104 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I guess we see differently about what a good plot is. Common sense is very important for me, and a low number of plot holes. ME2 just fails in these two areas.

All stories have plot holes, no matter how well made the story is.

thats why i said low number and not none.

[Torpasia]

Shepard: Huh. The Collectors are mutated Protheans? That's...kinda interesting. And sad, I guess..

Garrus: Yeah, it must suck to be them.

Zaeed: Came outta goddamn nowhere, that did. Frickin' left field, I tell ya.

Garrus: Still, it's...sorta lame, what the Reapers did to them.

Zaeed: Didn't we already know that the Reapers experimented on organic races? Do "husks" ring a bell, you goddamn dunce?

Garrus: No need for name-calling, I'm just pointin' it out. Don't you feel sorry for them, just a little?

Shepard: Meh. Kill 'em all.

Zaeed / Garrus: (looking at each other, looking ahead, and then shrugging) Meh.

Modifié par Torpasia, 13 avril 2010 - 01:46 .

[smudboy]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I guess we see differently about what a good plot is. Common sense is very important for me, and a low number of plot holes. ME2 just fails in these two areas.

All stories have plot holes, no matter how well made the story is.

"The king died, then the queen died, out of grief."

Short stories can have plot holes, but it's quite rare.

[kraidy1117]

Vaenier wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I guess we see differently about what a good plot is. Common sense is very important for me, and a low number of plot holes. ME2 just fails in these two areas.

All stories have plot holes, no matter how well made the story is.

thats why i said low number and not none.

i would love to see a story with none, hell I can write a story and try so hard to not make plotholes but they always happen no matter what.

Hell even Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter have alot of plotholes.

[kraidy1117]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I guess we see differently about what a good plot is. Common sense is very important for me, and a low number of plot holes. ME2 just fails in these two areas.

All stories have plot holes, no matter how well made the story is.

"The king died, then the queen died, out of grief."

Short stories can have plot holes, but it's quite rare.

Yes but ME and ME2 are not short stories, even ME had plotholes, there is just not alot of them.ME2 has plotholes but some are very very minor and only a couple of major ones. Anyways lets just hope Bioware learns there mistake and works more on the epic battle in ME3.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 13 avril 2010 - 01:31 .

[smudboy]

Torpasia wrote...

Shepard: Huh. The Collectors are mutated Protheans? That's...kinda interesting. And sad, I guess..

Garrus: Yeah, it must suck to be them.

Zaeed: Came outta goddamn nowhere, that did. Frickin' left, I tell ya.

Garrus: Still, it's...sorta lame, what the Reapers did to them.

Zaeed: Didn't we already know that the Reapers experimented on organic races? Do "husks" ring a bell, you goddamn dunce?

Garrus: No need for name-calling, Im' just pointin' it out. Don't you feel sorry for them, just a little?

Shepard: Meh. Kill 'em all.

Zaeed / Garrus: (looking at each other, looking ahead, and then shrugging) Meh.

As a story telling element, it's merely a "Big Reveal."  Does absolutely nothing to the plot, unfortunately.

[Azint]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Nope. Three positives in Science Fiction: Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Terminator 2. 

Also, lets not forget that little movie called "The Dark Knight".

Because they were all such great films...

[kraidy1117]

Azint wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

Nope. Three positives in Science Fiction: Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Terminator 2. 

Also, lets not forget that little movie called "The Dark Knight".

Because they were all such great films...

They where tho............ expect I can see the complaints for Dark Knight.

[kglaser]

Azint wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

Nope. Three positives in Science Fiction: Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Terminator 2. 

Also, lets not forget that little movie called "The Dark Knight".

Because they were all such great films...

Aliens and Terminator 2 were SPECTACULAR films.

[Archereon]

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)



And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like



"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"



ME1 is in a whole different league though.



Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

[kglaser]

Archereon wrote...

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Did you read Revelation?  If you liked Saren in ME1, you'll love him in that book.  Gotta put up with the annoying female main character to get to him, but worth it.

[kraidy1117]

Archereon wrote...

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)

And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like

"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"

ME1 is in a whole different league though.

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Um the point that how Reapers where made was disgusting and shocked me to hell, betetr then the flood. Don't mention a FPS shooter compared to an RPG. ME2 still has a better plot tthen half the games out there.

