1527 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Why do people always pull racist card when black guy is disliked?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Anderson was more of a Colin Powell type of person.



Jacob? The only crewmate that salutes you? After he tells you how things are different on a Cerberus ship, and that Cerberus doesn't forbid fraternization. More of a "family" operation. Still you can romance him to death and he still salutes you. I think they made him a little too one dimensional. But I found him to be a good person, and we were picking up some scum along the way -- like Jack, Zaeed. And between Jack and Samara (Jack's opposite) why did I feel like I had a loaded gun pointed at my head the entire time? I liked Jacob. I just think they could have done better, and used less of a stereotype of a father. And Jacob did have the best abs on the ship.



But Zaeed is like me except he takes checks?



I would have liked more interaction with the Doctor. Not romantic, but just kind of like in a "Bones" kind of way, someone you could bounce ideas off in a little more private section of the ship rather than the ships psychologist, Kelly right there in CIC.

[frylock23]

My 2 cents:



I was primed to like Jacob and romance him with at least one of my Sheps before I even saw him. I guess there;s something about a guy who gets bad press at the outset that makes me determined to go against the conventional wisdom.



Then, I got in-game. I actually had no idea of Jacob's ethnicity even though I knew there was a general overtone of dislike on the forums. For some reason, I had thought it was because Jacob was going to be a geeky, cerebral sort. Then I saw the soldier at Lazarus Station, and my first thought was "this isn't going to be as painful as I thought it might be." In other words, I think Jacob is reasonably good-looking. And at first, things seemed to be going fairly pleasantly too. Then you get on the Normany and between my Shepard mysteriously going into heat every time she attempted to talk to him and Jacob's rebuffs (I can't blame him, I'd shoot down anyone who came onto me like that, too), I just couldn;t grit my teeth and bear it any longer. He doesn't want to listen to me, and I don't want to listen to me. Therefore, I'll just take his advice and leave him alone.



For the record, I don't dislike Jacob. I also don't dislike any of the other ME2 characters, except maybe Jack, but I also wsn't that engaged by them ... any of them. My femsheps are all Kaidan loyal except the one who left him on Virmire, and she's just plain celibate. Thanks, Developers and Writers, for making the romances in ME2 just plain shallow.

[Privateerkev]

Nazomi wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

kregano wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Seriously though for all the people complaining about how uninteresting Jacob is they really haven't made any suggestions on what could have made him more interesting. Exactly what areas do you think his character lacks?

(sigh) I'm sorry, but are you sure we're reading the same thread??? There've been quite a lot of suggestions about what could be done to improve Jacob, repeated by several people over and over and over. Make him talk about his past more, rewrite his romance, add more useful skills and make his loyalty mission actually change something about him, for starters. Nightwriter's post is an exellent summary.

To be fair, if one looked at the last few pages before this one, there was a lot of "why isn't this thread locked" and stuff about people being racist on other forums. I think the last post about what could be done about Jacob was in the range of page 40 to 50.

Fair enough.
But Nazomi been active in this thread from the beginning, and thus seen all the suggestions that were made before. Not to mention that this exact question (what should be done to improve Jacob) was specifically asked. And answered. Why that answer was ignored is...well, it's another question=)


Honrestly, I don't know what else can be said. This thread seems to be running in circles, with no new arguements from either side added since page 25 or so.

Yet people keep religiously bumping it. Can't any/all of this be taken into the Jacob thread? If this were about any other character, the mods would have locked this thread on exactly those grounds.

Really? What exactly do you think makesJacob special?

To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.

Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.

Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.

Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.

My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

Modifié par Privateerkev, 29 juin 2010 - 10:17 .

[didymos1120]

Privateerkev wrote...
Yet people keep religiously bumping it.

Strangely, a whole lot of those people seem to be named "Nazomi"....

[Spornicus]

Madi wrote...

The big elephant in the room here that no one wants to talk about is the fact that Jacob is black. Now before you start getting ultra defensive and start accusing me of reverse racism I’d like to point out that I’m biracial and have no racial biases of any kind.  Secondly I’m not saying the reason that Jacob  is such a  massively unpopular is because the people who don’t like Jacob are inherently racist. However that doesn’t mean that the fact that Jacob is black isn’t a factor. In fact I would say it’s a significant factor.

