1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Aniki_21]

Nazomi wrote...

MrCry0 wrote...

Ok, here's my deal with jacob.

He has no opinion, on anything. He's not interesting. Seriously, his father had a kingdom going on for 10 years, and for some reason, I didn't give a damn. Because he's black? maybe, but I doubt it. I felt the same way about kaidan, so I don't think it's that. I've made them both die in my main character's game.
All of the other characters have outspoken opinions about something. Jacob doesn't. I can't reallyd escribe it.


Also, Jacob was an **** against tali and thane for absolutely no reason, while they are probably the nicest people around. If the option 'shoot jacob through the eye' had appeared at that time, I'd have taken it.

Speaking of Jacob's loyalty quest with his crazy/loser dad. Did anyone notice the higher concentration of random black npc characters in comparison to the very limited number we see throughout the game? I wonder what that was about. Just my random observation of the day.

Yeah i noticed that  too. Weird. 

[JJames74]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

I thought Morinth was the least interesting character.

She should be.

[JJames74]

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Oh come on! I can't believe people are still falsely accusing Jacob of being rude to Tali when it was the complete opposite. While Tali was mostly justified in her attitude it still doesn't make sense to say Jacob was being a jerk becasue he made the terribly offensive act of....... telling Tali  about the ship AI who she will be working with ?

Well, I've explicitely said that it doesn't make sence. It is an emotional reaction, the same sort I'd have if someone made my little sister cry.
Still, for all the talk about how he doesn't trust Cerberus and doesn't agree always agree with their methods, when confronted by someone who is justifiebly angry at his organisation he behaves as if it is no big deal. Seems a little bit hypocritical. As for AI comment,in itself it wasn't bad. Context is everything.

Oh, and Jacob was purposefully rude to Thane, the is no room for misunderstandings about it.

How does he behave as if it isn't a big deal? He's understanding of how she feels and says he wasn't a part of the injustice done to here people. Glad you admit that the people seething at Jacob the AI comment aren't being reasonable.

Reasonable or not, it has nothing to do with Jacob's skin color anyway. Prejudises about skin color are not the only ones people have, after all. Not nessesary even the main ones. Tendencies to pick an old friend over  aquaitance, Cerberus hater over Cerberus agent (if one dislikes Cerberus, that is), heck, a hot girl over a guy (not that it applies to me, lol. But look at the number of talimancers...)  should not be ignored. Heh, it would be hard to base personal preferrance of Tali over Jacob on skin color, for noone has any idea about what color she is. Purple seems to be favourite, though=)


And still nothing about Thane. He sertainly done nothing to antagonise Jacob...

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with inter-party conflict. For example, in DA:O almost everyone teases or even outright insults everyone elce at least once, but that doesn't make me dislike any of the characters. Why? Because their constant arguements are quite amusing.
Problem with Jacob is that he manages to both 1) Slightly get on some people's nerves and 2) Is not amusing enough to compensate for it.
Aggravating characters are fine - they make you feel something.
Completely bland and boring characters are...well, less fun than aggravating ones, but still ok, cos' at least they don't make you feel any negative emotions.
However, when an already boring character does something that player does not appreciate - then it's a ready recipie for dislike.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jacob's comments to Tali and Thane.  Tali is easily my favorite character and my initial reaction to his EDI comment was shock.  I guess I had a defending little sister moment too.  But after thinking about what Tali said, I realized that she did start it (even if it was justified).  Its not really in either persons character to just attack or insult for no reason.  I also thought Jacobs attack on Thane was out of character too, but I later learned about ME Galaxy.  If you think about it, why would anyone be comfortable with an infamous assassin unless you already knew them well?  His attack on Thane wasn't personal, it was based only on what he knew of him, some guy who kills people for a living.  As for Jacob being hypocritical, I think that is just a matter of opinion.  Personally, I thought it was clear that Jacob was not cool with Cerberus' past and would only stay as long as they were doing what is right from his perspective.  Still people keep saying how he is hypocritical for defending Cerberus or even being a part of them.  Maybe thats because some people see things more black and white and some people see things as more greyish?  Maybe thats the wrong metaphor given the topic?

Anyway, I agree that when you add reasons to dislike someone to an already bland character, you can't expect him to be popular.  I still think he shouldn't be the least popular, but he seems to be.

[Aniki_21]

JJames74 wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Oh come on! I can't believe people are still falsely accusing Jacob of being rude to Tali when it was the complete opposite. While Tali was mostly justified in her attitude it still doesn't make sense to say Jacob was being a jerk becasue he made the terribly offensive act of....... telling Tali  about the ship AI who she will be working with ?

Well, I've explicitely said that it doesn't make sence. It is an emotional reaction, the same sort I'd have if someone made my little sister cry.
Still, for all the talk about how he doesn't trust Cerberus and doesn't agree always agree with their methods, when confronted by someone who is justifiebly angry at his organisation he behaves as if it is no big deal. Seems a little bit hypocritical. As for AI comment,in itself it wasn't bad. Context is everything.

