762 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Sharptooth wrote...

it would make the entire experience of No One Left Behind shallow if everyone went overboard.

The entire experience of the "suicide mission" was shallow due to No One Left Behind achievement.

Sharptooth wrote...
Shiala
Kal'Reegar

can both die, so the may return only as cameos.

Sharptooth wrote...
Besides, Garrus is loyal anyway, doesn't matter if you kill Sidonis or let him live,
 

Unless Sidonis is at large, if Garrus's mission wasn't accomplished.

Sharptooth wrote...
your logic is flawed.

Logic can neither be somebody's nor flawed.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sharptooth wrote...

it would make the entire experience of No One Left Behind shallow if everyone went overboard.

The entire experience of the "suicide mission" was shallow due to No One Left Behind achievement.

Sharptooth wrote...
Shiala
Kal'Reegar

can both die, so the may return only as cameos.

Sharptooth wrote...
Besides, Garrus is loyal anyway, doesn't matter if you kill Sidonis or let him live,
 

Unless Sidonis is at large, if Garrus's mission wasn't accomplished.

Sharptooth wrote...
your logic is flawed.

Logic can neither be somebody's nor flawed.

Your so blinded it's not even funny. Do you seriously think we'll get a game full of cameos just because someone can die? Again, it's consequences from the first 2 games. Get over it. What did you make the wrong decision or something?  Your logic IS flawed in the fact that you have absolutely no proof to back up your claims, except that 3 people from the 1st game got cameos. That's hardly compelling proof. Show some significant evidence, and then lets talk. But as long as it's pure 100% speculation on your part, don't expect people who actually think logically to yield to your claims.

-Polite

[Zulu_DFA]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Your logic IS flawed

-Polite

Exactly. I don't know who on Earth pronounced this phrase for the first time, but that person was an ignorant idiot. And all people who repeat it in a discussion that pretends to be serious and logical are just showing that they don't know squat about how logic works or what it is for, like that first person. And thus, only blind luck can prevent them from logical fallacies themselves. And you are not one of the luckies... See, logic does not operate with "evidence". It operates with bases, reasons and grounds. And logic can't be somebody's. And it can't be flawed. It just f***ing can't, like two parallel lines can't cross. Because logic does not mean "way of thinking". It means "rules of correct thinking". For your further education (and by this I mean flushing porridge out of your head), visit this page.

[KainrycKarr]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Your logic IS flawed

-Polite

I can't be wrong, because I have logic on my side, and logic, by it's very definition, cannot be wrong or flawed.

No offense, but that basically is what your response boiled down to.

[Zulu_DFA]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Your logic IS flawed

-Polite

I can't be wrong, because I have logic on my side, and logic, by it's very definition, cannot be wrong or flawed.

No offense, but that basically is what your response boiled down to.

My response boils down to: "You don't have logic on your side, so you can't judge my thinking from the logical standpoint".

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The entire experience of the "suicide mission" was shallow due to No One Left Behind achievement.

You're going to explain this one to me.  Why is it "shallow" because there's a way to keep everyone alive?  I would think there should be an incentive for players to find a way to keep casualties to a minimum (aka, the whole POINT of No One Left Behind).

[sykomisfit138]

My 5

Kal'Reegar

Kai Leng

Tazzik

Female Turian

Lilihierax

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The entire experience of the "suicide mission" was shallow due to No One Left Behind achievement.

You're going to explain this one to me.  Why is it "shallow" because there's a way to keep everyone alive?  I would think there should be an incentive for players to find a way to keep casualties to a minimum (aka, the whole POINT of No One Left Behind).

Because it's a SUCIDE MISSION. The option to bring everyone back alive:
 
1. should not exist

2. if it is to exist, it should be very hard to attain, a lot harder than "everybody dies" ending.

As it is, it's just a joke to call it a "suicide mission". The Collectors are inept wussies, and you paragon folks think that Zaeed is "bad fire team leader" because he had casualties on his suicide missions. I averted this wussy effect in my game, by working hard to bring back only three squadmates from Omega-4 relay (one of whom would die afterwards).

sykomisfit138 wrote...

Female Turian
Lilihierax

Lilihierax is a female Turian!!!

