762 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Stazro wrote...
ME2 consists in a large part of recruiting allies and gaining their loyalty, while the episode around the collectors seems to me like an Intermezzo.

That's it. Intermezzo. The main theme of ME2 as the middle part of the trilogy was making (forcing) Shepard work with Cerberus on a mission related to the Reaper threat (which had been planned for, I believe, since the very beginning - that is during the ME1's development already).

While all the squadmates' stories were just filler. Content. Something to make the game longer. The "loyalty" was just a gameplay mechanic related to the "suicide mission".

Stazro wrote...
there needed to be a really good reason why they would stop helping Shepard fight the reapers and I honestly can't think of one.

Nobody is going to leave Shepard's team. It's Shepard who's going to be away again.

Aurica wrote...
while those who survived...   Well they all got killed in between the end of ME2 to ME3 & our shephard will found out about it via some form of lame email or through another NPC.

EPIC!!!

Full support!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 octobre 2010 - 01:27 .

[Stazro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Stazro wrote...
ME2 consists in a large part of recruiting allies and gaining their loyalty, while the episode around the collectors seems to me like an Intermezzo.

That's it. Intermezzo. The main theme of ME2 as the middle part of the trilogy was making (forcing) Shepard work with Cerberus on a mission related to the Reaper threat (which had been planned for, I believe, since the very beginning - that is during the ME1's development already).

While all the squadmates' stories were just filler. Content. Something to make the game longer. The "loyalty" was just a gameplay mechanic related to the "suicide mission".

Stazro wrote...
there needed to be a really good reason why they would stop helping Shepard fight the reapers and I honestly can't think of one.

Nobody is going to leave Shepard's team. It's Shepard who's going to be away again.

Aurica wrote...
while those who survived...   Well they all got killed in between the end of ME2 to ME3 & our shephard will found out about it via some form of lame email or through another NPC.

EPIC!!!

Full support!

You make some good points, but the thing that concerns me is that with your solution ME2 could be ditched without any impact on the trilogy (e-mails and mini-quest don't count, that's "cheating continuity"). Could be true, but I really would not like that.

[omgodzilla]

They could make every character from Mass Effect 2 return and if they are dead then that simply means you have less squad mates. You don't get any replacements or anything. If you only have 4 squad mates left alive then thats all you get for Mass effect 3. Seems like a good way to punish anyone silly enough to get their people killed =D



Sorry if this was already suggested, I only read the first page of this thread.

[Haventh]

I choose less squadmates and more interactions any day. But it depemds less of what, ad ME 3 is a conclusion to the ME Shepard story... perhaps it is best if it is one massive game, tying up all the loose ends in the ME Shepard trilogy. 

Modifié par Haventh, 01 novembre 2010 - 12:55 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

I really do not want new squadmates in ME3. Except for maybe Anderson. Really though, I thought it was rather silly to have Legion as a squadmate in ME2, just something to make fans buzz-buzz 6 months before the game is released, I don't want BioWare trying to "top" it by given you a Hanar or Batarian squadmate in ME3. Now that I think about it, as cool as having Aria as a squadmate would be does anyone actually believe she'd take orders for Shepard?



So, it's possible for Tali to die in final mission of ME2? That's interesting as I believe the Quarian flotilla will play a major role in ME3.

[curly haired boy]

i fully expect to have 12+ squadmates in ME3. it's the last episode of shepard's story, there's no reason to not pull out all the stops. i remember some interview where the devs said "depending on how you play ME2, ME3 may have a lot of content missing".



bioware will do the right thing.

[Googlesaurus]

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I really do not want new squadmates in ME3. Except for maybe Anderson. Really though, I thought it was rather silly to have Legion as a squadmate in ME2, just something to make fans buzz-buzz 6 months before the game is released, I don't want BioWare trying to "top" it by given you a Hanar or Batarian squadmate in ME3. Now that I think about it, as cool as having Aria as a squadmate would be does anyone actually believe she'd take orders for Shepard?

So, it's possible for Tali to die in final mission of ME2? That's interesting as I believe the Quarian flotilla will play a major role in ME3.

As silly as recruiting a volatile biotic cannon who happens to utterly despise the very organization you work for? Or a "survival means all" Krogan scientist who only seems to serve as a foil to Mordin?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^You know, a Collector squadmate would be the ultimate comeuppance for ME3 over ME2, as stupid as that may or may not be.

But ME3 is going to be the final game in the series (not series, not necessarily franchise), so it'd be fitting if it were a huge game in which everything came full-circle. I don't really care about getting new squadmates in it, as long as every major player surviving from ME1 and ME2 make some decent appearance. Also, I think us players deserve to be rewarded for everyone we've managed to save over the last two games, especially after playing so many extra hours over what would have otherwise been a rather short game, just to get the No One Left Behind achievement.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 02 novembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I'm fine with having less squad and more interaction if there is more recruit ables then can fit on the ship that way I PICK who from info gathered via my organizational alignment (Citadel,Cerberus) and SB resources that would be enough to inform players and allow them to literally hand pick who comes on the ship sense only a portion can actually fit would add super replay value too.

