88 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

ThePatriot101 wrote...

*yawn*

Here we go again...

No, I've already been through this with Skullandbones before. I'm not inclined to rehash the same argument. I'm just expressing surprise that he's still here and still railing on about the same old crap.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TL DR. Can some post a summarizery?

[marshalleck]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TL DR. Can some post a summarizery?

"Someone got their shooter in mah arrpeegee, bawww!"

[SkullandBonesmember]

marshalleck wrote...

No, I've already been through this with Skullandbones before. I'm not inclined to rehash the same argument. I'm just expressing surprise that he's still here and still railing on about the same old crap.

And I've already been through with you that I like ME2 as a stand alone game but not as an RPG or sequel.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

marshalleck wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TL DR. Can some post a summarizery?

"Someone got their shooter in mah arrpeegee, bawww!"

Thanks, man.  Too many kids on the internet these days.

[lewis_1306]

Well,

personally, I think ME2 was a MUCH better game than ME1.
I enjoyed ME2 more. The characters were deeper, more appealing and more engaging.
The story was more dynamic and the pacing was better.
Parts of ME1 seemed tedious at times.
ME2 was defintiely an upgrade in many ways.
The universe seemed just as big and they did away with the cookie cutter optional missions.
The skill for unlocking made in necessary to have at least one tech on the team at all times and limited the player's freedom when choosing squad members, I'm glad they did away with it for ME2.
i suppose it's impossible for any developer to please everyone with a sequel to a game that was so well recieved by gamers and critics but I think that most people were pleased with the majority of the changes... myself included.
for me the inventory, weapons and armor system in ME2 is FAR superior to the systems in ME1. The character development and customization, the weapons and armor system, and item finding system in ME2 was much better in my opinion than it was in ME1. and I'm glad they did away with the weapon aiming, charm, intimidate, decryption and electronics skills because they were surpurfluos.

I prefer ME2 over ME1.

Modifié par lewis_1306, 13 avril 2010 - 06:08 .

[sonofalich]

i care enough to post.

[mosor]

Over00 wrote...

Comments like this irk me. It's not constructive at all.

I fear you have unleashed an infinite loop that will consume the universe by posting yourself an unconstructive comment denouncing another unconstructive comment.

I don't think so. My comment was written to promoate civility, an exchange of ideas and a bit of tongue lashing against bullies who would rather shut down people with ideas they don't agree with, rather than ignore or critique. That is hell of a lot more constructive then telling people to play another game because they have ideas for improving a gaming universe they enjoy.

Modifié par mosor, 13 avril 2010 - 07:10 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

To OP: I agree for the most part. The combat in ME2 has been improved a bit for the lower levels. Although it doesn't give you a feeling that you improve during the game. I miss that.

gmartin40 wrote...

Bioware hates people like you. I hate people like you.

Don't worry. There must be some people that hate you.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

gmartin40 wrote...

Bioware hates people like you. I hate people like you.

This. Go play some other games if you don't like ME OP.

Did someone just kick your dog?

[bjdbwea]

I hope OPs like this will continue to appear, from many different posters, so that BioWare may see their mistakes and do better in ME 3. Small chance, but one can hope.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 13 avril 2010 - 07:58 .

[pvigo]

Wait, wait - ME1 was an RPG? When did this happen?

From the onset of the franchise, it was a shooter with dialogue elements (just consider which
you do more in these games - talk or kill things), so the whole 'they put shooter elements in
my RPG' is bunk, right off the bat.

Dialogue in both games is, in my opinion, forced at times, but that's simply because they are
GAMES: immersion and realism get sacrificed for the sake of progression. That said, dialogue
in ME2 is better written and the characters feel less cardboard-y.

The action side is done better in ME2 (unless you long for Unreal Tournament, in which case
- yeah - I could see the aimless running around as appealing). I mean - in ME1 people would
run backwards shooting at you with no sense of self-preservation... How is that tactical?

But the biggest difference between the two would have to be immersion: ME1 felt more like a
movie - with progression, build-up of plot and a bare minimum of interruptions. ME2 feels more
like a TV show: brief episodes with lo-o-ong commercial breaks.

Taking all that into account, I still like ME2 better: it's got better production values all around.

That's my five cents.

...

And OP - not that your attempt at pointing out what you see as faults isn't charmingly naive,
but one letter - no matter how thorough - won't change the direction of a multi-million franchise...

...

Now - if you were to get a couple-thousand-strong petition going...

Modifié par pvigo, 13 avril 2010 - 08:19 .

[Chellick]

@pvigo-

I just felt I had to say something. I understand that my opinion/letter alone will not flip the direction Bioware has taken over on its head, but if I never spoke up at all I would never know. If Bioware does change things, my opinion will be small pebble on a mountain of ideas, and I will have been a part of the process. If they don't change anything at all, then I can say I let my opinion be heard using Bioware approved methods. I reached out, said my piece, respected others and communicated. That is all I can ask of every person here.

Thanks,

Chellick.

[Siansonea]

I think you did the right thing, Chellick. I don't agree with all your ideas in your original post, but I think it's important to give feedback in situations like this.

