243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ooga600]

the reapers body is definitely synthetic. i think the endoskeleton is simply a design choice. the human paste or whatever is probably used to create some sort of hive mind creature, not build the thing.

[Solomen]

It seems like people just aren't paying attention... I see what the devs did with the reapers...

[Substance-E]

If the pseudoscience in this game makes you cry them avoid all scfi with the word "Star" in their name lest your head explode trying to figure out how to beam up to a lightsaber duel through a wormhole...

[pacer90]

I'm sorry, but does your DNA goo making machine NOT produce machines like this? Oh what NO ONE makes massive AI constructs bent on destroying the world?



So you have no idea what's going on? OH OKK

[Mokthr]

I imagine the people who have a problem with the "realism" behind the science in this game have a hard time playing a lot of other games.



Just imagine them trying to wrap their heads around how some guy could survive a huge explosion only to gain electric powers while everyone around him dies in Infamous. Just the absurdity of it all would force them to turn the game off after the opening cut scene

[Solomen]

The reapers are really tiny biotically active parasites. A long time ago in a galaxy far away a species similar to humans called them,,,

...

...



Midoclorians

[Massadonious1]

Solomen wrote...

The reapers are really tiny biotically active parasites. A long time ago in a galaxy far away a species similar to humans called them,,,
...
...

Midoclorians

So that is where Darth Revan went.

It all makes sense.

[Nightwriter]

nikki191 wrote...

It boggles my mind that people cant be bothered to read a few paragraphs of text. people read these things called books that have multiple pages of text, if you cant be bothered to read a few paragraphs then why bother posting at all if all you do is complain and tell the poster to condense it

Lol. Well, it's not hard to understand.

The internet is hardly book reading. It's a high speed exchange environment. We're response-oriented: we're interested in our own responses and seeing the replies to those responses. We want to talk.

We tend to only read as much as we need to in order to facilitate that talking.

Forums themselves are essentially delayed instant messaging. It's a give and take environment; if we see that the reading is too much with too little reward, even the must indulgent and patient mind will move on to something else.

[enormousmoonboots]

Solomen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Solomen wrote...

It means we don't suffer from the same genetic defects and can adapt better to new environments. 

Even ingame it doesnt make sense.Krogans adapted to biotic warfare in a short time so mordin has to made a new version of the genophage.
They also adept to the effects of the nuclear war in the past,could survive on toxic planets where other citadel races couldnt.(rachni wars) Only vorcha are more flexible.
But sure, humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

You are missing the point

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

Mokthr wrote...

I imagine the people who have a problem with the "realism" behind the science in this game have a hard time playing a lot of other games.

Just imagine them trying to wrap their heads around how some guy could survive a huge explosion only to gain electric powers while everyone around him dies in Infamous. Just the absurdity of it all would force them to turn the game off after the opening cut scene

I never get why people say this. There's a massive difference between the standards for comic book science and science-fiction science. I love comic books, I love JRPGs, and I love sci-fi. But it doesn't make sense to judge them all by the same standard since they're all clearly going for very different goals. Mass Effect tries to hold itself as an internally consistent, relatively realistic piece of science fiction (you see any of those 'Science of Mass Effect TV spots?). Therefore, when it fails at doing that, it's pretty notable.

[Solomen]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Solomen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Solomen wrote...

It means we don't suffer from the same genetic defects and can adapt better to new environments. 

Even ingame it doesnt make sense.Krogans adapted to biotic warfare in a short time so mordin has to made a new version of the genophage.
They also adept to the effects of the nuclear war in the past,could survive on toxic planets where other citadel races couldnt.(rachni wars) Only vorcha are more flexible.
But sure, humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

You are missing the point

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

Mokthr wrote...

I imagine the people who have a problem with the "realism" behind the science in this game have a hard time playing a lot of other games.

