Aller au contenu

Photo

What is it with some people's logic?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
147 réponses à ce sujet

#126
Onyx Jaguar

Onyx Jaguar
  • Members
  • 13 003 messages

Nightwriter wrote...

It depresses Nightwriter when people go on about these pesky cost, time, and resource limitations. Depresses her, I tell you. She does not like to hear about reality.

La la la! Na na! I am not listening! Not listening! My game will be limitless! LIMITLESS, I tell you!! Everything I hope for can be achieved! La la la!


It would also be a problem to accomodate 12 Cameos + a new cast of characters just as it would be for Bioware to continue the cast for the sequel while writing in importance in case some people are killed off.  Bioware has a choice to make.  A choice to change or a choice to continue what they have done in the past and possibly end up spending more money on VA.

#127
Nightwriter

Nightwriter
  • Members
  • 9 800 messages

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It depresses Nightwriter when people go on about these pesky cost, time, and resource limitations. Depresses her, I tell you. She does not like to hear about reality.

La la la! Na na! I am not listening! Not listening! My game will be limitless! LIMITLESS, I tell you!! Everything I hope for can be achieved! La la la!


It would also be a problem to accomodate 12 Cameos + a new cast of characters just as it would be for Bioware to continue the cast for the sequel while writing in importance in case some people are killed off.  Bioware has a choice to make.  A choice to change or a choice to continue what they have done in the past and possibly end up spending more money on VA.


More reality!!

But seriously, why finish up a trilogy with new characters? Why wrap up the concluding act of your series with anything but the people who the series has dramatically involved from the beginning and middle?

This is one time spending more money is probably the right thing to do. If Bioware listens to its fanbases they'd know we love the characters we have already and want them to continue.

Plus if Miranda and Mordin aren't in game 3 I will organize a riot.

#128
Andrew_Waltfeld

Andrew_Waltfeld
  • Members
  • 960 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Are you assuming Wrex will be a squadmate?

I like talking about it and I am speculating too.  Heck everyone is, and maybe Bioware still is too.  I am not assuming that I would need to be recruiting 12.  12 was how many that was recruited in ME2, so I am not assuming that 12 will be in ME3 just because they were in ME2. 

Where are you getting the number 4 from?


I am assuming that Bioware will basically follow the same path that they have wiith ME1 and 2.  That is the source that I am going by.  The game has been linear so far.  Will that cease in ME3?


To put forth an quote from another thread, this is my reasoning.

Andrew Waltfeld wrote.....

well not all of them have romanaces.. let's see,  Zaeed,
Morinth/Samara, Mordin, grunt, (wrex if your including him), legion. 7
characters with limited to no LI vaiable rommance.

Romances -
Garrus, Tali, Thane (assuming he's not dead), Liara, jacob, miranda,
Kaiden/Ashley, Kelly (doubt full rommance but hey, who knows) and Kasumi
is an maybe. It depends upon when the ME3 takes place, how soon after
for some of
these rommance options, as Kasumi may have gotten over
her dead lover and have started to move on.

EDIT - I have been
notified I have forgotten jack.

so that is 9-10 possible
rommances, and 5-6 non-LI's.

 I highly bet alot of them are
going to be re-using animations, riggings, etc from ME2/ME1... so yeah
most of the work is already done. Really they just have to create the
new scenes and merely storyboard them so the animators know which
animations they need to pluck out of their kijallion pre-set motions
they have set and probably minorily adjust them.

Highly doable
considering they have all the animation riggings and motions from the
first two games to use and more than likely, these rommances scenes will
be just as short as they were in ME2. This isn't an porno they are
making which is why I believe people think it's impossible. They are
making an elephant out of an horse.

Why you assuming that they
make replacements? He has 16 or so squadmates. If the player chooses to
kill X number of squadmates... then it sucks to be him/her, but she has plenty of squad-mates to choose from.



and also

Nightwriter wrote...

But seriously, why finish up a
trilogy with new characters? Why wrap up the concluding act of your
series with anything but the people who the series has dramatically
involved from the beginning and middle?


This. It makes no sense to have an new squad. It just doesn't. Bioware made it so damn easy for everyone surivive.
Plus bioware said that killing off your squad would mean less content in ME3. Killing them off is pointless if they want to live up to that promise.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 15 avril 2010 - 03:35 .


#129
Kileyan

Kileyan
  • Members
  • 1 923 messages

Nightwriter wrote...

Plus if Miranda and Mordin aren't in game 3 I will organize a riot.


