78 réponses à ce sujet

[Srau]

I don't buy the "helmet is part of the armor, we can't remove it", proof in the DLC (sorry but you shot yourself in the foot here).
Also, I've seen screens of the ME2 Blood Dragon armor modded by a fan into DAO without helmet.

Modifié par Srau, 14 avril 2010 - 10:51 .

[IoneWanderer101]

Corehaven22 wrote...

Cant they just make the helmets a separate piece? Just do some simple reprogramming? Im not understanding the complexity here.  

I'm sure if I told you right now to go and make a seperate helmet you couldn't do it. 

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Bioware's claims about the DLC armour is fubar. All they needed to do was make the armour and helmet seperate ala the armour in ME1, or even the N7 armour in ME2. Fact is, they're lazy and roll out a rubbish excuse to cover it.



Note to detractors: I do like ME2, I'm ONLY referring to this particular issue.

[Massadonious1]

Their vision of how DLC armor should look isn't "lazy" because you don't like it.



Not that I wouldn't mind a toggle myself, but I highly doubt they did it, or didn't do it because they didn't give a crap.

[xDarkicex]

TheCrakFox wrote...

I see how it can't be done with a patch, but surely it's not too much effort for BioWare to pull the existing armour and re release them with a seperate helmet?

I prefer the N7 armour anyway, but this still bothers a lot of people.

why can't it be done with a patch exactly?

phordicus wrote...

Corehaven22 wrote...

Cant they just make the helmets a separate piece? Just do some simple reprogramming? Im not understanding the complexity here.

This is something even a modder could probably manage and will at some point. Id like to think Bioware would just create a patch downloadable via the Cerberus network that would fix this crap.

it wouldn't take a modder 15 mins to remove the helmet.  just ask BW/EA for the compression algorythm for their .pcc file type.  oh wait, then they can't charge you for content that would have been more plentiful and free.

This is painfully true wouldn't take me and my brother more then a solid day to fix all armors. if we had a modding tool like oblivion 

Interesting Note on subject In the texture files the Helmet and Armor are separate files, make you wonder if the models files are separate as well? and if they are their is no reason why we can't have the option to take off helmets other then Biowares Art design choose and refusing to listen to Fan outrage.

Modifié par xDarkicex, 15 avril 2010 - 08:46 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Great find, OP. I predict that BioWare will stay silent about it (as usual) and let the rumors and half truths kill the idea.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Their vision of how DLC armor should look isn't "lazy" because you don't like it.

Not that I wouldn't mind a toggle myself, but I highly doubt they did it, or didn't do it because they didn't give a crap.

How isn't it lazy? The N7 armour in the same game has no only different headgear, but different armour components too! If they can do that, why can't they simply make seperate helmet and body armour models by splitting them up?? Answer: lazy.

[Darkhour]

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

They've always said that they can't make the DLC Armor Helmets removable because they were designed all in one piece 

There is no excuse for making armor all one piece. It was a stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid design flaw. They basically took something that was objectively superior about ME1 and intentionally made it inferior.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Wow. The screenshots are really PRECISE at showing a toggle helmet function. There is the armor, without the helmet!. What were the excuses again Bioware?

[Raanz]

hehe...Someone mentioned it earlier...big difference between a static object like a piece of armor just laying there and a fully rigged skeletal mesh. The mesh also has to be rigged for animations too. I always find it amusing that when someone runs across something that was done and it's not to their liking, it's because the developer was lazy, or just stupid.

If I had my guess, and I am sure some of you probably know this too; armor and other "wearables" are in fact, not worn, but replace other meshes. N7 armor gets replaced each time you put on a different chest piece, or shoulders, etc. DLC armor just replaces the entire Shepard model when you "put it on". Some things they get away with just swapping diffuse, spec and normal maps (Like the male Shep's formal wear).

Could they have modeled the armor to have a togglable helmet? Sure, anything is possible. I bet when you could take your helmet off, what was actually happening was the helmet was being replaced by the head mesh.

So, was it a smart move to model the dlc armor as one piece, I don't think it was. I would have liked to been able to remove the helmets on those sets. Is it an easy fix now that they have it that way? Nope..lot's of work involved

[TheCrakFox]

xDarkicex wrote...

