59 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

I harden her to get majorlines recurve.

You only have to kill Marjolaine to get that bow. Afterwards you can still talk to Leliana and not harden her.

I do harden her, and for the shallowest reason of all: she looks better in leather, dammit.

[Emerald Melios]

OldMan91 wrote...

Kinda funny the perception some people have of hardened or unhardened Leliana.

Unhardened Leliana: "I'm an innocent pure being of heaven who farts rainbows and cuddles with teddy bears."

Hardened Leliana: "I'm a cruel, bloodthirsty assassin who will slice up an innocent peasant with my daggers. Or i'll have sex with the peasant and steal his things. Or both."

Yeah it's not that sharp of a dichotomy.

[Zanderat]

Axekix wrote...

Meliorist13 wrote...

Un-hardened Leliana is a lie. She frightens herself with her own
love/lust of the kill, the intrigue, the seduction, and excitement of
being a Bard/Spy/Assassin.

Her retreat to the Chantry was her
fleeing from herself.

Eh... If you ascribe to the rape theory that's not necessarily true.

Huh? NEver considered that possibility.  Another reason reason to keep her nice.

Modifié par Zanderat, 13 avril 2010 - 12:40 .

[Zanderat]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

I harden her to get majorlines recurve.

Not necessary.

[OldMan91]

Yeah it's not that sharp of a dichotomy.

It really isn't, no.



Many of her "adorable" comments still come up even if you harden her. For example, in Orzammar you can talk to that dwarf who seems very eager to go and study with the circle of Magi. If you have Leliana with you, she will comment on how adorable the dwarf is, regardless if you hardened her or not.



The only thing that changes if you harden her is that she realizes that her time with the chantry, while peaceful, was ultimately boring and lacked the excitement that her previous life had.



She does not become bloodthirsty or evil in any way. If you listen to her party banter with Zevran, she specifically says that she does not enjoy killing, but the hunt itself (investigating, gathering facts, sneaking around, etc) is fun. It's like riding a rollercoaster. Sure it looks dangerous or frightening, but it's fun! Nothing wrong with that.



She still remains as sweet and adorable as the first time you met her.



Same applies with Alistair.

[Emerald Melios]

That's why I always harden her; her sabbatical in the Chantry was stifling her, and she shouldn't punish herself for enjoying the bardic lifestyle.

[HopHazzard]

SurelyForth wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

I harden her to get majorlines recurve.

You only have to kill Marjolaine to get that bow. Afterwards you can still talk to Leliana and not harden her.

I do harden her, and for the shallowest reason of all: she looks better in leather, dammit.

You don't even have to kill her to get it. I talked her into leaving and it was there in a chest in the back room.

[Tirigon]

You should do what you think is right. I usually harden her because I don´t like the chantry and because I am a firm believer in the principle of "Some people simply require assassination" (as Zevran puts it).



The threesome is a nice bonus ;-)

[Zanderat]

I also think the term "hardening" is misleading. That's what put me off. I didn't want a cynical cruel Leli. A better term might be "resolved" or "become aware".

[Suron]

Zanderat wrote...

I also think the term "hardening" is misleading. That's what put me off. I didn't want a cynical cruel Leli. A better term might be "resolved" or "become aware".

what sense does that even make?  the term "hardened" has nothing to do with being cynical or cruel necessarily.  Best example is when you're a child and became an adult..you were "hardened" to the reality of life, it's not all rainbows and candy and cartoons...

when you do "harden" her...she admits that she ran to the chantry but wasn't really happy there..whether she thought she "wanted the change" or not...she was LYING to herself..she straight up tells you this..

so actually not hardening her is allowing her to live a lie and ultimately the probability of her not REALLY being happy....EVER.

so kudos for holding Leli back those that like her "soft" 

[highcastle]

Personally, I don't harden her. And not for the reasons most others list, either. I've never (except for the achievement, and even then I reloaded promptly) romanced her. She's not at the top of my list when it comes to favorite characters, either. But in going to the chantry she made a choice to change something about herself. I think changing back would be a step backward for her. It's not growth, not in the way Alistair's hardening is.

Of course, I also don't do her personal quest very often, either. I get tired of the ninja romancing.

[Xandurpein]

I think that both 'hardened' and 'soft' Leliana are equally true. Leliana is at a pivotal time in her life and is very open to influence from the player who at this point have become a very important person in her life. Whatever choice she makes, 'soft' or 'hard' (and I agree that there isn't as much of a difference as some would have it) becomes her true self.

Anyone who thinks only one outcome is her true self and the other a lie, is simply projecting their own feelings and beliefs on Leliana, in my opnion.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 14 avril 2010 - 08:39 .

