74 réponses à ce sujet

[Garuda One]

BomimoDK wrote...

Garuda One wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

they just shouldn't franchisify it for the sake of bucks.... star was was a 6 episode saga... what's that cartoon series doing in there? making cheap bucks.

Bioware, stay your course. don't sell out. i guess was the point?

Pretty much what my point was. BioWare make great stories but once they jump on the MMO banwagon I hope they keep to how they are now or even before a little bit.

i don't think their MMO is gonna be any problem at all. i don't see much wrong with this company at all. i like what they're doing so far.

More worried about the future then anything. I dont want them turning into another Blizzard.

[Khayness]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Make sure we don't create something that breaks box office records and makes millions upon millions of dollars in just the release weekend? Make sure we don't make something that's talked about everywhere? Make sure people don't come out of experiencing our product with wonderment and awe, to the point of feeling disappointed that the real world can't measure up? Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

No. Make sure you don't put something like Ewoks in ME3.
- Kinetic barriers on 15%! Joker! Collision course and ramming speed! We aren't going down without dragging as many of them with us to Hell! Target their flagship!
- Commander we are picking up incoming ships on our grid!
*The Volus fleet appears with volus shaped starships with main cannons coming out of their arse and obliterate everything*
- Hooray, thank God for the comic relief Deus Ex machina, we are victoriuos!

[spacehamsterZH]

GothamLord wrote...
Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

Critical success leads to commercial success. New fans and players are buying the original Mass Effect game and coming into the universe on word of mouth. Most games have their six or so months of greatest and are then tossed aside for the next "cool" thing. Not alot of games can claim to still be selling copies at over two plus years old.

I wouldn't necessarily say that critical success always leads to commercial success, but you make a very strong point about longevity. Especially if you're trying to build a franchise. If you look at any long-lasting movie or game franchise, it usually at least started out with substance. Star Wars is what it is because of the original trilogy, the sequels may have been commercially successful, but they mostly piggybacked on the established appeal of the Star Wars label. I seriously doubt a movie as boring and convoluted as Episode 1 would have been anywhere near as profitable otherwise.

[Terror_K]

vhatever wrote...

Can anyone name me a bioware sequel that wasn't better than the original?

To be honest, the only sequel they've made of one of their own games besides ME2 is Baldur's Gate 2 (since both KotOR2 and NWN2 were done by Obsidian).

And, my answer is Mass Effect 2. The original game was far better.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Terror_K wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Can anyone name me a bioware sequel that wasn't better than the original?

To be honest, the only sequel they've made of one of their own games besides ME2 is Baldur's Gate 2 (since both KotOR2 and NWN2 were done by Obsidian).

And, my answer is Mass Effect 2. The original game was far better.

Your opinion. I like ME2 more.

[GothamLord]

spacehamsterZH wrote...


I wouldn't necessarily say that critical success always leads to commercial success, but you make a very strong point about longevity. Especially if you're trying to build a franchise. If you look at any long-lasting movie or game franchise, it usually at least started out with substance. Star Wars is what it is because of the original trilogy, the sequels may have been commercially successful, but they mostly piggybacked on the established appeal of the Star Wars label. I seriously doubt a movie as boring and convoluted as Episode 1 would have been anywhere near as profitable otherwise.

The way I'd look at it.  I'd rather just break even with a movie on the first go around and by word of mouth it be established as an epic movie that flew under the radar. Now DVD sales go through the roof and the fanbase slowly grows in size daily as people talk.   Now when the next movie comes out I have a wave of loyal people that turn it into a blockbuster and a marketable franchise.  

Star Wars as you said piggybacked on a brand name.  It was a commercial success because it had a big fat Star Wars label on it. The fanboys flocked in droves,  Phantom Menace is #11 top grossing film of all time because everyone went wild about the idea of a new Star Wars, not because people went back to watch it again and again.
Its also ranked #12 in the top 25 list of Worst Sequels ever made, and a good number of Razzie awards for those that consider those to mean anything. So yeah its a commerical success but as far as critical success its trash.

As was the point of the OP, I'd rather BioWare stick to their guns on the story being the most important aspect and the dollar sign not being the deciding factor. Stanley's comments however rub me the wrong way. If the post was intended as a joke it failed hard, and makes me worry about the future of the company.

[Garuda One]

GothamLord wrote...