[yoda23]

In my eyes, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

+1

[Daiyus]

Ok. I can really see where the OP is coming from. I guess I'm kind of in the middle ground. I like modifying my weapons, but hate the inventory system of ME1. I'd much rather see this new inventory system adopt elements of the old. Have the 'X' number of weapons, and have upgrades, but make those upgrades the modules we had in ME, make the number which can be used with a weapon a factor of the weapon itself, and use the upgrade station to make those mods better (I.e. Progress them from 'I' to 'X').



The same with armour. Allow us to customise our appearance in ME2's detailed way, just make it mean more. Bring back class training, and allow us to choose between light/medium/heavy and the pros and cons that brings. Again the old Mods can be used here too in a similar way to the weapons.



As for unexplored worlds and the Mako. I'll admit they were pretty tedius and the Mako was a handful. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what BW were going for. I would love to have maybe 10-15 extremely detailed explorable worlds. With caves, ruins, plains, settlements, etc. The scope is huge. There should be areas you can drive, and areas you can't (dense jungle for example). A vehicle akin to the Mako would be a blast, just with a control upgrade.



Ammo is another major one. I personally think that if you can control the heat levels on your weapon there should be no reason you can't use one heat sink throughout the entire game. If you overload it, it breaks, then you have to put in a new one.



My other agreement with the OP is skills. I liked the skillsets in ME1. There wasn't really a need to add or remove core abilities to/from classes. The class specialised skills that ME2 added were cool though, and I would like to see them kept. But I much prefered having to have a decryption/electronics specialist on the party if I wanted to gain access to things. It added a layer of specialision and character depth. Give me ME1 skillsets with ME2 'short' skilltrees, and the class abilities, and I'd be over the moon!



I think BioWare tried to streamline too much, and just ditched anything that didn't quite work. I can see past the flaws to the core concepts, and most of them are good, it was just the execution that was a bit off. Give it another go! Improve, don't just bin it!

[JrayM16]

To the OP.



You make some good, well articualted points. Though I disagree with them, I appreciate how you have conveyed them in athoughtful, respectful declaration, unlike many of the annoying, and sometimes downright rude posters here.

[RT0wn]

Chellick wrote...
-        A great Antagonist,

In Mass Effect 1, I thoroughly hated Saren.  I wanted to search the entire galaxy, hunting his guts down so I could rip them out of him.

ME2... Collector General just makes me raise an eyebrow, and TIM just keeps staring at me.

Modifié par RT0wn, 13 avril 2010 - 11:13 .

[Autoclave]

Completely disagree with the original poster. If you are craving for ME1 mechanics, go and play ME1. Let this game evolve. All the changes made to ME2 are OK (except for planet scanning).

Besides I did really hate talents/skills in ME1. +3% shotgun accuracy OMG!!! Gotta play kill so many geth to earn the experience then to get some nifty +x% to something. The whole concept of ME1 in terms of game play was wrong. I am glad it's history.

Modifié par Autoclave, 13 avril 2010 - 11:32 .

[Chellick]

Daiyus wrote...

 I like modifying my weapons, but hate the inventory system of ME1. I'd much rather see this new inventory system adopt elements of the old. Have the 'X' number of weapons, and have upgrades, but make those upgrades the modules we had in ME, make the number which can be used with a weapon a factor of the weapon itself, and use the upgrade station to make those mods better (I.e. Progress them from 'I' to 'X').

I think that a good idea. If we can find upgrades chips while in the field that would work. I would like to personally mod my weapons, instead of having ammo powers. While I would like to be able to upgrade things outside my ship, I would much rather find something useful in the field. I got very sick of opening safes and finding nothing but credits. (Espically when I had bought everything in the game.)
A similar way to upgrade armor would work as well, using upgrade chips to increase shields, damage resistance etc. I am fine with the ME2 armor customization sliders, but more variety would be appreciated (along with different armor levels). Variety that is not only found in stores.
-Chellick

Modifié par Chellick, 14 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[bjdbwea]

Autoclave wrote...

Besides I did really hate talents/skills in ME1. +3% shotgun accuracy OMG!!! Gotta play kill so many geth to earn the experience then to get some nifty +x% to something. The whole concept of ME1 in terms of game play was wrong. I am glad it's history.

Why don't you simply ignore it then, especially if you think it makes no difference anyway. Why does the feature have to be removed. I don't like the massive dumbing down in ME 2, but if they think it's necessary, why don't they just provide an optional mode for people who want more from the gameplay than mindless shooting? Why does it have to be exclusively this or that?

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 avril 2010 - 04:46 .

[Chuvvy]

DarthCaine wrote...

Answer: "Thank you for your letter, but we don't really care"

Biowares face

Modifié par Slidell505, 14 avril 2010 - 05:13 .

[Kangasniemi]

bjdbwea wrote...

Autoclave wrote...

Besides I did really hate talents/skills in ME1. +3% shotgun accuracy OMG!!! Gotta play kill so many geth to earn the experience then to get some nifty +x% to something. The whole concept of ME1 in terms of game play was wrong. I am glad it's history.

