117 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Hey, this may be a stupid question, but I never really understood the purpose behind the plague the Collectors released on Omega. Why did they do that? Can anyone tell me?

I thought the Collectors' whole goal was to find a suitable race for Reaper reproduction and build a new one. Well, they'd already found humans suitable for the task and were abducting us for their purposes.

So why release this huge experimental plague on a bunch of non-humans to test genetic variances?

[Rivercurse]

Testing human genetic diversity, or something along those lines IIRC :-S

[Steel Dancer]

I uhhh... they needed a reason for Mordin to not just say "sure, why not, let's go"? Was kinda daft looking at it.

[huntrrz]

Mordin thought it was a test of genetic diversity, but he didn't know the Reapers had selected humanity for 'ascension'. They'd collect all the humans and kill everyone else, so the virus was one prong of their planned attack.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Because they knew Gavorn's tricks.

[DrAbysmal]

huntrrz wrote...

Mordin thought it was a test of genetic diversity, but he didn't know the Reapers had selected humanity for 'ascension'. They'd collect all the humans and kill everyone else, so the virus was one prong of their planned attack.

I pretty much bought into this theory as well. They wanted to weaken or eliminate other species that could interfere in the human snatching plot or resist when the invasion began. Nobody cares about Omega but it is home to a diverse amount of species, making it the perfect place for a trial run.

[STG]

I still find it annoying that out of all the races out there humans are somehow the best choice.



I mean look at us, we suck.

[Tilarta]

Well, the motivation for choosing humans was stated.



We're the only ones who killed a Reaper.



That brought us to their attention.

[enormousmoonboots]

STG wrote...

I still find it annoying that out of all the races out there humans are somehow the best choice.

I mean look at us, we suck.

Yeah, it kind of bugs me that humans are the HAX race after being on the galactic scene for less than fiftty years. Powerful enough to give the turians a serious fight in the First Contact War, using only their own resources? Whoa, what? Crying for a Council seat not even a generation after opening an embassy? And a race which the canon states* is growing less diverse is the most genetically diverse race? More genetically diverse than aliens who have been settling insular planetary colonies for thousands of years (what the hell is so primitive about the turians? Sure, economics isn't their strong suit, but they seem like a prime candidate)?

No wonder the volus hate us. I'd find us pretty obnoxious, too. We're the Mary Sue race.

*Kahlee Sanders yaks on about how humans are becoming more genetically similar and blondes are going extinct and that's why she's so gorgeous and ~special~. It's totally wrong science, but it's an established fact inside the universe, and the books have been held to be on an equal level of canon as the game.

[DarthCaine]

It was never really explained (just like Wilson's betrayal and why Harbinger wanted Shepard's body so much, though that's explained in cut dialogue)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 13 avril 2010 - 04:34 .

[Rivercurse]

STG wrote...

I still find it annoying that out of all the races out there humans are somehow the best choice.

I mean look at us, we suck.

Tell it to Sovreign

[smudboy]

Nightwriter wrote...

Hey, this may be a stupid question, but I never really understood the purpose behind the plague the Collectors released on Omega. Why did they do that? Can anyone tell me?

I thought the Collectors' whole goal was to find a suitable race for Reaper reproduction and build a new one. Well, they'd already found humans suitable for the task and were abducting us for their purposes.

So why release this huge experimental plague on a bunch of non-humans to test genetic variances?

There was a comment by one of the Vorcha you fight, about how the Collectors caused the plague, and you ask him what the Collectors want.  But it literally goes nowhere.

It would've been a great opportunity to hear the plight of the Vorcha, what they want, and why they were fighting you, instead of just being the token aggressive-angry-Batarian-like aliens.

We really need a good Vorcha and Batarian character to like.  I mean, these aliens have almost nothing likable about them, and they really should.

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Yeah, it kind of bugs me that humans are the HAX race after being on the galactic scene for less than fiftty years. Powerful enough to give the turians a serious fight in the First Contact War, using only their own resources? Whoa, what? Crying for a Council seat not even a generation after opening an embassy? And a race which the canon states* is growing less diverse is the most genetically diverse race? More genetically diverse than aliens who have been settling insular planetary colonies for thousands of years (what the hell is so primitive about the turians? Sure, economics isn't their strong suit, but they seem like a prime candidate)?