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The entire experience of the "suicide mission" was shallow due to No One Left Behind achievement.

You're going to explain this one to me.  Why is it "shallow" because there's a way to keep everyone alive?  I would think there should be an incentive for players to find a way to keep casualties to a minimum (aka, the whole POINT of No One Left Behind).

Because it's a [/b][/i]SUCIDE MISSION[b]. The option to bring everyone back alive:
 
1. should not exist

2. if it is to exist, it should be very hard to attain, a lot harder than "everybody dies" ending.

As it is, it's just a joke to call it a "suicide mission". The Collectors are inept wussies, and you paragon folks think that Zaeed is "bad fire team leader" because he had casualties on his suicide missions. I averted this wussy effect in my game, by [i]working hard to bring back only three squadmates from Omega-4 relay (one of whom would die afterwards).

It's considered a "suicide mission" because everyone EXPECTS that you won't come back.  Besides, if squadmates were forced to be killed a la Virmire, I think you'd get a lot of people complaining.  I mean, what would've been the point of picking up these characters and developing them as much as Bioware did...if they simply die arbitrarily or at random?  The Virmire decision had serious impact because of the low squad-member count, you were basically losing someone, and there was NO way to avoid it.  To toss another such decision at us would be pointless, especially considering the carry-over into ME3.

Also, how hard should "hard" be?  For someone with no prior knowledge or spoilers who plays the game I actually assume they'll likely lose 1 or 2 people on their first run, likely more.  If you think it should be so hard people lose over half their squad...well, I think you're the only person who thinks the game should be that difficult.

Also, as to the Zaeed remark and Paragon insults...I won't even get into that.  There's an entire thread for that which conclusively proved why he doesn't work.  The only person unconvinced is Smud, but then Smud refuses to be convinced of anything.  And if you felt you had to kill people off for your canon, that's perfectly fine.  Doesn't make much sense to us, but fine.

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Also, as to the Zaeed remark and Paragon insults...I won't even get into that.  There's an entire thread for that which conclusively proved why he doesn't work.  The only person unconvinced is Smud, but then Smud refuses to be convinced of anything.  And if you felt you had to kill people off for your canon, that's perfectly fine.  Doesn't make much sense to us, but fine.

Concerning that thread, first, Smud is not the only person. Secondly, all that thread conclusively proved is the Paragon folks think all suicide missions should end in happily ever after.

To return to the main point of this thread:

90% per сent of people think that the squad should be smaller and more interactive rather than bigger and less interactive. Therefore, ME3 squad should be more like ME1 squad, than ME2 squad. Therefore, with two tickets going to Liara and Ashley/Kaidan, some tickets going to new faces, there are simply too few tickets left to accomadate more than 2-3 ME2 expendables, making it all the more probable, that all those tickets will go to new faces while ME2 expendables will be given optional roles, which will be either quite small (cameo), or come at additional price for the customer (DLC).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Arijharn]

While a suicide mission that has deaths is realistic, I don't think it'd be particularly fun. I like to play games for escapism and because Shephard is an all conquering war god. Having said that, I like consequences.

[Thatguy38]

Just speculation as to why ME 3 won't use most of the original crew.

Zaeed: DLC, Worthless
Kasumi: DLC, Worthless
Miranda: actually, she is a maybe, or she is going after her father, so won't be available.
Tali: I think she will become an admiral, or go back to the fleet to try to stop Xen
Jacob: uh, he gets eaten by a thresher maw or something
Grunt: Goes back to Tusanka to help Rex
Jack: if you read the codex, I think the increased biotics shortens her life span. she'll probably burn out young
Mordin: dies of old age
Garrus: he will probably join your team again, I think he is going to be one of the characters that carries through to all 3 games
Thane: dies of Keplers Syndrome
Legion: hard to say, I think Lore finds his geth and starts his own faction or something
Samara: goes back to Asari space

as to new characters?

no idea, but it would be cool to at least see some of the other races represented, such as a Volus, a Batarian, and a female Turian. Even an Elcor would be cool, but I don't see how much use he would be, but the conversations would be funny.

Modifié par Thatguy38, 09 août 2010 - 07:55 .