Oh, and Jacob was purposefully rude to Thane, the is no room for misunderstandings about it.

How does he behave as if it isn't a big deal? He's understanding of how she feels and says he wasn't a part of the injustice done to here people. Glad you admit that the people seething at Jacob the AI comment aren't being reasonable.

Reasonable or not, it has nothing to do with Jacob's skin color anyway. Prejudises about skin color are not the only ones people have, after all. Not nessesary even the main ones. Tendencies to pick an old friend over  aquaitance, Cerberus hater over Cerberus agent (if one dislikes Cerberus, that is), heck, a hot girl over a guy (not that it applies to me, lol. But look at the number of talimancers...)  should not be ignored. Heh, it would be hard to base personal preferrance of Tali over Jacob on skin color, for noone has any idea about what color she is. Purple seems to be favourite, though=)


And still nothing about Thane. He sertainly done nothing to antagonise Jacob...

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with inter-party conflict. For example, in DA:O almost everyone teases or even outright insults everyone elce at least once, but that doesn't make me dislike any of the characters. Why? Because their constant arguements are quite amusing.
Problem with Jacob is that he manages to both 1) Slightly get on some people's nerves and 2) Is not amusing enough to compensate for it.
Aggravating characters are fine - they make you feel something.
Completely bland and boring characters are...well, less fun than aggravating ones, but still ok, cos' at least they don't make you feel any negative emotions.
However, when an already boring character does something that player does not appreciate - then it's a ready recipie for dislike.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jacob's comments to Tali and Thane.  Tali is easily my favorite character and my initial reaction to his EDI comment was shock.  I guess I had a defending little sister moment too.  But after thinking about what Tali said, I realized that she did start it (even if it was justified).  Its not really in either persons character to just attack or insult for no reason.  I also thought Jacobs attack on Thane was out of character too, but I later learned about ME Galaxy.  If you think about it, why would anyone be comfortable with an infamous assassin unless you already knew them well?  His attack on Thane wasn't personal, it was based only on what he knew of him, some guy who kills people for a living.  As for Jacob being hypocritical, I think that is just a matter of opinion.  Personally, I thought it was clear that Jacob was not cool with Cerberus' past and would only stay as long as they were doing what is right from his perspective.  Still people keep saying how he is hypocritical for defending Cerberus or even being a part of them.  Maybe thats because some people see things more black and white and some people see things as more greyish?  Maybe thats the wrong metaphor given the topic?

Anyway, I agree that when you add reasons to dislike someone to an already bland character, you can't expect him to be popular.  I still think he shouldn't be the least popular, but he seems to be.

Yeah it seemed pretty obvious that Jacob had a history that led him to the opinions of mercenaries/ assasins that he does. Just like Tali's history with cerberous.

[Teazey]

This thread is sort of pointless, and seems to be made to spur controversy over nothing. I was unaware that he was the least populuar. Everyone has their own opinons. He is one of my favorites. He could be the least populuar because nothing stands out about him. He is a nice guy, and is not psycho or has been through horrible things like the rest of the crew.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

people don't like Jacob because he's black, people don't like Jacob because he's a god-awful character.

[Aniki_21]

Lizardviking wrote...

people don't like Jacob because he's black, people don't like Jacob because he's a god-awful character.

Okay I'm guessing that you're saying people don't not like Jacob because he's black. And god awful character? Come on now, even most people who dislike him will admit that that's too strong of a judgment.

[jmood88]

Lew717 wrote...

Are you suggesting that Jacob would be more popular if he was white? Seriously now. I think he'd be more boring if he was a white.

Yes he would, look at the popularity of Kaidan compared to Jacob.

[Nazomi]

jmood88 wrote...

Lew717 wrote...

Are you suggesting that Jacob would be more popular if he was white? Seriously now. I think he'd be more boring if he was a white.

Yes he would, look at the popularity of Kaidan compared to Jacob.

A point often overlooked.

[Beholderess]

Can't speak for others, but for me Kaidan has 2 advantages:

1) He is ME1 character and LI. Besides nostangic feelings he inspires of those who wants the whole ME1 crew back, he been there longer, and there wasn't that much of a competition when he accumulated his fanbase.

2) In ME1, Kaidan haven't done anything to annoy me. I considered him the least interesting squadmate, but at least he'd done nothing I disliked.



Oh, and another thing. I might be mistaken, but it looks like most of the people who geniunely like Kaidan are those who played his romance. And let's face it - his romance is much better than Jacob's.

[Aggie Punbot]

Kaidan was actually rather amusing at several points, too, but I admit that may be a matter of personal opinion.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Kaidan's not white...

[Jedi0309]

I'm not sure the color of his skin has anything to do with it.  I never use him, because his weapon choices are less desirable compared to anyone who can use an assault rifle, sniper rifle, or the new SMG.  If Jacob has access to any of these weapons, I would use him more often.  Other team members like Tali and Jack are also restricted to shotguns, but their powers more than make up for their limited firepower.  In my opinion, Jacob's lack of weaponry and meh abilities keep him from making the active duty roster.