[Zanderat]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that both 'hardened' and 'soft' Leliana are equally true. Leliana is at a pivotal time in her life and is very open to influence from the player who at this point have become a very important person in her life. Whatever choice she makes, 'soft' or 'hard' (and I agree that there isn't as much of a difference as some would have it) becomes her true self.

Anyone who thinks only one outcome is her true self and the other a lie, is simply projecting their own feelings and beliefs on Leliana, in my opnion.

Agree.  She is trying to better herself.  Why would I try to discourage that?

[Bigdoser]

Suron wrote...

Zanderat wrote...

I also think the term "hardening" is misleading. That's what put me off. I didn't want a cynical cruel Leli. A better term might be "resolved" or "become aware".

what sense does that even make?  the term "hardened" has nothing to do with being cynical or cruel necessarily.  Best example is when you're a child and became an adult..you were "hardened" to the reality of life, it's not all rainbows and candy and cartoons...

when you do "harden" her...she admits that she ran to the chantry but wasn't really happy there..whether she thought she "wanted the change" or not...she was LYING to herself..she straight up tells you this..

so actually not hardening her is allowing her to live a lie and ultimately the probability of her not REALLY being happy....EVER.

so kudos for holding Leli back those that like her "soft" 

This.

[SirOccam]

I've never hardened her, but I don't agree with those who view keeping her unhardened as encouraging her to deny who she "really is."

Just like you can tell her in that conversation, what's important is that she strives to do good. There's no denial at all that she still feels that way at times. Another thing you can tell her is that "we all have a choice." And that's true.

[Sarah1281]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that both 'hardened' and 'soft' Leliana are equally true. Leliana is at a pivotal time in her life and is very open to influence from the player who at this point have become a very important person in her life. Whatever choice she makes, 'soft' or 'hard' (and I agree that there isn't as much of a difference as some would have it) becomes her true self.

Anyone who thinks only one outcome is her true self and the other a lie, is simply projecting their own feelings and beliefs on Leliana, in my opnion.

So...you get to choose which side becomes her true self through three or four dialogue options and that's NOT projecting your feelings and beliefs onto Leliana. What's always annoyed me about her is how easily influenced she is. I mean, even Alistair only decides to look out for himself more and to believe in his own abilities when he gets hardened.

[Chuvvy]

I don't care.

[Zanderat]

Then why post?  <_<

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I've hardened her both times. I didnt really notice much of an effect. Other than she will do a three-some I think, and her epilogues will be different if you sacrifice yourself if you're in a relationship.

I usually dont harden her. From an RP point of view when I romanced her on my HN, he didnt think killing was a good thing, and instead told her that she is a good person.

how do you innitiate a three some with her????!!!!! I have never heard of this

[Sarah1281]

Harden her and have her with you when you get the sex scene with Isabela at the Pearl. If you don't know how to do that, ask her to teach you to be a duelist and then when she suggests testing you ask if there are 'other' ways she can get to know you. Leliana gets all huffy and announces that she wants in. If Zevran's there he might join in (if you let him).

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

ok, I need some clarification on this. how do you harden a character? This is something I have not come across before please do tell. Specifically how to harden alistair and Lelianna. By the by has anyone softened sten? it pays off as he willingly talks of his childhood, children, and his people invading ferelden in more detail.

Modifié par TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain, 15 avril 2010 - 06:57 .

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Harden her and have her with you when you get the sex scene with Isabela at the Pearl. If you don't know how to do that, ask her to teach you to be a duelist and then when she suggests testing you ask if there are 'other' ways she can get to know you. Leliana gets all huffy and announces that she wants in. If Zevran's there he might join in (if you let him).

So it can become a 4-some? XD sweet.

[Sarah1281]

Get her personal quest and then deal with Marjolaine. Afterwards, Leliaa has an identity crisis because Marjolaine said she's just fooling herself with the devout sister routine. Choose the options that encourage her to admit she likes being a bard and killing and she's hardened. This doesn't really affect her personality all that much but it allows the threesome, lets you talk her down at the ashes, and effects her post-coronation outfit and plans (unless she's in a romance and then she'll want to stay with you regardless).

[Sarah1281]

TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Harden her and have her with you when you get the sex scene with Isabela at the Pearl. If you don't know how to do that, ask her to teach you to be a duelist and then when she suggests testing you ask if there are 'other' ways she can get to know you. Leliana gets all huffy and announces that she wants in. If Zevran's there he might join in (if you let him).

So it can become a 4-some? XD sweet.

Playing as a girl, you can get a hardened Alistair and a hardened Leliana to have a foursome,but Zevran won't join in if Alistair's involved.

[blademaster7]

You guys may not know, but if Leliana is hardened, she agrees to be your mistress if you marry Anora/Alistair.



Her "in love" speech is also supposed to be different. She's not supposed to say the Maker brought you together.



The game is bugged and will only give you her "unhardened responses".



Keep an eye on ejoslin's mod.