob because he was a corsair - and she expected him to recount romantic, high danger days of being the space pirate traveling in exotic places and meeting the strangest of people. Nope, didn't happen. I will learn from failures of Jacob though, while I write my own characters in my own game. So there's at least some good from it - writers can learn what not to do if you want your character to be well liked and interesting.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
It makes me wonder if Bioware is sitting there thinking now, "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

I mean, I sometimes wonder, like others have, whether Jacob was an experiment in response to the complaints about characters always whining and needing help with everything. People are always saying they're sick of it.

So then they create Jacob, and we complain about the opposite - he didn't talk to us enough and he was too boring and standoffish.

That's very possible. I could see them creating Jacob as response to the unfounded claims that Kaidan was whiny. Like someone else in the thread said, one problem with Jacob is that he's not "whiny" enough so to speak. He just barely mentions his past, like it's nothing. Being a corsair and saving the citadel from a terrorist attack is not nothing. I heard of one woman who initially was intrigued or excited by Jacob because he was a corsair - and she expected him to recount romantic, high danger days of being the space pirate traveling in exotic places and meeting the strangest of people. Nope, didn't happen. I will learn from failures of Jacob though, while I write my own characters in my own game. So there's at least some good from it - writers can learn what not to do if you want your character to be well liked and interesting.

Personally I've never understood people's grief with this whining business. Or their complaints about characters constantly needing help. Like I've heard people complain that Tali is always needing to be rescued - wtf? 

I don't see it as help. I never have. I don't notice that I'm bailing them out or saving their lives or helping them on a quest, and I don't see it as a burden either. I like to feel involved.

Oh, and btw: your own game?

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Yeah, I did notice a few times he was insubordinate.

When I took Jacob and Miranda to Archangel's recruitment mission and instructed Jacob to stay and protect Garrus, Jacob objects; he doesn't want to stay. It surprised me, I didn't expect it.

However if you tell Miranda to stay and protect Garrus she does not object at all, but follows your orders. I always wondered why this was.

Probably because you told the guy with a shotgun to sit in the snipers nest, just an idea.

People were already entering the base by then, though. There was close quarter fighting going on, it wasn't all long distance work. For that matter Miranda doesn't have weapons suited for a sniper nest either, but she didn't object.

So it leads me to think he really just wanted to come with you and not stay behind with Garrus.

Not at that point, though. When you leave someone behind, there's no one in the base and they all have to go down the turkey shoot path. A shotgun is distinctly short range: an SMG has a good deal more reach and ability to keep targets hiding behind cover at a distance, as well as working close as well. In the context of defending a sniper nest, the SMG's much better: you wouldn't have to wait until the enemy was already in the base for it to be useful.

I'm saying I don't think it had anything to do with tactical reasons at all, just personal ones. Jacob still has a heavy pistol, he wouldn't be useless. For that matter, Jack has a shotgun too, but do you see Jack objecting?

No, I'm thinking he just doesn't want the team to split up.

[Collider]

There are misconceptions abound regarding these characters. Ashley is a racist, Kaidan is whiny, Tali needs rescuing all the time (because twice = all the time amirite), Miranda has no heart, Jack's an emo cliche, Jacob's the token black guy, etc. Basically what arises from people just looking on the surface. Sad but true.

[Valcutio]

I loved Anderson's character. I thought he was awesome and if he was a team-mate, he'd be on my squad. Color has little to do with it but I think the original poster makes a vallid point. The problem isn't that Jacob is black - it's that he's ONLY black. He has no other outstanding details.



Jacob looks like a douche (Kanye) and speaks like he came from a ghetto, not space. He's boring, bland and his ONLY defining characteristic is that he's black. That's it. If you had to define other characters you could go on for quite a awhile with each one. With Jacob you could define him in one, small sentence.. "He's a good black guy with millitary training." (The End)



In all honestly, I like him. I think he'd be a cool guy to hang with here on Earth in 2010. But in a futuristic space setting where you can hang with Quarians, Asari, Bio-Engineered Perfect Women and Joker? I'd take anybody over Jacob.



