1527 réponses à ce sujet

[Estelindis]

JJames74 wrote...
I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

That never occurred to me before - but, now that you mention it, I think this is absolutely spot-on.   

You know, for a thread that had a less than promising premise, there have actually been quite a lot of intelligent and illuminating posts here!

[Markinator_123]

I call Jacob an idiot because his advice his always bad.



1. Tells to you go immediately to the reaper iff

2. Wants to space Legion

3. Volunteers himself for the vents (I mean, seriously?)

4. If the crew members are kidnapped, he wants to immediately save them even if there are more recruiting options available and Shepard is not adequately prepared.



He is also the most useless squadmate in the entire game. Kaidan was a crap character but Jacob is even worse.

[Bugsie]

Estelindis wrote...

JJames74 wrote...
I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

That never occurred to me before - but, now that you mention it, I think this is absolutely spot-on.   

You know, for a thread that had a less than promising premise, there have actually been quite a lot of intelligent and illuminating posts here!

If he had used a different term ie "patient" rather than "better" it wouldn't have come across as an insult.

[mosor]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I call Jacob an idiot because his advice his always bad.

1. Tells to you go immediately to the reaper iff
2. Wants to space Legion
3. Volunteers himself for the vents (I mean, seriously?)
4. If the crew members are kidnapped, he wants to immediately save them even if there are more recruiting options available and Shepard is not adequately prepared.

He is also the most useless squadmate in the entire game. Kaidan was a crap character but Jacob is even worse.

1. You're metagamming. His advice only looks bad in hindsight. Going for the reaper IFF to stop the collectors before they hit another colony is a practical thing to do. Seriously if you're in sheppards shoes, are you going to take the time for Thane to deal with his son, or are you going to get that IFF?

2. After what happened on the Alarei on Tali's mission? Even if you didn't do the mission, you know the geth are pretty good at highjacking systems. Knowing that its going to turn out well and saying Jacob is an idiot is just metagamming

3. he is just being heroic

4. You don't need your whole crew to survive the suicide mission. You're going to leave your comrades  to their fate? Thats not being an idiot. Thats knowing where your priorities are.

Jacob is far from being usless. He gives full pull, full fire ammo, and full passive. Thats damn good. Unless you're a vanguard or maybe a soldier, he is an excellent squaddie.

Modifié par mosor, 28 mai 2010 - 01:51 .

[Christmas Ape]

As an addendum to my previous list of reasons, another struck me - he feels like an afterthought in the squad.



A genius salarian biologist with experience in the Special Tasks Group.

A technical expert, sniper, and small squad strategist who's stayed alive against THREE hostile mercenary groups.

A gifted drell assassin with no intentions of coming back from the mission (always valuable).

The most powerful human biotic alive.

A krogan warlord with recent Collector contact (well, that was the plan).

A quarian engineer who trusts Shepard - and vice versa - and has apparently become a mission leader among her own people.

A geth collective that sought YOU out.

The galaxy's finest thief and one of its most famous bounty hunter/mercenaries.

An asari, for lack of a better description, killing machine.

A genetically perfected, biotically gifted intelligence operative and proxy for your boss.



Oh, yeah. And her assistant, who is basically here because the alternative was to fire him from the Lazarus cell. It feels like rather than standing in the Armory he should have a small desk outside Miranda's office.

[Markinator_123]

mosor wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

I call Jacob an idiot because his advice his always bad.

1. Tells to you go immediately to the reaper iff
2. Wants to space Legion
3. Volunteers himself for the vents (I mean, seriously?)
4. If the crew members are kidnapped, he wants to immediately save them even if there are more recruiting options available and Shepard is not adequately prepared.

He is also the most useless squadmate in the entire game. Kaidan was a crap character but Jacob is even worse.

1. You're metagamming. His advice only looks bad in hindsight. Going for the reaper IFF to stop the collectors before they hit another colony is a practical thing to do. Seriously if you're in sheppards shoes, are you going to take the time for Thane to deal with his son, or are you going to get that IFF?

