147 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Legion and Mordin where all better then the characters in ME.

That's pure opinion, and I disagree.  While I think Mordin is great, I would not call him better than any of the ME1 characters, and I had Legion for all of two missions before going through the Omega 4 Relay, so I have very little opinion of him.  Legion is a perfect example of being penalized for caring about the story...you can't do anything but rush after you get him, if you want to save the crew.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Miranda, Jack and Garrus had the best romance in the ME universe.

Again, pure opinion, and again, disagree.  I've watched them all on YouTube, several times, and while the romance scenes you mentioned were well written (except for Miranda's, sorry, but that was cheesy and lame), they were woefully short, and again, people who wanted to stay faithful to their ME1 love interests were shut out of a similar friendship conclusion.  Why should I suffer because I don't want to bang everyone (or anyone) on the ship?

kraidy1117 wrote...

Also what I find funny is that people always bring up the less dialog. If you don't romance Liara you only get three conversations.

If you shut down the romance with Liara, you actually are allowed to talk to her again, unlike the ME2 squadmates.  And you don't even get *that* far, if you're the wrong sex with several of your squadmates in ME2.  So, no, again, I disagree.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Kaidan and Ashley while had alot of dialog was not realy intresting IMO. The non LI where alot more intresting. In ME2 we have Mordin and Legion, two fantastic characters. We have Miranda, Jack and Samara who have fantastic character dev. We have two old favs from ME and even tho they have less dialog then normal, both there missions kinda make up for it. We then have Grunt which might find funny to some but I loved the character because he was not complex. We have alot of complex characters in ME2, but Grunt was refreshing and I loved it. Thane was ok in my books, I just wished they would have gave him more dev. The only characters that I hated was Jacob and Zaeed.

Okay, you are just repeating yourself.  You're not even giving examples.  How is Miranda more interesting than Ashley?  Just because she has a loyalty mission?  I don't see it.  If you are just going to state your pure opinion, you're not really going to convince those who disagree of anything.  And image spamming isn't really helping your case.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Also just to bring this up, it was the same as DAO. You get more dialog if you are romancing characters. Bioware always does that. I just found the characters alot more intresting then ME and the funny thing is I did not even like the lI from the first ME.

I loved Morrigan's friendship path as a female Grey Warden, and I never romanced her.  Different people like different things, and I have a feeling that no matter how well the ME1 squad mates were written, certain people are just going to hate them because they are old, and the ME2 squad mates are shiny and new.

Opinions, everyone has em.

[ratzerman]

TeenZombie wrote...
Yup, but as I said in my post, if you're doing a faithful or no-romance run of ME2, you miss out on a huge chunk of character interaction.  People somehow got to know and love Tali, Garrus and Wrex well in the first game without having sex with them, but that's impossible now.  It's really not the fault of ME1 fans that they are punished, basically, for wanting to continue the relationship with their original LI, by missing out on dialogue in ME2.  Can anyone tell me what incentive there is to care about characters who only talk to you once or twice the entire game, outside of their recruitment and loyalty quests?

Very well said, TZ.  I couldn't agree more.

[Onyx Jaguar]

13 squadmates. 2 with a bit of dialogue but no interaction. 11 Squadmates the LI's suffer from their status. Mordin and Legion tend to have a lot of dialogue, but you also have each member's sidequest which adds quite a bit of interaction for all 13 characters. Samara/Morinth a bit lacking though in that part but not on the ship.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 12 avril 2010 - 11:37 .

[kraidy1117]

TeenZombie wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Legion and Mordin where all better then the characters in ME.

That's pure opinion, and I disagree.  While I think Mordin is great, I would not call him better than any of the ME1 characters, and I had Legion for all of two missions before going through the Omega 4 Relay, so I have very little opinion of him.  Legion is a perfect example of being penalized for caring about the story...you can't do anything but rush after you get him, if you want to save the crew.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Miranda, Jack and Garrus had the best romance in the ME universe.

