122 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamer Xtreme]

Azint wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Azint wrote...

There are also games where people have no LI, what sort of leverage do you propose they use instead?

To put it simply, they are screwed. Kill Joker or something, much less impact but the vast majority of people do have a LI or two, or even three.

Joker pilots the ship, he's a crewmate, and many fans like him enough to consider a friend in-game. And how would such an event set itself up anyways? It seems oddly specific and gratuitous to just kill a character like that.

I dunno, the Normandy is shot and goes down, Joker stays with the ship and to protect the evacuees.

Give the writers some credit.

[PTPR]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Got rid of the pyramid.

And the death of your LI would make you hate the reapers even more.

Yes, but what if I don't have an LI? And there are many better ways to make the point that the Reapers are bad.
(Vigil made me sad, I hated Cerberus because of Kakaou(sp?), and I dispised slavers after meeting the kidnapped girl in ME1.)

Modifié par PTPR, 14 avril 2010 - 01:05 .

[DOYOURLABS]

I think something like "choose between saving a planet or your LI" would be better than simply, "I killed your LI, now you get mad and kill all of us"

[shnizzler93]

Found this on 4chan

[Azint]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Azint wrote...

There are also games where people have no LI, what sort of leverage do you propose they use instead?

You should try Heavy Rain. One of the best LIs of any game I've ever played. So much realism.

Even Yahtzee thought it was good, that counts for something. Would look it up, but I don't have a PS3.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The whole thing is terribly overdone as a cheap emotional ploy by lazy writers. Its actualy become a cliche in the comic industry.

See Women in Refrigerators.

If BioWare spent the time setting up a well rounded cast of characters each of whom we made an emotional connection with even without sex, that would be better, they didn't. Characters are popular because they sing or because they say funny lines. We need a reason to hate the reapers, death brings strong emotions and it is the only thing everyone can truly relate to.

[binaryemperor]

yet another "_______ should die" thread.

Hey Shepard! What happens if you lose the fight with the reapers?

EVERYTHING DIES


Oh, Ok.

Modifié par binaryemperor, 14 avril 2010 - 01:06 .

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Tis cliched because it works.

No it doesn't.

It only works if there was actually a developed relationship. In ME2 it was all rushed romances.  During my first playthrough, my Shepard romanced Tali, and she died in the suicide mission because the squad leader in the first stage wasn't loyal. And all I could think of at that moment was "Whoops" at incorrectly choosing Miranda instead of Jacob as the squad leader.

Then better luck next time.

You just don't get it do you... the whole idea of the LI dying with an emotional impact is only supposed to have an impact if the relationship were actually substantial in nature. Given how the 90% of a romance was essentially geared towards secks, I don't see how a player is supposed to feel any sort of emotional impact, unless he was already attached to the character to begin with, in which case it wouldn't make a difference if the character were ever romanced in the first place.

Everything you posted hinges on an assumption of character development, an assumption that nobody can confirm for certain.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 14 avril 2010 - 01:08 .

[Gamer Xtreme]

shnizzler93 wrote...


Found this on 4chan

If you want to hate on me, use words.

[Gamer Xtreme]

binaryemperor wrote...

yet another "_______ should die" thread.

Hey Shepard! What happens if you lose the fight with the reapers?

EVERYTHING DIES


Oh, Ok.

I'm even going to bother with an explanation.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Tis cliched because it works.

No it doesn't.

It only works if there was actually a developed relationship. In ME2 it was all rushed romances.  During my first playthrough, my Shepard romanced Tali, and she died in the suicide mission because the squad leader in the first stage wasn't loyal. And all I could think of at that moment was "Whoops" at incorrectly choosing Miranda instead of Jacob as the squad leader.

Then better luck next time.

You just don't get it do you... the whole idea of the LI dying with an emotional impact is only supposed to have an impact if the relationship were actually substantial in nature. Given how the 90% of a romance was essentially geared towards secks, I don't see how a player is supposed to feel any sort of emotional impact, unless he was already attached to the character to begin with, in which case it wouldn't make a difference if the character were ever romanced in the first place.

Hopefully you at least care for you LI like a fairly good movie character or something, honestly tell me if you don't think many people would genuinly cry if Tali died (doesn't have to be you. but there are many strange people out there)

[JamieCOTC]

I get what the OP is saying. Mordin's last dialogue block is of him getting in touch w/ favorite nephew to give him perspective. If Shepard has no LI in ME2 s/he is seen looking at the photo, possibly doing the same thing, gaining perspective, possibly saying goodbye, etc. I also agree that ME3 needs to really sell the emotion, but that doesn't necessarily mean the LI has to die. If the writers are smart and the voice actors can sell it, then the deaths of trillions can matter. Killing the LI is just the easiest way to evoke emotion, but not necessarily the best way.



Spock: "I've noticed that about your people, doctor".

"You find it easier to understand the death of one... than the death of a million".

"You speak of the objective hardness of the Vulcan heart".

"Yet how little room there seems to be in yours".



Dr. McCoy: "Suffer the death of thy neighbor, aye Spock"?