BTW, My real life name is Jacob so it's annoying to say this.

[gurlgotkat]

LJScribes wrote...
this game is primarily played by male players, they're going to find the female characters and aliens more interesting than another human male
when I did a female playthrough, I tried out his romance plot, it made little sense beyond that of a silly fling, like Miranda's but Miranda at least seems to fall for you.

I'm slightly offended by this even though it's true. girl gamers do exist and i am one of them.   the idea of adding jacob was basically  a male version of miranda, which was eyecandy and probably to balance out the over sexualized women and the number of romances.  it would be unfair if there were more male li than female li. which was a nice thought on bioware's part for fanservice for women; even though it was written badly.  many female gamers complain about the jacob romance b/c t's not written as on what women want in a romance.  I personally found all the female characters over sexualized (miranda jack are half naked, get ass shots, and etc.) or thought their personality was horrible but well written(jack   samara).  so thank god for jacob.
As for kaiden being more popular, i thought he was more well written b/c he speaks of his past.
I don't hate jacob but he is bland not b/c he is normal but he doesn't talk about his past. he needs a better writter or open up in the 3rd game.
i also believed that bioware listened to the complaining players. in the last game people complained that tali or character x complained or talked to much, which sucks cause all the characters in the second game are lacking in the dialoge department.

Modifié par gurlgotkat, 06 mai 2010 - 08:15 .

[DiatribeEQ]

Jacob is unpopular because Jacob is boring.  Not because he's black.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

There are misconceptions abound regarding these characters. Ashley is a racist, Kaidan is whiny, Tali needs rescuing all the time (because twice = all the time amirite), Miranda has no heart, Jack's an emo cliche, Jacob's the token black guy, etc. Basically what arises from people just looking on the surface. Sad but true.

[Beholderess]

Aniki_21 wrote...

IMethos wrote...

I play as a Black shep. Jacob is too standoffish...and the the above poster...that conversation was WAYYY uncomfortable!!

You play as black Shepard? Cool. but what does that have to do with anything?

Err, to point out that people are able to identify with black characters, and react positivily to seeing them in the leading roles, contrary to the opinion some people here seem to hold?

[Beholderess]

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

I guess the most important thing I can say about his loyalty mission is that it didn't change his character for me in the slightest bit or deepen him at all.

Yes. All of the other characters, they revealed something about them in their loyalty missions. Even Grunt went from fierce untamed warrior to the warrior with a purpose, with a mentor. Jacob? Just acted like any decent person would, as you said. Bioware didn't do the whole "normal guy" thing well with Jacob.

It makes me wonder if Bioware is sitting there thinking now, "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

I mean, I sometimes wonder, like others have, whether Jacob was an experiment in response to the complaints about characters always whining and needing help with everything. People are always saying they're sick of it.

So then they create Jacob, and we complain about the opposite - he didn't talk to us enough and he was too boring and standoffish.

That is very true

[Sharn01]

I cant believe all of you people dislike broccoli. I bet you all just hate broccoli because its green, if you just gave broccoli a chance I know you would like it, its impossible to dislike broccoli. Broccoli is so delicious, you can eat it raw with a ranch dip, or you can steam it and melt butter or cheese over it, there are so many awesome things about broccoli its just hard to imagine any one not liking it unless they just never gave it a chance.



I see a lot of people defending their opinion about disliking broccoli, they say they have eaten broccoli and tried it many different ways with many different recipes and they just dont care for it, but I think they are biased. obviously broccoli is just so awesome that its impossible for someone to dislike it if they gave it a chance.



You all hate broccoli just because its green.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...
I'm saying I don't think it had anything to do with tactical reasons at all, just personal ones. Jacob still has a heavy pistol, he wouldn't be useless. For that matter, Jack has a shotgun too, but do you see Jack objecting?

No, I'm thinking he just doesn't want the team to split up.

