104 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLostGenius]

They don't even vaguely resemble the Protheans, and they look like GENERIC Alien creatures. Also The Collectors apparently were around for quite awhile and no one noticed them in ME1? I thought their presence was super-imposed as opposed to being properly revealed.

[Gethforceone]

The first game took place in a different area of space.

[kglaser]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

kglaser wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I was pretty surprised when I found out the Collectors were once Protheans, genuinely surprised. I think it was a great plot twist.

+1

+2

-3.....

That was a joke.

I see what you did there.

But...the priiiize!!

[jasonontko]

smudboy wrote...

Torpasia wrote...

Shepard: Huh. The Collectors are mutated Protheans? That's...kinda interesting. And sad, I guess..

Garrus: Yeah, it must suck to be them.

Zaeed: Came outta goddamn nowhere, that did. Frickin' left, I tell ya.

Garrus: Still, it's...sorta lame, what the Reapers did to them.

Zaeed: Didn't we already know that the Reapers experimented on organic races? Do "husks" ring a bell, you goddamn dunce?

Garrus: No need for name-calling, Im' just pointin' it out. Don't you feel sorry for them, just a little?

Shepard: Meh. Kill 'em all.

Zaeed / Garrus: (looking at each other, looking ahead, and then shrugging) Meh.

As a story telling element, it's merely a "Big Reveal."  Does absolutely nothing to the plot, unfortunately.

ROFL

[TheLostGenius]

Gethforceone wrote...

The first game took place in a different area of space.

Yes but certainly the council would have had knowledge of The Collector's, or the Alliance. With the presence of The shadow broker, certainly all governments had knowledge of an advanced alien species of unknown origin making incursions into the galaxy.

[kraidy1117]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

The first game took place in a different area of space.

Yes but certainly the council would have had knowledge of The Collector's, or the Alliance. With the presence of The shadow broker, certainly all governments had knowledge of an advanced alien species of unknown origin making incursions into the galaxy.

Collectors only keep to the Termenus, only rumors of them reach Council space. This is stated in Acension and Anderson even says they are a fringe threat.

[PARAGON87]

I generally think we weren't really surprised because we speculate everything on these forums to every minute detail.



Hell, we might have even figured the ME3 plot years before the game is even released!

[kraidy1117]

PARAGON87 wrote...

I generally think we weren't really surprised because we speculate everything on these forums to every minute detail.

Hell, we might have even figured the ME3 plot years before the game is even released!

I was still kinda shock even tho I had a feeling it was ture. It still hit me hard to see this once powerful race turned into a husk and when you see the Genral raise his little claw and see's he is going to die, it just made me sad.

[Dark_Caduceus]

kraidy1117 wrote...

PARAGON87 wrote...

I generally think we weren't really surprised because we speculate everything on these forums to every minute detail.

Hell, we might have even figured the ME3 plot years before the game is even released!

I was still kinda shock even tho I had a feeling it was ture. It still hit me hard to see this once powerful race turned into a husk and when you see the Genral raise his little claw and see's he is going to die, it just made me sad.

Yeah, still the Protheans gave the next spacefarers the opportunity to finally end the Reaper cycle, they didn't die in vain like all the other before them. Still, it was a heavy risk...

[Jonathan Shepard]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

PARAGON87 wrote...

I generally think we weren't really surprised because we speculate everything on these forums to every minute detail.

Hell, we might have even figured the ME3 plot years before the game is even released!

I was still kinda shock even tho I had a feeling it was ture. It still hit me hard to see this once powerful race turned into a husk and when you see the Genral raise his little claw and see's he is going to die, it just made me sad.

Yeah, still the Protheans gave the next spacefarers the opportunity to finally end the Reaper cycle, they didn't die in vain like all the other before them. Still, it was a heavy risk...

But the priiize...

[kraidy1117]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

PARAGON87 wrote...

I generally think we weren't really surprised because we speculate everything on these forums to every minute detail.

Hell, we might have even figured the ME3 plot years before the game is even released!

I was still kinda shock even tho I had a feeling it was ture. It still hit me hard to see this once powerful race turned into a husk and when you see the Genral raise his little claw and see's he is going to die, it just made me sad.

Yeah, still the Protheans gave the next spacefarers the opportunity to finally end the Reaper cycle, they didn't die in vain like all the other before them. Still, it was a heavy risk...

But the priiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiize.

[JMA22TB]

Casey Hudson pointed out the difficulty plot-wise in ME2 and ME as having to make the story drive forward without going too much into the resolutions and ultimate climax of the plot, which is an indirect hint that all the cataclysmic climax action happens in ME3.