What is odd, is when I went into the game, with only preview clips, I was ready to hate Miranda, and consider Mordin as just some species I didn't find interesting and a throw away character I never used other than for weapons perks or an xp mission.

When I left the game they were favorite characters. So yeh, there better be some Miranda and Mordin in ME3.

#130
Nightwriter

Nightwriter
  • Members
  • 9 800 messages

Kileyan wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Plus if Miranda and Mordin aren't in game 3 I will organize a riot.


What is odd, is when I went into the game, with only preview clips, I was ready to hate Miranda, and consider Mordin as just some species I didn't find interesting and a throw away character I never used other than for weapons perks or an xp mission.

When I left the game they were favorite characters. So yeh, there better be some Miranda and Mordin in ME3.


They're two of my top favorites too. And MIranda? Man, I had some pre-conceived notions about her from the vids.

My dislike was outfitted, geared up, locked and loaded and ready for deployment.

They totally changed my opinion of her.

#131
Silver

Silver
  • Members
  • 1 547 messages

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Wait... Take what you guys assumed I said and reverse it.


I got fully what you meant they have to bring back every VA to cover every scenario of what could happen but what you’re failing to realize is 2 things.

1. A fully voiced MMO would have to do this Exact same thing plus some to support every scenario every character takes.
2. Bioware tends to keep VA on the payroll any way this may be a shocker to you but many of ME VA were in DA:O and many DA:O were in ME2.

Again.. it possibly it won't be easy but bioware likes a challenge.

this.
When I first heard Han'Gerrel speak on board the Rayya, I immediately though "hey, you know that voice... isn't that Teyrn Loghain ?" and guess what: I was right ;)

#132
Andrew_Waltfeld

Andrew_Waltfeld
  • Members
  • 960 messages

Nightwriter wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Plus if Miranda and Mordin aren't in game 3 I will organize a riot.


What is odd, is when I went into the game, with only preview clips, I was ready to hate Miranda, and consider Mordin as just some species I didn't find interesting and a throw away character I never used other than for weapons perks or an xp mission.

When I left the game they were favorite characters. So yeh, there better be some Miranda and Mordin in ME3.


They're two of my top favorites too. And MIranda? Man, I had some pre-conceived notions about her from the vids.

My dislike was outfitted, geared up, locked and loaded and ready for deployment.

They totally changed my opinion of her.


Sadly, my views was totally the oppsite. O_o Went in, what i saw of her, she was ok, not great or good, but ok. Then her attuide in the game, blah she went quickly down my list of favorite characters. Samara, Tali, Garrus, Kasumi skyrocketed to the top. Mordin was funny, but I never found any of his abilities useful the way I played except on jacob's loyality mission.

Jacob, I don't hate him, or love him, he simply exists on my ship to take care of the weaponry.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 15 avril 2010 - 03:48 .


#133
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But seriously, why finish up a
trilogy with new characters? Why wrap up the concluding act of your
series with anything but the people who the series has dramatically
involved from the beginning and middle?


This. It makes no sense to have an new squad. It just doesn't. Bioware made it so damn easy for everyone surivive.
Plus bioware said that killing off your squad would mean less content in ME3. Killing them off is pointless if they want to live up to that promise.

Yeah, maybe they all will not be longterm squadmates either though.  With some of them, Shep could do a mission with them and then they go off to fight the war somewhere else.

Could also have DLC too.$$

#134
Andrew_Waltfeld

Andrew_Waltfeld
  • Members
  • 960 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But seriously, why finish up a
trilogy with new characters? Why wrap up the concluding act of your
series with anything but the people who the series has dramatically
involved from the beginning and middle?


This. It makes no sense to have an new squad. It just doesn't. Bioware made it so damn easy for everyone surivive.
Plus bioware said that killing off your squad would mean less content in ME3. Killing them off is pointless if they want to live up to that promise.

Yeah, maybe they all will not be longterm squadmates either though.  With some of them, Shep could do a mission with them and then they go off to fight the war somewhere else.

Could also have DLC too.$$


I can't deny the possiblity, but I could see it either way, I hope it goes the way I think it will be.

#135
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But seriously, why finish up a
trilogy with new characters? Why wrap up the concluding act of your
series with anything but the people who the series has dramatically
involved from the beginning and middle?


This. It makes no sense to have an new squad. It just doesn't. Bioware made it so damn easy for everyone surivive.
Plus bioware said that killing off your squad would mean less content in ME3. Killing them off is pointless if they want to live up to that promise.

