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[enormousmoonboots]

Jacob is black Kaidan. I was equally bored by Kaidan. Jacob had potential, but he's really inconsistent, particularly his romance/interactions with Femshep.



He had a really poor excuse for working with Cerberus ("I know they have a rep as a terrorist group, but the Illusive Man knows I disapprove. I'm sure he weighs every decision he makes by what I think of it. He definitely cares about my opinions." I wanted to slap him so hard--and you can never even call him out on it).



But people who exclusively play male Shep really like him, since he comes off as the one person on the crew who has all his **** together, so he makes a good bro. It's really only talking to Femshep that he gets all...you know, ****ing crazy. He reacts to her initial advances fine (pretty much 'um wat', which was my reaction too, since the dialog wheel option I picked was 'hello' and Shep was all 'TAKE ME NOW'), and the fact that he's the one romance who actually asks how Shep is feeling is rather nice, but his final scene is just cringe-inducing. Actually, I think that he'd have been a nice romance option, a good 'everyman'--if not for the way Femshep talks to him at the beginning.



I just don't know what went into it. They really stacked the deck in his favor; he's the only female romance who get a post-suicide mission romance conversation (with a kiss, IIRC? or almost-kiss. Tali is the only other character with a post-suicide mission romance chat), he asks how Shepard is feeling, he's with you since the beginning, he's got a heavy serving of beefcake fanservice, all the makings of a good love interest--and yet Bioware takes a wild left turn into ****ING CRAZYTOWN and...well...see the female romance poll in my sig for the final result.

[UsagiVindaloo]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Jacob is black Kaidan. I was equally bored by Kaidan. Jacob had potential, but he's really inconsistent, particularly his romance/interactions with Femshep.
.

Would strongly disagree with this. Jacob and Kaidan are not similar at all, for the reasons I went into before: while Kaidan has plenty of character hooks and strong character traits (e.g. the headaches, being sexually conservative, nervousness about his power due to the turian instructor incident, cautiousness, refusal to whine about his past too much, etc), Jacob doesn't really have any standout attributes. It's very easy to describe Kaidan even if you don't like him, while Jacob is more elusive and vague in his characterization. 

[jlb524]

I think that most that have a problem with Jacob are FemShep players b/c:



1) The romance is practically forced on you.

2) If you do pick the romance, his dialog is quite bad at the end ('the priiiiize', really?)



I like Jacob as a friend and squad mate and have thus gotten past the fact that my non-interested FemShep sounds like a floozy when talking to him.

[enormousmoonboots]

Like I said, Kaidan just never appealed to me. It seemed like all of his character 'hooks' were all things that he'd already dealt with. "I have headaches, but they're not as bad as they could be." "I've had an unusual past, but I've already grown up and moved past it." "I'm a biotic, but not one that's super strong."



zzzzzz oh god were you still talking? good, didn't miss anything.



It's just that he doesn't seem to need you, emotionally. I know that sounds kind of skeevy, but I did his romance and just didn't feel any real passion from him. Hell, the romance starts just by having a friendly conversation and he goes 'I really feel a connection here!' Wait, what? He interacts a little better with male Shepard, since you don't really expect any serious emotional attachment from him.

[Speakeasy13]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Like I said, Kaidan just never appealed to me. It seemed like all of his character 'hooks' were all things that he'd already dealt with. "I have headaches, but they're not as bad as they could be." "I've had an unusual past, but I've already grown up and moved past it." "I'm a biotic, but not one that's super strong."

zzzzzz oh god were you still talking? good, didn't miss anything.

It's just that he doesn't seem to need you, emotionally. I know that sounds kind of skeevy, but I did his romance and just didn't feel any real passion from him. Hell, the romance starts just by having a friendly conversation and he goes 'I really feel a connection here!' Wait, what? He interacts a little better with male Shepard, since you don't really expect any serious emotional attachment from him.

Again, you may like it or hate it (and that seems to be highly correlated to your own gender), but the personality is there. The same can't be said about Jacob. There's no emotional connection AT ALL, as you said it yourself.

[UsagiVindaloo]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Like I said, Kaidan just never appealed to me. It seemed like all of his character 'hooks' were all things that he'd already dealt with. "I have headaches, but they're not as bad as they could be." "I've had an unusual past, but I've already grown up and moved past it." "I'm a biotic, but not one that's super strong."

zzzzzz oh god were you still talking? good, didn't miss anything.

