243 réponses à ce sujet

[Tlazolteotl]

It was all a dream.

That would make me cry.

[viverravid]

just wanted to respond to a couple of points raised.

A couple of posters suggested that the reapers were somehow taking the consciousness of their victims - this was part of my problem, there is no way rendering something down into goop can preserve the consciousness, or 'essence' of someone - the information is in the structure, not the material itself. Destroying the structure destroys the information. That's the whole point of the book analogy - the information is in the arrangement of the ink and paper, not the materials themselves.

I guess if you're doing it with hi-tech nano-bots that record the structure as they dissasemble... hey you just threw Bioware a lifeline. Hope they use it.

They other point raised was another variation on the nanomachines thing (the guy talking about 'physical indoctrination'). I agree the codex kind of hints at that. So does one of the computer dialogs on the derelict reaper. I'll be be relieved if that is where they are going with this.

But neither of those explains the human skeleton appearance. Guess it's the intimidation option. How does it scale up to reaper size? Don't ask, just shoot the glowy eye.

And yes I get that that the other tech is also scientifically impossible, but it is plausible given the new materials and new laws of physics mentioned, and it's internally consistent. The whole series has gone on about genetics exactly as we understand it now, then boom.. headshot. Human reaper larva.

(How are husks and co way better than the strogg? Plausible backstory, context, included in a way better game. Not that i didn't love Q2 to death at the time ... but we've moved on.)

[Solomen]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

It was all a dream.
That would make me cry.

Shepard wakes up in a Cerberus mental ward... "You went insane when we activated you and destroyed the Lazarus base, babbling about collecting something."

[Shazzammer2]

It was just a silly little boss.

[viverravid]

Oh, and using a cannon to reach the moon has been seriously suggested multiple times - though more often as using a cannon on the moon to return materials mined on the moon to earth. So long as the cannon is aimed to insert the payload into orbit, rather than crash it onto the surface, it works fine.



So the mass relays aren't stupid in that way. Stupid in other ways, but there is phlebotinum in the game universe to cover that.

[Solomen]

Unobtainium drive cores ftw

[Tilarta]

misposted, deleted

Modifié par Tilarta, 14 avril 2010 - 02:32 .

[Spinnazie]

Great constructive post.



I hate the final boss in ME2.

[Marstead]

The fetus reaper makes more sense:



http://social.biowar...index/2046748/1

[ExtremeOne]

The end boss was a freaking joke and it was really silly and pathetic.

[Tlazolteotl]

Solomen wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

It was all a dream.
That would make me cry.

Shepard wakes up in a Cerberus mental ward... "You went insane when we activated you and destroyed the Lazarus base, babbling about collecting something."

Cerberus shrink: You also had a wet dream about some woman who runs around shooting things in heels and lycra. What have you got to say about that?
Shepard: ....

[JKoopman]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
even Harbinger is an exact copy of Sovereign

lolwhat, no it isn't. Harbinger has two carapace crests as opposed to Sovereign's one, a different number of legs, and its legs are oriented completely differently from Sovereign's.

Harbinger



Sovereign



Looks pretty close to me. There might be a few small differences namely at the very front of the "head" but the overall shape is remarkably similar. "Giant space squid" seems a pretty apt descriptor for both.

[fanman72]

I think the reality is, the end boss in ME2 just looked very very corny. Definitely didn't vibe with other parts of the game. Some of the other concept art for end bosses looked great, i don't know why they didn't go with that. ME2 is a near perfect game IMO, but this was one of the few flaws

[EvilIguana966]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

It was all a dream.
That would make me cry.

Hah.  This would be an awesome secret alternate ending to ME3. 

[tallinn]

Why are reapers harvesting organic life? Well, if for no other reason then simply for the same reason that predators eat their prey: to obtain organic chemical components needed to feed themselves. The "human reaper" obviously needs organic components to complete and the reapers have the choice to assemble the chemical components from anorganic materials or collect them from organic life. The latter is easier.



This means that the point of being able to clone more DNA from a single copy of DNA is not really killing the story. I do not think that the Reapers want to clone DNA. The want to collect all variants. However even if they would like to clone the best DNA they would need the substances required to assemble new nucleotids. You find pretty much of those substances in every DNA-based organic life form. Why are the Reapers focusing on human beings will be probably be explained in ME3.



Why do the Reapers shape each new Reaper after the life form used to built it? Don't know but I assume they like it that way. May be some kind of "religious" thing, building a kind of ever-living resemblance of the most advanced race found on each harvest. A monument so to say.



And the final question why the Reapers build themselves like they do (i.e. mixing cybernetic and organic components) is the same question as why bees are what they are (or any other life-form that is). Nature did invent them that way just by playing around. Once happen to come into existence, everything lives forever as long as it is capable of surviving. Just another crazy form of life.



It is a related open story line why the Collectors were after Shepard. It looks like they are after his DNA code but why?

[JKoopman]

tallinn wrote...