Just imagine them trying to wrap their heads around how some guy could survive a huge explosion only to gain electric powers while everyone around him dies in Infamous. Just the absurdity of it all would force them to turn the game off after the opening cut scene

I never get why people say this. There's a massive difference between the standards for comic book science and science-fiction science. I love comic books, I love JRPGs, and I love sci-fi. But it doesn't make sense to judge them all by the same standard since they're all clearly going for very different goals. Mass Effect tries to hold itself as an internally consistent, relatively realistic piece of science fiction (you see any of those 'Science of Mass Effect TV spots?). Therefore, when it fails at doing that, it's pretty notable.

Only the minority of the krogans that had blood rage survived a nuclear holocaust

Bottleneck

[Massadonious1]

We are trying to base what is possible in the future based on current science and biology. Who's to say we haven't evolved? Science fiction writers should get a little leeway in building their future worlds. I'm sure the ME dudes aren't the first and probably wont be the last to suggest that humans are more genetically diverse than made up aliens.

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

But that adaptability to the environment is just one kind of genetic trait. Their only remarkable genetic trait actually.  The full range of genetic traits that the Collectors are looking for go far beyond this - they're looking for diversity in intelligence, mindset, modes of behavior, beliefs, physical makeup, abilities, etc.

When you consider all this, the vorcha are very singular and monotone. They all have the same intelligence, the same personality, and the same behavior. Lack of genetic "defects", as Solomen puts it, is not enough.

I never get why people say this. There's a massive difference between the standards for comic book science and science-fiction science. I love comic books, I love JRPGs, and I love sci-fi. But it doesn't make sense to judge them all by the same standard since they're all clearly going for very different goals. Mass Effect tries to hold itself as an internally consistent, relatively realistic piece of science fiction (you see any of those 'Science of Mass Effect TV spots?). Therefore, when it fails at doing that, it's pretty notable.

I agree. I don't examine all science fiction with scoffing derision or intense scientific scrutiny - you afford the story the assumptions its setting allows. If you look too closely it ruins it.

However, there are lines. They can push what I can believe. There are levels of sci-fi, and Mass Effect tries to at least put up the pretense of being scientifically believable.

Then they slap you with the human Reaper smoothie and you're like wtf.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 15 avril 2010 - 07:34 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Solomen wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Solomen wrote...
You are missing the point

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

Mokthr wrote...

I imagine the people who have a problem with the "realism" behind the science in this game have a hard time playing a lot of other games.

Just imagine them trying to wrap their heads around how some guy could survive a huge explosion only to gain electric powers while everyone around him dies in Infamous. Just the absurdity of it all would force them to turn the game off after the opening cut scene

I never get why people say this. There's a massive difference between the standards for comic book science and science-fiction science. I love comic books, I love JRPGs, and I love sci-fi. But it doesn't make sense to judge them all by the same standard since they're all clearly going for very different goals. Mass Effect tries to hold itself as an internally consistent, relatively realistic piece of science fiction (you see any of those 'Science of Mass Effect TV spots?). Therefore, when it fails at doing that, it's pretty notable.

Only the minority of the krogans that had blood rage survived a nuclear holocaust

Bottleneck

I know that. That's why I said 'except maybe krogan'. What about the other races in the galaxy? Turians, salarians, asari--they haven't had a near-extinction to ruin their numbers.

[enormousmoonboots]

Nightwriter wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

But that adaptability to the environment is just one kind of genetic trait. Their only remarkable genetic trait actually.  The full range of genetic traits that the Collectors are looking for go far beyond this - they're looking for diversity in intelligence, mindset, modes of behavior, beliefs, physical makeup, abilities, etc.

When you consider all this, the vorcha are very singular and monotone. They all have the same intelligence, the same personality, and the same behavior. Lack of genetic "defects", as Solomen puts it, is not enough.

But those have no or only the smallest link to actual genetic traits. Nature versus nurture, that kind of stuff. This is just sending me into the same confusion we're having in the other thread...what the HELL are the Reapers selecting for?!

Aaaah, the second game raises far more questions than it solves...