Again, pure opinion, and again, disagree.  I've watched them all on YouTube, several times, and while the romance scenes you mentioned were well written (except for Miranda's, sorry, but that was cheesy and lame), they were woefully short, and again, people who wanted to stay faithful to their ME1 love interests were shut out of a similar friendship conclusion.  Why should I suffer because I don't want to bang everyone (or anyone) on the ship?

kraidy1117 wrote...

Also what I find funny is that people always bring up the less dialog. If you don't romance Liara you only get three conversations.

If you shut down the romance with Liara, you actually are allowed to talk to her again, unlike the ME2 squadmates.  And you don't even get *that* far, if you're the wrong sex with several of your squadmates in ME2.  So, no, again, I disagree.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Kaidan and Ashley while had alot of dialog was not realy intresting IMO. The non LI where alot more intresting. In ME2 we have Mordin and Legion, two fantastic characters. We have Miranda, Jack and Samara who have fantastic character dev. We have two old favs from ME and even tho they have less dialog then normal, both there missions kinda make up for it. We then have Grunt which might find funny to some but I loved the character because he was not complex. We have alot of complex characters in ME2, but Grunt was refreshing and I loved it. Thane was ok in my books, I just wished they would have gave him more dev. The only characters that I hated was Jacob and Zaeed.

Okay, you are just repeating yourself.  You're not even giving examples.  How is Miranda more interesting than Ashley?  Just because she has a loyalty mission?  I don't see it.  If you are just going to state your pure opinion, you're not really going to convince those who disagree of anything.  And image spamming isn't really helping your case.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Also just to bring this up, it was the same as DAO. You get more dialog if you are romancing characters. Bioware always does that. I just found the characters alot more intresting then ME and the funny thing is I did not even like the lI from the first ME.

I loved Morrigan's friendship path as a female Grey Warden, and I never romanced her.  Different people like different things, and I have a feeling that no matter how well the ME1 squad mates were written, certain people are just going to hate them because they are old, and the ME2 squad mates are shiny and new.

Opinions, everyone has em.

As you said it, it all comes top opions. I found Miranda very intresting because of her past. Not only was her past more intresting then Ash, I loved that you had to pick at her barriers to get her to open up. I found Ashley could have been so much better because I just got annoyed with her afterwhile, while with Miranda I felt sorry for her. I found Legion very intresting, not for his ocmbat, but because he was Geth and his dialog was fantastic. His last conversation was very well done and I just like Mordin. I just don't know why.

Also about Liara, the dialog you get if you continue your romance hwith her she syas lets put it behind her and then ask if you are having bad dreams and you pretty much tell her it's ok. It was very cheap. You also don't get any dev this way. They did it again in ME2 but this time they just decided to not give you any dialog once the standered dialog was done. I do think the romances should get more dialog. As you said, it all comes to opionions. I found Mordin and Legion better then any ME character, hell Legion is my fav character in any Bioware game, if you where lucky to get all his dialog you would see why some people find him intresting.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 12 avril 2010 - 11:45 .

[kraidy1117]

Somebody1003 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Miranda only had one four if you don't romance her, also things like Ashley talking about her grandfather is extended if you are romancing her, same as Kaidan. Liara however brush's you off.

It's the same with ME2 with Miranda her last dialog is extended if you romance her and you get an extra dialog if you are romancing her. Your LI should have more dialog and extanded. It happend in DAO and it happend in ME2.  Also just to point this out Miranda talks about her familly too, no matter what, Garrus still talks about his adventures in Omega ect. The last bit of dialog for a character is romantic and would be realy awakward if Shepard was female and Miranda said maybe I want you to admire me.

It was the same thing with Ashley and Kaidan, tho they had 6, 7 if you romanced them. I am just pointing out that while ME2 did have less dialog, it was not that much and I found there was more dialog in each conversation then in ME, but that's just me.

I just felt that some squaddies were lacking with dialog. I know that your LI should of course have more dialog with you, but I wish that we still got more out of LI's that we were not romancing.