Yeah, maybe they all will not be longterm squadmates either though.  With some of them, Shep could do a mission with them and then they go off to fight the war somewhere else.

Could also have DLC too.$$


I can't deny the possiblity, but I could see it either way, I hope it goes the way I think it will be.

That would be nice.  I am just not one to keep high expectations of such things. 

#136
Tinywolf

Tinywolf
  • Members
  • 66 messages
have to remember too that ME3 wont be about the characters like ME2 was.So its simple, if someone is dead their wont be in that playthough ME3 (considering you would most likily only miss out on a small subplot which would be mostly be dialogue on the Normandy). I doubt that dead teammates would be replaced with other characters considering that ME3 is already going to be overfilling with stuff to do, there would just be a empty character spot.

#137
Andrew_Waltfeld

Andrew_Waltfeld
  • Members
  • 960 messages

Tinywolf wrote...

have to remember too that ME3 wont be about the characters like ME2 was.So its simple, if someone is dead their wont be in that playthough ME3 (considering you would most likily only miss out on a small subplot which would be mostly be dialogue on the Normandy). I doubt that dead teammates would be replaced with other characters considering that ME3 is already going to be overfilling with stuff to do, there would just be a empty character spot.


True enough, I've dealt with everyone's problems in ME2, they should be straight-forward in ME3, ready to go in my opinon, with the exception of Liara, Kaiden/Ashley and Wrex of course (doubt Wrex will be back though). I don't mind recruitment/Loyality missions for them, but squad-mates should be ME1 style this time around, something to do with the main plot etc etc. Loyality mission being the exception.

And god, I really hope the end mission requires more sacfrises and way way way harder to surivive circumstances. It'll be an shame to have easy sucide run. Basically saying - people should get whacked in ME3, seavral Virmire decisions are needed to be made or something.

#138
Nightwriter

Nightwriter
  • Members
  • 9 800 messages

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

And MIranda? Man, I had some pre-conceived notions about her from the vids.

My dislike was outfitted, geared up, locked and loaded and ready for deployment.

They totally changed my opinion of her.


Sadly, my views was totally the oppsite. O_o Went in, what i saw of her, she was ok, not great or good, but ok. Then her attuide in the game, blah she went quickly down my list of favorite characters. Samara, Tali, Garrus, Kasumi skyrocketed to the top. Mordin was funny, but I never found any of his abilities useful the way I played except on jacob's loyality mission.

Jacob, I don't hate him, or love him, he simply exists on my ship to take care of the weaponry.


I'm sorry to hear that. I assume you're talking about the attitude she gives you on Lazarus Station?

Miranda's character seems to change during the shuttle ride to the Normandy. Once you start talking to her in her quarters she's abruptly polite and quite nice. Jacob had the opposite transformation.

Miranda can be harsh, but when she was, I wanted to know why, and it drew me in. I wanted to figure her out. So they did a good job with that for me. Once I had figured it out I understood and I ended up really liking her for her imperfections.

The idea of a supposedly "perfect" character having such obvious imperfections is appealing to me.

#139
Tinywolf

Tinywolf
  • Members
  • 66 messages

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

True enough, I've dealt with everyone's problems in ME2, they should be straight-forward in ME3, ready to go in my opinon, with the exception of Liara, Kaiden/Ashley and Wrex of course (doubt Wrex will be back though). I don't mind recruitment/Loyality missions for them, but squad-mates should be ME1 style this time around, something to do with the main plot etc etc. Loyality mission being the exception.

And god, I really hope the end mission requires more sacfrises and way way way harder to surivive circumstances. It'll be an shame to have easy sucide run. Basically saying - people should get whacked in ME3, seavral Virmire decisions are needed to be made or something.


I dont kow if Wrex would come back, wouldnt make alot of sense considering what e isdoing (dont get me wrong I like the guy just would prefer him to do more "important: work then following shepard around all day).

Liara and Kaiden/Ashey coming back maybe slightly more tricky to pin, and I suspect that cheating on them (if that was done) might play a role in that. 

And yes the end game must have many many hard choices :devil:

#140
--Master of All--

--Master of All--
  • Members
  • 1 344 messages

Peppard wrote...