2. After what happened on the Alarei on Tali's mission? Even if you didn't do the mission, you know the geth are pretty good at highjacking systems. Knowing that its going to turn out well and saying Jacob is an idiot is just metagamming

3. he is just being heroic

4. You don't need your whole crew to survive the suicide mission. You're going to leave your comrades  to their fate? Thats not being an idiot. Thats knowing where your priorities are.

Jacob is far from being usless. He gives full pull, full fire ammo, and full passive. Thats damn good. Unless you're a vanguard or maybe a soldier, he is an excellent squaddie.

1. That reaper IFF is not going anywhere. There is no rush to get it. This is the best time to make sure people are focused on the mission. You are told by the Illusive Man and Miranda that people need to be focused and committed to the mission. Why rush when you don't know what to expect?
2. I admit his fear is somewhat reasonable, but that is why Shepard makes sure EDI is adequately protected against any hacking attempts and if Legion can not be trusted then it can be put down. Nonetheless, no one has ever captured an intact geth before and spacing it as a first solution was not the most pragmatic approach.
3. He is being heroically stupid.
4. Your priorities are on stopping the collectors nothing else matters! Your crew signed on knowing the risks. Rushing in to save them when you are not prepared not only jeopardizes the mission but the fate of humanity as well.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 28 mai 2010 - 02:07 .

[Beholderess]

JJames74 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
let's talk about how you're not good enough for Miranda but think we should totally get together

I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

You might be right here.
Heh, English is not my first language, so perhaps I did take this too literally...But then again, English is a first language for most people in this thread, and quite a lot of them considered this expression to be unfavourable to Shepard...
Will have to check, I guess. But thanks for insight.

[Beholderess]

Buggirl70 wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

JJames74 wrote...
I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

That never occurred to me before - but, now that you mention it, I think this is absolutely spot-on.   

You know, for a thread that had a less than promising premise, there have actually been quite a lot of intelligent and illuminating posts here!

If he had used a different term ie "patient" rather than "better" it wouldn't have come across as an insult.

Indeed.
Bad writing?

[RGC_Ines]

hmm...In my situation it's becouse my female Shepard talking to him like brainless wh...re, and I don't like it. Don't care really if he is white, black, blue or whatever, just dialogs with him are terrible....

[mosor]

Markinator_123 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

I call Jacob an idiot because his advice his always bad.

1. Tells to you go immediately to the reaper iff
2. Wants to space Legion
3. Volunteers himself for the vents (I mean, seriously?)
4. If the crew members are kidnapped, he wants to immediately save them even if there are more recruiting options available and Shepard is not adequately prepared.

He is also the most useless squadmate in the entire game. Kaidan was a crap character but Jacob is even worse.

1. You're metagamming. His advice only looks bad in hindsight. Going for the reaper IFF to stop the collectors before they hit another colony is a practical thing to do. Seriously if you're in sheppards shoes, are you going to take the time for Thane to deal with his son, or are you going to get that IFF?

2. After what happened on the Alarei on Tali's mission? Even if you didn't do the mission, you know the geth are pretty good at highjacking systems. Knowing that its going to turn out well and saying Jacob is an idiot is just metagamming

3. he is just being heroic

4. You don't need your whole crew to survive the suicide mission. You're going to leave your comrades  to their fate? Thats not being an idiot. Thats knowing where your priorities are.

Jacob is far from being usless. He gives full pull, full fire ammo, and full passive. Thats damn good. Unless you're a vanguard or maybe a soldier, he is an excellent squaddie.

1. That reaper IFF is not going anywhere. There is no rush to get it. This is the best time to make sure people are focused on the mission. You are told by the Illusive Man and Miranda that people need to be focused and committed to the mission. Why rush when you don't know what to expect?
2. I admit his fear is somewhat reasonable, but that is why Shepard makes sure EDI is adequately protected against any hacking attempts and if Legion can not be trusted then it can be put down. Nonetheless, no one has ever captured an intact geth before and spacing it as a first solution was not the most pragmatic approach.
3. He is being heroically stupid.
4. Your priorities are on stopping the collectors nothing else matters! Your crew signed on knowing the risks. Rushing in to save them when you are not prepared not only jeopardizes the mission but the fate of humanity as well.