[smudboy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Concerning that thread, first, Smud is not the only person. Secondly, all that thread conclusively proved is the Paragon folks think all suicide missions should end in happily ever after.

To return to the main point of this thread:

90% per сent of people think that the squad should be smaller and more interactive rather than bigger and less interactive. Therefore, ME3 squad should be more like ME1 squad, than ME2 squad. Therefore, with two tickets going to Liara and Ashley/Kaidan, some tickets going to new faces, there are simply too few tickets left to accomadate more than 2-3 ME2 expendables, making it all the more probable, that all those tickets will go to new faces while ME2 expendables will be given optional roles, which will be either quite small (cameo), or come at additional price for the customer (DLC).

I can definitely see the Liara and Tali fans dishing out the cash for the DLC.  And extended DLC.  And a spinoff title...

[KainrycKarr]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Your logic IS flawed

-Polite

I can't be wrong, because I have logic on my side, and logic, by it's very definition, cannot be wrong or flawed.

No offense, but that basically is what your response boiled down to.

My response boils down to: "You don't have logic on your side, so you can't judge my thinking from the logical standpoint".

But...all you did was re-word it. It boils down to the same thing. :l

[BellatrixLugosi]

Guys, Zulu is very rarely right about many things, but when it comes to me2 squad not being in Me3. There's a heavy chance that he's going to end up right about it. Give him at least this one thing.....

[Jaron Oberyn]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Your logic IS flawed

-Polite

I can't be wrong, because I have logic on my side, and logic, by it's very definition, cannot be wrong or flawed.

No offense, but that basically is what your response boiled down to.

My response boils down to: "You don't have logic on your side, so you can't judge my thinking from the logical standpoint".

But...all you did was re-word it. It boils down to the same thing. :l

Don't waste your time with this guy. He's as stubborn as Smudboy. They have no logic, no solid argument. I have yet to see them link to an article/video that will help prove their claims. I've linked to several articles/videos to back up my claims. And they're all pointing to the same thing. So looks like "logic is on my side". 

I really find this guy amusing, because he's so wrong, yet he thinks he's so right. I guess that's the definition of being persistent. 

-Polite

[BellatrixLugosi]

Well, the common behavior of Smudboy and zulu suggest's one in the same, even with the whole one posting after the other, and logging on after the other logs off. They both overreact to plotholes, game play, and changes in ME2. But I will give Zulu's op on this topic one of the few things he's right about. Because with the things that have been mentioned beforehand Me2 squad is most likely not to be in third. But how he's handling himself now..........not so right about how he is directing the conversation

[KainrycKarr]

I still think Bioware is just going to monitor player choices in-game, and only bring back the characters used/romanced the most. Rest'll be new characters, unfortunately.



Of course, that's just me being optimistic. They might just say screw everyone and do a whole new cast...it can go either way. I've said it once, I'll say it again, the determining factor will be which option does Bioware/EA think will make the most money?

[Jaron Oberyn]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Well, the common behavior of Smudboy and zulu suggest's one in the same, even with the whole one posting after the other, and logging on after the other logs off. They both overreact to plotholes, game play, and changes in ME2. But I will give Zulu's op on this topic one of the few things he's right about. Because with the things that have been mentioned beforehand Me2 squad is most likely not to be in third. But how he's handling himself now..........not so right about how he is directing the conversation

Well we'll find out in the third game then won't we. Or at least when the game is being covered by IGN, gamespot, Joystiq, etc... and we have some new info to go on. 

As for Smudboy and Zulu, now that you mention it they do seem to be on/off around the same time. A quick IP check will determine if they're the same or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they're the same person. Good eye. 

-Polite

[Zulu_DFA]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Well, the common behavior of Smudboy and zulu suggest's one in the same, even with the whole one posting after the other, and logging on after the other logs off. They both overreact to plotholes, game play, and changes in ME2.

Lol, this thing again...

*headdesk*

BellatrixLugosi wrote...
But I will give Zulu's op on this topic one of the few things he's right about. Because with the things that have been mentioned beforehand Me2 squad is most likely not to be in third. But how he's handling himself now..........not so right about how he is directing the conversation

Well, thank you very much, I'll hint you on another thing I'm right about (hope it won't be a shock for you): Marlboro doesn't make cigarettes!