[Jonathan Shepard]

sergio71785 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

I think that they were pretty basic UNTIL you found out they were once Protheans.

Hah, that's pretty much how I felt.

Though I do think it would've made them a bit more interesting if they had actually retained some kind of... uh,  Prothean-ness. 

Exactly, but the Reapers do love their insectoid races. I still think the lack of a Leader/Harbinger confrontation killed it... it shouldn't have been like Virmire at a first glance, but something of the spirit there made Saren such a more personal enemy. The Collector General... you get all these cool scenes with him, and then you realize... why? What's the point? He's a completely irrelevant character without a confrontation. The LEAST they could've done was SHOW him sending the info on Harbinger in the final cutscene. It would have made so much more sense. It took me a couple times of watching to get the idea he sent it.
But how did Shep even know Harbinger's name? Major plot hole. I think there was a lot left out of the game that was meant to be in there, all dealing with the Collectors.

As to the Halo v. Mass Effect discussion going on?
Halo 1 was what revolutionized the Xbox, okay? Despite Mass Effect's glory, it owes everything it is not only to the old sci-fi like Star Trek and Star Wars, but its critical shooter game play elements to Halo. Halo 2, just like Mass Effect 2 is the weak bridge between the opening and finale. Unfortunately, I think Halo 2 had a great balance of character (The Arbiter, anyone?) as well as improved game play. 
But Halo 3/ODST/ and soon Reach all surpass what Mass Effect 2 is. Not in graphics, but in storyline. Frankly because, Halo 3 knew a boss fight would be retarted if where you are is about to blow up. Unlike Mass Effect 2... you just primed the base to blow. Why is there no 10 minute timer for the boss fight? There should be. Everyone should die that way. That would be an interesting ending. But as previous comments have said. The enemies didn't change completely. Elites got replaced by Brutes gradually. And it was great how they implemented it into the story. Collectors? Well, that's cool that they're Prothean and all, but... very impersonal. The whole John 117 and Arbiter rivalry/cooperation was HUGE in character development, and for once, an extremely dramatic twist that I only felt when I saw one or two deaths in ME2. But know what the most emotionally engaging game of all it? 

Modern Warfare 2. The third level, and when America is invaded. I never thought I would see something so... disturbing. My home, invaded, destroying, and burning. Innocents dying all around me. If the suicide mission had been much much harder, and freed colonists and crew members were shown dying as they fought back to the normandy... or more attrocity in the Collector abductions had been shown... man, the Collectors would've been the scariest, most emotionally inducing enemies I'd have ever played against.

Modifié par Jonathan Shepard, 13 avril 2010 - 02:00 .

[kglaser]

Yeah, but the Collector General is now a music video sensation on YouTube. So, you know, pretty worth it.

[Archereon]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)

And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like

"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"

ME1 is in a whole different league though.

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Um the point that how Reapers where made was disgusting and shocked me to hell, betetr then the flood. Don't mention a FPS shooter compared to an RPG. ME2 still has a better plot tthen half the games out there.

Have you even seen the Final Boss!?  The fact that its a giant terminator ruined the shock value of the revelation, and I actually died on my first try because I couldn't stop laughing.

On terms of the Collectors being Protheans...That revelation could have been amazing, at the same level of Vigil's speech, but it was downplayed too much to be interesting.

With Halo 1, and far more with the original Mass Effect, the plot twists there were weren't gimmicky (though the Halo rings=Galaxy death is corny), and didn't seem like jokes (I'm looking at you T-8Reaper).

[kraidy1117]

Archereon wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)

And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like

"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"

ME1 is in a whole different league though.

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Um the point that how Reapers where made was disgusting and shocked me to hell, betetr then the flood. Don't mention a FPS shooter compared to an RPG. ME2 still has a better plot tthen half the games out there.

Have you even seen the Final Boss!?  The fact that its a giant terminator ruined the shock value of the revelation, and I actually died on my first try because I couldn't stop laughing.

On terms of the Collectors being Protheans...That revelation could have been amazing, at the same level of Vigil's speech, but it was downplayed too much to be interesting.

With Halo 1, and far more with the original Mass Effect, the plot twists there were weren't gimmicky (though the Halo rings=Galaxy death is corny), and didn't seem like jokes (I'm looking at you T-8Reaper).

