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What is it with some people's logic?


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#26
NICKjnp

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Sursion wrote...

From what I heard, they're not touching the game engine. So basically, they'll have 2-3 years of nothing but level design and voice acting (and maybe a little bit of tweaking). And that's definitely not a bad thing. Plus, it's the end of the series, so they can go wild without worrying about the consequences. ME3 is going to be a good game...


And without Tali
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V

#27
Shazzammer2

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Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Image IPB



#28
Fluffeh Kitteh

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SkullandBonesmember wrote...

I seem to remember most people thinking Tali wasn't a romance option and look how that turned out.


Sure we all remembered how it all turned out. It was a blink-and-miss affair wasn't it?

Also in ME2, being a romance option doesn't exactly count for a lot of character development seeing as how it's the same amount of dialogue, just in a more romance-y direction.

#29
Peppard

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V.A. costs are kind of a lumpy thing, since you buy blocks of time from the actor, for doing up to a certain number of roles in that block of time. According to the article below, "atmospheric" voices might do a large number of roles, versus a person hired for a main character, who might do up to 3 characters. It also said "The numbers are staggering: Mass Effect 2 will have 90 actors playing 546 characters, speaking over 31,000 lines".



If they don't intend to increase the budget much, they'll have to trim something, somewhere, but it could be random NPC chatter or "star" npcs like Aria that get cut, while most of the VA budget goes to squad VA. I have no idea what is more likely for BW to do. I do know that if they're going to pay Liz Sroka or Brandon Keener to record some lines for ME3, they may as well give each of them four hours (or whatever the contract's minimum block of time is) worth of stuff to say. That might explain why the Firewalker Shuttle VI sounds a lot like Garrus, though. They may use the "extra" time over the cameo lines for background characters (if the contract allows it),and still have skimpy conversation options.



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#30
VettoRyouzou

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All I gotta say is remember EA now helps foot the budget bill now and no amount of VA work they have to do will top the amount needed for Kotor the mmo.

#31
Jonathan Shepard

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Nostradamoose wrote...

we don,t know... So betting on anything is heavy risks...


But the priiize...

#32
TheLostGenius

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This thread needs to STFU. :P

#33
Zulu_DFA

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SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Do you really think Bioware will reduce practically all the character's roles in ME3 just because Wrex, Tali, Garrus, and everybody else can die?
 


It is confirmed, that Mass Effect trilogy is the story of Commander Shepard, and not of Wrex, Tali & Garrus.

#34
Zulu_DFA

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SkullandBonesmember wrote...

I seem to remember most people thinking Tali wasn't a romance option and look how that turned out.


It turned out, sleeping with all kinds of aliens is more "natural" than same sex romance.

Also, it turned out, that if you don't want to sleep with Tali, she's got noting to say to you aside from that she hates Cerberus and should clean up that engine. What a hell of a character development! And Garrus at least got over his daddy issue. Tali didn't.

#35
--Master of All--

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VettoRyouzou wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

What I meant by throwing around VA is that it wouldn't be cost benificial because at first they'd have to bring back all the other ones in some sort of capacity. It would be most effective if they were given major roles because if they weren't they would have to hire new VA's on top of that and that would not be cost effective.


Ahh then yes I misread and fully agree, I mean yes people will have to accept that losing a character will kill some story but they could easily do it like loyalty mission, Any major missions can be filled by anyone who fit the roll needed.

Example you need an engineer or Tech type to hack a device to find reapers per say who can fill this roll: Tali, Legion, Kasumi, Miranda, Kaiden ((I think he was engineer and biotic can't remember to well)) Basically anyone who has a engineering tree can fill this roll.

Now how do you keep things deep? Loyalty mission idea if said character gone ya you lose a chunk of story but that was your decision to let them die and must live with it were people who let them live get a nice deep side story done viea loyalty style.

That basically how it have to work it mean a little extra VA and programming work but it very possible.




I think you are vastly underestimating the amount of work required to pull this off. VA is part of the cost, but you also have animating, scripting, writing, testing, etc, all of which I would assume increase exponentially with each new variable put into the game. I don't think Bioware will want to invest those types of resources into content that only part of the player base will experience. In short, I'd expect a lot of cameos, but probably not too many returning party members from either game. :(


VettoRyouzou wrote...