[Solomen]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Solomen wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Solomen wrote...
You are missing the point

Apparently I'm missing it too, because I don't follow you. The other races (except maybe krogan) haven't been whittled down to a fraction of their population and tried to rebuild from that, like the cheetah. What makes you think that all of the other races are full of genetic defects? And vorcha can adapt to new environments way better than humans can.

Mokthr wrote...

I imagine the people who have a problem with the "realism" behind the science in this game have a hard time playing a lot of other games.

Just imagine them trying to wrap their heads around how some guy could survive a huge explosion only to gain electric powers while everyone around him dies in Infamous. Just the absurdity of it all would force them to turn the game off after the opening cut scene

I never get why people say this. There's a massive difference between the standards for comic book science and science-fiction science. I love comic books, I love JRPGs, and I love sci-fi. But it doesn't make sense to judge them all by the same standard since they're all clearly going for very different goals. Mass Effect tries to hold itself as an internally consistent, relatively realistic piece of science fiction (you see any of those 'Science of Mass Effect TV spots?). Therefore, when it fails at doing that, it's pretty notable.

Only the minority of the krogans that had blood rage survived a nuclear holocaust

Bottleneck

I know that. That's why I said 'except maybe krogan'. What about the other races in the galaxy? Turians, salarians, asari--they haven't had a near-extinction to ruin their numbers.

Salarians have a pedigree.  90% of salarians are also male.
Asari require interface outside their species or they end up producing sterile ardat-yakshi.
Turians and Quarians are dextro-amino.  Turians might be close to humans in variability but quarians were nearly wiped out. 
So far humans win the genetic diversity prize  unfortunately we don't want it

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But that adaptability to the environment is just one kind of genetic trait. Their only remarkable genetic trait actually.  The full range of genetic traits that the Collectors are looking for go far beyond this - they're looking for diversity in intelligence, mindset, modes of behavior, beliefs, physical makeup, abilities, etc.

When you consider all this, the vorcha are very singular and monotone. They all have the same intelligence, the same personality, and the same behavior. Lack of genetic "defects", as Solomen puts it, is not enough.

But those have no or only the smallest link to actual genetic traits. Nature versus nurture, that kind of stuff. This is just sending me into the same confusion we're having in the other thread...what the HELL are the Reapers selecting for?!

Aaaah, the second game raises far more questions than it solves...

I think it's about the genetic potential for those traits, not the actual traits/genes themselves.

We have the most variant and diverse potential range for those traits.

[Collider]

Consider how different people can look in different parts of Earth. Granted, it's superficial, but for aliens they may be less varied genetically.

[enormousmoonboots]

Mordin tells you right out to discard appearance as far as genetic variability goes.



Why does the fact that turians are dextro make them less genetically diverse? It just means their DNA spins the other way.



Most salarians being male shouldn't matter for diversity. Their family trees are complex, but I think they're smart enough to avoid inbreeding. In fact, they very rigorously select for desirable traits, which means they're adapting more than humans are.

[Nightwriter]

Is it ever stated that turians being dextro based has anything to do with any intrinsic lack of genetic diversity? Or the same for salarians and their being primarily male?

[Solomen]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Mordin tells you right out to discard appearance as far as genetic variability goes.

Why does the fact that turians are dextro make them less genetically diverse? It just means their DNA spins the other way.

Most salarians being male shouldn't matter for diversity. Their family trees are complex, but I think they're smart enough to avoid inbreeding. In fact, they very rigorously select for desirable traits, which means they're adapting more than humans are.

Actually animals with a pedigree are less genetically diverse than those that breed in the wild.  Plus with only 10% of the population being female that forces a constraint on which salarians can breed.  The 10% of the females are a limited breeding selection.  It isn't about selecting for desirable traits, it is the potential for those traits to occur.
As to the turians the dextro-amino physiology limits the environments where they can thrive since the majority of the galaxy seems to be levo-amino dextro-sugar.  Being dextro alone wasn't enough so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.  Quarians on the other hand are dextro and were nearly wiped out by the geth.  Spending 300 years with a static breeding population in a sterile environment has damaged their genetic potential.

[tonnactus]

Solomen wrote...