I think it’s probably largely subconscious. Jacob is a relatively basic character with nothing incredibly interesting about him although still a much more solid, well rounded character than you’ll find in most games. The issue is I think that most white gamers just find it difficult to relate to black characters. I think that’s one of the main reasons why black characters are so rare in video games and actual black protagonists are nearly nonexistent in video games.Especially non- stereotypical characters (i.e. C.J. from GTA)  Can you honestly tell me that if Jacob was a suave white guy he’d be this unpopular? Just look at Kaden who Jacob is commonly compared to.  Most people seem to agree that he isn’t much more if at all more interesting a character than Jacob yet he’s still infinitely more popular than Jacob. Once again that doesn’t mean that you’re a racist but I just think it clearly shows that race plays a factor in a lot of things, whether subconscious or otherwise. Although I think the fact that he bears a strong resemblance to Kanye West didn’t really help either. I don’t really get why his look was changed so dramatically from Mass Effect Galaxy. It’s like he’s a completely different person.

http://masseffect.bi.../market/galaxy/

So, if you're biracial, you can't be racist? That's all I got from this.

[mopotter]

I like Jacob as a character. What I don't like is the way Shepard sounds when she talks to him. That puts me off.

[Sharn01]

kregano wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Seriously though for all the people complaining about how uninteresting Jacob is they really haven't made any suggestions on what could have made him more interesting. Exactly what areas do you think his character lacks?

(sigh) I'm sorry, but are you sure we're reading the same thread??? There've been quite a lot of suggestions about what could be done to improve Jacob, repeated by several people over and over and over. Make him talk about his past more, rewrite his romance, add more useful skills and make his loyalty mission actually change something about him, for starters. Nightwriter's post is an exellent summary.

To be fair, if one looked at the last few pages before this one, there was a lot of "why isn't this thread locked" and stuff about people being racist on other forums. I think the last post about what could be done about Jacob was in the range of page 40 to 50.

Its mostly because people like myself have repeated themselves so many times its not worth doing it again.  You make a post saying exactly what aspects of Jacob you did not like, which any one with half a brain could take as a suggestion as a change in and of itself, and some of the posts even have detailed suggestions for character improvement.  Yet without fail there will soon be a post saying how no one gives good reasons for disliking Jacob and apparantly have no suggestions on how to improve him. 

Because of this the majority of the suggestions have fallen to the early pages, with a few people popping in to copy paste their previous post every so often.  If you make a post asking why people dislike Jacob and then allude it to racism, you need evidence to back it up other then if you dislike a black man you must be racist, and you cant simply dismiss the posts of numerous people just because they disagree with you, if they have given their reasons for disliking Jacob then they are valid, even if you do not share their view.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Privateerkev wrote...
To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.
Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.
Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.
Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.
My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

The ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thread got poo-pooed aswell. Was all Harbinger memes. Not sure why they deleted the the Tali face thread, thought they would have locked it.
I am surprised they haven't closed this thread. There is no new content here at all.

Hmm, i think this IS THE JACOB THREAD i guess

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 30 juin 2010 - 03:16 .

[Privateerkev]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...
To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.

Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.

Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.

Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.
My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

The ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thread got poo-pooed aswell. Was all Harbinger memes. Not sure why they deleted the the Tali face thread, thought they would have locked it.
I am surprised they haven't closed this thread. There is no new content here at all.

Hmm, i think this IS THE JACOB THREAD i guess

The people in this thread might disagree. As for the harbinger thread, yeah I'm not shocked that one was deleted. But the new face thread? It was very on-topic and I'm pretty sure it wasn't spam... yet. But it was deleted so I don't know what the mods' reasons were. Also, another "what's with Kaiden/Ash" thread got locked too. But no reason was given. (could have been solely because it was a necro.)

Modifié par Privateerkev, 30 juin 2010 - 12:14 .

[Raizo]

As a coloured person ( Mom is black, Dad is white ) I can stand hear and say that Jacob being an unpopular character has nothing to do with his skin colour. To be blunt, out of all the potential squadmates he is the most boring or to be more exact there isn't anything about him that makes him standout.

[vehzeel]

My biggest problem with him is that he lacks a debuff for Insanity mode. If he had Warp or Overload he'd be invaluable. Imagine him with Barrier, Squad Incendiary Ammo and a debuff. He'd be perfect for protection against those CQC enemies.

[Sajuro]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Anderson was more of a Colin Powell type of person.

Jacob? The only crewmate that salutes you? After he tells you how things are different on a Cerberus ship, and that Cerberus doesn't forbid fraternization. More of a "family" operation. Still you can romance him to death and he still salutes you.

That's because femshep makes him stand at attention

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Privateerkev wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...
To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.

Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.

Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.

Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.
My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

The ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thread got poo-pooed aswell. Was all Harbinger memes. Not sure why they deleted the the Tali face thread, thought they would have locked it.
I am surprised they haven't closed this thread. There is no new content here at all.

Hmm, i think this IS THE JACOB THREAD i guess

The people in this thread might disagree. As for the harbinger thread, yeah I'm not shocked that one was deleted. But the new face thread? It was very on-topic and I'm pretty sure it wasn't spam... yet. But it was deleted so I don't know what the mods' reasons were. Also, another "what's with Kaiden/Ash" thread got locked too. But no reason was given. (could have been solely because it was a necro.)

Yeah good point.. then what role this thread plays I have no idea

[Privateerkev]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...
To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.

Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.

Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.

Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.
My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

The ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thread got poo-pooed aswell. Was all Harbinger memes. Not sure why they deleted the the Tali face thread, thought they would have locked it.
I am surprised they haven't closed this thread. There is no new content here at all.

Hmm, i think this IS THE JACOB THREAD i guess

The people in this thread might disagree. As for the harbinger thread, yeah I'm not shocked that one was deleted. But the new face thread? It was very on-topic and I'm pretty sure it wasn't spam... yet. But it was deleted so I don't know what the mods' reasons were. Also, another "what's with Kaiden/Ash" thread got locked too. But no reason was given. (could have been solely because it was a necro.)

Yeah good point.. then what role this thread plays I have no idea

Come to think of it, if the thread is allowed to live, it should at least be moved. This is clearly a character thread in the storyline forum. Unless people are going to claim Jacob being black is part of the story.

[Nazomi]

Complain about Jacob all you want but he definitely had one of the most interesting loyalty mission. Here's a few examples from some characters who are more popular. Jack= i want to blow up a building because i had bad memories there. Garrus =i need to kill i guy for betraying me. Zaeed= Exactly the same as Garrus.

[Aniki_21]

Privateerkev wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...
To the mods? Possibly his lack of popularity. Around here the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The rest pretty much gets ignored. But there is a double-standard.

Here are 5 threads where mods locked it on the grounds that the topic should be discussed in that character's fan thread.  (I lifted this from a previous post.) The mods have a long standing rule of locking multiple threads about the same character.

Also the "If this is what Tali looks like" thread has been deleated today. So, with some characters, the mods only allow one thread. But with Jacob, this one has been allowed to survive for far too long. Even the "tali face joke thread" finally got locked.

Quite simply, discussion of Jacob should go on in the Jacob thread. Even if it is negative. Woo has said before the "fan threads" are for negative discussion as well as long as it is civil.
My issue is with the double-standard. The mods are hardly around. And when they are, the rules do not always get applied evenly.

The ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thread got poo-pooed aswell. Was all Harbinger memes. Not sure why they deleted the the Tali face thread, thought they would have locked it.
I am surprised they haven't closed this thread. There is no new content here at all.

Hmm, i think this IS THE JACOB THREAD i guess

The people in this thread might disagree. As for the harbinger thread, yeah I'm not shocked that one was deleted. But the new face thread? It was very on-topic and I'm pretty sure it wasn't spam... yet. But it was deleted so I don't know what the mods' reasons were. Also, another "what's with Kaiden/Ash" thread got locked too. But no reason was given. (could have been solely because it was a necro.)

Yeah good point.. then what role this thread plays I have no idea

Come to think of it, if the thread is allowed to live, it should at least be moved. This is clearly a character thread in the storyline forum. Unless people are going to claim Jacob being black is part of the story.

Well if you're going to complain about this thread on the grounds of being to character centric as appose to storyline driven then you need to go complain about the other character based threads in this section as well.

[Sharn01]

There is very little character or story discussion in the character fan threads, there may be some rare posts that contribute, but most of the posts are utter nonsense designed to bump the threads to as many pages as possible. Any serious discussion in those threads will get buried quickly, while the conversation in this thread has gone in circles for some time it is an actual discussion at least, which makes it worth checking on every so often to see if it is moving forward,.



I support this thread because improving Jacob as a character would make my ME3 experiance more enjoyable, they certainly cant do worse then his portrayal in ME2. Even if Jacob is relegated to a cameo appearance in ME3 they can learn from their mistakes when developing other characters.

[didymos1120]

Nazomi wrote...

Complain about Jacob all you want but he definitely had one of the most interesting loyalty mission. Here's a few examples from some characters who are more popular. Jack= i want to blow up a building because i had bad memories there. Garrus =i need to kill i guy for betraying me. Zaeed= Exactly the same as Garrus.