It cost allot more money to do a fully Voiced MMO which might I add they are doing.


Apples and oranges. TOR is a different game with a different market and different goals (and most likely a larger budget).

They're also probably banking on the hope that subscription fees will absorb the extra costs of production.

Modifié par --Master of All--, 14 avril 2010 - 02:39 .


#36
Zulu_DFA

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--Master of All-- wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

What I meant by throwing around VA is that it wouldn't be cost benificial because at first they'd have to bring back all the other ones in some sort of capacity. It would be most effective if they were given major roles because if they weren't they would have to hire new VA's on top of that and that would not be cost effective.


Ahh then yes I misread and fully agree, I mean yes people will have to accept that losing a character will kill some story but they could easily do it like loyalty mission, Any major missions can be filled by anyone who fit the roll needed.

Example you need an engineer or Tech type to hack a device to find reapers per say who can fill this roll: Tali, Legion, Kasumi, Miranda, Kaiden ((I think he was engineer and biotic can't remember to well)) Basically anyone who has a engineering tree can fill this roll.

Now how do you keep things deep? Loyalty mission idea if said character gone ya you lose a chunk of story but that was your decision to let them die and must live with it were people who let them live get a nice deep side story done viea loyalty style.

That basically how it have to work it mean a little extra VA and programming work but it very possible.




I think you are vastly underestimating the amount of work required to pull this off. VA is part of the cost, but you also have animating, scripting, writing, testing, etc, all of which I would assume increase exponentially with each new variable put into the game. I don't think Bioware will want to invest those types of resources into content that only part of the player base will experience. In short, I'd expect a lot of cameos, but probably not too many returning party members from either game. :(


Also, creating "optional" content to reward those who saved squadmates in ME2 will take resources and focus from the main story of ME3, which needs to be fun even in the "worst possible ME2 scenario".
 
Also, the newbies will lack the knowledge of Shepard's history with certain characters. Any "flashbacks" and "reminders" will need to be kept to a minimum.

#37
Peppard

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--Master of All-- wrote...
  I don't think Bioware will want to invest those types of resources into content that only part of the player base will experience. In short, I'd expect a lot of cameos, but probably not too many returning party members from either game. :(


On the other had, BW set the default game in ME2 in a way that eliminated all the encounters  with Urd Wrex, Gianni, the lab Asari, Conrad V, Rachni Errand girl, and Shiala.  Now, if what you're saying is true, why wouldn't they set the default game (which players new to the series would use), so that more players see that stuff?  On the one hand, you can say, "oh a new player wouldn't get who these random people are", but really, that goes for Anderson, Liara, Ash/Kaidan too. 

BW doesn't JUST think about creating content that can be seen by the most number of players.They also want to "reward" repeat players and create replay value.  They may still go the cameo route of course, because it seems to me that sometimes they plan a lot of things and just run out of time to do everything.

#38
--Master of All--

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Peppard wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...
  I don't think Bioware will want to invest those types of resources into content that only part of the player base will experience. In short, I'd expect a lot of cameos, but probably not too many returning party members from either game. :(


On the other had, BW set the default game in ME2 in a way that eliminated all the encounters  with Urd Wrex, Gianni, the lab Asari, Conrad V, Rachni Errand girl, and Shiala.  Now, if what you're saying is true, why wouldn't they set the default game (which players new to the series would use), so that more players see that stuff?  On the one hand, you can say, "oh a new player wouldn't get who these random people are", but really, that goes for Anderson, Liara, Ash/Kaidan too. 

BW doesn't JUST think about creating content that can be seen by the most number of players.They also want to "reward" repeat players and create replay value.  They may still go the cameo route of course, because it seems to me that sometimes they plan a lot of things and just run out of time to do everything.


I agree that Bioware has demonstrated that they are willing to place a limited amount of content into the game that not all players will experience, but when it comes to the real 'meat and potatoes' (party members, main quests, LIs, etc.) There tends to be much less variability and few, if any circumstances that would exclude new players from experiencing each of them in full. 

Modifié par --Master of All--, 14 avril 2010 - 02:46 .


#39
SkullandBonesmember

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Bioware's revenue from ME2 was mostly from those who originally played ME1.