"Now, you wouldn't wish that on us..... would you"?



Spock: "It might have rendered your history a bit less bloody."

-----------------

From:

Star Trek, original series. (The Immunity Syndrome)

[Gamer Xtreme]

Not even the greatest artist could evoke the emotions of the death of millions. Mass Effect is a Sci-Fi game with some good ideas and fairly good writing.

[PTPR]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I get what the OP is saying. Mordin's last dialogue block is of him getting in touch w/ favorite nephew to give him perspective. If Shepard has no LI in ME2 s/he is seen looking at the photo, possibly doing the same thing, gaining perspective, possibly saying goodbye, etc. I also agree that ME3 needs to really sell the emotion, but that doesn't necessarily mean the LI has to die. If the writers are smart and the voice actors can sell it, then the deaths of trillions can matter. Killing the LI is just the easiest way to evoke emotion, but not necessarily the best way.

Spock: "I've noticed that about your people, doctor".
"You find it easier to understand the death of one... than the death of a million".
"You speak of the objective hardness of the Vulcan heart".
"Yet how little room there seems to be in yours".

Dr. McCoy: "Suffer the death of thy neighbor, aye Spock"?
"Now, you wouldn't wish that on us..... would you"?

Spock: "It might have rendered your history a bit less bloody."
-----------------
From:
Star Trek, original series. (The Immunity Syndrome)

Bolded text and Star Trek!

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Hopefully you at least care for you LI like a fairly good movie character or something, honestly tell me if you don't think many people would genuinly cry if Tali died (doesn't have to be you. but there are many strange people out there)

Those are just the weirdos who are a bit way too obsessed.

Again I'll stress this, romance in ME2 didn't really make me care more for the character, precisely because it's just a bit of different dialogue here and there. COnsider this. if your LI died in the suicide mission, there's no extra stuff. Shepard doesn't stand mourningly at the cargo bay looking at the coffin, or anything like that. It's quite blatant that the romancing was just a prelude to getting the LI into your quarters, after which the LI just fades into obscurity, superceded by the suicide mission.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Hopefully you at least care for you LI like a fairly good movie character or something, honestly tell me if you don't think many people would genuinly cry if Tali died (doesn't have to be you. but there are many strange people out there)

Those are just the weirdos who are a bit way too obsessed.

Again I'll stress this, romance in ME2 didn't really make me care more for the character, precisely because it's just a bit of different dialogue here and there. COnsider this. if your LI died in the suicide mission, there's no extra stuff. Shepard doesn't stand mourningly at the cargo bay looking at the coffin, or anything like that. It's quite blatant that the romancing was just a prelude to getting the LI into your quarters, after which the LI just fades into obscurity, superceded by the suicide mission.

First, off, you must understand the limitations of the fact it is just a game. Second, if they did this then I would hope for better writing.

[Archereon]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Put it this way, would you be more angry at Hitler for genocide, or a man that killed you wife?

Oh dear god. Just stop now.

Damn, I just realised...

Replace Hitler with Stalin or someone.

That's the kind of hard choice that was missing in ME2.  A choice between selfish personal emotion and selfless rational thought.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Archereon wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Put it this way, would you be more angry at Hitler for genocide, or a man that killed you wife?

Oh dear god. Just stop now.

Damn, I just realised...

Replace Hitler with Stalin or someone.

That's the kind of hard choice that was missing in ME2.  A choice between selfish personal emotion and selfless rational thought.

Hmmm, that idea is probably better than this.

Choose between LI and everyone else (or a lot of people)

[VettoRyouzou]

I think.. it should be allot like Mass effect your choice.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

selfish personal emotion and selfless rational thought...

Well Garrus's loyalty mission came sort of close. Personal revenge desire vs level-headed course of action.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 14 avril 2010 - 01:24 .

[Gamer Xtreme]

Well, I know when a idea is genuinly better than mine, and it ties into moral choice....



Damn.



Kinda like fable 2 but hopefully not ****.

[binaryemperor]

It's just I have been seeing a growing list of things that NEED to die or the player will assumed to be bored.



Children

The elderly

Family

the character's love interest

the space hampster

Joker

etc...



It's these Tropes in fiction that are just so overdone that not only are people not surprised when it happens, they expect it to happen.

[PTPR]

binaryemperor wrote...

It's just I have been seeing a growing list of things that NEED to die or the player will assumed to be bored.

Children
The elderly
Family
the character's love interest
the space hampster
Joker
etc...

It's these Tropes in fiction that are just so overdone that not only are people not surprised when it happens, they expect it to happen.

Don't forget the Biotic God for squadmate.

[AntiChri5]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Well, I know when a idea is genuinly better than mine, and it ties into moral choice....

Damn.

Kinda like fable 2 but hopefully not ****.

I can certainly agree with this!

So the big super magic thing can resurrect everyone who died because of him (10000's of people) but not my family (who were killed by him) OR just my family (3 people and 1 dog) but no-one else.

Who desinged this thing? 

[Inquisitor Recon]

This game only NEEDS one thing. Which is a captain's hat for Jacob.