No wonder the volus hate us. I'd find us pretty obnoxious, too. We're the Mary Sue race.

*Kahlee Sanders yaks on about how humans are becoming more genetically similar and blondes are going extinct and that's why she's so gorgeous and ~special~. It's totally wrong science, but it's an established fact inside the universe, and the books have been held to be on an equal level of canon as the game.

What's totally wrong science? The concept that we'll all start to look more and more alike in the future?

And didn't Mordin say that you needed to disregard superficial characteristics when he was talking about human genetic variances? That it went deeper than that? Why does our starting to look more alike mean our genetic code isn't still optimal for experimentation and mutation?

I would quite like it if this so call uniqueness in our genetics was due in no small part to the Protheans and their experiments/studies of us. I often think, do the Collectors even remember that? Did they recall their Mars station and the data they collected on us from when they were Protheans? 

[Sajuro]

It could have also been to stoke anti human sentiment so the people of Omega wouldn't mind trading off humans for some tech

[docthe12th]

The wizard wanted them to do it. The one who is behind the Reapers and the dark matter disappearances.

[enormousmoonboots]

@ Nightwriter (for some reason the standard form's not loading for me, so let's hope I remember all the proper coding for quick reply since I doubt I can edit this)

Kahlee talks about the blonde extinction thing like it's a fact when it's actually the genetic equivalent of the Pop Rocks and Coke urban legend. Racial boundaries will probably blur in the future (hell, they're blurring now), but Recessive Genes Do Not Work That Way. Bad scientist! Bad!



I just have a lot of trouble buying the game's implication that humans are the perfect chosen race and also they have more initiative than the salarians and more military power than the turians--why bother setting up all these complex alien races if it's just to make humans look better? It just annoys me, as a sci-fi fan.



I do like your theory that the Protheans were the cause of humanity's uniqueness...but that just makes me want to know why the humans were the Protheans' selected race for study in the first place. Why not the raloi? Or the turians? Or the salarians? Or the asari? None of those races were spacefaring at the time. What makes humans so special?



It just seems like the answer comes down to 'because the POV character is human', which is such a copout in a fully-realized universe like this.

[TheLostGenius]

Lizardviking wrote...

Because they knew Gavorn's tricks.

Gavorn should be a recruitable love interest in ME3. His special ability "Vorcha Tricking".

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

@ Nightwriter (for some reason the standard form's not loading for me, so let's hope I remember all the proper coding for quick reply since I doubt I can edit this)
Kahlee talks about the blonde extinction thing like it's a fact when it's actually the genetic equivalent of the Pop Rocks and Coke urban legend. Racial boundaries will probably blur in the future (hell, they're blurring now), but Recessive Genes Do Not Work That Way. Bad scientist! Bad!

I just have a lot of trouble buying the game's implication that humans are the perfect chosen race and also they have more initiative than the salarians and more military power than the turians--why bother setting up all these complex alien races if it's just to make humans look better? It just annoys me, as a sci-fi fan.

I do like your theory that the Protheans were the cause of humanity's uniqueness...but that just makes me want to know why the humans were the Protheans' selected race for study in the first place. Why not the raloi? Or the turians? Or the salarians? Or the asari? None of those races were spacefaring at the time. What makes humans so special?

It just seems like the answer comes down to 'because the POV character is human', which is such a copout in a fully-realized universe like this.

Well... when is it ever implied that humans have more military power than the turians? Or that humans are supposed to be "better"?

Humans make better play-doh. That's the impression I got. I never thought along the lines that humans were better than the other races in any way because, like you, that's just not something I could ever buy.

Do you really think the Reapers/Collectors thought we were "better"?

Edit: thanks for that link, btw!

Modifié par Nightwriter, 14 avril 2010 - 04:12 .

[Bron Avery]

Lizardviking wrote...