TheCrakFox wrote...

I see how it can't be done with a patch, but surely it's not too much effort for BioWare to pull the existing armour and re release them with a seperate helmet?

I prefer the N7 armour anyway, but this still bothers a lot of people.

why can't it be done with a patch exactly?

Because it would require a whole new model with the body and helmet seperate. It would be fine to patch on PC but for the 360 MS set size limits on patches, I expect this would be too large.

[DragonRageGT]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Wow. The screenshots are really PRECISE at showing a toggle helmet function. There is the armor, without the helmet!. What were the excuses again Bioware?

The "excuse" has a name and surname: Electronic Arts

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

Darkhour wrote...

I

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

They've always said that they can't make the DLC Armor Helmets removable because they were designed all in one piece 

There is no excuse for making armor all one piece. It was a stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid design flaw. They basically took something that was objectively superior about ME1 and intentionally made it inferior.

Hey, no argument here...

TheCrakFox wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

TheCrakFox wrote...

I see how it can't be done with a patch, but surely it's not too much effort for BioWare to pull the existing armour and re release them with a seperate helmet?

I prefer the N7 armour anyway, but this still bothers a lot of people.

why can't it be done with a patch exactly?

Because it would require a whole new model with the body and helmet seperate. It would be fine to patch on PC but for the 360 MS set size limits on patches, I expect this would be too large.

If an actual Helmet Toggle would be too big, then they can simply do a patch to make it so Shep's Helmet comes off during conversations like in Dragon Age Origins. That would be a much smaller patch, or so I'd imagine.

Modifié par Blk_Mage_Ctype, 15 avril 2010 - 05:07 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

RageGT wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Wow. The screenshots are really PRECISE at showing a toggle helmet function. There is the armor, without the helmet!. What were the excuses again Bioware?

The "excuse" has a name and surname: Electronic Arts

Hey Rage, how you doin' man? Enjoying ME2?

Well, I didn't quite get your excuse for EA, but for me it would be the most obvious: lazyness. Also, delivery some patch to it for the 360 or would enrage the ones with no xbox live. PC only would enrage 360 users in general. Patch delivering issues in general.

They also said it would be design choice and this would contradict them, but they already contradicted themselves with this in Kasumi DLC, btw. Anyway, I don't think it's gonna happen. BS of them or not.

[Spinnazie]

keeping this bumped for justice.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

holy crap yeah. Maybe the reason why it happens in kasumi's mission is because they were able to fund the artists to make helmetless versions so they can patch it in later? Like...if the model's there now, then it's just a matter of getting it coded in there. although having it come off in every cutscene isn't the answer because some of the helmets look cool like that.



they'd have to store the helmet as it's own entity, which would mean applying stats to it and might lead to helmets being worn on wrong armor. although if they can get it so that from the armor screen you just toggle the bar between your armor and not that might work. They'd have to add some functionality that wouldn't allow for exploitation that would allow you to remove your helmet.



Maybe a node in shepard's quarters that switches out the dlc armor model for the helmetless version, it'd be clunky but it might also get the job done.

[DragonRageGT]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Hey Rage, how you doin' man? Enjoying ME2?

Well, I didn't quite get your excuse for EA, but for me it would be the most obvious: lazyness. Also, delivery some patch to it for the 360 or would enrage the ones with no xbox live. PC only would enrage 360 users in general. Patch delivering issues in general.

They also said it would be design choice and this would contradict them, but they already contradicted themselves with this in Kasumi DLC, btw. Anyway, I don't think it's gonna happen. BS of them or not.

Yeah, Ryu, it's enjoyable, specially because I actually like the N7 Armor a lot more than the others and the bonuses makes not that much difference, especially compared to a fully upgraded N7, which WE CAN TAKE HELMET OFF! WOOHOO!  (But not having the Mako to explore worlds but a fraking minigame for resources instead... sux badly!)

And what I meant was, EA has a long record of pushing their game devs to release unfinished products only because of the right sales season, and then, once its released, they just forget about it. Unless it's a very serious game breaking issue or the majority of the customers base for that product stress an upset reaction, then they might release a patch or two to fix it.

