117 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

The most plausible explanation is that it was a controlled test to see its effects.



Anyway I think thats kind of what Mordin says? Can't remember. Must go back to scenario. There are vorcha. Need to kill them.

[The Angry One]

Rocket Weazle wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rocket Weazle wrote...

It was because humans had genetic maluebility rather than diversity.
If it was about diversity Asari would win hands down seeing as how actually reproducing with their own species is considered shameful.
I would love smoking hot Asari husks... Did I just say that?

Reliance on other species to reproduce shows genetic weakness.

It's not like they can't reproduce amongst themselves, Isn't it just an Asari myth that you're hurting the gene pool if your have pureblood children, but it isn't really seeing as both parents could have been fatherd by seperate species... Aw heck I don't know anything about genetics so I'm not gonna pretend.

Those are Harbinger's words, not mine.
And yes I know it makes him a massive hypocrite.

[The Angry One]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The most plausible explanation is that it was a controlled test to see its effects.

Anyway I think thats kind of what Mordin says? Can't remember. Must go back to scenario. There are vorcha. Need to kill them.

More or less, but Mordin is speculating however. Later on the "real" reason that they were clearing Omega of non-humans is revealed. Don't remember where.

[FlintlockJazz]

The virus kills people by causing mutations in the body. The Collectors were trying to create mutations in the non-human populations to increase their diversity. Mordin states that the virus doesn't affect humans because there is 'no point', due to their (supposed) greater genetic diversity.

[Jax Sparrow]

This is a good mystery though but that is all it is. The Harbinger could have any number of different scientific reasons for wanting to study genetic mutations. Mordin says Human are naturally so diverse genetically but that the other races are not so much. This is why the Collectors limited themselves to the slave trade of genetic 'anomalies'; until they started taking human colonies. I think the Collectors were studying the genetic mutations rather than intent on killing the creature. Killing the creature was secondary and a byproduct... a byproduct that is inevitable with that level of genetic mutation but still is a secondary effect.



They intentionally safeguarded the Humans because they needed billions... if not Trillions to finish that Human Reaper we fight *Checks to make sure this is a spoiler part of the forum*. So killing off large chunks of the human population would have been counter productive to their prime directive.



Maybe Harbinger needed the genetic mutation data for their Collector cloning vats. Repeatedly copying any genetic structure will probably suffer from code degradation. Similar to how incest increases the probability of there being genetic problems with the offspring. Maybe the genetic mutations was to "randomize" their genetic code. I only say probably because there are known organisms that are beyond the effects of aging. For instance, cancer cells replicate forever when given an everlasting food source.

[Nightwriter]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The virus kills people by causing mutations in the body. The Collectors were trying to create mutations in the non-human populations to increase their diversity. Mordin states that the virus doesn't affect humans because there is 'no point', due to their (supposed) greater genetic diversity.

Causing mutations in the body? Funny, there weren't really any corpses that looked freakish or mutated - in fact all the plague seemed to cause was a cough, and then death.

I think the only thing was that one batarian who had open sores, even though I couldn't even see the sores. On reflection, it would actually have been cooler for me if the plague had caused bodily mutations. Helped us to see visually what the Collectors were really trying to do here.

And Jax Sparrow, I thought the humans were spared the plague, not because they were being safeguarded by the Collectors, but because humans were already very genetically diverse and there was no point in testing them?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The virus kills people by causing mutations in the body. The Collectors were trying to create mutations in the non-human populations to increase their diversity. Mordin states that the virus doesn't affect humans because there is 'no point', due to their (supposed) greater genetic diversity.

Causing mutations in the body? Funny, there weren't really any corpses that looked freakish or mutated - in fact all the plague seemed to cause was a cough, and then death.

I think the only thing was that one batarian who had open sores, even though I couldn't even see the sores. On reflection, it would actually have been cooler for me if the plague had caused bodily mutations. Helped us to see visually what the Collectors were really trying to do here.

