219 réponses à ce sujet

[Loki330]

On a side note you can side with Branka and in the immediate cutscene make her realise the enourmity of what she's done; if you do so she'll destroy the anvil herself and divebomb the lava herself. And no, you don't get her mace too.

[Recidiva]

I can't possibly side with Branka.



Feeding her people to the darkspawn on purpose to make more darkspawn to feed into the traps.



Also, if Shale's with you, you lose her and if you don't have Shale with you, you lose her side quest opportunity.



Can't for any reason justify siding with her.



Legion of the Dead will join the final battle if you convince the leader to stand with you. Legionnaires will spawn randomly during the final fights. They're a lot better than the regular guys and one of 'em did a good job tanking the Archdemon once.

[Recidiva]

Legion of the Dead will join the final battle if you convince the leader to stand with you. Legionnaires will spawn randomly during the final fights. They're a lot better than the regular guys and one of 'em did a good job tanking the Archdemon once. This is possible right after exiting the Council Chambers after you crown a king.

Modifié par Recidiva, 29 novembre 2009 - 06:13 .

[Herr Uhl]

The reason to side with her is to gain an awesome army of golems.

[Cuthlan]

I'm only siding with Branka for the trophy, then reloading. To date I've never sided with her, and even on my "evil" playthrough I wont because Shale is my tank.

[The Angry One]

I wish there were a way to keep the anvil and not side with Branka - Caradin is such an idiot, it should be possible to reason with him instead of going with his "oh nooooooooes anvil evil!" stance.

[Recidiva]

The Angry One wrote...

I wish there were a way to keep the anvil and not side with Branka - Caradin is such an idiot, it should be possible to reason with him instead of going with his "oh nooooooooes anvil evil!" stance.

It seems absolutely silly to be setting up all these traps and not just chipping away at the ledge where the anvil rests, doesn't it?

But I'll have to take his word on how horrific and final becoming a golem is.

[qthulu]

I didnt realy understand why is the anvil evil at all. Carridan wasnt realy convincing about the matter either.

Its not realy sacraficing as the dwarfs becoming golems retain their memory, so basicly the same person just made from rock.

Sure Branka is a bit crazy but then Carridan is unreasonable. Why would keeping a powerfull artifact that can be used to fight to fight the darkspawn and save the dwarfs be evil?

[Loki330]

Recidiva wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I wish there were a way to keep the anvil and not side with Branka - Caradin is such an idiot, it should be possible to reason with him instead of going with his "oh nooooooooes anvil evil!" stance.

It seems absolutely silly to be setting up all these traps and not just chipping away at the ledge where the anvil rests, doesn't it?

But I'll have to take his word on how horrific and final becoming a golem is.

Someone didn't find his jounral apparently. Making golems involves lots of molten iron being poured into the golem 'suit'. While the dwarf inside is very alive, and very concious. Plus the whole control rod thing turning you into a total slave. Shale is the exception, not the rule.
 At first it was volunteers but then politcal opponents started getting made into them and others were kidnapped, including iirc casteless.

[Recidiva]

qthulu wrote...

I didnt realy understand why is the anvil evil at all. Carridan wasnt realy convincing about the matter either.
Its not realy sacraficing as the dwarfs becoming golems retain their memory, so basicly the same person just made from rock.
Sure Branka is a bit crazy but then Carridan is unreasonable. Why would keeping a powerfull artifact that can be used to fight to fight the darkspawn and save the dwarfs be evil?

The anvil isn't evil.  Dwarven leaders all are, so far, though.

Branka's not just a "bit crazy" any more than Loghain's just a "little bit paranoid."

Caradin describes the hammer opening his eyes.  I'd have to take the word of someone who was forcibly made into a golem, and himself described the place as swimming in blood. 

I take it it isn't JUST becoming a golem that is horrible, it's the process of being made into a golem.  And then being a living creature under the sway of someone else's control rod.

I asked Morrigan if she wanted to be the first golem.  Ask yourself that.  And who would you give the rod to?

[RVallant]

qthulu wrote...

I didnt realy understand why is the anvil evil at all. Carridan wasnt realy convincing about the matter either.
Its not realy sacraficing as the dwarfs becoming golems retain their memory, so basicly the same person just made from rock.
Sure Branka is a bit crazy but then Carridan is unreasonable. Why would keeping a powerfull artifact that can be used to fight to fight the darkspawn and save the dwarfs be evil?

Cairdan specifically states the only reason he retains his mind is because his apprentices didn't know how to fashion a control rod. Thus it can be said if you have a control rod fashioned for you, volunteer or no you won't retain your mind.

Effectively a sacrifice of a life for a construct.

[congokurtz]

You can side with Branka and keep Shale as well as get Shale's side quest. Make sure Shale is not in the party when you encounter Caradin and side with Branka. As mentioned above Shale will attack you if she is present. After siding with Branka, Shale will ask you about the encounter when you are back in camp. If you have the proper persuade skill you can basically lie to Shale and not lose any rep with her and also get her side quest to find her old home in the deep roads.