Garrus was my biggest complaint, he gives you two conversations on the Normandy and thats it. One about what happened to him on Omega, then another about his "reach and flexibility". I just hope that we get more conversations out of our squadmates in ME3.

And Liara does still talk to you even if you turn her down. She will ask you how your feeling, and you talk about the nightmares your having regarding the reapers.

What I mean is you don't learn anything new about her if you stop romanceing her, now I am disapointed with how Garrus was handled. Even tho he was more cooler in ME2, he needed more dialog. That's why Bioware should have used the dialog system in KOTOR. New dialog opened up when you leveld up, you got some dialog when you beat a mission but new dialog always opened up when you levled up. It worked well because KOTOR had a huge cast. The dialog system in ME was ok, but in ME2 it does not work because there is alot of characters, they should have used KOTORs system, there we could have had alot of dialog.

[SithLordExarKun]

TeenZombie wrote...



Okay, you are just repeating yourself.  You're not even giving examples.  How is Miranda more interesting than Ashley?  Just because she has a loyalty mission?  I don't see it.  If you are just going to state your pure opinion, you're not really going to convince those who disagree of anything.  And image spamming isn't really helping your case.


Opinions, everyone has em.

Opinions, everyone has em. Examples has been giving but you can still choose to ignore them in favour of ME1 characters.

[syllogi]

Shavon wrote...

Sithlord, it's the same for those who are favoring ME2 characters over the Me1 characters.

LOL, I'm not bothering with someone who just crosses something I write out and repeats it.  Okay?

[kraidy1117]

TeenZombie wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Sithlord, it's the same for those who are favoring ME2 characters over the Me1 characters.

LOL, I'm not bothering with someone who just crosses something I write out and repeats it.  Okay?

Teen, just a question, the Miranda romance video you saw, what dialog was picked. There is certain dialog you need to pick to see that Miranda cares. I do think tho that Miris sex scene should not have been in the engine room >_> thats where alot of negtive buzz comes from, but the right dialog with miri is done right.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Shavon wrote...

Nor should you have to, TZ!

I'm just saying . . .

Dead thread is Dead.

Um, hopefully. Unless it becomes productive!

[Halmiriliath]

Shavon wrote...

Dead thread is Dead.

Um, hopefully. Unless it becomes productive!

*Points to his own post on page 5 in a shameless attempt at ingratiating himself into the forum community, where he has wandered alone for many days and nights...*

Would a discussion on the different psychological mindset and motivations of the characters (plus the different contexts) from either games be worthwhile?

Modifié par Halmiriliath, 13 avril 2010 - 12:01 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Did we honestly spend 4 whole pages arguing the definition of troll? O.o

[jtav]

Halmiriliath: great idea. You might want to start a new thread, though.

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

Halmiriliath: great idea. You might want to start a new thread, though.

Jtav, that won't solve anything, Dink will come in there and ruin everything. He awlays does. I wish we could have civil threads, but when Dink comes in it just turns into a hell ride.

[kaimanaMM]

The character depth of ME1 characters vs. ME2 characters is purely based on opinion.

I could say Miranda lacks any sort of character beyond thinking of herself as a commodity and smells like feet, Ashley was clearly better! (I actually don't really think that.)

Or I could say Thane is the best dancer and obviously those who don't agree are purely jealous of his incredibly awesome bust-a-move skills, he clearly out-Fluxed Kaidan!  (This however ... don't hate me Kaidan ladies!)

See where I'm going with this?  You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm certainly allowed to disagree with it.  I think the ME2 characters were fleshed out, blood and bone, you got to know them, laugh with them, cry with them and possibly fall in love with them.  Over the top?  Not in the least.  Each of them comes from a unique background and it's quite an amazing story to bring them all together and watch them work as a team despite their differences.  The ME1 crew was just as memorable for their ability to rally together despite their differences (physical and philosophical) and conquer a common enemy.  You laughed with them, cried with them, made tough Virmire decisions with them and possibly fell in love with them.