There's a vast difference between the following choices for how to handle the fate of a particular character:
(A)  make the character an integral part of the main story arc,  
(B)  a brief cameo NPC with little interaction,    
© a  sidekick squad mate with a bunch of quippy, but essentially irrelevant  remarks  

Choice A would require some creation of a canon story, that ignores players choices, so that's out.
Choice B  is what BW's done before, but has received negative fan feedback for choosing
Choice C is something new, that, relies on the modular design of ME2 to pull off


Is option C really preferrable? You'd rather have a bunch of returning party members with nothing substantial
to contribute to the storyline than a squad with a mix of a few returning characters (Liara, Ashley/Kaiden) along
with some new ones? People were complaining about the fact that most of the ME1 squad wasn't returning
for ME2, and now that they've had some time with the game, they've become so attached to the new squad
members that the cycle is repeating again. Personally, I think a change of cast can be a good thing.

 

Peppard wrote...

They aren't cutting anything from those players--they are potentially offering them "replay value."  Others might also see importing a save with only a few survivors as a challenge, a player super-insanity run if you will.
 

  
I think most gamers don't want to replay a game to get the full experience. Now, I am making a bit of an assumption here, but I would be willing to bet that most ME2 players have not played through the main game more than once, and don't plan on doing so.

Peppard wrote...
I think you're making assumptions  just to make it sound harder, and downplay the value of having returning characters, just because there are a few players who may not see a few of those characters in  imports to ME3.   While having "everyone survive" may not be the most common result,  I bet the average player is much closer to having several team mates survive than the blood bath scenario.   I keep seeing posts that it is "too easy" to save people in fact.    I have not seen many posts that it is "too hard" to save most of the squad.


You're right, I am making a few convenient assumptions for my argument, so let me make a few more while I'm at it ;) On the whole, people who post online are not a representative sample of the player community, imo. If I had to paint a picture of the 'average' ME2 player, it would be someone who did maybe three or four loyalty missions and then headed for Omega-4, and ended up losing maybe 4 or 5 people out of their team of 11. As to who lived and who died, well, that could be anybody depending on the player. So if I'm Bioware and I'm trying to ascertain who were the 'most likely' characters to survive ME2 to put in ME3, who do I pick? Based on ME2, I'd have to say Bioware's choice will probably be to pick none of them. Notice there wasn't a single case in ME2 where a full squad member could be unavailable based on your choices in ME1.

Peppard wrote...
  BW could design a game that works well based around a minimum squad of 6 characters  (since 6 was the magic number in ME1) covering   3 basic classes (tech/combat/biotic).  They start everyone off with  at least one character in each of the 3 classes (Liara--biotic),   Virmire Survivor (now a combat person), and a third character for Tech, who could be new.     That gives them a fourth character that can be anything they want, probably a hybrid type.    The two new characters, plus the 2 old ME1 can be used for anything central story related (the way Jacob and Miranda work in ME2).  


I agree with your choice for the initial three party members. The only question that remains for me is: if returning party members from ME2 wont have any significant impact on the story (as you suggested), then why do you want them in your squad? I would take a completely new squad that is well-integrated into the storyline any day over a ship full of Zaeeds.

Modifié par --Master of All--, 16 avril 2010 - 10:27 .


#141
SkullandBonesmember

SkullandBonesmember
  • Members
  • 1 009 messages
BUMP.



Anybody else care to weigh in?

#142
BellatrixLugosi

BellatrixLugosi
  • Members
  • 671 messages
Well I dunno your original post kinda confusing, because neither logic really makes sense

Ok um

1. (Directed toward Bioware)Now lets just say this, what was the point of the possibility of your squadmates dying in this game if the fanbase demands that characters return

2. (Question to you)With the possibility of a playthrough where most of your characters except 2 die for an example, are you saying they shouldn't make new characters to fill the void?

3. General question, whats the problem with just having a new one anyway, Zaeed is going to do his own thing, Samara has her own damn job, neither would morinth stick btw, legion might go back to the geth, Thane's gonna die........etc etc, they are not exactly written in stone that they should stay with you. Gonna fill some spaces

4. People not wanting new squad members just seem scared of change.

Modifié par BellatrixLugosi, 04 mai 2010 - 05:18 .


#143
SkullandBonesmember

SkullandBonesmember
  • Members
  • 1 009 messages

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

2. (Question to you)With the possibility of a playthrough where most of your characters except 2 die for an example, are you saying they shouldn't make new characters to fill the void?

3. General question, whats the problem with just having a new one anyway, Zaeed is going to do his own thing, Samara has her own damn job, neither would morinth stick btw, legion might go back to the geth, Thane's gonna die........etc etc, they are not exactly written in stone that they should stay with you. Gonna fill some spaces

4. People not wanting new squad members just seem scared of change.


I'm not afraid of change. Neither is anybody else I know that likes Mass Effect.