Why are reapers harvesting organic life? Well, if for no other reason then simply for the same reason that predators eat their prey: to obtain organic chemical components needed to feed themselves. The "human reaper" obviously needs organic components to complete and the reapers have the choice to assemble the chemical components from anorganic materials or collect them from organic life. The latter is easier.

This means that the point of being able to clone more DNA from a single copy of DNA is not really killing the story. I do not think that the Reapers want to clone DNA. The want to collect all variants. However even if they would like to clone the best DNA they would need the substances required to assemble new nucleotids. You find pretty much of those substances in every DNA-based organic life form. Why are the Reapers focusing on human beings will be probably be explained in ME3.

Why do the Reapers shape each new Reaper after the life form used to built it? Don't know but I assume they like it that way. May be some kind of "religious" thing, building a kind of ever-living resemblance of the most advanced race found on each harvest. A monument so to say.

And the final question why the Reapers build themselves like they do (i.e. mixing cybernetic and organic components) is the same question as why bees are what they are (or any other life-form that is). Nature did invent them that way just by playing around. Once happen to come into existence, everything lives forever as long as it is capable of surviving. Just another crazy form of life.

It is a related open story line why the Collectors were after Shepard. It looks like they are after his DNA code but why?

The fact of the matter is, ME2 Reapers don't jive with ME1 Reapers. ME1 Reapers held organic evolution in contempt and viewed organic races as insignificant ants scurrying about the feet of giants that were infinitely their superiors. ME2 Reapers apparently worship organic genetic diversity and their sole reason for existing is to ellevate chosen organic races to "godhood" along side them.

Those seem like disparate philosophies to me. I got the impression from ME1 that Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them, least of all incorporating organics into their very beings.

Modifié par JKoopman, 14 avril 2010 - 04:39 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

JKoopman wrote...

The fact of the matter is, ME2 Reapers don't jive with ME1 Reapers. ME1 Reapers held organic evolution in contempt and viewed organic races as insignificant ants scurrying about the feet of giants that were infinitely their superiors. ME2 Reapers apparently worship organic genetic diversity and their sole reason for existing is to ellevate chosen organic races to "godhood" along side them.

Those seem like disparate philosophies to me. I got the impression from ME1 that Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them, least of all incorporating organics into their very beings.

Saren at the end of ME1 comments on how he has become a perfect fusion of "organic and machine". At first, I thought it was an odd twist as well. But there is some foreshadowing from Saren that could indicate how Reapers are created.

. Plus, despite how they might seem to be critical of organics, the Reapers have absolutely no qualms with using some such as Saren/Krogans for their own ends. If organics were truly worthless, they would not bother with this at all. If they were so supportive of machines, they would also probably hold the Geth in higher regard. That they do not perhaps hints that the Reapers are something beyond either's scope.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 avril 2010 - 07:08 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

The fact of the matter is, ME2 Reapers don't jive with ME1 Reapers. ME1 Reapers held organic evolution in contempt and viewed organic races as insignificant ants scurrying about the feet of giants that were infinitely their superiors. ME2 Reapers apparently worship organic genetic diversity and their sole reason for existing is to ellevate chosen organic races to "godhood" along side them.

Those seem like disparate philosophies to me. I got the impression from ME1 that Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them, least of all incorporating organics into their very beings.

Saren at the end of ME1 comments on how he has become a perfect fusion of "organic and machine". At first, I thought it was an odd twist as well. But there is some foreshadowing from Saren that could indicate how Reapers are created.

. Plus, despite how they might seem to be critical of organics, the Reapers have absolutely no qualms with using some such as Saren/Krogans for their own ends. If organics were truly worthless, they would not bother with this at all. If they were so supportive of machines, they would also probably hold the Geth in higher regard. That they do not perhaps hints that the Reapers are something beyond either's scope.

Exactly. If the reapers don't care about the organics, why didn't they wipe out ALL of the Protheans? That is said on ME1 as well, not some ME2 retcon. Then the collectors showed on ME2.

[JKoopman]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

The fact of the matter is, ME2 Reapers don't jive with ME1 Reapers. ME1 Reapers held organic evolution in contempt and viewed organic races as insignificant ants scurrying about the feet of giants that were infinitely their superiors. ME2 Reapers apparently worship organic genetic diversity and their sole reason for existing is to ellevate chosen organic races to "godhood" along side them.

Those seem like disparate philosophies to me. I got the impression from ME1 that Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them, least of all incorporating organics into their very beings.

Saren at the end of ME1 comments on how he has become a perfect fusion of "organic and machine". At first, I thought it was an odd twist as well. But there is some foreshadowing from Saren that could indicate how Reapers are created.

. Plus, despite how they might seem to be critical of organics, the Reapers have absolutely no qualms with using some such as Saren/Krogans for their own ends. If organics were truly worthless, they would not bother with this at all. If they were so supportive of machines, they would also probably hold the Geth in higher regard. That they do not perhaps hints that the Reapers are something beyond either's scope.