1. Your point 4 contradicts point 1. Stopping the collectors, nothing else matters. Therefore getting that IFF is a prioritity. Nothing else really matters,
2. Sure sheppard can take precautions, but it's still in jacobs words...heavy risk. Is it worth risking the mission without metagaming?
3. People engaging in heroics are generally not thinking things through. Thats why they are heroic.
4. Your priorities are to stop the collectors as soon as possible. You and your team signed up for that very same risk as the normandy crew. 

[Markinator_123]

1. That reaper IFF is not going anywhere. There is no rush to get it. This is the best time to make sure people are focused on the mission. You are told by the Illusive Man and Miranda that people need to be focused and committed to the mission. Why rush when you don't know what to expect?
2. I admit his fear is somewhat reasonable, but that is why Shepard makes sure EDI is adequately protected against any hacking attempts and if Legion can not be trusted then it can be put down. Nonetheless, no one has ever captured an intact geth before and spacing it as a first solution was not the most pragmatic approach.
3. He is being heroically stupid.
4. Your priorities are on stopping the collectors nothing else matters! Your crew signed on knowing the risks. Rushing in to save them when you are not prepared not only jeopardizes the mission but the fate of humanity as well.




1. Your point 4 contradicts point 1. Stopping the collectors, nothing else matters. Therefore getting that IFF is a prioritity. Nothing else really matters,
2. Sure sheppard can take precautions, but it's still in jacobs words...heavy risk. Is it worth risking the mission without metagaming?
3. People engaging in heroics are generally not thinking things through. Thats why they are heroic.
4. Your priorities are to stop the collectors as soon as possible. You and your team signed up for that very same risk as the normandy crew. 

The point of doing the loyalty missions is to make sure everyone is focused on the mission and to remove any distractions. That and saving the crew are not the same thing. The crew is not needed but your specialists are and they need to be soley focused on the mission. Saving the crew is a luxury.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 28 mai 2010 - 02:53 .

[mosor]

Markinator_123 wrote...

1. That reaper IFF is not going anywhere. There is no rush to get it. This is the best time to make sure people are focused on the mission. You are told by the Illusive Man and Miranda that people need to be focused and committed to the mission. Why rush when you don't know what to expect?
2. I admit his fear is somewhat reasonable, but that is why Shepard makes sure EDI is adequately protected against any hacking attempts and if Legion can not be trusted then it can be put down. Nonetheless, no one has ever captured an intact geth before and spacing it as a first solution was not the most pragmatic approach.
3. He is being heroically stupid.
4. Your priorities are on stopping the collectors nothing else matters! Your crew signed on knowing the risks. Rushing in to save them when you are not prepared not only jeopardizes the mission but the fate of humanity as well.




1. Your point 4 contradicts point 1. Stopping the collectors, nothing else matters. Therefore getting that IFF is a prioritity. Nothing else really matters,
2. Sure sheppard can take precautions, but it's still in jacobs words...heavy risk. Is it worth risking the mission without metagaming?
3. People engaging in heroics are generally not thinking things through. Thats why they are heroic.
4. Your priorities are to stop the collectors as soon as possible. You and your team signed up for that very same risk as the normandy crew. 

The point of doing the loyalty missions is to make sure everyone is focused on the mission and to remove any distractions. That and saving the crew are not the same thing. The crew is not needed but your specialists are and they need to be soley focused on the mission. Saving the crew is a luxury.

Loyalty missions are a luxury, not the other way around. The primary mission is stopping the collectors as soon as possible. The fact that you can save the reaper IFF for last and do everyone's loyalty to have everyone surive is metagamming. My point is that without metagamming, Jacobn makes reasonable suggestions, even if it turns out that by not following them you're better off.