This makes sense because Empire Strikes Back was shat on by critics as a joke with no one knowing but Lucas and co. about what happens next, much like most of the critics of ME2's plot do so on this forum without knowing what ME3 has in store for us in regards to the significance of ME2's plot.

For as much time as you people who spend time picking at every detail about this game, imagine the possibilities for how ME2's story could end up being epic in hindsight? I'll make some examples:

- Collectors ending up being used as both a distraction and experiment for the Reapers to study Shepard indirectly and to assess the potential of humanity. If no one stops them, they've accomplished their goal. If Shepard or some other hero does, then they can assess the best of the race. Doesn't it feel a little too easy to have beaten them so soundly?

- As far as what the Reapers are really up to, Sovereign was in geth space amassing the army for who knows how long. Legion mentioning that it was monitoring communication channels suggests the geth were approached some time ago, maybe even shortly after they fought off the Quarians. If Sovereign had a long time to fool around out there, who's to say he didn't have the geth Heretics build a mass relay in the same fashion as Legion mentioned geth building space stations between stars?

- There's already a thread about this and it makes sense: Cerberus actually ending up a secret, plausibly deniable arm of the Alliance like the Corsairs but better. If Paragon Shepard (and there a lot of them) ends up throwing the bird and storming off defying the Illusive Man, who's to say that Shepard isn't brought in by the Alliance and put on the sideline or imprisoned, under guise of wanting to discuss intel on Cerberus? On the flip side, the Alliance and Cerberus could end up betraying Renegade Shepard, base in tow, and turning him in to the Council to make the Alliance look good for turning in a rogue spectre, and so they can focus on the Collector Base's tech in secret? Political liability removed, problem solved.

- Speaking of Cerberus involvement with the Alliance, what if our good friends Anderson and Udina, with their socioeconomic pact with the Citadel are completely aware of Cerberus' role the whole time and end up making the decision to betray you? They can move a lot of funds and the higherups in the Alliance are funding Cerberus, according to EDI. Udina, not a big surprise he's done it before, but Anderson? Hard pill to swallow and that would be an epic betrayal.

- Becoming / remaining a good friend of Aria, Liara, the Krogan, the Migrant Fleet, and the Geth might be more about breaking Shepard out rather than letting him be portrayed as some heartless rogue Spectre hell-bent on betraying his race to terrorists and the Collectors, who are now an unprovable myth, through either Shepard's destruction or turning over to Cerberus, who keeps their investment close to the vest and separate from public knowledge. Wouldn't it be damn interesting for Shepard to have to face his own government and military down as part of ME3?

- Let's see, what other figure in the series was given the distinctly unique ability to animate a living being... Warlord Okeer? The same guy who bargained with the Collectors? Now, Wilson was a mole for someone at the start of ME2, which I would deduce as one out of four options: mercenaries, the Shadow Broker, the Alliance, and the Collectors / Reapers. The first two are at the last's disposal, and the Alliance didn't have intel about Shepard being alive until after he was reanimated, at least allegedly. Wilson assured Miranda that he would be able to pull it off despite his condition (decomposed and mutilated), which leads me to believe that he obtained that technology from the Collectors, at the Illusive Man's behest. As to why the Collectors didn't know where Shepard was until Horizon, it would make sense that after Wilson was set up to be a traitor by TIM without his knowledge. He saw the whole involvement with the Collectors, despite what they paid him, to be a huge risk he wasn't willing to take in the end, so he wanted to destroy the entire facility and Shepard. Communication is cut off, Collectors don't know where he is, keep up with the plan and deal with Shepard if he brings the fight to them. In the meantime, TIM was monitoring Wilson's communication with the Collectors the whole, explaining how he was able to track and utilize Shepard to combat them. It can be safely assumed that the technology has some sort of remote control capability similar to Saren, in addition to Grunt, who was created using similar technology. Develop along the paths we desire?..... I don't really think there's a happy ending for Shepard in the end, a Saren-like possession in which your love interest has to end mercifully for you? How about that?

- I'm not entirely sure that rewriting the geth heretics is going to make any difference about the geth's future, despite the good intentions. If the Reapers were able to create a virus like that, who's to say they won't do it again the soonest chance they get if they built a relay there in the 300 year span? Again, a Legion loyalty bonus would be anticipating this attempt and being able to cull their numbers a bit prior to finally being rewritten by the Reapers as disciples. Besides, it's not like there was going to be a happy ending for the quarian / geth situation, at least to me.