It's just that he doesn't seem to need you, emotionally. I know that sounds kind of skeevy, but I did his romance and just didn't feel any real passion from him. Hell, the romance starts just by having a friendly conversation and he goes 'I really feel a connection here!' Wait, what? He interacts a little better with male Shepard, since you don't really expect any serious emotional attachment from him.

That's fair enough. Sorry, should have clarified that I can see why people might not like Kaidan, but I don't think he's anything like Jacob at all. Although you do make an interesting point about one point they share: they move on from their past trauma reasonably well, which some people like and some people find a bit meh. 

I liked the Kaidan romance partly because of that lack of "need", as you say... I took it more as two mature and "with it" people deciding that, hey, they like each other and choosing to run with it. But I can see where you're coming from. 


EDIT: To me, I think the difference is between Kaidan having a personality that turns some people off and Jacob (arguably) having little/no personality to begin with. 

Modifié par UsagiVindaloo, 12 avril 2010 - 05:17 .

[Collider]

Some like it when their partner "needs" them. It makes them feel special, and a part of that person. Some people don't like that, though, and that's understandable too.

[KnotEngaged]

Jacob is a perfectly serviceable character...as long as you're not Femshep. He gets along famously with all my Mansheps.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Collider wrote...

Some like it when their partner "needs" them. It makes them feel special, and a part of that person. Some people don't like that, though, and that's understandable too.

Very true. And sometimes people actually like both, just in different ways. Me, I adore both the Kaidan romance and the Thane romance despite them being totally different. The relationship with Kaidan feels warm, reassuring, and peaceful, with both parties remaining independent but still in love with each other. The relationship with Thane, in contrast, feels a lot more intense and emotional, with that element of "need" to it that makes it really dizzying and heartwrenching; you feel like they really need each other and as such forge a very strong connection. 

As far as Jacob goes, he doesn't seem to "need" Shepard either, and that's fine... that's not the problem, vampy!FemShep and THE PRIIIIZE are.

[LostInSanity]

As I MaleShep I find Jacob to be the kinda guy I would go have a beer with. But going to go kick collecter ass? Not so much.

He is just so... I dont know... normal? when put beside the rest of the crew.

[Collider]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...
As far as Jacob goes, he doesn't seem to "need" Shepard either, and that's fine... that's not the problem, vampy!FemShep and THE PRIIIIZE are.

If one endeavors to give Jacob some slack though, from what I've seen (I have not watched the whole romance I think, maybe I did but I'm not sure) femShep never really goes beyond implying lust aside from some of the ways you can respond to "how are you." Which, although it does not make excusable, makes the priize thing a little less surprising. I don't know BW was thinking. Some build up would have been better, have Hale speak normally and just have the romance build up over time, don't have femshep would the succubus at the start (or maybe ever).

[Inquisitor Recon]

Jacob unpopular? You humans are all racist!

[Skilled Seeker]

LostInSanity wrote...

As I MaleShep I find Jacob to be the kinda guy I would go have a beer with. But going to go kick collecter ass? Not so much.
He is just so... I dont know... normal? when put beside the rest of the crew.

Ues you need insane psychopaths in order to fight aliens that makes sense.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Collider wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...
As far as Jacob goes, he doesn't seem to "need" Shepard either, and that's fine... that's not the problem, vampy!FemShep and THE PRIIIIZE are.

If one endeavors to give Jacob some slack though, from what I've seen (I have not watched the whole romance I think, maybe I did but I'm not sure) femShep never really goes beyond implying lust aside from some of the ways you can respond to "how are you." Which, although it does not make excusable, makes the priize thing a little less surprising. I don't know BW was thinking. Some build up would have been better, have Hale speak normally and just have the romance build up over time, don't have femshep would the succubus at the start (or maybe ever).

Yes, that's true. In some ways, THE PRIIIIZE just fits in with the whole really weird vocal landscape Hale had going on... doesn't make it less skeevy, just makes the whole thing slightly questionable. I hear you on the fact that the dialog itself doesn't imply much, but someone must have made the call to have Hale drip sex all over the conversation. The first time I tried asking about him, the "I'm more interested in just talking for a bit," made me headdesk. 

If Hale had dialled it down a bit (okay, a lot) and they'd removed the one line about the prize, I think it could have been a good romance. It had a few things going for it, not least of which that Jacob is one of the only LIs or squaddies that bother to ask how you're holding up (he's considerate at least!). It still probably would be an unpopular romance due to Jacob's lack of character hooks, but it wouldn't get anywhere near the hate it does now.

