1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Sharn01]

Aniki_21 wrote...

bthillman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why on earth would I ban them for racial humor? Letting your jokes and opinions be informed by race is not a crime.

You've missed the point. You're over analysing, there is a large sense of resentment from you as well.

What resentment? People do have unconscious racial biases that shape opinions: this is a well-studied fact. It is not necessarily malign. People do make racially-tinged jokes about Jacob that they don't make for any other character. That, to, is a fact. Both of these are apparent from casual examination alone. How is that overanalyzing? 

Actually, if you have noticed, all the humor with Jacob ("the priiize", "Jacob-Luc-Picard", captain hats, etc.) have actually increased his fanbase.  Before all that, with all the terrible things I had heard about the romance, I swore to never romance him.  Then all of that humor broke out, so I decided to check it out myself, and now I kind of like Jacob.  He isn't my favorite character, but he isn't the worst either.  To revisit my original point, he was just not well written.  Having said that, I believe all the humor directed towards him are more people's attempts to make him more interesting than some kind of subconscious racism.

Well actually most of the Jacob jokes such as "the priiize" comments are done to mock him.

They where only used to mock him origonally.  I think it was about 3 weeks ago, not sure, someone made a video to mock Jacob's romance, it was very funny, but it was also not offensive so it was a great watch for people who didnt like Jacob and also those who did.

Long story short the few Jacob fans latched onto the video and the threads on these boards that linked to it, Jacob actually picked up a few fans because of it and "the priize" has become the groups catch phrase. 

I still dont like Jacob personally because I played a femShep but hey, to each their own.

[Aniki_21]

jmood88 wrote...

mosor wrote...

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but in ME1 I would have loved to be able to romance Tali. However the talimancers here turned me off to her. I just stick with either Ash, Miranda or Jack.

I've started to hate Tali just from the weird/creepy ass people on this board who are obsessed with her. All of the "love" threads are pretty sad but the Tali one's are by far the saddest.

Yeah i feel really strange about Tali now. I was a fan of Tali and I actually wanted her to be a romance option for male Shepards but the talimancers definitely kind of put me off. It's fine to like a character but it's just a bit much. I still like Tali but i just feel like i'm in weird company now. Meh!

[Nazomi]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Madi wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

Let me guess..........you're in hs/college and just had a psychology class

Yeah you sure got me there. <_<

The fact that 90%+ of this thread disagrees w/ you "got you" champ

Speak for yourself buddy.

Modifié par Nazomi, 14 mai 2010 - 04:50 .

[Beholderess]

(sigh) I still think that it is much simpler.

Could Jacob's skin color affect some people's perception of him? Sure it could.

However, good writing and characterisation would have mitigated such effect almost completely.



So, even if some people's perseptions are affected by race, it doesn't mean that Jacob can't be legitimately considered boring, uninteresting, lackluster, and with yucky romance.



Race card is not an excuse for bad writing.



By the way, I still wonder if it is possible to make an experiment in order to receive some real data? Re-model Jacob and then show the game to the people who haven't played ME2 before. See if Jacob still ends up overshadowed by other squadmates.

Is it technically possible? Cos' it's the only way I see that could give us any proof.

[Nightwriter]

It's technically possible but realistically unlikely. It would be a great experiment, but we'll never know. Still, I think I know what the results would be.

I even think that the people who accuse Jacob's non-fans of racism are participating in a bit of it themselves. They don't look at the fact that he's a boring character, they don't look at how he was written or the quality of his personality - all they see is "black". People hate the black guy. So they think this must be the reason.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 14 mai 2010 - 05:46 .

[Nazomi]

You know when Jacob gets re-written to be a carbon copy of Cole-Train you guys who complained about him are going to regret it.

Modifié par Nazomi, 14 mai 2010 - 06:17 .

[Chuvvy]

Nazomi wrote...

You know when Jacob gets re-written to be a carbon copy of Cole-Train you guys who complained about him are going to regret it.

Holy **** that would be epic. I don't even like gears but Cole is ****ing awesome.