Modifié par JMA22TB, 13 avril 2010 - 03:27 .

[TheLostGenius]

Wasn't Eden Prime on the fringe of the Terminus Systems? The logic of them being a fringe threat as deemed by the council (thus the lack of their existence in ME1) is about as compelling as the



ah yes, "reapers" declaration.

[TheLostGenius]

JMA22TB, Nice theories. It's also possible that with Wilson, Miranda killed him because he was the only other surviving personage that had knowledge of the science of the Lazarus project, and she was ordered to kill him by TIM. TIM and Miranda can then lie to you and say that Wilson had betrayed them, when in fact they are deceiving you and they used and executed Wilson. This is starting to get off of the Collector subject. Based on the Rachni business in ME1 its obvious that TIM wants The Collector Station solely as a military weapon, probably to achieve human domination in the galaxy.

[Xaijin]

It shows how far the Reapers are willing to go... they should have been foreshadowed in the first game, say in the Armstrong cluster.

[TheLostGenius]

Xaijin wrote...

It shows how far the Reapers are willing to go... they should have been foreshadowed in the first game, say in the Armstrong cluster.

Vigil mentions that some of the Protheans were enslaved by the Reapers, however he also states that the Reapers left them and they became mindless husks. Which is a fairly glaring inconsistency, though it could also be deduced that the Protheans on Ilos were not fully aware of the fates of all their kin in other solar systems.

[TheLostGenius]

Also. HUGE ROFLMAO on Mass Effect The Sitcom. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kraidy1117]

JMA22TB wrote...

Casey Hudson pointed out the difficulty plot-wise in ME2 and ME as having to make the story drive forward without going too much into the resolutions and ultimate climax of the plot, which is an indirect hint that all the cataclysmic climax action happens in ME3.

This makes sense because Empire Strikes Back was shat on by critics as a joke with no one knowing but Lucas and co. about what happens next, much like most of the critics of ME2's plot do so on this forum without knowing what ME3 has in store for us in regards to the significance of ME2's plot.

For as much time as you people who spend time picking at every detail about this game, imagine the possibilities for how ME2's story could end up being epic in hindsight? I'll make some examples:

- Collectors ending up being used as both a distraction and experiment for the Reapers to study Shepard indirectly and to assess the potential of humanity. If no one stops them, they've accomplished their goal. If Shepard or some other hero does, then they can assess the best of the race. Doesn't it feel a little too easy to have beaten them so soundly?

- As far as what the Reapers are really up to, Sovereign was in geth space amassing the army for who knows how long. Legion mentioning that it was monitoring communication channels suggests the geth were approached some time ago, maybe even shortly after they fought off the Quarians. If Sovereign had a long time to fool around out there, who's to say he didn't have the geth Heretics build a mass relay in the same fashion as Legion mentioned geth building space stations between stars?

- There's already a thread about this and it makes sense: Cerberus actually ending up a secret, plausibly deniable arm of the Alliance like the Corsairs but better. If Paragon Shepard (and there a lot of them) ends up throwing the bird and storming off defying the Illusive Man, who's to say that Shepard isn't brought in by the Alliance and put on the sideline or imprisoned, under guise of wanting to discuss intel on Cerberus? On the flip side, the Alliance and Cerberus could end up betraying Renegade Shepard, base in tow, and turning him in to the Council to make the Alliance look good for turning in a rogue spectre, and so they can focus on the Collector Base's tech in secret? Political liability removed, problem solved.

- Speaking of Cerberus involvement with the Alliance, what if our good friends Anderson and Udina, with their socioeconomic pact with the Citadel are completely aware of Cerberus' role the whole time and end up making the decision to betray you? They can move a lot of funds and the higherups in the Alliance are funding Cerberus, according to EDI. Udina, not a big surprise he's done it before, but Anderson? Hard pill to swallow and that would be an epic betrayal.

- Becoming / remaining a good friend of Aria, Liara, the Krogan, the Migrant Fleet, and the Geth might be more about breaking Shepard out rather than letting him be portrayed as some heartless rogue Spectre hell-bent on betraying his race to terrorists and the Collectors, who are now an unprovable myth, through either Shepard's destruction or turning over to Cerberus, who keeps their investment close to the vest and separate from public knowledge. Wouldn't it be damn interesting for Shepard to have to face his own government and military down as part of ME3?

