471 réponses à ce sujet

[Busomjack]

enormousmoonboots, I wanted to wait for things to cool down before responding because things were extremely hectic when I created this thread. I figured some people would be upset but I didn't expect all the spam.

I figure now is the best time to clarify my position and respond to some of the legitimate objections people have made.

[Massadonious1]

[ObserverStatus]

Yikes, that wolf looks pissed. Made me jump out of my chair.

[gurlgotkat]

1. no, i hope you were not being serious and you are just doing this to be funny
2. it probably sound really cheesy/ dumb and i would refuse to play the game. i avoided talking to jacob b/c shepherd kept trying to seduce him.i also would lose all respect for fem shepherd.
3. the same could be said for male shep- i felt that male shep should not had the option to punch the reporter. so in the mass effect future, i guess it's socially normal for men to hit women.
4. shepherd has been modified and carry around guns
5. it would be out of shepherd's character and personality from the previous 2 games if they were to implement it in the next game. it would be understandable is a side character was act like this if its been established as normal for them to do so. i can imagined miranda to do this b/c of her seductive outfit and little protection, so she is suitable for these negoitations wheras femshep is wearing clunky but practical and protective armor for combat. i have a hard time respecting miranda
6. it's not what bioware envisioned femshepherd to be.

edit-----
i would like however to make dialogue and stoyline slighty different for both shepherds.
1. for instance maybe thane has the will to live if playing female shepherd but dies for male shepherd.
2.  unique dialogue ex- i liked how the batarian thought you were a stripper if playing femshep and you could threaten him.
-------
bioware shows little support for femshep.  the default fem shep looks atrocious and  i wished they would add more customizations. so i like the idea of collecting cute / seductive outfits/items  but only if they were used in the normandy. i also would like awesome hair.  why does femshep look the most ugly compared to all the characters in the mass effect universe. the person below me also stated that bioware has yet to care to fix the walking animations.  so i do like the idea of fem shep getting more attention but quite how you phrased it.
 

Modifié par gurlgotkat, 30 avril 2010 - 09:07 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Busomjack wrote...

I was thinking, a lot of these renegade dialogue scenes that involve Shepard intimidating people and showing physical violence work effectively because Shepard is a physically imposing male. 
When we see the exact same reaction from various NPCs while controlling a female Shepard, it just comes across as a bit out of place and unrealistic.  Just how intimdiating can a rather squat looking woman be?

I think for Mass Effect 3 they should replace the renegade dialogue choices with "seduction" dialogue choices similar to what we saw in Vampire The Masquerade:Bloodlines.  For instance, during the interrogation scene with Kelham, rather than threaten Kelham, there should be a "seduce" option where Shepard can say something along the lines of...

"If you tell me what I need to know, I promise to show you some sugar."

If Shepard's "seduction" level is high enough, it will work.

To add even more depth, I think Bioware could add certain items which raise female Shepard's "charm level."

This can include items like seductive makeup, fishnet stockings, slinky dress, etc.

They can even make the "seduce option" an integral part of Kasumi's loyalty mission for female Shepard where Shepard has to obtain Donovan Hock's DNA.  In order for it to work though, Shepard would need to find sexy seductive items.

I think by ignoring gender disparities, Mass Effect is not quite as deep as it could be.  I'm hoping that this is addressed in the sequel, or future DLC/expansion.

While it may be a good idea to include at least some of the aforementioned ideas above, I have a hard time seeing it happen. We all know the default Shepard is a MaleShep, so the general Commander Shepard is programmed in a way so that it suits their personality as a male, but not otherwise. What you said could happen, but it would require amazing amounts of redesign and reprogramming -- just for the sake of making FemShep more believeable.

I honestly don't think BioWare is up to that. It's obvious that they simply copy-pasted the male animations to the female form of Shepard -- with barely any tweaks to speak of --, especially in ME2.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 30 avril 2010 - 08:46 .

[Busomjack]

gurlgotkat wrote...