I made sure everybody survived, and no, I don't expect the entire surviving crew from both games to be back. There's nothing wrong with 2 or 3 new squad members, but a complete overhaul would be wrong.

Overall, Garrus, Tali, and Grunt are the most popular ME1 characters. Not because of a vocal minority, but truly because they're the most popular. Every character has fans, but like I said, OVERALL. 2 out of those 3 are recruitable in ME2 and both can die. Why the hell let them become part of your crew, become even more attached to them, go out of your way to earn their loyalty so they'll survive, only to limit them for a cameo in ME3? Palidine worded it perfectly-

Palidine_0225 wrote...

Put simply I buy Bioware games for the story not some ground breaking gameplay. I buy Valve, id Software, and Epic if I want to see some new earth-shattering combat in a game.


Bioware knows their longtime, established fanbase buys their products for the stories they tell and memorable characters. So would a little effort put into the writing/plot of ME3 to include the most popular characters overall in a big role really hurt?

#144
HighMoon

HighMoon
  • Members
  • 1 703 messages

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Overall, Garrus, Tali, and Grunt are the most popular ME1 characters. Not because of a vocal minority, but truly because they're the most popular.


Grunt wasn't in ME1. Also, it could be argued whether they were the most popular characters in ME1. Especially Wrex. What proof do you have of this? Okay, Tali has two 2000+ paged threads and all, so that's a given... but both Ashley, Liara and Kaidan also have very large threads, I'll accept Garrus because he re-appeared as a squadmember in ME2 showing he must have been quite popular, but let's not forget Wrex doesn't even have a support thread... or at least not one that is very active at present. Miranda Lawson in ME2 is likely one of the more popular characters in the series as well considering her thread immensity... Judging by this I'd say Tali, Garrus, Miranda and perhaps Kaidan/Liara/Ashley are the most popular.

#145
Massadonious1

Massadonious1
  • Members
  • 2 792 messages
I wouldn't like it personally, but we shouldn't discount it as an option. What's the point in the choice if they're just going to kotow to fanservice and retcon the entire suicide mission?



I find it funny that you, of all people would have a problem with this. The "story" is better served with a little continuity.

#146
SkullandBonesmember

SkullandBonesmember
  • Members
  • 1 009 messages

Golden-Rose wrote...

Grunt wasn't in ME1. Also, it could be argued whether they were the most popular characters in ME1. Especially Wrex. What proof do you have of this? Okay, Tali has two 2000+ paged threads and all, so that's a given... but both Ashley, Liara and Kaidan also have very large threads, I'll accept Garrus because he re-appeared as a squadmember in ME2 showing he must have been quite popular, but let's not forget Wrex doesn't even have a support thread... or at least not one that is very active at present. Miranda Lawson in ME2 is likely one of the more popular characters in the series as well considering her thread immensity... Judging by this I'd say Tali, Garrus, Miranda and perhaps Kaidan/Liara/Ashley are the most popular.


Meant Wrex. At least he was the obvious favorite over at the original boards.

Massadonious1 wrote...

I wouldn't like it personally, but we shouldn't discount it as an option. What's the point in the choice if they're just going to kotow to fanservice and retcon the entire suicide mission?

I find it funny that you, of all people would have a problem with this. The "story" is better served with a little continuity.


You wouldn't like it? Well, would you like if whoever you left behind on Virmire showed up in another player's game who save him/her?

I find it funny you think there's only one continuity. There would be no retcon for me since everybody survived.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Bioware knows their longtime, established fanbase buys their products for the stories they tell and memorable characters. So would a little effort put into the writing/plot of ME3 to include the most popular characters overall in a big role really hurt?



#147
Massadonious1

Massadonious1
  • Members
  • 2 792 messages
Am I typing in a different language? Because you seem to have a problem understanding me tonight.

I have no problem with people having their own continuity. In fact, I hope it works out to the point that you get (as a squadmate) everyone you saved (minus a few lore exceptions to fit in Liara/Virmire survivor and maybe Wrex), and everyone you didn't is replaced by a placeholder. But I'm not completely blinded by my own fandom that I would feel the need to have someone like Garrus or Grunt be stock in games that let them die for whatever reason.

You saved all of them? Great. They're still alive. They just wont be travelling with you. That's as fluid as it can get without completely runing others storylines.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 04 mai 2010 - 10:01 .


#148
Sharn01

Sharn01
  • Members
  • 1 881 messages
Maybe all the squadmates and Wrex regardless of character choice will be in ME3 using the same immortal magic that allowed Miranda to be carried off by the swarms and reform after you get through the door.