Because they knew Gavorn's tricks.

Thats why "WE LEAVE! *Grunting sounds* It was not nice talking with them.

[Arijharn]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

@ Nightwriter (for some reason the standard form's not loading for me, so let's hope I remember all the proper coding for quick reply since I doubt I can edit this)
Kahlee talks about the blonde extinction thing like it's a fact when it's actually the genetic equivalent of the Pop Rocks and Coke urban legend. Racial boundaries will probably blur in the future (hell, they're blurring now), but Recessive Genes Do Not Work That Way. Bad scientist! Bad!

I just have a lot of trouble buying the game's implication that humans are the perfect chosen race and also they have more initiative than the salarians and more military power than the turians--why bother setting up all these complex alien races if it's just to make humans look better? It just annoys me, as a sci-fi fan.

I do like your theory that the Protheans were the cause of humanity's uniqueness...but that just makes me want to know why the humans were the Protheans' selected race for study in the first place. Why not the raloi? Or the turians? Or the salarians? Or the asari? None of those races were spacefaring at the time. What makes humans so special?

It just seems like the answer comes down to 'because the POV character is human', which is such a copout in a fully-realized universe like this.

To be honest, I disagree with you for one reason mainly: everyone likes to be the hero. The universe, the game, is escapist. I like the idea of being special and capable of doing something no one else can (although, I like the idea that others are able to assist me too).

Truth to be told though, if every species was special, why would the game's dramatic arc even exist? Why would the humans be rushed into the Spectre's? Why would anything in the game(s) happen if not for the dramatic? The Collectors abduct human colonies... the council species send in a massive fleet, loose probably a half of their forces for whatever reason, but manage to obliterate the collector base. Reapers invade in ME3, the rest of the council species organise a massive counter-invasion force and successfully repel the invaders, without so much as Commander Shephard getting out of his holiday house.

Also, humans aren't more intuitive than the salarians and have more military might than the Turians (at least, not prior to ME2), it's just that humans offer a 'unique' amalgram of those traits. They are not dependant on 'staid military doctrine.'

[sniper1250]

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Yeah, it kind of bugs me that humans are the HAX race after being on the
galactic scene for less than fiftty years.

If a game was about a galaxy that had aliens in it, and humans weren't a prominent or powerful race and could never in anyway compare to the powers that be, and you had to play as a human, would you honestly be able to say you would buy and play that? People play games to be bullies, not to be pushed around by them.
It's why I think people don't like Aria telling them they can't push her around in her own home/base, they have a mentality that they should be allowed to because they're just that badass.

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Powerful enough to give the turians a serious fight in the First Contact
War, using only their own resources?

As I understand it, we didn't really give them a "serious fight," it's more of a "they pushed us so we pushed them" kind of situation. They caught us opening a relay and tried to stop us, then took over the nearby colony world. Thinking it was our homeworld, they sat around patting themselves on the back thinking what a good job they just did getting another client species. Then one of our fleets shows up and frees said colony world and prepares for all out war. Turians get pissed and start to send an actual force to deal with us, and the council realizes we are something that should be talk to, not indescriminately killed and stops them.

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Crying for a Council seat not even a generation after opening an
embassy?

I think in the book you mention itself, the ambassador at the time realized that humans were so important already, after only being around for a few decades, that she could tell the council that humans refuse to take the rediculous punishments being given to them.

enormousmoonboots wrote...
And a race which the canon states* is growing less diverse is
the most genetically diverse race? More genetically diverse than
aliens who have been settling insular planetary colonies for thousands
of years (what the hell is so primitive about the turians? Sure,
economics isn't their strong suit, but they seem like a prime
candidate)?