[GodWood]

I personally don't know where people got this "bro" thing from, I found him to be the most stand-offish and most unlikely canididate for being a friend.

[UsagiVindaloo]

GodWood wrote...

I personally don't know where people got this "bro" thing from, I found him to be the most stand-offish and most unlikely canididate for being a friend.

I found he was... inconsistent in this regard. There were some conversations I had with him that seemed perfectly friendly and cool and "bro" like. Then there were others where, as you said, he seemed standoffish and reserved. And they didn't seem to be in any order (ie it wasn't like he started off standoffish and got warmer and more open as it went).

[Jackal904]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

EDIT:  On all seriousness a lot of people find him fine its just that many do not find him interesting enough as the other characters, and that for Female players his encounters and romance are off putting.  I don't think race is  an issue.  Kaiden is not a white guy for example.

^ This. I do not hate him. I just wish he would lighten up a bit.

[IoneWanderer101]

TeenZombie wrote...

People wouldn't appreciate Conrad Verner as a squadmate or a love interest, either (except as a goof, I'm guessing), and he's got blond hair and blue eyes. Does shooting Conrad in the foot mean anything, racially???

People don't like Jacob because of his writing, and the voice acting from FemShep while talking to him turns people off even more. I think he's fine as a buddy character, but no, he's not particularly interesting.

People also tend to not like the Human Male Party Member, which is why he's being compared to Kaidan. Human Males who are not the protagonist are boring to some people, by default, in a video game, and even if they did have a great background story, those people wouldn't bother to find out more about the character. So Jacob was kind of doomed from the start, and his dialogue and loyalty mission didn't help.

Not Zaeed, never Zaeed, he's anything but boring.

[Mikeuicus]

I think Jacob is the most "normal" of all the characters. Aside from his biotics, he's a pretty simple guy and he doesn't have any big emotional hangups to whine about like the rest of the crew. I actually like the guy and how he saluted at the end of every meeting. The only part that made me cringe was when you max out all his conversations he starts saying:



"Yo, we good Shepard" or something like that. It was third wall breaking for me.

[Apollo Rising]

GodWood wrote...

I personally don't know where people got this "bro" thing from, I found him to be the most stand-offish and most unlikely canididate for being a friend.

Different strokes....I found him to be cool as ice. Jacob respects and looks up to my Shepard and has a few things in common with him also.
That one line he utters after my shep told him he appreciates his honesty, Jacob says"that honors me more than you". He even respects my authority by saluting...some posters hate this, to me its a form of mutual respect.
So what, the brotha has cheesy bedroom talk,I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear some of you Mac Daddys and your steller bedroom dialouge. At least he wasn't all teary eyed and crying like Thane...hell even Garrus had the corny music(it was funny though)cut the brotha a little slack.

[Estelindis]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I personally don't know where people got this "bro" thing from, I found him to be the most stand-offish and most unlikely canididate for being a friend.

I found he was... inconsistent in this regard. There were some conversations I had with him that seemed perfectly friendly and cool and "bro" like. Then there were others where, as you said, he seemed standoffish and reserved. And they didn't seem to be in any order (ie it wasn't like he started off standoffish and got warmer and more open as it went).

I agree with this too.

I have begun to wonder if this isn't intentional.  If you talk to Jack about Jacob and Miranda, she comments that Jacob doesn't really know who he is.  When you think about it, he has been wandering around quite a bit looking for something to do with his life that he can feel gives it meaning.  He's with Cerberus because they seem to get things done more efficiently than the Alliance, but there are times when he seems to have reservations.  Perhaps some of his wishy-washiness comes from an underlying uncertainty about where he really stands in life (but one that is "shown" rather than "told").

[IoneWanderer101]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

LostInSanity wrote...

As I MaleShep I find Jacob to be the kinda guy I would go have a beer with. But going to go kick collecter ass? Not so much.
He is just so... I dont know... normal? when put beside the rest of the crew.

Ues you need insane psychopaths in order to fight aliens that makes sense.

^^^^ as did your post.

Modifié par IoneWanderer101, 12 avril 2010 - 06:16 .

[Alraiis]

This post already? I'm not big on forcing these talks....

[angryunicorn]

Black guys are boring for a white femshep. We only like aariens (aliens)