Exactly. If the reapers don't care about the organics, why didn't they wipe out ALL of the Protheans? That is said on ME1 as well, not some ME2 retcon. Then the collectors showed on ME2.

They didn't wipe out all the Protheans because a) they didn't know about the survivors on Ilos and they used some as sleeper agents to weed out other survivors in hiding and more easily facilitate their annihilation. And Sovereign showed contempt for the Geth because they were a machine race created by organics and therefor inherently flawed and inferior.

I never said that organics were "worthless" to the Reapers. They clearly have their uses. But using Saren/Krogan/indoctrinated organics as disposable tools and pawns to be cast aside once the job is complete is not the equivalent of incorporating organics into the very being of the Reapers themselves. It's like the difference between showing contempt for another race of men while you use them for slave labor and welcoming them into your society with open arms.

Modifié par JKoopman, 14 avril 2010 - 10:12 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

JKoopman wrote...

I never said that organics were "worthless" to the Reapers. They clearly have their uses. But using Saren/Krogan/indoctrinated organics as disposable tools and pawns to be cast aside once the job is complete is not the equivalent of incorporating organics into the very being of the Reapers themselves. It's like the difference between showing contempt for another race of men while you use them for slave labor and welcoming them into your society with open arms.

"Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them." You also called organics 'insignificant ants'. I'd say this comes very closely to the definition of worthless. 

I would say the differences between your scenarios are more significant than you imply. Even in our own day and age, human beings have a tendency to mock each other's cultures, calling each other 'barbarians'. One might say because two people are both humans-they should welcome each other with open arms. This isn't the case.

The Reapers are no different. They may look at organics and says 'how pathetic!' or any number of insults. They may view organics as being "antiquated". Organics happen to be an element which is refined to create a Reaper. This does not mean the Reapers have to hold them in any higher respect for it. Hell, they throw around the phrase 'salvation through destruction'. This could easily imply that organic life's destruction leads to something greater.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 avril 2010 - 10:26 .

[Gill Kaiser]

JKoopman wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
even Harbinger is an exact copy of Sovereign

lolwhat, no it isn't. Harbinger has two carapace crests as opposed to Sovereign's one, a different number of legs, and its legs are oriented completely differently from Sovereign's.

PICS

Looks pretty close to me. There might be a few small differences namely at the very front of the "head" but the overall shape is remarkably similar. "Giant space squid" seems a pretty apt descriptor for both.

Harbinger:


Sovereign:


You can't see the differences? Sovereign is like a cuttlefish, whereas Harbinger is clearly some kind of arthropod, like a horseshoe crab or similar.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 14 avril 2010 - 11:20 .

[binaryemperor]

I hope we get to see a lot of detail shots of the different reapers in ME3. I think their visual differences make them interesting, almost artistic.

There is a lot more to them than just AI.

Modifié par binaryemperor, 14 avril 2010 - 10:56 .

[tonnactus]

Solomen wrote...


It means we don't suffer from the same genetic defects and can adapt better to new environments. 

Even ingame it doesnt make sense.Krogans adapted to biotic warfare in a short time so mordin has to made a new version of the genophage.
They also adept to the effects of the nuclear war in the past,could survive on toxic planets where other citadel races couldnt.(rachni wars) Only vorcha are more flexible.
But sure, humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

I never said that organics were "worthless" to the Reapers. They clearly have their uses. But using Saren/Krogan/indoctrinated organics as disposable tools and pawns to be cast aside once the job is complete is not the equivalent of incorporating organics into the very being of the Reapers themselves. It's like the difference between showing contempt for another race of men while you use them for slave labor and welcoming them into your society with open arms.

"Reapers didn't want anything to do with organic races beyond destroying them." You also called organics 'insignificant ants'. I'd say this comes very closely to the definition of worthless. 

I would say the differences between your scenarios are more significant than you imply. Even in our own day and age, human beings have a tendency to mock each other's cultures, calling each other 'barbarians'. One might say because two people are both humans-they should welcome each other with open arms. This isn't the case.

The Reapers are no different. They may look at organics and says 'how pathetic!' or any number of insults. They may view organics as being "antiquated". Organics happen to be an element which is refined to create a Reaper. This does not mean the Reapers have to hold them in any higher respect for it. Hell, they throw around the phrase 'salvation through destruction'. This could easily imply that organic life's destruction leads to something greater.

Exactly again. "We are the harbinger of your perfection."

[Solomen]

tonnactus wrote...

Solomen wrote...


It means we don't suffer from the same genetic defects and can adapt better to new environments. 

Even ingame it doesnt make sense.Krogans adapted to biotic warfare in a short time so mordin has to made a new version of the genophage.
They also adept to the effects of the nuclear war in the past,could survive on toxic planets where other citadel races couldnt.(rachni wars) Only vorcha are more flexible.
But sure, humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

You are missing the point