Why don't you simply ignore it then, especially if you think it makes no difference anyway. Why does the feature have to be removed. I don't like the massive dumbing down in ME 2, but if they think it's necessary, why don't they just provide an optional mode for people who want more from the gameplay than mindless shooting? Why does it have to be exclusively this or that?

You have no idea how softaware is developed do you? Why not have 2 completely different gameplay mechanics in one game at the same time? Because that would mean making 2 different games. The ammount of coding, testing and balancing would be astronomical.

And as for OPs complaints, I don't really aggree with any of them.

ME1 had an awefull inventory system. And as for more guns, ME1 had 4, one AR, one SR, one shotgun and one pistol. And as for Shepard carrying 150 items (with 50 guns) on him during combat with out pockets is really realistic.

As for skills in ME1, yes we had something like 15 skills. How many were useful? About 5 or something. And as for "learning" to use medium/heavy armor during combat? WTF? You don't have any idea how to use it, and then you get a revelation and know how to use it? Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

Forcing the player to learn how to use different weapons is even more idiotic than the armor thing. You are an elite soldier you should know how to use the tools of your trade (ie. you WEAPONS) at the very beginning. Learning weapon skills would be OK, if Shepard were a raw recruit at the beginning of ME1 but no, he is a N7 trained elite soldier, the best earth has to offer.

So on the whole ME2>>ME1 in every way except the plot. Saren was a better enemy than the Collectors, but the second part of a trilogy is most of the time the weakest.

[bjdbwea]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Why not have 2 completely different gameplay mechanics in one game at the same time? Because that would mean making 2 different games. The ammount of coding, testing and balancing would be astronomical.

Not really. You just have to develop one proper system, then provide "auto" functions for everyone who just wants to pew-pew through the game. Or just blend out any character progression and management and use average values. I don't expect a full detailed RPG system for a game such as this, but the skill system in ME 1 was actually quite good. Granted, the inventory wasn't great. But the solution to that can't be to scrap it altogether. That's just the lazy solution of someone who wants to cut down development time. Just reduce the number of dropped items, or better yet implement a weight limit and / or realistic number of items limit.

Of course that would require BioWare to care about the RPG fans who always supported them and made them what they are.

[Conman013]

I'm with the OP on several points, however I'm with others with other points.

The inventory system from ME1 did get annoying, yes, but Daiyus' idea is something that I can get behind with the progression system. Instead of having billions of weapons that are similar, have weapons that evolve to your specs, just like the first one but more refined, with less of the same upgrades.
The ammo system from ME2 just needs to be taken out. Period. If I wanna go through clips of ammo, I'll go play Call of Duty or Bad Company. I liked ME1's overheat system. I really like the idea of the hybrid system that was mentioned. Instead of heat clips, you have a heat bar like in ME1, but if you don't watch it you have eject the clip and then that count goes down. Until it overheats, you have unlimited ammo. I could live with that, that'll make you think tactfully.
The Mako and the planets from the first were just bland, I dreaded going down to planets knowing I was going to find the exact same thing. Spice it up a bit, instead of making the planet green or blue, how about make the planet covered with forests or water or something. Add variety.
The characters I love from ME2. They actually had more of a personality this time around, Joker especially. I will agree that the interactions just sucked this time, Garrus as an example. 80% of the time you talk with him and it's always, "Can this wait a minute? I have some calibrations to do." Garrus is Shepard's best friend practically, what happened to all the fun conversations? (granted he was kind of a stick in the mud in the first too, but not as much). Another thing I didn't like was the lack of quick little blurbs between teammates on worlds in mE2, like on the Citadel elevators in ME1. I had one instance of that happen in ME2, and it was between Garrus and Tali on the Citadel. I'd like to see more of those make a return for ME3.
The loyalty missions, I'm on the fence. It did make Shepard seem like a therapist, however it did give some insight as to what was going on/went on in your party member's lives. I enjoyed the story in ME1 more, but probably because it didn't take until the end of the game before it actually kicked up. Plus, Saren actually got you to dislike him (or like him). The whole Collector General seemed really weak as the main bad guy of this story. Yes, I know he was controlled by Harbinger, but still.
Someone had mentioned the music, and I agree, ME1's score was way better and actually noticeable. Half the time I didn't really hear much music in ME2.
The skills I'd like to see a little more customization in instead of 2 ammo powers and 3 basic skills. Also, I'd like to see some of the original skills come back such as immunity or marksmen; powers that add a little more depth to classes.
As far as the gameplay? It was an improvement from ME1, the cover system particularly. But it did feel too fast-passed and too much like a shooter with conversations that you control. I liked ME1's RPG with the shooter elements, granted they were a little weak. Instead of blow them up to immense proportions, emphasize it a little more; something a little more subtle.

Those are my thoughts, in summary I side with ME1, but ME2 did improve upon some things that ME1 lacked or did kinda poorly on.

Bring on the hate.

Modifié par Conman013, 14 avril 2010 - 06:28 .