Was not talking about the boss <_< was talking about the process to make Reapers. If you paid attention you would how Reapers are born and it is disgusting and shocked me alot. I found the boss a joke, but the point of us seeing it was not, just the battle. I still think after we destoryed the tubes, there should have been the big choice, then a huge explosion after and the platforms fall. You then get to a big door and you have to hold a line with the surviors. It would have been more epic then the Terminator. Thats why in ME3, there should not even be a final boss. No final boss in ME or ME2 have been fun, they where all lame. They should just do the Halo approach with a huge escape, more epic.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 13 avril 2010 - 01:58 .

[kglaser]

Just wait for ME3...give them a chance.

BioWare has rarely disappoint.

[kraidy1117]

kglaser wrote...

Just wait for ME3...give them a chance.
BioWare has rarely disappoint.

Unless they make the ME2 characters cameos and give us a new squad <_<

[Gethforceone]

Archereon wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)

And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like

"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"

ME1 is in a whole different league though.

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Um the point that how Reapers where made was disgusting and shocked me to hell, betetr then the flood. Don't mention a FPS shooter compared to an RPG. ME2 still has a better plot tthen half the games out there.

Have you even seen the Final Boss!?  The fact that its a giant terminator ruined the shock value of the revelation, and I actually died on my first try because I couldn't stop laughing.

On terms of the Collectors being Protheans...That revelation could have been amazing, at the same level of Vigil's speech, but it was downplayed too much to be interesting.

With Halo 1, and far more with the original Mass Effect, the plot twists there were weren't gimmicky (though the Halo rings=Galaxy death is corny), and didn't seem like jokes (I'm looking at you T-8Reaper).

I've never really seen a "story" from halo as much as a whole lot of so called "profound phrases" and some epic music.

[kraidy1117]

Gethforceone wrote...

Archereon wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Well, I'm sorry to say that Halo 1 plotline is, in my opinion, better than ME2 plotline. At least there was ONE well implemented plot twist (The flood that is, don't even mention the T-8Reaper), and it isn't a sequel, meaning it doesn't open up glaring plot issues (such as the semi-justified, semi-retconed thermal clip issue)

And finally, Halo doesn't have any enemies that randomly transform into minibosses and start spouting idiotic lines like

"THIS HURTS YOU!" or "MY ATTACKS WILL TEAR YOU APART, SHEPARD!"

ME1 is in a whole different league though.

Saren is one of the best video game villains ever in my opinion (as opposed to Harbinger, who's annoying and repetitive lines are at a similar level to "The Princess is in another castle"), and the revelations about Sovereign are just mind blowing. The Vigil conversation verges on art.

Um the point that how Reapers where made was disgusting and shocked me to hell, betetr then the flood. Don't mention a FPS shooter compared to an RPG. ME2 still has a better plot tthen half the games out there.

Have you even seen the Final Boss!?  The fact that its a giant terminator ruined the shock value of the revelation, and I actually died on my first try because I couldn't stop laughing.

On terms of the Collectors being Protheans...That revelation could have been amazing, at the same level of Vigil's speech, but it was downplayed too much to be interesting.

With Halo 1, and far more with the original Mass Effect, the plot twists there were weren't gimmicky (though the Halo rings=Galaxy death is corny), and didn't seem like jokes (I'm looking at you T-8Reaper).

I've never really seen a "story" from halo as much as a whole lot of so called "profound phrases" and some epic music.

That was kinda cold, the first Halo had a good story, it's just with Halo 2 and 3 Bungie said **** the story, lets go to the multiplayer.

[kglaser]

kraidy1117 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

Just wait for ME3...give them a chance.
BioWare has rarely disappoint.

Unless they make the ME2 characters cameos and give us a new squad <_<

OK, you have just made me feel physically sick.

[shinobi602]

I was pretty surprised when I found out the Collectors were once Protheans, genuinely surprised. I think it was a great plot twist.

[kglaser]

shinobi602 wrote...

I was pretty surprised when I found out the Collectors were once Protheans, genuinely surprised. I think it was a great plot twist.

+1

[Gethforceone]

kglaser wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I was pretty surprised when I found out the Collectors were once Protheans, genuinely surprised. I think it was a great plot twist.

+1

+2

[kraidy1117]

Gethforceone wrote...

kglaser wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I was pretty surprised when I found out the Collectors were once Protheans, genuinely surprised. I think it was a great plot twist.

+1

+2

-3.....

That was a joke.