#40
Zulu_DFA

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SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Bioware's revenue from ME2 was mostly from those who originally played ME1.


Link?

Never mind though. The fans will buy ME3 even if it is set 2000 years after ME2 and Shepard is the only surviving character. Because the story must be completed. For one, I think ME2 was a total disaster (save for some cool new characters, and the main story ark, which was a bit lame too). But I will absolutely play ME3 ASAP.

#41
Unit-Alpha

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Possibly. It's a disk space issue.

#42
Arijharn

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Other than novelty value, I would assume that the vast majority would play characters in which their entire team survived (or few died). It wasn't as if it was difficult to work out who to send where.



Having said that, romance characters (and Miranda even if you didn't romance her) are probably the most likely to return as well as the ole' fav's Garrus and Tali.

#43
Arijharn

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Unit-Alpha wrote...

Possibly. It's a disk space issue.


Just add a new DVD's worth of content and she'll be right mate.

#44
SkullandBonesmember

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Link?


Just an educated guess in my experience.


Arijharn wrote...

Other than novelty value, I would assume that the vast majority would play characters in which their entire team survived (or few died). It wasn't as if it was difficult to work out who to send where.


And even if on a first playthrough there are deaths, it's pretty easy to accomplish it on their 2nd playthrough not just from trial and error but from info online.

#45
Peppard

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--Master of All-- wrote...

Peppard wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...
  I don't think Bioware will want to invest those types of resources into content that only part of the player base will experience. In short, I'd expect a lot of cameos, but probably not too many returning party members from either game. :(


On the other had, BW set the default game in ME2 in a way that eliminated all the encounters  with Urd Wrex, Gianni, the lab Asari, Conrad V, Rachni Errand girl, and Shiala.  Now, if what you're saying is true, why wouldn't they set the default game (which players new to the series would use), so that more players see that stuff?  On the one hand, you can say, "oh a new player wouldn't get who these random people are", but really, that goes for Anderson, Liara, Ash/Kaidan too. 

BW doesn't JUST think about creating content that can be seen by the most number of players.They also want to "reward" repeat players and create replay value.  They may still go the cameo route of course, because it seems to me that sometimes they plan a lot of things and just run out of time to do everything.


I agree that Bioware has demonstrated that they are willing to place a limited amount of content into the game that not all players will experience, but when it comes to the real 'meat and potatoes' (party members, main quests, LIs, etc.) There tends to be much less variability and few, if any circumstances that would exclude new players from experiencing each of them in full. 


 Your original thought was that BW wouldn't
want to put work into designing content for "the few" as opposed to
stuff everyone could see.    So why wouldn't BW make  the default game one in which most, if not all, of the ME2 squad survives? 

 If anything, I would guess the majority of players kept almost all the team alive, anyway, so content based around previous squad characters presumably would be seen by a majority of returning players, and setting the default game that way would take care of new players. So while the programming might be more complicated for including previous squad characters  (and more expensive), it likely would still be content that a majority of players experience, and for most fans, WANT to experience.   So it might be worth it for BW to invest the resources, despite the increased cost, the same way it was worth it to invest some resources into the return of Conrad Verner type stuff, to increase the feel of a continuing story. 

#46
thatguy212

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I hope that mass effect doesn't focus alot on tali, why would i want to play a game that focuses on a corpse?

#47
Zulu_DFA

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thatguy212 wrote...

I hope that mass effect doesn't focus alot on tali, why would i want to play a game that focuses on a corpse?


Because that's how democracy works these days: the most vocal minority gets their way.

#48
Arijharn

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careful zulu, you're starting to sound like a cynic ;)

#49
SkullandBonesmember

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Because that's how democracy works these days: the most vocal minority gets their way.


I dare you to count only the individual, active members from the Tali thread and still say we're a minority.

#50
VettoRyouzou

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thatguy212 wrote...

I hope that mass effect doesn't focus alot on tali, why would i want to play a game that focuses on a corpse?



Ok I'm going to say this.

Will you people move the **** on and grow the **** up already? So some one like a character you don't big ****ing deal that doesn't mean that character should get more or less treatment then anyone else. Just move on and accept not everyone a generic gray blob who will act the same as everyone else.