1527 réponses à ce sujet

[JJames74]

Aniki_21 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

I read he was at least part asian, though most people think he's white.

[mellors]

In a game where more than half your squad are aliens or mechnical I'm not convinced skin colour is a problem in regards to relating to characters. I find him likeable, especially in that he was so willing to tell the truth and wasn't blindly following Cerberus, but I think he and his loyalty mission were underdeveloped and he lacks the funny banter you have with others.

Modifié par mellors, 22 mai 2010 - 01:48 .

[mybudgee]

It's gotta be simply because Jacob is the closest character to a stock 'straight man'. So by that definition, he has to be somewhat boring. Especially compared to Sub Zero or Grunt.

[mybudgee]

And also, the Kanye West similarity CANNOT be a good thing for Jacob. When i read that some of his AWFUL songs started running through my mind. West is the Paris Hilton of hip-hop.

[Beholderess]

Aniki_21 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

Sure, Kaidan is pretty boring - as is Jacob. But there is anoother factor that shouldn't be ignored - Kaidan's romance is better. Way better.
So there is no wonder that those who romanced Kaidan as femshep (and, judging by the Kaidan fanthread, it seems that most of the people who like him like is precifically as a romance option) like him more.
Both are not so interesting, but at least Kaidan don't have the priiiiize, does not compare Shepard unfavourably to another woman, and Shepard does not sound like a cheap...ahem...sex-worker when talking to him.

[Chuvvy]

Shepard - Sooo, Jacob

Jacob - Commander?

Shepard - Sorry about that whole slavery thing.

Jacob - Dude.

Shepard - What? I just wanted to let you know I'm not a racist.

Jacob - ...

Shepard - I swear. I even voted for space Obama.

[NKKKK]

Jacob is a character made with he basis of being black, I can tell, when you make a character with that in mind. It happens.

[Chuvvy]

Just_mike wrote...
Maybe he needs to grow an afro and learn Karate.

I'm okay with this.

[rwilli80]

I have been replaying ME2 since the Firewalker and Katsumi DLCs came out. And I noticed after you recruit Thane Jacob seems to have a problem with having an assassin on the team and then he states that he hates mercenaries. I would love a line of dialogue for Shep to turn to him and ask what does he think he is. He may think he's a soldier, but since he doesn't work for a recognized government entity. At the very least Cerberus can be considered a PMC which would make Jacob a mercenary. He just seemed rather hypocritical at that moment, which seemed out of character from all his other encounters.

[Aniki_21]

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

I read he was at least part asian, though most people think he's white.

Where did people get that idea?

[Nazomi]

Slidell505 wrote...

Just_mike wrote...
Maybe he needs to grow an afro and learn Karate.

I'm okay with this.

I hope this is a joke. And also for those of you complaining about Jacob you haven't really given any suggestions on what could make him more interesting. Just saying he isn't interesting therefore i don't like him doesn't really say a whole lot and I'm not sure I buy that.

[Beholderess]

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)

Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

[Beholderess]

To name just a few suggestions:

Beholderess wrote...

Corsair past, dangerous missions for Alliance - this got to give him a lot of stories to tell, way cooler than Zaeed's. Dissatisfaction with both Alliance and Cerberus - could lead to some interesting discussion about morality, goals and methods, preferrably without making Jacob look like a hypocrite. Heck, even his normality could be used as an advantage if it was recognised by the game as something that differs him from the rest of the squad, and some attention was called to it

Collider wrote...

He just barely mentions his past, like
it's nothing. Being a corsair and saving the citadel from a terrorist
attack is not nothing. I heard of one woman who initially was intrigued
or excited by Jacob because he was a corsair - and she expected him to
recount romantic, high danger days of being the space pirate traveling
in exotic places and meeting the strangest of people.

Collider wrote...
You get great insights into the characters
from pretty much every other loyalty mission, but with Jacob's all you
get really is...he thinks what happened here is bad. Just like any
decent person would. That doesn't really show anything about Jacob
other than he's a decent person, which we already knew.

And
the conversation after the loyalty mission was disappointing. Tali and
Liara both had something to say about losing one of their parents, yet
all Jacob says is "I've got it covered." He can talk about his father
without being like depressed or too affected by it. If you remember we
had a similar discussion on this topic where Jacob would talk about
what he saw with his father, say it was absolutely despicable but then
go on to comparing it with some of the crazy **** he's seen as a
corsair, and then starts recounting how this one mission was totally
different than he imagined it to be. But really, woulda, coulda,
shoulda.

Beholderess wrote...