And Jax Sparrow, I thought the humans were spared the plague, not because they were being safeguarded by the Collectors, but because humans were already very genetically diverse and there was no point in testing them?

On something that small scale the most you would see would be sores.  The Mutations would occur within the body (cancerous tumors).  Like any "real life" mutation actually.

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

On something that small scale the most you would see would be sores.  The Mutations would occur within the body (cancerous tumors).  Like any "real life" mutation actually.

I don't understand if the plague was meant to kill (which it very much succeeded in doing, if that was the case) or to conduct experimentation and record results.

If so, who was supposed to collect the data, the outcomes? The vorcha? Hah. Right. Best they could do is haul the corpses to the Collectors somehow - and weren't they burning all the corpses?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

The fact that calling on non-Council alien help is never brought up in the second game also implies that the humans somehow have more initiative than everyone else in the galaxy (even though the salarians are shown to be aware of the Reapers, Mordin wrote a goddamn paper on it). From a meta standpoint, I suppose it's because the game wants to force you to rely on TIM, but it's kind of sloppy.

Might I add that also, since we're new on the block, we're more likely to do something about it? Asari etc and them have been on the block for an while, it's like the U.N. yay solving world hunger etc... but in the end they don't do as much they are suppose to because it becomes stagant. Humans have different tactics and completely different way of thinking. Fighters and frigates suddenly become devils to the turians because we packed them with different weaponry and used them in tactics that worked to their advantages instead of staganting with "we needs bigger ships."

Problem is the fact that the council is caught up with the poltics of the galaxy they don't want to or can't see the appoaching reaper threat. Humans on the other hand have not been imerised yet into the poltics and the way of life in the galaxy. That is why we have the initative and they don't. Because we are new, we notice the enviorment has changed an bit. only if it's slightly, we have, while the asari etc just assumed it's been the same as always.

[Bucky_McLachlan]

The Collectors did no such thing, the Vorcha did.

[Nightwriter]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

The Collectors did no such thing, the Vorcha did.

Wat.

[RShara]

IIRC, appearance had very little to do with the genetic diversity Mordin talks about. Humans are diverse because we can be close in almost-super-soldiers, or can evolve biotic abilities. Some of us are dumb as rocks, others are stellarly brilliant.



Asari are almost always biotics. Krogan are soldiers, as are turians. Salarians are scientific, etc etc etc. There are exceptions (i.e. krogan biotic), but they are fairly rare.



Humans are shown as diverse because they have sucha wide range of potential physical and mental abilities. Put a couple dozen people in the room and you'll probably get at least one thinker, one doer, a couple of "others" and so forth. Each one will be quite different then another. Put a couple dozen of any other species in the same room and they will probably have similar abilities.

[enormousmoonboots]

Rocket Weazle wrote...

It was because humans had genetic maluebility rather than diversity.
If it was about diversity Asari would win hands down seeing as how actually reproducing with their own species is considered shameful.
I would love smoking hot Asari husks... Did I just say that?

Actually, asari don't appear to have much diversity. Their kids are basically clones: remember the one with the krogan boyfriend tells you that asari don't take DNA from their partners, they just use it to randomize their own DNA. That's why Morinth can pass for Samara so easily; they're nearly identical, genetically.

What I can't understand is why Harbinger disregards salarians for their lifespan and quarians for their immune system.

HARBINGER, YOU ARE MELTING THEM. LIFE SPAN AND IMMUNITIES STOP MATTERING AT DEATH.

[Nightwriter]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

The fact that calling on non-Council alien help is never brought up in the second game also implies that the humans somehow have more initiative than everyone else in the galaxy (even though the salarians are shown to be aware of the Reapers, Mordin wrote a goddamn paper on it). From a meta standpoint, I suppose it's because the game wants to force you to rely on TIM, but it's kind of sloppy.