Jack isn't a tactically proficient soldier, and has (in game) far superior biotics to deal with range issues than Jacob. Moreover, Jack actually is insubordinate on a number of occassions, wheras Jacob's disagreements, such as this one, nearly always have a tactical or logical dimension behind them. Yes, Jacob has a heavy pistol. Everyone has a heavy pistol. That does not make Jacob something other than one of the worst armed members to leave behind in a Sniper Nest. It's not a matter of uselessness, since few tactics are useless, but of gross inefficiency and waste. That's a pretty important thing not to want to do, and Jacob should be praised, not maligned, for thinking for himself rather than obeying Shepard like a dog.

Believe it or not, feeling your superior officer is making a mistake is not insubordination. Raising the concern in a respectful manner is also not insubordination: it is a duty. What would be insubordination is if, after having your concern raised and addressed in the proper manner, you persisted in your objection, refused to let it drop, and refused to act as ordered. Jacob has never done that.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 06 mai 2010 - 10:27 .

[Beholderess]

Sharn01 wrote...

I cant believe all of you people dislike broccoli. I bet you all just hate broccoli because its green, if you just gave broccoli a chance I know you would like it, its impossible to dislike broccoli. Broccoli is so delicious, you can eat it raw with a ranch dip, or you can steam it and melt butter or cheese over it, there are so many awesome things about broccoli its just hard to imagine any one not liking it unless they just never gave it a chance.

I see a lot of people defending their opinion about disliking broccoli, they say they have eaten broccoli and tried it many different ways with many different recipes and they just dont care for it, but I think they are biased. obviously broccoli is just so awesome that its impossible for someone to dislike it if they gave it a chance.

You all hate broccoli just because its green.

Lol, that sums this thread!
Obviosly everyone who dislikes broccoli only because s/he is biased. Oh, and the people who claim to dislike broccoli because of it's taste is in fact hate it because it's green, but they wouldn't admit it.

[Sengoku no Maou]

Beginning squad mates and party members are usually hated in RPGs.

[Apollo Rising]

[quote]Valcutio wrote...



Jacob looks like a douche (Kanye) and speaks like he came from a ghetto, not space. He's boring, bland and his ONLY defining characteristic is that he's black. That's it. If you had to define other characters you could go on for quite a awhile with each one. With Jacob you could define him in one, small sentence.. "He's a good black guy with millitary training." (The End)


quote]
So Jacob, who speaks proper english but with a tinge of attitude sounds like he's from the ghetto?Have you ever been to "a ghetto" because if you had you would know how foolish you sound.

[Dean_the_Young]

Don't you know? Any independent black guy who doesn't speak white is from the ghetto. It's a fact.

[JJames74]

Valcutio wrote...
Jacob looks like a douche (Kanye) and speaks like he came from a ghetto, not space.

Speaks like he came from a ghetto?  WTF!  I guess they should have had Zaeed's VA voice him then.

Also, I understand that people dislike Kayne because he is an a--hole and Jacob has a strong resemblance to him ( huge mistake on Bioware's part given how different he looked in pics from the cell game). Does him resembling Kanye really turn people off to him that much?  Given how it keeps coming up in the thread it must be.  I'm starting to wonder that him resembling Kanye is prejudicing some gamers as much as the fact that Jacob is black.

[JJames74]

Sharn01 wrote...

I cant believe all of you people dislike broccoli. I bet you all just hate broccoli because its green, if you just gave broccoli a chance I know you would like it, its impossible to dislike broccoli. Broccoli is so delicious, you can eat it raw with a ranch dip, or you can steam it and melt butter or cheese over it, there are so many awesome things about broccoli its just hard to imagine any one not liking it unless they just never gave it a chance.

I see a lot of people defending their opinion about disliking broccoli, they say they have eaten broccoli and tried it many different ways with many different recipes and they just dont care for it, but I think they are biased. obviously broccoli is just so awesome that its impossible for someone to dislike it if they gave it a chance.

You all hate broccoli just because its green.

Broccoli and cheese soup YUM! (Homer drooling with his head back and tongue hanging out)

[Aniki_21]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Don't you know? Any independent black guy who doesn't speak white is from the ghetto. It's a fact.

Ummm. What's speaking white exactly?