Whether one character resonates with you more than another is purely objective and entirely up to the person behind the computer screen.

[NICKjnp]

Armor... and ME1 companions had more powers. Let's face it... Wrex with a Spectre Shotgun was unstopable... UNSTOPABLE (caps lock emphasize my inteligence).

Modifié par NICKjnp, 13 avril 2010 - 12:18 .

[syllogi]

kraidy1117 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Sithlord, it's the same for those who are favoring ME2 characters over the Me1 characters.

LOL, I'm not bothering with someone who just crosses something I write out and repeats it.  Okay?

Teen, just a question, the Miranda romance video you saw, what dialog was picked. There is certain dialog you need to pick to see that Miranda cares. I do think tho that Miris sex scene should not have been in the engine room >_> thats where alot of negtive buzz comes from, but the right dialog with miri is done right.

Well, Chuck is on, even if it's a rerun, so I can't go looking for the clip right now...  But from what I remember, it did seem like more of a fling, and I didn't see a declaration of real feelings.  I do like Miranda, and I take her everywhere in ME2 because I like her squad power, but other than the nice scene after her loyalty quest, we don't get a friendship path with her.  Basically, giving players friendship dialogue would put the game way above where it is for me now, because at the moment I have very little incentive in replaying when I'm not trying new content like Kasumi.  

Some people seem to think that roleplayers are looking for a dating sim, but I'd be far more happy with platonic character development.

[mopotter]

Shavon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Collider wrote...
By the way, this entire thread can be summed up as follows:
People whose favorite romance is in ME1 = ME1 squad is better
People whose favorite romance is in ME2 = ME2 squad is better
Basically.

And those of us who like some of both get completely ignored

Agree with you.     ME1 Kaidan will be my all time favorite character forever, and I got his back story with our without the romance as male Shepard.  But ME2 I ended up liking Jacks romance and backstory.  Wish I could have heard her backstory as Fem Shep.  I didn't care for the Miranda romance, but I liked the Thane and I go this backstory as Male or female Shepard.

As far the non romancible characters,  I like some of the ME1 dialog and characters (Wrex) as much as I like the ME2 ones.  Mordin is one of my favorites especially when I heard him sing.  I would have liked more conversation with Anderson, since he said to drop back in and talk later. 

A big difference for  me is in ME2 there are 12 in your team and in ME1 there were only the 6 so I felt more connected with all of them, I liked them.    ME2 I feel the connection with a few of them, but it's like going from a small group in the living room, to a party down at a resturant.  I cried when Kaidan/Ash died.  I feel sad when any of the ME2 team dies, but not teary.  

It's all personal preference.    

[mopotter]

Mahlerian wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Seriously why can't you guys avoid personal attacks? is it too hard? I fyou don't like a post, or the way someone responds to you, then ignore it! Gawd . . .

Anyway, I think there were ME squadmates from both games that were 'developed' better than other ones, but much of this is preference, too. Garrus and Tali in ME1 were very well written, and I think the same holds for Tali in ME2, but Garrus, not so much. That's sad, really, because unless you romance him, he's too busy calibrating. That's why I don;t think heor a few others were developed well. There was so much more they could have done with his character. Same with Liara in her cameo. Another favorite, beloved character turned so many off because she was poorly developed in ME2. Just because her character gets a role in a comic book doesn't mean that they get to skimp her cameo like that.

On the flipside, some characters were done very well. Thane, Samara, Mordin, and Miranda come to mind.

That is logical. Someone may legitimately disagree about Garrus or something (I personally think you're right), but it makes sense that people like more characters from one game or the other better, and that doesn't mean one game's characters are awesome or the other's suck. (And I certainly agree that personal attacks are unnecessary, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.)

Agree.  Your not the only one.  Sort of makes me long for the good ol lockdown days.  There are some interesting post in among the personal attacks but it's easy to miss them,