Might I add that also, since we're new on the block, we're more likely to do something about it? Asari etc and them have been on the block for an while, it's like the U.N. yay solving world hunger etc... but in the end they don't do as much they are suppose to because it becomes stagant. Humans have different tactics and completely different way of thinking. Fighters and frigates suddenly become devils to the turians because we packed them with different weaponry and used them in tactics that worked to their advantages instead of staganting with "we needs bigger ships."

Problem is the fact that the council is caught up with the poltics of the galaxy they don't want to or can't see the appoaching reaper threat. Humans on the other hand have not been imerised yet into the poltics and the way of life in the galaxy. That is why we have the initative and they don't. Because we are new, we notice the enviorment has changed an bit. only if it's slightly, we have, while the asari etc just assumed it's been the same as always.

Andrew, I'd agree with you if I thought of all the Council races as being universally synonymous with the Council government.

But just like there are lots of humans who don't agree with the Alliance, I'd honestly hoped that in the wide reaches of galactic space there'd be quite a few asari, turians, and salarians outside the Citadel who saw the truth as well and shared humanity's frustration with the Council, who rebelled against their government.

Not all asari are peaceful and calm, not all turians are condescending and dismissive. The Council may be caught up in galactic politics, and the Council may have their opinion, but is every member of the Council races so caught up, so opinionated?

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

What I can't understand is why Harbinger disregards salarians for their lifespan and quarians for their immune system.

HARBINGER, YOU ARE MELTING THEM. LIFE SPAN AND IMMUNITIES STOP MATTERING AT DEATH.

... Dude. This is actually a good question.

I have no idea.

Does your lifespan somehow contribute to how long your organic goo takes to deterioriate or decompose? Thus shortening the lifespan of the Reaper who depends upon that material? Is that stored in your DNA somehow?

I have no idea.

[Collider]

Our lifespans are largely influenced by our genes. Scientists have already altered the genes of other animals and discovered that they can make them live longer that way. Which is rather exciting, although to some it may have unpleasant implications.

[Nightwriter]

That's pretty interesting, Collider. Very stimulating.



So... tell me, how much of a person's genetic code can survive in that goop they suck in? Our DNA?

[Collider]

The whole genetic goop thing struck me as funny. It's really pseduoscience, I can't say what exactly is going on what they turn people into paste. It's really silly but I can accept it, I've seen worse in science fiction.

[Tokion]

Maybe they want to 'purge all' aliens from Omega and harvast the humans after? The station is ran by aliens after all.

[enormousmoonboots]

Life span is a part of genes (telomeres are notable for that), but I can't see how that would matter in building a Reaper. Does it affect the Reaper's life span? Would a quarian Reaper be more susceptible to the sniffles? Dammit, the more I think about it the less sense it makes!



With the Collectors, they've proven themselves to have extensive aptitude for modifying genetic sequences; if they really wanted, they could probably jack up salarian lifespans or quarian immune systems all on their own. It doesn't seem like they should be adverse to harvesting genetically engineered individuals; it's common practice in the Alliance, Ashley herself had genetic fixes for poor eyesight and both her and Kaidan, as marines, were significantly genetically enhanced. Is there a certain level of genetic engineering that makes a species unacceptable? It doesn't seem like 'interference' would be negative, quarian cybernetic enhancements is apparently why they were considered, and tool-use (cybernetics, essentially) is getting around/compensating for evolution in the first place (a giraffe that had an extendo-claw grafted onto its shoulder would have no reason to need a longer neck). And the advantage of genetic diversity is that the species has a wider range of traits to better adapt to its environment (a giraffe with a long neck will be able to access more food than a giraffe with a short neck, thus short-necked giraffes die out, and necks, on average, become longer. The giraffes become more fit for their environment. But if you add a short-necked giraffe with an extendo-claw into the mix, that giraffe's genes will not die out, and short-necked giraffes will remain as long as extendo-claws remain). They're totally at cross-purposes...