PoliteAssasin wrote...

As for Smudboy and Zulu, now that you mention it they do seem to be on/off around the same time. A quick IP check will determine if they're the same or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they're the same person. Good eye. 

-Polite

No, genius, if I were posing as Smudboy I could do so using another computer with a separate up-link to the Internet via different provider with routing through different hubs, located in different countries. So your quick IP check wouldn't cut it.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Don't waste your time with this guy. He's as stubborn as Smudboy. They have no logic, no solid argument. I have yet to see them link to an article/video that will help prove their claims. I've linked to several articles/videos to back up my claims. And they're all pointing to the same thing. So looks like "logic is on my side". 

I really find this guy amusing, because he's so wrong, yet he thinks he's so right. I guess that's the definition of being persistent. 

-Polite

Your main problem is that it is you who fail at logic forever, and it prevents you from seeing that other people are quite logical about what they say even though their posts slightly differ from one another and some of them even fall in the same pit of thinking that they use "their logics" instead of the logic. Your main problem also prevents you from understanding that there are no videos or articles to back up anyone's (and this includes yours) claims, because the only thing BioWare has been talking about ME3 so far is that they aren't yet talking about ME3. So interpret the ME2 related articles and videos all you want, they still provide zero information about ME3.

That said, most of those articles and videos you "provide" are widely known and most people just use the information from them without linking them up. It's not like everybody keeps libraries of Internet bookmarks to everything they ever clicked on. But whenever anyone tries to show you that your claims don't necessarily result from those articles & videos, and are product of your heavily biased (towards wishful thinking) interpretation, you call such people "kids", say that you're "sorry", and they are "so wrong", and finish them with a "lol" or smiley. And whenever anybody posts something you can't refute in that way, you simply ignore it and some time after a mod comes around waving a banhammer at people without any apparent reason. Well, even though it's worked so far, it looks pathetic. Just a layman's opinion.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 août 2010 - 11:08 .

[BellatrixLugosi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Well, the common behavior of Smudboy and zulu suggest's one in the same, even with the whole one posting after the other, and logging on after the other logs off. They both overreact to plotholes, game play, and changes in ME2.

Lol, this thing again...

*headdesk*

BellatrixLugosi wrote...
But I will give Zulu's op on this topic one of the few things he's right about. Because with the things that have been mentioned beforehand Me2 squad is most likely not to be in third. But how he's handling himself now..........not so right about how he is directing the conversation

Well, thank you very much, I'll hint you on another thing I'm right about (hope it won't be a shock for you): Marlboro doesn't make cigarettes!

PoliteAssasin wrote...

As for Smudboy and Zulu, now that you mention it they do seem to be on/off around the same time. A quick IP check will determine if they're the same or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they're the same person. Good eye. 

-Polite

No, genius, if I were posing as Smudboy I could do so using another computer with a separate up-link to the Internet via different provider with routing through different hubs, located in different countries. So your quick IP check wouldn't cut it.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Don't waste your time with this guy. He's as stubborn as Smudboy. They have no logic, no solid argument. I have yet to see them link to an article/video that will help prove their claims. I've linked to several articles/videos to back up my claims. And they're all pointing to the same thing. So looks like "logic is on my side". 

I really find this guy amusing, because he's so wrong, yet he thinks he's so right. I guess that's the definition of being persistent. 

-Polite

Your main problem is that it is you who fail at logic forever, and it prevents you from seeing that other people are quite logical about what they say even though their posts slightly differ from one another and some of them even fall in the same pit of thinking that they use "their logics" instead of the logic. Your main problem also prevents you from understanding that there are no videos or articles to back up anyone's (and this includes yours) claims, because the only thing BioWare has been talking about ME3 so far is that they aren't yet talking about ME3. So interpret the ME2 related articles and videos all you want, they still provide zero information about ME3.