[Sharn01]

I liked Kaiden quite a bit more then Jacob, but my Shepard was never forced to flirt with him and he never stepped on my toes in the dialog. ME presented things after missions much better then ME2 for all party members though, since all the squadmates where present and it was not as if one person decided to show up and stick his nose in my business.

I almost disliked Ashley as much as Jacob though for different reasons, she was never disrespectful to Shepard so pulls out ahead. Jacob just fell prey to too many things that bothered me, I have pointed out the forced flirting and insubordinate behavior already, but I failed to mention the whole Cerberus thing also which I think adds to it.

I cant speak for people who ended up liking Cerberus, but since it happened so quickly it may apply to them as well, but it just seemed like the game wanted to force Shepard to like Jacob, you are never given the option to question him beyond the little info that is given early in the game, the game just assumes that by the time you get the Normandy all is well, and you would not be left with any trust issues any longer.

Miranda suffers less from this because she is a staunch Cerberus supporter and very abrasive early in the game, I felt it was a bit forced with her as well, but not nearly as much, plus she did not commit the other acts that really bothered me that Jacob did with the exception of how she interacted with Jack, who is just as abrasive as Miranda in a different way.

Modifié par Sharn01, 19 mai 2010 - 08:46 .

[Jedi0309]

Sharn01 wrote...

I almost disliked Ashley as much as Jacob though for different reasons, she was never disrespectful to Shepard so pulls out ahead.

Ashley grated me the wrong way whenever I took her along on missions.  She got very lippy with Shepard on Nevaria, when reguarding the fate of the Rachni.   Her obvious racism towards any species other than humans forced me to bench her on the 2nd playthough.  To me, Kaidan was a static character and very easy to forget.  You could play the entire game without ever taking him on missions, or talking to him outside of the required dialog, and not miss anything.

Jacob is exactly what Joker said about him:  Too nice a guy for how many ways he knows how to kill people.  I'm noticed people have mentioned that jacob is Hypocritical when reguading Cerberus, but I don't see it.  A soldier, who doesn't like or agree with everything his commanding officer does, will still continue to follow orders out of loyalty.  That's kinda how Jacob feels about Cerberus.  He's loyal, as long as they earn that loyalty.

Modifié par Jedi0309, 19 mai 2010 - 09:22 .

[EmperorKaveje]

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

NOT everyone is racist but it was enough Racist to scare Bioware into not focusing on Jacob as much as the others out of fear that those FEW racist would come out the wood work with "N" bombs.

[Beholderess]

EmperorKaveje wrote...
NOT everyone is racist but it was enough Racist to scare Bioware into not focusing on Jacob as much as the others out of fear that those FEW racist would come out the wood work with "N" bombs.

Hmm, this might make sence.

[Nazomi]

EmperorKaveje wrote...

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

NOT everyone is racist but it was enough Racist to scare Bioware into not focusing on Jacob as much as the others out of fear that those FEW racist would come out the wood work with "N" bombs.

I'm not sure what you're saying here exactly.  Who would come out of the wood work with "N" bombs and where? I believe there was already some racist jokes being made on these boards before the game ever came out.

[jmood88]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

He certainly isn't black.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aniki_21 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

people don't like Jacob because he's black, people don't like Jacob because he's a god-awful character.

Okay I'm guessing that you're saying people don't not like Jacob because he's black. And god awful character? Come on now, even most people who dislike him will admit that that's too strong of a judgment.

what i meant was that most people hate Jacob because he's a annoying god-awful character, not because of his skin color.

[Nazomi]

Lizardviking wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

people don't like Jacob because he's black, people don't like Jacob because he's a god-awful character.

Okay I'm guessing that you're saying people don't not like Jacob because he's black. And god awful character? Come on now, even most people who dislike him will admit that that's too strong of a judgment.

what i meant was that most people hate Jacob because he's a annoying god-awful character, not because of his skin color.

Exagerating much? <_<

[Aniki_21]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

[Spartas Husky]

thats coz both have sucky backgrounds, and nothing interesting to talk about.

Unlike my jacob, which carriers a nice scimitar and a vindicator rifle.....yeah now he is kool to take along.


or you can find an excuse to use the race card in something so....mundane as a game character...<_<

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 22 mai 2010 - 01:41 .

[Aniki_21]

Spartas Husky wrote...

thats coz both have sucky backgrounds, and nothing interesting to talk about.

Unlike my jacob, which carriers a nice scimitar and a vindicator rifle.....yeah now he is kool to take along.


or you can find an excuse to use the race card in something so....mundane as a game character...<_<

I'm not accusing you of anything but the fact is the usually the first people to complain about the "race card" are the racists.

[Homebound]

I can see where Bioware wanted to go with Jacob, but they just, couldnt, quite, get it.



Maybe he needs to grow an afro and learn Karate.