[Persephone]

My insignificant thoughts:

I liked Jacob. At first. While on the Cerberus base & during FP he's awesome. He's hot (IMO), has a neat voice etc.

BUT:

Once I got on the Normandy I went WTF at my Shep's behavior and his responses. No offense to J. Hale (I adore her), but she sounds like a sexual predator there & that's putting it carefully. Their whole romance was about promising each other a good time & not much else.

However: He is the only one who says the three magical words: I love you. When you reject him at first. So I'm thinking that there IS some substance there, he's just hiding behind sleazy Joey Tribbiani kind of "flirting" (Friends). I only wish they had fleshed him out more. So much potential lost. He could have opened up slowly and Shepard could have done the same (I.E. Talking about Akuze) They could have talked about the Alliance too. Anything really but their constant purring. He has some sweet lines ("You know what gets to me? You. It's all you, all of it.") but the tight outfit & sleazy dialogue ruined it for me. I have nothing against flirting of that sort, but if THAT is all you get out of a guy, then NO WAY.

[Beholderess]

Lol, I still wonder who the heck is this Cole

[SuperMedbh]

Persephone nailed it. I think my irritation with the character of Jacob is how great he could have been. He's really interesting (and hot) when you first meet him, then it turns into this cheesy heavy flirt/pickup line sort of thing. Outside of the romance, he clearly has some depth to him (his loyalty quest is great). But it's just overshadowed by the stupid romance.



It would also help if he was more powerful in combat. He's sort of a glass Vanguard, more than anything else.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Beholderess wrote...

Lol, I still wonder who the heck is this Cole

Strong language and complete personification of character.

EDIT:  Whoever the writers were at Epic when they made UT3 and GOW 2 were slapped with stupid at a very early age

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 14 mai 2010 - 08:08 .

[Beholderess]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Lol, I still wonder who the heck is this Cole

Strong language and complete personification of character.

EDIT:  Whoever the writers were at Epic when they made UT3 and GOW 2 were slapped with stupid at a very early age

Took me some time to understand it, and I'm still not sure if I've understood everything (have difficulty understanding spoked English - not first language), but it does look pretty funny.
So...ahem...am I a racist for liking this scene?
Although in ME2 is would be completely out of character for Jacob behave like this. There are tons of different directions the devs could use to develop him better by expanding his existing backstory/personality, not by copying come other char. Jack, however...something like this could be her crowning moment of awesome=)

[JJames74]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Madi wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

Let me guess..........you're in hs/college and just had a psychology class

Yeah you sure got me there. <_<

The fact that 90%+ of this thread disagrees w/ you "got you" champ

I think your math is wrong, but even if it isn't, that doesn't mean what the OP said isn't true.

[JJames74]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Few people would admit to any sort of racism, conscious or otherwise. Subconscious racially-driven feelings are the sort of thing most people wouldn't even be aware of, so couldn't admit to even if it were true.

There certainly is a good deal of racially-tinged humor about Jacob: the Pimp hat photos, the numerous screen caps emphasizing his jaw and teeth that would be more or less gone in a flash during videos. Neither of these have been done for other characters, even though Jacob isn't alone with his face modeling problems. (Miranda stands out to me moreso.)

I thought you were reaching a little too much in discussing the stereotypes for that pic earlier, but here you are dead on. 

[Dean_the_Young]

The fact anyone could derive so much of the character simply by his appearance is a testament to how many stereotypes and cliches went into it's creation.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 14 mai 2010 - 04:13 .

[Darth_Ultima]

I thought that Jacob had the potential to be a really cool character. Problem is that it feels like he has no personality. Game play wise he is Miranda with a shotgun. It just feels like he did not have much attention paid to him when they were creating characters for the squad mates.

[KalReegarVasNeema]

Aniki_21 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

mosor wrote...

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but in ME1 I would have loved to be able to romance Tali. However the talimancers here turned me off to her. I just stick with either Ash, Miranda or Jack.