That said, most of those articles and videos you "provide" are widely known and most people just use the information from them without linking them up. It's not like everybody keeps libraries of Internet bookmarks to everything they ever clicked on. But whenever anyone tries to show you that your claims don't necessarily result from those articles & videos, and are product of your heavily biased (towards wishful thinking) interpretation, you call such people "kids", say that you're "sorry", and they are "so wrong", and finish them with a "lol" or smiley. And whenever anybody posts something you can't refute in that way, you simply ignore it and some time after a mod comes around waving a banhammer at people without any apparent reason. Well, even though it's worked so far, it looks pathetic. Just a layman's opinion.

Zulu can you like, just take a chill pill?  Your reply to assasin is just garbage, don't talk about logic when your not being logical yourself.  And also dont talk about someone not backing up their claims when your ME2 vs. ME1 are based on purely emotional arguement.  chill

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Zulu_DFA wrote..
Reasons for ME2 squadmates to be absent (dead) from ME3, aside from death on the suicide mission:
Thane - terminally ill

Or he goes to the Citadel to spend his last days with his son.

Mordin - old age

Or he returns to his clinic on Omega.

Legion - sent to Cerberus

Or stays on the Normandy to help fight the Reapers.

Grunt - dies in the tank

Or goes back to Tunchanka to breed.

Samara - killed for Morinth

Or Samara leaves to continue her mission as a Justicar. Morinth leaves to keep killing.

Zaeed - abandoned to burn on Zorya

Or leaves to continues hunting Vido.

Kasumi - hunted for her graybox

Or stays on the Normandy for protection.

Tali - suicidal over dad's honor (unloyalty)

Or leaves to take her father's place on the Admiralty Board.
Or stays on the Normandy after being exiled.
Or stays and is recognized a member of the Normandy crew by quarain law and thus doesn't need to return to Migrant Fleet.
 

Jack - mental disorder (?) or detained by Cerberus for study

Or stays if had romance with Paragon Shepard or leaves after mission to go on a rampage.

Garrus - none, but simple unloyalty (Sidonis at large)

Or stays like Tali, Legion, Jacob, and Miranda stays because he has no real home to go to.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 10 août 2010 - 04:23 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Rant

Zulu can you like, just take a chill pill?  Your reply to assasin is just garbage, don't talk about logic when your not being logical yourself.  And also dont talk about someone not backing up their claims when your ME2 vs. ME1 are based on purely emotional arguement.  chill

Exactly why I can't engage him in a discussion. He resorts to personal insults and talks about "logic" when he knows he's being beaten in an argument. That's not a reflection of maturity at all. 

Oh, and just a little FYI 2 of the articles I linked to support my claims were Mass Effect 3 articles, and not Mass 2 ones.  

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

[quote]Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
Reasons for ME2 squadmates to be absent (dead) from ME3, aside from death on the suicide mission:
Thane - terminally ill[/quote]

Or he goes to the Citadel to spend his last days with his son.




[quote]Mordin - old age[/quote]Or he returns to his clinic on Omega.




[quote]Legion - sent to Cerberus[/quote]Or stays on the Normandy to help fight the Reapers.




[quote]Grunt - dies in the tank[/quote]Or goes back to Tunchanka to breed.




[quote]Samara - killed for Morinth[/quote]Or Samara leaves to continue her mission as a Justicar. Morinth leaves to keep killing.




[quote]Zaeed - abandoned to burn on Zorya[/quote]Or leaves to continues hunting Vido.




[quote]Kasumi - hunted for her graybox[/quote]Or stays on the Normandy for protection.




[quote]Tali - suicidal over dad's honor (unloyalty)[/quote]Or leaves to take her father's place on the Admiralty Board.
Or stays on the Normandy after being exiled.
Or stays and is recognized a member of the Normandy crew by quarain law and thus doesn't need to return to Migrant Fleet.
 



[quote]Jack - mental disorder (?) or detained by Cerberus for study[/quote]Or stays if had romance with Paragon Shepard or leaves after mission to go on a rampage.




[quote]Garrus - none, but simple unloyalty (Sidonis at large)[/quote]Or stays like Tali, Legion, Jacob, and Miranda stays because he has no real home to go to.[/quote]

Exactly. You have to think about the different outcomes based not only on what you did with the squaddies, for example LI status, or loyalty mission outcome, but also the fact that many of them have no where left to go. 

-Polite