UGGGH HUMAN REAPER YOU MAKE NO GODDAMN SENSE

[Collider]

I just take it as something better to accept and assume that it makes sense in the context of the universe, enormous. Otherwise...it feels very silly.

[Nightwriter]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Life span is a part of genes (telomeres are notable for that), but I can't see how that would matter in building a Reaper. Does it affect the Reaper's life span? Would a quarian Reaper be more susceptible to the sniffles? Dammit, the more I think about it the less sense it makes!

Hmm... well, all organic matter deteriorates eventually, doesn't it?

Reapers are synthetic/nonsynthetic, so they are part organic. I often wondered what might happen if their organic material starts to degrade or decompose over time. Might lifespan come into play here? The organic material of races with longer lifespans degrades much slower?

With the Collectors, they've proven themselves to have extensive aptitude for modifying genetic sequences; if they really wanted, they could probably jack up salarian lifespans or quarian immune systems all on their own.

But I thought it was human genetic diversity that made humans such optimal targets for genetic experimentation; other races can't be experimented on and mutated as well.

It doesn't seem like they should be adverse to harvesting genetically engineered individuals; it's common practice in the Alliance, Ashley herself had genetic fixes for poor eyesight and both her and Kaidan, as marines, were significantly genetically enhanced. Is there a certain level of genetic engineering that makes a species unacceptable?

First of all, where does it say that about Ashley's eyesight? Just curious.

And second of all, humans are in the dawn of genetic modification. Perhaps it is different for races who have been using genetic modification for a long, long time? What might the long term effects of that be?

If we keep genetically modifying an undesirable gene out of people, might it get completely bred out of us, narrowing our genes more and more? I admit, I don't know much about this subject, so I'm asking.

It doesn't seem like 'interference' would be negative, quarian cybernetic enhancements is apparently why they were considered, and tool-use (cybernetics, essentially) is getting around/compensating for evolution in the first place (a giraffe that had an extendo-claw grafted onto its shoulder would have no reason to need a longer neck). And the advantage of genetic diversity is that the species has a wider range of traits to better adapt to its environment (a giraffe with a long neck will be able to access more food than a giraffe with a short neck, thus short-necked giraffes die out, and necks, on average, become longer. The giraffes become more fit for their environment. But if you add a short-necked giraffe with an extendo-claw into the mix, that giraffe's genes will not die out, and short-necked giraffes will remain as long as extendo-claws remain). They're totally at cross-purposes...

UGGGH HUMAN REAPER YOU MAKE NO GODDAMN SENSE

You just made my brain explode.

[enormousmoonboots]

 Well, the Harbinger alien smacktalk puts down the other races for any reason other than their supposed diversity, which leads me to believe that the reason cited was the dealbreaker, rather than their diversity. The closest he gets to making a comment their about diversity is when he puts down asari for relying on other races for reproduction (derp).

According to the Codex, humans went crazy with genetic modification when they first got it really figured out. Making pets smarter, splicing characteristics, that kind of thing. Upon contacting other planets, the Alliance realized that this could be bad, and put regulations in place against it. Thing is, though...genetic modification can actually increase genetic diversity. If you add new characteristics to something, it becomes more different, after all.

Undesirable genes--well, if they're undesirable enough--get bred out of populations naturally; evolution is all about becoming most fit to your environment. Like the giraffe example, the gene for short necks among giraffes was removed from the gene pool since they couldn't survive to reproduce. Since humanity has significant amounts of tools to make up for bad genes (glasses for bad eyesight, braces for weak legs, other assisting devices), these negative characteristics remain in the human gene pool. It's kind of odd to realize that compassion effectively stops evolution, but there you go. But bad genes dying off isn't a bad thing at all, as far as diversity goes.

We have no info about alien gene modding, though; I don't know why people assume they would have it more. I'd think they'd come to the same conclusion as the humans did; pretty sure there are galactic laws against extensive modification.

Ashley's gene stuff. Unfortunately, the wiki doesn't have a link, but I know I read the original info on one of the Bioware sites.