- Let's see, what other figure in the series was given the distinctly unique ability to animate a living being... Warlord Okeer? The same guy who bargained with the Collectors? Now, Wilson was a mole for someone at the start of ME2, which I would deduce as one out of four options: mercenaries, the Shadow Broker, the Alliance, and the Collectors / Reapers. The first two are at the last's disposal, and the Alliance didn't have intel about Shepard being alive until after he was reanimated, at least allegedly. Wilson assured Miranda that he would be able to pull it off despite his condition (decomposed and mutilated), which leads me to believe that he obtained that technology from the Collectors, at the Illusive Man's behest. As to why the Collectors didn't know where Shepard was until Horizon, it would make sense that after Wilson was set up to be a traitor by TIM without his knowledge. He saw the whole involvement with the Collectors, despite what they paid him, to be a huge risk he wasn't willing to take in the end, so he wanted to destroy the entire facility and Shepard. Communication is cut off, Collectors don't know where he is, keep up with the plan and deal with Shepard if he brings the fight to them. In the meantime, TIM was monitoring Wilson's communication with the Collectors the whole, explaining how he was able to track and utilize Shepard to combat them. It can be safely assumed that the technology has some sort of remote control capability similar to Saren, in addition to Grunt, who was created using similar technology. Develop along the paths we desire?..... I don't really think there's a happy ending for Shepard in the end, a Saren-like possession in which your love interest has to end mercifully for you? How about that?

- I'm not entirely sure that rewriting the geth heretics is going to make any difference about the geth's future, despite the good intentions. If the Reapers were able to create a virus like that, who's to say they won't do it again the soonest chance they get if they built a relay there in the 300 year span? Again, a Legion loyalty bonus would be anticipating this attempt and being able to cull their numbers a bit prior to finally being rewritten by the Reapers as disciples. Besides, it's not like there was going to be a happy ending for the quarian / geth situation, at least to me.

This. Also I do beleive Reaper tech was used to return Shepard to life. Collector tech is from the Reapers and as we know Reaper tech can create life, whos to say it can bring back life? That would be a very good twist.

[kraidy1117]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

It shows how far the Reapers are willing to go... they should have been foreshadowed in the first game, say in the Armstrong cluster.

Vigil mentions that some of the Protheans were enslaved by the Reapers, however he also states that the Reapers left them and they became mindless husks. Which is a fairly glaring inconsistency, though it could also be deduced that the Protheans on Ilos were not fully aware of the fates of all their kin in other solar systems.

Not realy, Vigil could have been wrong, he is just a VI.

[VettoRyouzou]

How were they not interesting? I mean I thought they were a nifty enemy I guess it just hard for people to jump from Geth to collectors being the main enemy force.

[Chuvvy]

I think the blue suns or the eclipse were more of your nemesis then the collectors.

[Terraneaux]

Honestly, if they were gonna make the Collectors mutated Protheans they should have had a subplot with Shepard having weird flashbacks and dreams about them due to that Cipher business. It just feels tacked-on.

[spacehamsterZH]

Just so you guys know, I'm keeping track of who here says Aliens was better than Alien, and next time any of you claim ME1 was superior to ME2 because ME2 sacrificed substance for action and shooting, I'm gonna flame you harder than a mob of Blood Pack Pyros.

[Steel Dancer]

TheLostGenius wrote...

I for one found that the Collector origin story to be gimmicky. Would have been much more interesting if their race had a more fleshed out background, then the simple, oh no, now you are fighting mutated Protheans. Not saying it isn't feasible within the ME univerise, just that the Collector origin story could have been much more interesting. Like an ancient species from millions of years ago, and they were like the only organic species to accept the Galactic purge (similar to how Saren reasoned, and was eventually indoctrinated).

Does anyone else that the Collectors as "mutated Protheans" cheapened the mystery and discovery of the Protheans from Mass Effect 1. (Arguably one of the more interesting facets of the first game).

This is my opinion and I'm not stating this as fact, so I'm really posting this to see what others think. Just thinking it would have been way better if they had a more creative origin. Maybe a species from outside the Galaxy that sided with the Reapers? I mean, mutated Protheans, come on!?   

Not from outside the Galaxy. The logistics of that given the way interstellar travel is presented would have been... awkward.

It would have better if they had been presented as a group of Protheans who had tried to cooperate for a much nastier twist. And a very definite bullet to the head as regards Sarens' ideas of "cooperation" back in ME1. Oh well.

That said, I felt it worked as is, showing that the Reapers aren't something you can escape from in any way.
Captured? They'll just use you as a disposable resource. Dead? They'll just clone you and use you as a disposable resource.