As was the point of the OP, I'd rather BioWare stick to their guns on the story being the most important aspect and the dollar sign not being the deciding factor. Stanley's comments however rub me the wrong way. If the post was intended as a joke it failed hard, and makes me worry about the future of the company.

Couldn't agree more but yeah, I can't read what Stanley is trying to imply and if he was for real I fear the worse.

[spacehamsterZH]

I think Stanley's just saying that he respects Lucasfilm for being an industry powerhouse, and it would be unbelievably arrogant for Bioware to walk around with their nose in the air saying they're better than Lucas. I happen to think they are, and I also don't see any indication in ME2 that they're turning into Lucasfilm anytime soon, but I'm also glad they themselves don't go around bragging about how much more artistic integrity than Lucas they have.

[GothamLord]

If the first statement hadnt been about making millions of dollars on opening weekend I dont think I'd have found it as offensive. Because at this point it just seems to equal out to saying. Why wouldnt we want to be like Star Wars?... Being able to milk a franchise name for as much money as possible as quickly as possible until people start to talk and realize the product is $#!+

[Garuda One]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I think Stanley's just saying that he respects Lucasfilm for being an industry powerhouse, and it would be unbelievably arrogant for Bioware to walk around with their nose in the air saying they're better than Lucas. I happen to think they are, and I also don't see any indication in ME2 that they're turning into Lucasfilm anytime soon, but I'm also glad they themselves don't go around bragging about how much more artistic integrity than Lucas they have.

If thats what he ment to say, I am not trying to say or think that they are sticking there noses in Lucas saying there better but if as a fan, myself. Consider BioWares games ands story to be the video game equvalent of Lucas and me as a fan worry for the future I think they should be happy that fans consider BioWare games with such high esteem.

[spacehamsterZH]

I'm guessing he didn't run the post by his lawyers first, guys. You're overanalyzing. I'm not disagreeing with the OP, really, but it does seem like some people here just resent anything and everything Bioware does that appeals to anyone that got into their games after Baldur's Gate.

[Vena_86]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Make sure we don't create something that breaks box office records and makes millions upon millions of dollars in just the release weekend? Make sure we don't make something that's talked about everywhere? Make sure people don't come out of experiencing our product with wonderment and awe, to the point of feeling disappointed that the real world can't measure up? Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

In short: "money rules the world"

only that it doesnt...
The value of real meaningfull art is not as obvious as commercial success but so much more rewarding on a higher level than capitalist, materialist needs.

The Dark Knight is both critically and commercially successfull. It is not impossible and a worthy goal in my books.

[spacehamsterZH]

Vena_86 wrote...
The value of real meaningfull art is not as obvious as commercial success but so much more rewarding on a higher level than capitalist, materialist needs.

You can't make videogames at the level of ME without a lot of financial resources, though, and game developers like to eat too. It's an eternal conundrum. If you only want to play games by developers who are 100% uncompromising in their vision, you need to go download some freeware stuff. Bioware has to make money off their games. That doesn't mean it can or should be the only concern, and like I said, most successful franchises have a heart and soul somewhere that goes beyond focus testing and commercial appeal, but it's still a factor.

[Ryzaki]

Hey don't be knocking freeware games! Everlong is one of my favorite games and its freeware.

[Reiisha]

Garuda One wrote...

Im hesitant on posting this on BioWares forums let alone the forums for the new MMO there making so Ill see what people think here first.

BioWare, check these videos out first for pure enjoyment and secondly to make sure this doesn't happen to you.

Red Letter Media

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review

Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

I think he makes really good points that anyone anywere should take as simply guidelines. Also, BioWare as a comany now and what they create now is perfectly fine. Im more worried of the future then anything because I feel they are going to make even more money but at that point will be blinded by the sheer amounts of money girls jumping up and down asking for BioWare staff to sign there chest that they may slowly forget why people loved there games. 

-Editing it to fix hyperlinks-

/thread

[spacehamsterZH]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hey don't be knocking freeware games! Everlong is one of my favorite games and its freeware.

I'm not knocking freeware games at all and I have nothing but respect for people who make them. I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. The production value and polish of a Bioware game comes at a cost. Martin Sheen probably doesn't do pro bono.

[Kandid001]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Make sure we don't create something that breaks box office records and makes millions upon millions of dollars in just the release weekend? Make sure we don't make something that's talked about everywhere? Make sure people don't come out of experiencing our product with wonderment and awe, to the point of feeling disappointed that the real world can't measure up? Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

Troll harder.