I've started to hate Tali just from the weird/creepy ass people on this board who are obsessed with her. All of the "love" threads are pretty sad but the Tali one's are by far the saddest.

Yeah i feel really strange about Tali now. I was a fan of Tali and I actually wanted her to be a romance option for male Shepards but the talimancers definitely kind of put me off. It's fine to like a character but it's just a bit much. I still like Tali but i just feel like i'm in weird company now. Meh!

Henceforth whenever you see Tali on screen you will wonder how many people have thought sexually about that moment.

[Aniki_21]

Slidell505 wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

You know when Jacob gets re-written to be a carbon copy of Cole-Train you guys who complained about him are going to regret it.

Holy **** that would be epic. I don't even like gears but Cole is ****ing awesome.

Please God NOOOO! 

[CC-Tron]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

I thought that Jacob had the potential to be a really cool character. Problem is that it feels like he has no personality. Game play wise he is Miranda with a shotgun. It just feels like he did not have much attention paid to him when they were creating characters for the squad mates.

Gameplay wise, he's Miranda with a shotgun?  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie] Okay following that logic............

Yeah and Tali is just Miranda with an attack drone.  Grunt is just an ugly Miranda with Fortication and assault rifle.  Thane is just.......well you know where I'm going with this. 

[Sharn01]

Persephone wrote...

My insignificant thoughts:

I liked Jacob. At first. While on the Cerberus base & during FP he's awesome. He's hot (IMO), has a neat voice etc.

BUT:

Once I got on the Normandy I went WTF at my Shep's behavior and his responses. No offense to J. Hale (I adore her), but she sounds like a sexual predator there & that's putting it carefully. Their whole romance was about promising each other a good time & not much else.

However: He is the only one who says the three magical words: I love you. When you reject him at first. So I'm thinking that there IS some substance there, he's just hiding behind sleazy Joey Tribbiani kind of "flirting" (Friends). I only wish they had fleshed him out more. So much potential lost. He could have opened up slowly and Shepard could have done the same (I.E. Talking about Akuze) They could have talked about the Alliance too. Anything really but their constant purring. He has some sweet lines ("You know what gets to me? You. It's all you, all of it.") but the tight outfit & sleazy dialogue ruined it for me. I have nothing against flirting of that sort, but if THAT is all you get out of a guy, then NO WAY.

Yes, because when a guy says I love you right after being rejected for sex, all women know its sincere and not a desperate attempt to convince you to change your mind.

[Aniki_21]

Sharn01 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

My insignificant thoughts:

I liked Jacob. At first. While on the Cerberus base & during FP he's awesome. He's hot (IMO), has a neat voice etc.

BUT:

Once I got on the Normandy I went WTF at my Shep's behavior and his responses. No offense to J. Hale (I adore her), but she sounds like a sexual predator there & that's putting it carefully. Their whole romance was about promising each other a good time & not much else.

However: He is the only one who says the three magical words: I love you. When you reject him at first. So I'm thinking that there IS some substance there, he's just hiding behind sleazy Joey Tribbiani kind of "flirting" (Friends). I only wish they had fleshed him out more. So much potential lost. He could have opened up slowly and Shepard could have done the same (I.E. Talking about Akuze) They could have talked about the Alliance too. Anything really but their constant purring. He has some sweet lines ("You know what gets to me? You. It's all you, all of it.") but the tight outfit & sleazy dialogue ruined it for me. I have nothing against flirting of that sort, but if THAT is all you get out of a guy, then NO WAY.

Yes, because when a guy says I love you right after being rejected for sex, all women know its sincere and not a desperate attempt to convince you to change your mind.

I think it's obvious that Jacob is more than interested in just sex with fem shep. He's pretty resistant to the relationship and fem shep has to be pretty aggressive to get him to go along with it.

[mosor]

Meh I think most of the squadmates are not really interesting looking at it objectively. Most are just ripped off from other fiction.



Jacob just happens to be the soldier who always tries to do good. Some people might find that the most boring of the bunch. Doesn't really explain the hate. Boring characters tend just to be ignored.