1. no, i hope you were not being serious and you are just doing this to be funny
2. it probably sound really cheesy/ dumb and i would refuse to play the game. i avoided talking to jacob b/c shepherd kept trying to seduce him.i also would lose all respect for fem shepherd.
3. the same could be said for male shep- i felt that male shep should not had the option to punch the reporter. so in the mass effect future, i guess it's socially normal for men to hit women.
4. shepherd has been modified and carry around guns
5. it would be out of shepherd's character and personality from the previous 2 games if they were to implement it in the next game. it would be understandable is a side character was act like this if its been established as normal for them to do so. i can imagined miranda to do this b/c of her seductive outfit and little protection, so she is suitable for these negoitations wheras femshep is wearing clunky but practical and protective armor for combat. i have a hard time respecting miranda
6. it's not what bioware envisioned femshepherd to be.

1.If I were trying to be funny then I would've said something overtly sexist.  Stating that women have charm and can use it to their advantage is not sexist in the least.

2.You wouldn't have to play the game that way.  I'm not saying the femme fatale Shepard style should be mandatory.

3.It's not socially normal but renegade Shepard is supposed to be a douchebag.

4.So do many of his adversaries.  Think on the Krogan homeworld when Shepard runs into a Krogan ambassador and is then surrounded by several Krogan who warn her to leave.  Do you really think a squat woman could intimidate them all to stand down?

5.Shepard doesn't have a default personality.  How Shepard is depends on your playstyle and adding seduction dialogue would give the game more depth.

6.Obviously not, but I think they should reconsider.

[Hattie]

Busomjack wrote...

Alright, now that things have calmed down a bit here, let me comment on some of the objections which have been brought up.

Let me say that female Shepard may very well be skilled in everything but the fact remains that she is a woman and that that will cause those around her to pre-judge and possibly underestimate her. It's not that I am sexist, it's just that we should expect sexism from people, especially aliens that come from patriarchal societies such as Batarians and Turians.
Female Shepard may be "girl tough" but it's difficult to take a woman head butting a Krogan very seriously. There are just some very prevalent limits to human strength which are more pronounced amongst the female gender, it's simple biology.

Most women realize they're not as physically strong as men and therefore utilize their natural talents of seduction to get their way. It's not as if this isn't already seen in the game. Aria mentions turning Patriarch's men against him with the art of seduction, so why couldn't a female Shepard do the same thing?

Busomjack, you are either an idiot or a troll.

There may be some truth in what you say, but saying bioware should deliberately make the game sexist is the dumbest thing i have heard all week.

[Busomjack]

I don't see how it's sexist.

Male Shepard and female Shepard are equal, their methods should just be different.

[Agent_Dark_]

Busomjack wrote...

I don't see how it's sexist.
Male Shepard and female Shepard are equal, their methods should just be different.

i agree.  Manshep should blow some dudes head off with an assault rifle, Femshep should blow that same dudes head off with a shotgun.

[gurlgotkat]

then by all means, i agree for it to be optional.

4. >_> i'm guessing you are suggesting shepherd is "attractive" to krogan and can seduce her way out. i guess i like to see that....

[Busomjack]

We do know all alien species want to scrog Asari and human females resemble Asari so it makes sense that female Shepard could be found desirable to a Krogan.

[askanec]

What about MaleShep, he needs seductive options too. Trying to intimidate a Krogan is useless and renegade MaleShep should pump up his sexiness and try a different tack.

Modifié par askanec, 30 avril 2010 - 09:41 .

[Hattie]

Busomjack wrote...

I don't see how it's sexist.

Male Shepard and female Shepard are equal, their methods should just be different.

Let me get this straight...



You think that femshep should have to seduce npcs on the grounds that she cannot be intimidating because she's a woman. And you really don't see how that's sexist??



Like i said. Idiot or troll.

[gurlgotkat]

i hate to say it but the idea is growing on me and you won me over ;.... it would make the storyline more interesting and femshep would actually have more support from bioware.

[Busomjack]

Hattie wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
I don't see how it's sexist.
Male Shepard and female Shepard are equal, their methods should just be different.