I think Allister will disapprove if you side with Branka, but obviously Ogrehn approves and I believe Morrigan dug the move as well.

[qthulu]

RVallant wrote...

Cairdan specifically states the only reason he retains his mind is because his apprentices didn't know how to fashion a control rod. Thus it can be said if you have a control rod fashioned for you, volunteer or no you won't retain your mind.

Effectively a sacrifice of a life for a construct.

Well then if noone knows how to make control rods anymore then every golem made would retain their minds, and wouldnt be "sacrafice"

[Recidiva]

congokurtz wrote...

You can side with Branka and keep Shale as well as get Shale's side quest. Make sure Shale is not in the party when you encounter Caradin and side with Branka. As mentioned above Shale will attack you if she is present. After siding with Branka, Shale will ask you about the encounter when you are back in camp. If you have the proper persuade skill you can basically lie to Shale and not lose any rep with her and also get her side quest to find her old home in the deep roads.

I think Allister will disapprove if you side with Branka, but obviously Ogrehn approves and I believe Morrigan dug the move as well.

You can gain back Oghren's approval almost immediately by asking him to ask Caradin for the boon.  He asks to have Branka made into a golem, Caradin refuses, then he asks for his help in settling the king question.

[Loki330]

In the talking the Legion of the Dead to help in the final fight: I like the idea of what the surfacers make of the Legion. I doubt many have even heard of them, so to an extent they'd probably be very frightening to the humans and elves.

Modifié par Loki330, 29 novembre 2009 - 06:40 .

[Leo]

qthulu wrote...


Well then if noone knows how to make control rods anymore then every golem made would retain their minds, and wouldnt be "sacrafice"

Branka figured out how to make a control rod.

[Majspuffen]

How -can- you choose Branka? She deserves to die, ten times over. I've played through that part three times, when I was "supposed" to choose Branka, I still couldn't. It goes against all my ethics to help her. Same with the cult of andraste. I tried to unlock the reaver, but halfway through the gauntlet I quit, it felt so wrong... and why is it that people cant make their own choices?

[qthulu]

Pious_Augustine wrote...

Branka figured out how to make a control rod.

Well the point is that you dont "have to" make a control rod to make golems.
So it could be used to create golems from volunteer dwarfs who would retain their free will.
The anvil could be used in an evil way of course but that doesnt make it evil.

[Herr Uhl]

It is not choosing Branka as a person that is the thing to consider, she is clearly bonkers. If they could get the anvil working, they might be able to turn the tide of darkspawn that they have fought for centuries.



Caradin seemed to have no problem with those that volunteered, just that the current legion of the dead would forcibly be made into golems, for starters.

[Recidiva]

Someone didn't find his jounral apparently. Making golems involves lots of molten iron being poured into the golem 'suit'. While the dwarf inside is very alive, and very concious. Plus the whole control rod thing turning you into a total slave. Shale is the exception, not the rule.
 At first it was volunteers but then politcal opponents started getting made into them and others were kidnapped, including iirc casteless.

My first few times through the game were on the X-Box 360 and I found the Codex very frustrating to work my way through.  "What did I just get?  Where is that?"  (go to codex, try to sort through a bezillion entries)  "Now...was that a creature or lore or...how do I know, I just picked the thing up.  Ugh!"

Computer is a lot easier if I can click on the "Found Codex" icon fast enough to get to it quickly.  But alas I didn't know about "Tab" to locate codex entries until about...an hour ago.  I've been relying on mouseover and that SUCKS.

So now I'm fully armed.  *flex*

[Recidiva]

qthulu wrote...

Pious_Augustine wrote...

Branka figured out how to make a control rod.

Well the point is that you dont "have to" make a control rod to make golems.
So it could be used to create golems from volunteer dwarfs who would retain their free will.
The anvil could be used in an evil way of course but that doesnt make it evil.

The point is that the only one who will provide you with your army of golems is Branka.

You don't get to pick who is in charge.  Or what she's going to do to accomplish her vision of the glory days of Orzammar.  But I'm guessing it's not pretty based on her previous choices.

Considering she's mostly responsible for allowing the darkspawn to breed unchecked in the deep trenches and did so by FEEDING her lover and her clan to them, I'm guessing you'd have very little creative control so to speak.

[Vansen Elamber]

After reading this quest the only reason I can see to side with Branka is to get the achievement points, otherwise you will always be missing that achievement I guess....

[Realmzmaster]

The Legion of the Dead are like the Grey Wardens they take everyone regardless of caste. The Legion of the Dead are made up of criminals (fighting the darkspawn instead of being executed) to noble who are disgraced. There job is to hold back the darkspawn in the Deep Roads. The Legion of the Dead like the Grey Wardens because at the end of the Grey Warden's lifespan they come down to help the Legion and battle till they die.

[Brigonos]

It's odd that so many experts on Shale don't know her gender.

[tmp7704]

Shale's gender isn't something that needs to be spoiled when it's not necessary. More fun to let people find it out themselves.