Jacob: I want to go look for my dad, even though I don't really care.  Oh, look: he's a complete jerk.  That sucks.  Let's go.  No, I don't  want to talk about it.  Why would I?  It's not like this has had any impact on my character at all or was even particularly connected to anything that happened in my past.  As far as I was concerned, dude was just dead and I wasn't even that upset when he disappeared.  Oh, but I don't really explain any of this crap particularly well because I'm Jacob Taylor, damn it, and I'm not big on forcing these talks.  *salutes Shep*

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 juin 2010 - 11:50 .

[Worrywort]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nazomi wrote...

Complain about Jacob all you want but he definitely had one of the most interesting loyalty mission. Here's a few examples from some characters who are more popular. Jack= i want to blow up a building because i had bad memories there. Garrus =i need to kill i guy for betraying me. Zaeed= Exactly the same as Garrus.

Jacob: I want to go look for my dad, even though I don't really care.  Oh, look: he's a complete jerk.  That sucks.  Let's go.  No, I don't  want to talk about it.  Why would I?  It's not like this has had any impact on my character at all or was even particularly connected to anything that happened in my past.  As far as I was concerned, dude was just dead and I wasn't even that upset when he disappeared.  Oh, but I don't really explain any of this crap particularly well because I'm Jacob Taylor, damn it, and I'm not big on forcing these talks.  *salutes Shep*

Did I mention I don't really trust Cerberus, and don't like the alliance?  I was on Eden Prime, you know. No, I'm not going to talk to you about it, even though you are "the hero of Eden Prime".

[Beholderess]

Nazomi wrote...

Complain about Jacob all you want but he definitely had one of the most interesting loyalty mission. Here's a few examples from some characters who are more popular. Jack= i want to blow up a building because i had bad memories there. Garrus =i need to kill i guy for betraying me. Zaeed= Exactly the same as Garrus.

It's not about his mission in itself - it is rather fun, actually. Thing is, it has zero impact on Jacob's personality. He stays exactly the same after it, and there's nothing new we learn about him. For comparison - Miranda shows her softer side, the one that capable of love, care about others and trust, even irrational trust. Her reasons for joining Cerberus also become clearer. Jack's mission - shows that she is not as badass as she thinks she is. Shows her that shedid not survive because she was the toughest. Brings her some closure. Makes her regard Shepard as an ok guy. Garrus's - makes him re-examine his values and admit that there is much "gray" in the world (if Paragon), or gives him closure (if Renegade). Zaeed - heh, if Paragon, you have an opportunity to smack some sence into his head, and it sticks.

As for Jacob/ Before loyalty - considers his dad dead, respects Shepard but isn't going to be friendly or open to him/her. After loyalty - Jacob's dad is still dead (or imprisoned), his opinion about his dad did not change. Still respects Shepard but is not willing to get close.

[AjaxDuo]

I think it's because unless your fem shep or don't interact with him enough his personality seems that of a goldfish. I like him though his dialogue makes me chuckle sometimes. But the priize hah

[Privateerkev]

Aniki_21 wrote...

*pyramidsnip*

Well if you're going to complain about this thread on the grounds of being to character centric as appose to storyline driven then you need to go complain about the other character based threads in this section as well.

This is the only one I've seen stick around for any length of time lately. Though I would support moving any and all "character" threads over to the new forum. One should be consistent. Anything else to add besides telling me what I need to do and adding a "winky-winky?"

[Privateerkev]

Sharn01 wrote...

There is very little character or story discussion in the character fan threads, there may be some rare posts that contribute, but most of the posts are utter nonsense designed to bump the threads to as many pages as possible. Any serious discussion in those threads will get buried quickly, while the conversation in this thread has gone in circles for some time it is an actual discussion at least, which makes it worth checking on every so often to see if it is moving forward,.

I support this thread because improving Jacob as a character would make my ME3 experiance more enjoyable, they certainly cant do worse then his portrayal in ME2. Even if Jacob is relegated to a cameo appearance in ME3 they can learn from their mistakes when developing other characters.

Tell the mods this. They are the ones that usually demand that all discussion of a character be kept to one single thread. For some reason they've made an exception for this thread. If we use your logic, we'd all be allowed to make as many threads about each character as we want. But I've found at least 5 threads that were locked on the basis of there already being a fan thread. And I know of a couple others that have been outright deleated.

My issue has always been with the double-standard. I'm not even much of a Jacob fan. But I don't see why a bash-thread of him gets to survive and all the other ones get shut-down.

[Ninniach Lina]

Why is he hated? 2 Words: "THE PRIIIIZE"