Let me get this straight...

You think that femshep should have to seduce npcs on the grounds that she cannot be intimidating because she's a woman. And you really don't see how that's sexist??

Like i said. Idiot or troll.

Well a male Shepard wouldn't be able to effectively use his seductive charm so it would balance things out.  She wouldn't have to use seductive options if she didn't want to.  I'm just saying that should be one method of persuasiveness in addition to the others.

[Destructo-Bot]

Why would Maleshep be able to intimidate a bunch of Krogans? Yet you say nothing, implying that a Man could intimidate a Krogan but a woman could not. Since Krogran are physically superior in every way to a human male, the ability to intimidate them has ZERO to do with physical attributes. Meaning if Krogan could be cowed, either man or femshep could do it. This is why you are sexist, you don't even put any consideration into your arguments.

edit: Oh my god... REALLY? You've never seen a guy sweet talk someone before? Guys can't have CHARM?

I refuse to take anything you say seriously.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 30 avril 2010 - 09:52 .

[Steel Dancer]

...FemShep -  both Sheps - have cybernetically enhanced strength,  armoured skin and god only knows what gene based boosting.

Your argument is invalid, dead, pining for the fjords. It's over. Gone the way of all things. Standing at the Pearly Gates. It has ceased to be. Finito.

Let.
It.
Rest.
In.
Peace.

[Destructo-Bot]

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 30 avril 2010 - 10:00 .

[Borschtbeet]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Why would Maleshep be able to intimidate a bunch of Krogans? Yet you say nothing, implying that a Man could intimidate a Krogan but a woman could not. Since Krogran are physically superior in every way to a human male, the ability to intimidate them has ZERO to do with physical attributes. Meaning if Krogan could be cowed, either man or femshep could do it. This is why you are sexist, you don't even put any consideration into your arguments.

edit: Oh my god... REALLY? You've never seen a guy sweet talk someone before? Guys can't have CHARM?

I refuse to take anything you say seriously.

I have to say I agree with the OP here.  Krogan are a society that define strength by more than just physical capabilities, but also by means of courage and bravery.  This is most notable on that nearby venusian hothouse planet where Krogan would stand on the surface as a means of proving their Kroganhood.
Even if male Shepard were not as physically strong as female Shepard, the fact that he stood up to them at all is enough to earn their respect.
I don't think this standard would apply to women.  If you notice, the Krogan have NO women in any combat roles.  They're basically preserved for breeding, that is it.  The idea of a woman fighting to a Krogan would seem ludicrous as would a female of any species smaller than it trying to act tough.

Also, for those pictures you posted.  The first two are fictional, the last was not strong, but passionate enough to stand up for what she believes in.  You could call her strong in a metaphorical sense.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 30 avril 2010 - 10:07 .

[Busomjack]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Why would Maleshep be able to intimidate a bunch of Krogans? Yet you say nothing, implying that a Man could intimidate a Krogan but a woman could not. Since Krogran are physically superior in every way to a human male, the ability to intimidate them has ZERO to do with physical attributes. Meaning if Krogan could be cowed, either man or femshep could do it. This is why you are sexist, you don't even put any consideration into your arguments.

edit: Oh my god... REALLY? You've never seen a guy sweet talk someone before? Guys can't have CHARM?

I refuse to take anything you say seriously.

What Borshct said and also the reason why I don't think a male Shepard should be able to use seduction dialogue is that there is no evidence that human males are considered sexually attractive to other aliens beside Asari.
Tali is an exception but only because she and Shepard have been through so much together.  I think she found Shepard's personality attractive.

[Massadonious1]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

[Tlazolteotl]

Enough with the fictional characters.

There are real world examples of badass female soldiers that, just like Shepard, don't seduce anyone.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko. Violette Szabo.

Their foes were right to be terrified.

[Massadonious1]

Who?

[Tlazolteotl]

Oh fine.

I'm gonna go with Bayonetta, then. As sexualised a character as they come, but even so, she doesn't seduce anyone. She just shoots them in the face.