Only the minority of the krogans that had blood rage survived a nuclear holocaust

Bottleneck

Wrong.They still adapt so fast that the salarians had to make a new version of the genophage.It wouldnt be necessary if the krogans that survive the nuclear war are "battlenecks".

[Jonesey2k]

It always annoys me that I have to fight the end boss full stop. I'm going to blow this whole base into tiny chunks anyway so why bother?

[JMA22TB]

I'm starting to wonder if the whole Collector threat was just a distraction by the Reapers to lure Shepard out of their way so they could work on a separate project. I don't have any proof but here's my idea:

-Redemption shows Harbinger witnessing Shepard's body being taken at the last possible moment. It's safe to say that its plan to harvest humanity spawned immediately afterward, since hundreds of thousands of colonists were taken by the time Shepard woke up.

Miranda was in charge of the Lazarus project but she was just the director - Wilson was the chief medical guy. Nothing suggests in the current galactic community that people can revive or animate sapient beings except Warlord Okeer, who had to make a deal with the Collectors to obtain the data. It looks like it took him a long time to get that done too, so maybe that's where TIM got the idea - 2 years sounds like the amount of time it would take to trial and error your way into growing the perfect specimen. So with that in mind, here's what I think happened:

Sovereign's destruction presented an opportunity to TIM, who ordered an excavation team to find any useful data. At the same time, he was closely observing the Shepard recovery team with Miranda and Feron, who were successful. The Collectors wanting to obtain Shepard is suspicious, so he starts scouring for leads regarding them, leading to Okeer and his 'perfect krogan' experiment. The last part is the speculation but it fits: he orders Wilson to contact the Collectors to find out how to bring a human back from the dead, telling him to be very discreet and to not rouse suspicion. If they wanted to know why, he'd pretend it was his wife or some lost family member.

Miranda recovers the body, Wilson gets to work, and TIM focuses his attention on re-building the Normandy, using his portfolio and Alliance backers to access the materials in the way EDI described late in the game. Wilson's contact with the Collectors is monitored by TIM and he has him contact them multiple times so he can ascertain what's going on with the colony abductions, although they don't give him any proof.

As the project is right on the verge of being completed, Wilson hears about the abductions and assumes the Collectors are involved, making him feel very worried about his involvement with them - what if they find out what he's doing? Will they target him, his family? He starts freaking out and looking for more money from Miranda and TIM so he can get out of Dodge, then loses it entirely, activating the mechs and trying to destroy the facility and Shepard to protect himself, looking to take the shuttle out and disappear. Of course, we know what happens and he fails.

While TIM couldn't get any hard evidence from the Collectors in that span, he knows that's who is most likely responsible because he knows they wanted Shepard's body and (in this theory) gave Wilson the means to bring back the dead - they're advanced, no one can reach their homeworld, and require 'samples' in their exchanges. The patterns are there, as he said. He was confident Shepard could find evidence quickly and was right, setting forth ME2's events.

I would conjecture that Harbinger didn't specifically know that Cerberus was working on Shepard, but once they run into you on Horizon, it connects the dots - a Cerberus agent wanted to find data about reviving the dead and Shepard was able to fight them with a strike team without them knowing. Of course, it's too late in the game for the Collectors at this point, but their success wasn't the entire intention.

The separate project? The heretic geth built a space station between stars - basically off the grid. Who's to say that the Reapers didn't see that tactical advantage and devote their resources on a separate station? Build a new mass relay to connect to their position in dark space, maybe? The heretic geth are the ultimate cheap labor force, and we still don't know what the newly converted or recently destroyed geth faction knew, so it would make sense. Besides, if Sovereign was monitoring communications the way Legion said, it wouldn't be a surprise to start early and convert the heretic faction to separate them from the original group, then carry out the dual plan of building a new dark space relay and helping Saren get into the Citadel - the quickest option. As to why Sovereign risked it all in the Citadel battle - it did not know that Vigil possessed a means to gain control of the station's control so it thought it was smooth sailing.

Modifié par JMA22TB, 15 avril 2010 - 05:08 .