 - Fix the romance
 - Let us learn some more of his past, espetially Corsair days
 - Give him more useful power (not important for me, as I play on Easy anyway, but still...)
 -
Give him a Crowning Moment of Awesome or two. Some really cool scene.
For example, Garrus has firmly accerted himself as a badass because of
the mere fact that it took 3 merc companies to fight him. Jack
destroyed 3 IMIRs. Thane's entrance is memorable, as is the way he
vanished out of sight in his loyalty mission. And Jacob...I don't
remember him ever doing anything cool, even though he is said to be
able to.

Polka14 wrote...

Give jacob singularity and give us more options for conversation about his past and he will be a good member of the team. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

adriano_c wrote...
 Even his loyalty mission, for example, wasn't really about him,
rather his father's crazy antics. If anything, they should have
explored those ramifications as a way of giving him more depth.

[Nazomi]

Beholderess wrote...

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)
Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

The lack of backstory and what some believe to be a "flawed" romance are failings of the writers and not a failing of Jacob as a character. Sure it would have been more "interesting" if Jacob was raised by a pack of Varren or something but i don't think that would really improve him as a character.

[Beholderess]

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)
Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

The lack of backstory and what some believe to be a "flawed" romance are failings of the writers and not a failing of Jacob as a character. Sure it would have been more "interesting" if Jacob was raised by a pack of Varren or something but i don't think that would really improve him as a character.

Well...if a character is not interesting, it is a fault of writers, period.
Again, Jacob has a lot of potential, but how we are supposed to like him if the game does not show his cool side?
Besides, I've always thought that backstory and interactions with PC and NPCs are exactly the things that define a character (and combat stats, of course, but that's another story).  If this is not what makes character in a game, then what does? Perhaps I am misunderstanding something? Which is very possible...

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why on earth would I ban them for racial humor? Letting your jokes and opinions be informed by race is not a crime.

"informed by race" is a misnomer... but you're here for other reasons

[Nazomi]

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)
Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

The lack of backstory and what some believe to be a "flawed" romance are failings of the writers and not a failing of Jacob as a character. Sure it would have been more "interesting" if Jacob was raised by a pack of Varren or something but i don't think that would really improve him as a character.

Well...if a character is not interesting, it is a fault of writers, period.
Again, Jacob has a lot of potential, but how we are supposed to like him if the game does not show his cool side?
Besides, I've always thought that backstory and interactions with PC and NPCs are exactly the things that define a character (and combat stats, of course, but that's another story).  If this is not what makes character in a game, then what does? Perhaps I am misunderstanding something? Which is very possible...

Generally I like characters that i could see myself being friends with in real life. I can relate to Jacob. He isn't a a complete psycho or has serious psychological issues of some kind. That may not make him as "interesting" as someone like Jack or Grunt but that doesn't make me like him less or think he isn't a good character because he's too "normal".

[Beholderess]

Well, guess it's just a matter of taste, then. In real life, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near most of the characters I like.



Which is not to say that a "normal" character cannot be interesting, but writing a "normal" character in an interesting way requires much more talent and effort. As for Jacob, his main problem (imho, of course) is that he has much potential which was, sadly, left unexplored. I've never offered to change his existing background, after all. Just explore it more, for there seem to be quite a lot of potentially interesting hooks in there.

Oh, and his romance definitely needs revorking, there's no way around that. Ugh.

[Sharn01]

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)
Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

The lack of backstory and what some believe to be a "flawed" romance are failings of the writers and not a failing of Jacob as a character. Sure it would have been more "interesting" if Jacob was raised by a pack of Varren or something but i don't think that would really improve him as a character.

This makes no sense at all. 

Are you telling people that they have to like Jacob despite being a horrible character because its the writers fault for portraying him that way?

While it is the writers fault for making Jacob that way, its still Jacob who my Shepard was forced to interact with during the game.  Yes I blame the writers for Jacob and hold them resposible for how much I disliked his character, that doesnt mean I dont dislike Jacob also.  You are basicly asking people to like everything in the game, and telling them its ok to be upset with the makers of the game for making mistakes, but that we cant be upset with the game or a character in the game.  That is akin to telling people to shut up and smile and say they like a horrible game (not mass effect, just an example) that they hate and just say the writers are to blame, but I like this game I cant stand playing.   

[Nazomi]

Sharn01 wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Oh? I've seen plenty of ways to improve Jacob being suggested in this thread. I've even offered a couple=)
Basically, improve his romance and make him elaborate a bit about his past. His backstory has a lot of potential - shame that it wasn't used.

The lack of backstory and what some believe to be a "flawed" romance are failings of the writers and not a failing of Jacob as a character. Sure it would have been more "interesting" if Jacob was raised by a pack of Varren or something but i don't think that would really improve him as a character.

This makes no sense at all. 

Are you telling people that they have to like Jacob despite being a horrible character because its the writers fault for portraying him that way?