[BomimoDK]

Garuda One wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

Garuda One wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

they just shouldn't franchisify it for the sake of bucks.... star was was a 6 episode saga... what's that cartoon series doing in there? making cheap bucks.

Bioware, stay your course. don't sell out. i guess was the point?

Pretty much what my point was. BioWare make great stories but once they jump on the MMO banwagon I hope they keep to how they are now or even before a little bit.

i don't think their MMO is gonna be any problem at all. i don't see much wrong with this company at all. i like what they're doing so far.

More worried about the future then anything. I dont want them turning into another Blizzard.

i share your fear... but then not really. bioware has integrity. and Blizzard aint bad... they just evolved. they're still a proper developer. their games just place an emphasis on progression and multiplayer experience rather than deep story and deep combat. i love both, but i'd take biowares Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age any day over Blizzards Diablo.... they've got like 500 clones a year anyway.

[Ryzaki]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hey don't be knocking freeware games! Everlong is one of my favorite games and its freeware.

I'm not knocking freeware games at all and I have nothing but respect for people who make them. I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. The production value and polish of a Bioware game comes at a cost. Martin Sheen probably doesn't do pro bono.

Frankly I could do without the famous VAs. <_< Well known doesn't automatically mean the best. Besides even Sheen had to start somewhere.

Oh well. AS long as they're voice isn't grating I'd live with it.

And yeah the prodcution levels and polish do come at a cost. Gotta feed yourself.

[spacehamsterZH]

Ryzaki wrote...
Frankly I could do without the famous VAs. <_< Well known doesn't automatically mean the best. Besides even Sheen had to start somewhere.

Agreed, but non-celebrity VAs aren't free either if you want people that are any good.

That said, I think most of the famous ones in ME2 did a really, really good job. Especially Sheen and Strahovski. Just sayin'.

[Ryzaki]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Frankly I could do without the famous VAs. <_< Well known doesn't automatically mean the best. Besides even Sheen had to start somewhere.

Agreed, but non-celebrity VAs aren't free either if you want people that are any good.

That said, I think most of the famous ones in ME2 did a really, really good job. Especially Sheen and Strahovski. Just sayin'.

True but non-celebrity means cheaper which means more money to go into other things. And yeah they did fine doesn't mean someone who isn't famous couldn't have done just as well if not better.

[Drakron]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Make sure we don't create something that breaks box office records and makes millions upon millions of dollars in just the release weekend? Make sure we don't make something that's talked about everywhere? Make sure people don't come out of experiencing our product with wonderment and awe, to the point of feeling disappointed that the real world can't measure up? Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

Look I watched all the prequel movies, I sit there and watched the trainwrech and nodded as I was a Star Wars fan and then PROCEDDED TO FORGET ABOUT THEIR EXISTENCE.

Also you really want to play this game? Two words ...

Twillight Saga

[Ryzaki]

Drakron wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Make sure we don't create something that breaks box office records and makes millions upon millions of dollars in just the release weekend? Make sure we don't make something that's talked about everywhere? Make sure people don't come out of experiencing our product with wonderment and awe, to the point of feeling disappointed that the real world can't measure up? Make sure that our products are only critically successful rather than commercially successful?

Look I watched all the prequel movies, I sit there and watched the trainwrech and nodded as I was a Star Wars fan and then PROCEDDED TO FORGET ABOUT THEIR EXISTENCE.

Also you really want to play this game? Two words ...

Twillight Saga

Wait Twilight was good at a point? 

Since when? 

[spacehamsterZH]

Ryzaki wrote...

True but non-celebrity means cheaper which means more money to go into other things. And yeah they did fine doesn't mean someone who isn't famous couldn't have done just as well if not better.

Eh. We can go back and forth with a zillion what if scenarios now, but the bottom line is, doing RPGs with full voice acting costs money, so they have to sell. The artistic vision in games at this level of production value will always be compromised. The question is to what extent, and whether the game losse its soul as a result. If you look at the amount of care and love that goes into the dialogue writing and the in-jokes that are only funny to someone who understands and loves the Mass Effect universe (elcor playing Shakespeare, the hanar spectre/Dirty Harry parody, etc.), it's very clear to me that the people who create this stuff are in love with it. I get none of that from the Star Wars prequels. That's the big difference.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Hey guys, anybody want a pizza roll?