I always figured that since genetic engineering comes along
eventually in a species rise to council-dom, the genetic diversity would
just plummet in more advanced races, reguardless of colonies. Or at least the ones that have
been at that level of advancement for a long time. After all, if there is no Malaria, there is no advantage to being a sickle cell carrier, so you might as well just engineer that out of everyone. One less point for diversity right there. At least, I think that's the example I wanted, might be something else.
So it makes sense
that the "youngest" species would be the most diverse, and over time lose that diversity as more advantageous genes are selected(faster and smarter kids are allowed, so long as you don't interfere too much and it's in the interest of health, marines are somewhat an exception to this rule. Miranda's level of modification is probably illegal.).
People keep bringing
in the logic that humans are the least diverse on earth, but I think that they keep forgetting that on a galactic
scale, earth is just one planet. While rare, there are still humans in the Mass Effect universe that have not undergone gene therapy to correct genetic illnesses even though it's usually offered by governments for free. Ashley Williams, for instance, underwent some gene-therapy to correct her vision before it ever went bad.

Yet another possible reason that the Reapers need to pop up so often. They have to get us before we all become similar looking gene wise, as well as before we can fight back.

[kenudigit]

You also got to remember that reapers travel here from dark space via the citadel mass relay.to save energy and strike at the heart of the galaxy's empire.they strip the resources and kill all intelligent life and go back into hibernation.Now they have to travel here under there own power witch should drain their power severally so it would make sense that if they could dwindle the galaxy's population before they even get there and leave the humans alive for the harvest of the building of their new reaper. (That my idea on the matter)

[Tlazolteotl]

I reckon the collectors put the plague there just to train Shepard. So that Shepard has the skillz for their final showdown.

Oh wait ... I think I've played too many JRPGs.

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

To be honest, I disagree with you for one reason mainly: everyone likes to be the hero. The universe, the game, is escapist. I like the idea of being special and capable of doing something no one else can (although, I like the idea that others are able to assist me too).

Truth to be told though, if every species was special, why would the game's dramatic arc even exist? Why would the humans be rushed into the Spectre's? Why would anything in the game(s) happen if not for the dramatic? The Collectors abduct human colonies... the council species send in a massive fleet, loose probably a half of their forces for whatever reason, but manage to obliterate the collector base. Reapers invade in ME3, the rest of the council species organise a massive counter-invasion force and successfully repel the invaders, without so much as Commander Shephard getting out of his holiday house.

Also, humans aren't more intuitive than the salarians and have more military might than the Turians (at least, not prior to ME2), it's just that humans offer a 'unique' amalgram of those traits. They are not dependant on 'staid military doctrine.'

Truth be told, you're right. But that doesn't mean we still don't like to look for, and find, reasons why our species is special and being singled out within the game's story itself.

We look for these explanations so much that my own mind invents reasons why we would be special - like, that our unique genetic variances are a result of Prothean experimentation.

We like to look for explanations that don't break our immersion factor. Especially when a game is very good.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 14 avril 2010 - 04:24 .

[enormousmoonboots]

@ Nightwriter

The First Contact War history implies that the turians could have wiped out the humans, but it would have been a serious fight. Which is just mind-boggling to me. It's worse than Ewoks beating stormtroopers, at least the Ewoks were on their own territory. The humans were just doo dee doo-ing off on a colony in the middle of nowhere.



The fact that calling on non-Council alien help is never brought up in the second game also implies that the humans somehow have more initiative than everyone else in the galaxy (even though the salarians are shown to be aware of the Reapers, Mordin wrote a goddamn paper on it). From a meta standpoint, I suppose it's because the game wants to force you to rely on TIM, but it's kind of sloppy.



If you bring alien crewmembers to the final fight (I think that's it, I've only ever heard like one of the lines in the actual game, picked up the rest anecdotally from other people and YouTube), Harbinger goes on. and. on about how each and every alien species is not as cool as humanity. "Turian, you are too primitive." "Krogan, you were considered, but are neutered." "Quarian, considered due to cybernetic enhancements, discarded due to weak immune system." "Salarian. Great adaptability, but lifespan too short." "Drell. Potential...but too rare." Human squaddies? "Human. Great biotic potential. Acceptable." "Human. Great genetic malleability. Acceptable." "Human. Great technological potential. Acceptable."



I'm paraphrasing a bit, but he puts down every single recruitable race as nowhere near as perfect and amazing as the humans. It gets tedious.