[Nazomi]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I call Jacob an idiot because his advice his always bad.

1. Tells to you go immediately to the reaper iff
2. Wants to space Legion
3. Volunteers himself for the vents (I mean, seriously?)
4. If the crew members are kidnapped, he wants to immediately save them even if there are more recruiting options available and Shepard is not adequately prepared.

He is also the most useless squadmate in the entire game. Kaidan was a crap character but Jacob is even worse.

I like Jacob and i don't think he's useless at all. I especially appreciated him more on my first Insanity run but I was definitely thinking to myself "WTF?" about some of the suggestions the writers had him come up with. Those of which you have mentioned. To be fair Miranda advises you to hand Legion to Cerberus which i think is worse than Jacbo's suggestion.

[Sharn01]

JJames74 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
let's talk about how you're not good enough for Miranda but think we should totally get together

I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

I disagree, I think it was designed as a way for Jacob to bow out to a maleShep acknowledging that he is top dog in case the player wishes to persue Miranda, when they left it in for femShep it came across as insulting, but so does just about any femShep dialog with Jacob.

[Urazz]

Sharn01 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
let's talk about how you're not good enough for Miranda but think we should totally get together

I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

I disagree, I think it was designed as a way for Jacob to bow out to a maleShep acknowledging that he is top dog in case the player wishes to persue Miranda, when they left it in for femShep it came across as insulting, but so does just about any femShep dialog with Jacob.

Just goes to show you that they designed the game for Male Shepards in mind first and then just make the Female Shepard afterwards.  At least it feels that way to me with Jacob as the biggest example of this.  The lines that feel insulting with Female Shepard and Jacob don't sound bad when it's with Male Shepard since that's supposed to come off more as a 'best bud' kind of relationship much like Male Shepard has with Garrus.

[Sharn01]

Bioware has gotten a lot better about it over the years. Despite my belief that it is overall their best game, if you have ever played BGII as anything other then a male human fighter there are large portions of dialog that make little to no sense at all.

They did an excellent job making the game mostly seamless for a female player in DA:O and both ME games over all, with very little to complain about in that regard in either game. I have yet to play it due to the complete lack of any continuity, but I understand DA:A did a horrible job, with npc's rarely even acknowledging the characters race let alone sex, I hope its a hiccup and nothing more.

I do not really feel the Jacob thing falls into that category, if you have played a femShep its obvious they intended to force the Jacob romance for whatever reason onto the player, which I believe is the real reason he has such poor popularity. There is a huge difference between how Jacob is viewed between maleShep and femShep players, for the most part he seems to fall between indifferent to liked by the former, where as the latter he falls between hated to indifferent, with very few people who like him.

Modifié par Sharn01, 29 mai 2010 - 06:22 .

[Nazomi]

Sharn01 wrote...

Bioware has gotten a lot better about it over the years. Despite my belief that it is overall their best game, if you have ever played BGII as anything other then a male human fighter there are large portions of dialog that make little to no sense at all.

They did an excellent job making the game mostly seamless for a female player in DA:O and both ME games over all, with very little to complain about in that regard in either game. I have yet to play it due to the complete lack of any continuity, but I understand DA:A did a horrible job, with npc's rarely even acknowledging the characters race let alone sex, I hope its a hiccup and nothing more.

I do not really feel the Jacob thing falls into that category, if you have played a femShep its obvious they intended to force the Jacob romance for whatever reason onto the player, which I believe is the real reason he has such poor popularity. There is a huge difference between how Jacob is viewed between maleShep and femShep players, for the most part he seems to fall between indifferent to liked by the former, where as the latter he falls between hated to indifferent, with very few people who like him.

I don't agree with that assessment. Most of the people I've seen complaining about Jacob are guys. Sure some girls have complained about the romance but as far as Jacob in general the dislike for him is largely coming from guys.

[Beholderess]

Guys play femshep too, sometimes

[MerrickShep]

ILALQ wrote...