You say lazyness, I'd say more like pushing devs to end the game sooner, perhaps? Thus the lacking of many ME1 features. I've never seen a RPG since Diablo 1 with no separated slots for armor pieces. Uh.. even ME2 has it for the original armor. It's just so weird that the DLC's armors are a one piece stuff. They didn't dare trying that with Blood Dragon Armor for Dragon Age. Or any other DLC armor for DA:O. Perhaps ME2 team got a lot more balls than DA team... "balls to the wall, man!" (Accept rulez)

[rastakore]

Ah yes, "removable helmets"... we have dismissed those claims.

[UHitMeInTheEar]

I can't wait to see what the repercussions to all the helmet toggle complaining is in ME3.



"We chose not to put any helmets in the game because too many players disliked helmets in ME2. To get around not having helmets we've just taken the ideas of "space" and "vacuums" out of the story. ME3 will be entirely based in 19th century Canada which by most accounts is less hospitable then space."

[RyuGuitarFreak]

RageGT wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Hey Rage, how you doin' man? Enjoying ME2?

Well, I didn't quite get your excuse for EA, but for me it would be the most obvious: lazyness. Also, delivery some patch to it for the 360 or would enrage the ones with no xbox live. PC only would enrage 360 users in general. Patch delivering issues in general.

They also said it would be design choice and this would contradict them, but they already contradicted themselves with this in Kasumi DLC, btw. Anyway, I don't think it's gonna happen. BS of them or not.

Yeah, Ryu, it's enjoyable, specially because I actually like the N7 Armor a lot more than the others and the bonuses makes not that much difference, especially compared to a fully upgraded N7, which WE CAN TAKE HELMET OFF! WOOHOO!  (But not having the Mako to explore worlds but a fraking minigame for resources instead... sux badly!)

And what I meant was, EA has a long record of pushing their game devs to release unfinished products only because of the right sales season, and then, once its released, they just forget about it. Unless it's a very serious game breaking issue or the majority of the customers base for that product stress an upset reaction, then they might release a patch or two to fix it.

You say lazyness, I'd say more like pushing devs to end the game sooner, perhaps? Thus the lacking of many ME1 features. I've never seen a RPG since Diablo 1 with no separated slots for armor pieces. Uh.. even ME2 has it for the original armor. It's just so weird that the DLC's armors are a one piece stuff. They didn't dare trying that with Blood Dragon Armor for Dragon Age. Or any other DLC armor for DA:O. Perhaps ME2 team got a lot more balls than DA team... "balls to the wall, man!" (Accept rulez)

Ah, I see now. And I agree with you. Rushed DLC content for pre-orders, collector's edition not having enough time to put a toggle helmet option. Makes a lot of sense when you compare the level of polish put into Kasumi DLC and the others.

[spacehamsterZH]

I'm no big expert, but I actually doubt the helmet outright replaces the head model. You can still see some of the facial animation going on in the cutscenes, so I'm guessing the helmets and visors actually are superimposed over the head model, otherwise they would've had to create and rig a separate face model for every single head accessory. Plus I can't imagine this would work with custom created faces.



Personally, I think the big issue is the on the fly helmet toggle that existed in ME1.

[Kaiser Shepard]

If things like these and the font size are too big to be in a patch (4MB), they need to include them with the next DLC. Might just increase it's sales too.

[ThisIsMadness91]

I understand that it would be difficult and time-consuming for them to do this, but if demand is high enough, and if BioWare really does listen to the fans as it claims, then there's no reason not to do this.

[Landline]

I think they can't remove it due to coding issues.



If you're wearing N7 armor without a full head helmet the game will automatically put it on in certain situations, I'm assuming when they designed that system they didn't account for completely new armor sets making it so that it was to time consuming to add modular parts to DLC armor.

[Srau]

Landline wrote...

I think they can't remove it due to coding issues.

If you're wearing N7 armor without a full head helmet the game will automatically put it on in certain situations, I'm assuming when they designed that system they didn't account for completely new armor sets making it so that it was to time consuming to add modular parts to DLC armor.

That is a very valid point you are making.

But ultimately it destroys the "i don't want a magic helmet coming out of nowhere" argument against the toggle showing us the magical helmet is basically already in game lol