While it is the writers fault for making Jacob that way, its still Jacob who my Shepard was forced to interact with during the game.  Yes I blame the writers for Jacob and hold them resposible for how much I disliked his character, that doesnt mean I dont dislike Jacob also.  You are basicly asking people to like everything in the game, and telling them its ok to be upset with the makers of the game for making mistakes, but that we cant be upset with the game or a character in the game.  That is akin to telling people to shut up and smile and say they like a horrible game (not mass effect, just an example) that they hate and just say the writers are to blame, but I like this game I cant stand playing.   

Umm. I'm not telling you to like anytone actually . Also just because you don't like Jacob calling him a "horrible" character is a gross exaggeration that I'm sure many people who don't even particularly like him would agree with.

[Nazomi]

Beholderess wrote...

Well, guess it's just a matter of
taste, then. In real life, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near most of
the characters I like.

Which is not to say that a "normal"
character cannot be interesting, but writing a "normal" character in an
interesting way requires much more talent and effort. As for Jacob, his
main problem (imho, of course) is that he has much potential which was,
sadly, left unexplored. I've never offered to change his existing
background, after all. Just explore it more, for there seem to be quite a
lot of potentially interesting hooks in there.
Oh, and his romance
definitely needs revorking, there's no way around that. Ugh.

Like i said before. I like Jacob but I do think there were a few "issues" that could have made him a more "complete" character. That being said i still think he was a good character and I'll take him over Kaiden anyday.

Modifié par Nazomi, 24 mai 2010 - 07:35 .

[Beholderess]

Hmm, it still seems to me that we simply mean different things by the same words, and that causes misunderstanding.

For me, a "good character" (in a game) is the one that provides entertainment. I might not particulary like some of my favourites as persons (like Morrigan, or Miranda). Actually, I might dream of an opportunity to hit them in a face. 3 times. With an iron tube. But they add spice in game, so to speak. Good characters provides moments of awesome, funny, heartwarming, or a tearjerker or two. Also, good character is fun to interact with, has different things to say depending on what PC tells them, and easily responds to player's poking, so to speak. It might not be a pleasant responce, but response non the less. A good character has some stories to tell hearing which makes me smile, or shed a tear, or go wow!



What is your definition of a good character? It seems to me that for you, a "good character" is a "good person". Am I mistaken?

[JJames74]

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

I read he was at least part asian, though most people think he's white.

Where did people get that idea?

I never read explicitly why people thought he was asian, but my guess is because his mother was exposed to eezo near Singapore or because Kaidan is a Japanese name (btw it is spelled Kaiden or Kaidan depending on where you look) though either does not necessarily mean he is asian.  Maybe someone else knows more and can comment.  I assumed he was white before I saw it on the boards.  Ultimately race matters less in what you actually are; people react to what they think you are.

[Nazomi]

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Aniki_21 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kaidan's not white...

I know i'm a little late with this question but but is he then if not white? Kaiden's popularity does in fact show the difference and how race can be a factor. He isn't that interesting but he's much more popular than Jacob.

I read he was at least part asian, though most people think he's white.

Where did people get that idea?

I never read explicitly why people thought he was asian, but my guess is because his mother was exposed to eezo near Singapore or because Kaidan is a Japanese name (btw it is spelled Kaiden or Kaidan depending on where you look) though either does not necessarily mean he is asian.  Maybe someone else knows more and can comment.  I assumed he was white before I saw it on the boards.  Ultimately race matters less in what you actually are; people react to what they think you are.

Well besides the fact that Kaiden doesn't look remotely Asian, I think last names are what we shoud be looking at here. Whatever the case I'm sure the vast majority of people assume he's just a white guy. The sad reality is that race does still matter in a lot of ways.

[Aniki_21]

Beholderess wrote...

Hmm, it still seems to me that we simply mean different things by the same words, and that causes misunderstanding.
For me, a "good character" (in a game) is the one that provides entertainment. I might not particulary like some of my favourites as persons (like Morrigan, or Miranda). Actually, I might dream of an opportunity to hit them in a face. 3 times. With an iron tube. But they add spice in game, so to speak. Good characters provides moments of awesome, funny, heartwarming, or a tearjerker or two. Also, good character is fun to interact with, has different things to say depending on what PC tells them, and easily responds to player's poking, so to speak. It might not be a pleasant responce, but response non the less. A good character has some stories to tell hearing which makes me smile, or shed a tear, or go wow!

What is your definition of a good character? It seems to me that for you, a "good character" is a "good person". Am I mistaken?

What I think she's saying is basically that I character doesn't need to be a freakshow to be a good character. Sure there's nothing outrageous or crazy about Jacob. He's just a decent guy with morals and generally tries to do the right thing. Perhaps a little awkward with romance but still a solid character imo.