Madi wrote...
Jacob is a relatively basic
character with nothing incredibly interesting about him..."

You said it right there. Honestly, he could have been one of the best characters in the game had be been fleshed out more. The ball got dropped on Jacob - multiple times. He's boring (for the most part), has a TERRIBLE romance, and no reason to interact with him is ever really given. It also doesn't help that my femshep seems like she wants to jump him every time she says a word to him.  He has potential though, and hopefully he won't be so flat if he returns in ME3.

Yeah what was up with that it turned me off of talking to him with FemShep it's like it's trying to force you to love him when i'd ratehr stay with Kaiden or go for one of the morei nterestin LI's in ME2

[JJames74]

Sharn01 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
let's talk about how you're not good enough for Miranda but think we should totally get together

I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

I disagree, I think it was designed as a way for Jacob to bow out to a maleShep acknowledging that he is top dog in case the player wishes to persue Miranda, when they left it in for femShep it came across as insulting, but so does just about any femShep dialog with Jacob.

I agree that the game was designed with maleshep in mind, but I think the expression fits too well given Miranda's personality.

[Bugsie]

MerrickShep wrote...

ILALQ wrote...

Madi wrote...
Jacob is a relatively basic
character with nothing incredibly interesting about him..."

You said it right there. Honestly, he could have been one of the best characters in the game had be been fleshed out more. The ball got dropped on Jacob - multiple times. He's boring (for the most part), has a TERRIBLE romance, and no reason to interact with him is ever really given. It also doesn't help that my femshep seems like she wants to jump him every time she says a word to him.  He has potential though, and hopefully he won't be so flat if he returns in ME3.

Yeah what was up with that it turned me off of talking to him with FemShep it's like it's trying to force you to love him when i'd ratehr stay with Kaiden or go for one of the morei nterestin LI's in ME2

I have played the game through several times now and really Jacob isnt that bad a character  and to be honest I don't think he is that boring either, I do think he is the most poorly written and thats a shame because his story is wide open.  I keep thinking that maybe Bioware was too aware that he was a black man - and that maybe why they were cautious with his character.  My initial attraction to him was oooh nice but ended up repulsed by the cheesy sleazy  dialogue - but if you talk more, rather than flirt (which is bloody hard to do when your a Femshep) its actually not too bad.  On my 5th playthrough now (playing my Manshep and I rather like him).
 

Beholderess wrote...

Guys play femshep too, sometimes

In response to your earlier post Beholderess - yes poor writing definitely had a role to play.

Lots of guys play as femshep!  A good (male) friend of mine usually plays as male in RPG's but has gone renegade with his Femshep and is lovin' it!

 

[Beholderess]

Hmmm, I think that males might feel even more uncomfortable when their female char is forced into romance than females...But that's pure speculation on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Nazomi]

JJames74 wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

JJames74 wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
let's talk about how you're not good enough for Miranda but think we should totally get together

I think a lot of people take what Jacob says about Miranda too literally and haven't heard the expression before.  Taken literally it does sound like an insult to Shepard, but it isn't meant that way.  When he says that Miranda deserves a better man than him, he isn't saying she is too good for him.  He is saying he doesn't have the strength, patience, etc to deal with her.  She is too demanding, high maintenance, or something like that and it wasn't worth the trouble.  At least that is how I have heard that expression used before.

I disagree, I think it was designed as a way for Jacob to bow out to a maleShep acknowledging that he is top dog in case the player wishes to persue Miranda, when they left it in for femShep it came across as insulting, but so does just about any femShep dialog with Jacob.

I agree that the game was designed with maleshep in mind, but I think the expression fits too well given Miranda's personality.

Mass Effect just like most games are desinged with the male option in mind as a priority which is understandable. It would be nice for it to be the other way around for a change though.

[HTTP 404]

who cares??

[Nazomi]

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

who cares??

Umm well besides myself I'm sure there are quite a few people actually and not just girls either.

Modifié par Nazomi, 30 mai 2010 - 08:41 .