In more of a general response cameo appearances is not a reward they're nice thats it I don't feel rewarded when Liara my LI shows up treats me like I have the plague then a DLC is issued to reamend that treatment I think the complaints over her actions sparked the DLC no more.

I wish she was (personality wise) like we saw in DLC rather then what we first got in the main story. I also didn't feel rewarded when Kaiden or Ashly show up and call me a traitor right off the bat with barely a hello cameos are not to be confused with reward the people show up for 5 minutes and run off its nice to see them but a reward is like I get money or a really big planet killing gun thats a reward.


As far as coming back squad wise as in should already be on my ship at the start of 3:

Tali (Obvious she's been there from the beginning even flotilla implosion won't pull her away)
Garrus ( Same he's in it to win it)
Kasumi ( Grey Box kept or not she's useful)
Grunt ( You're his battlemaster and he wants to be where the big action is)
Miranda ( though I personally don't want her there I just want to have her replaced as XO)


As far as NPC characters returning:

Aria (she's interesting they need to flush her out more if done right she could be super win npc)
Wrex ( Already aiding you w/ Tuchanka forces no reason to kill him off now)
Liara ( Same helping you on the info wars brewing big asset)
Shiala aka Feros girl ( I think she needs a bigger role she's helped with the colonist, served under Benezia she's got to be more then a simple follower)
Shiira aka the consort ( Due to news broadcast she's leaving I'm thinking she's got a bigger role and w/ her mind control abilities I think she's a reaper spy)

As far as new ME3 squad members they should have 2 or 3 if you didn't kill off you're entire squad sense by the sound of it Mordin will be an NPC, Samara will be gone and an NPC, Thane will be dieing and an NPC so 3 new members could realistically be made as fillers and more 3 characters would show up if you killed off more squad members from two also anyone not doing really important reaper assistance like Kaiden/Ashly would become recruitable in 3 anyway so a combo of 1,2, and 3 people could be mixed and matched as the payer deems it if you have 20 recruitable candidates but only 8 can fit on the ship sort of thing.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 03 novembre 2010 - 02:05 .

[Aurica]

curly haired boy wrote...

i fully expect to have 12+ squadmates in ME3. it's the last episode of shepard's story, there's no reason to not pull out all the stops. i remember some interview where the devs said "depending on how you play ME2, ME3 may have a lot of content missing".

bioware will do the right thing.

I'm sure Bioware will, but then.. EA owns Bioware..  If they exert pressure on Bioware to release the game by a certain time-line.  Some unfinished content / features that were meant to be in there but couldn't be completed in time will probably be axed.  Or return as a DLC

Modifié par Aurica, 03 novembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Big I]

Things to keep in mind:

1) Some of the strongest, most interesting parts of the ME story are about your squad; this will likely continue into ME3

2) The central gameplay mechanic is squad based combat with you and your squad using specialised combat styles and powers; you can mix and match characters (e.g. tech, biotic, or combat) to suit your playstyle

3) Using game and story techniques learnt from the previous two games, the devs are going to make ME3 as interesting as possible for everyone


With this is mind, I agree with the OP; they will not make a game that you need to have played two others to enjoy. They WILL make a game that gives you interesting combat and squadmates you care about, but they will be almost entirely new.


Look at it this way - in ME2, each squad member (apart from Kasumi and Zaeed) had between 3-5 unique conversations with Shepard. Were they to carry over the squad completely and do that again, you're looking at 30-50 unique conversations. That's a lot of work for content that most people might not see.


Before ME2, a lot of fans said they didn't want a new squad, they wanted the old one back. Bioware said "Tough", and gave us a new one (mostly). And it all worked out well.


EDIT: Forgot to add that I think the Virmire survivor will be back on the squad, as Bioware has in the past said they wanted to save them for ME3.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 04 novembre 2010 - 12:36 .

[hitorihanzo]

I honestly don't think that we'll be seeing any new Spectres in the group. Especially a Turian. Garrus is probably better than most spectres based on his combat record by now. Same with Samara.



The only new member I want is Kai Leng.

[Nozybidaj]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That is what I feared. I still say that if you only said Liara that the ground that you are standing on would be more solid than it is when you include the Virmire survivor.

Does it matter?  Neither Liara nor the VS will be returning as squadmates either.  Most likely they'll be plot relevant npc's or quest givers in which case the individuality of the VS is moot.

[Bourne Endeavor]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Things to keep in mind:

1) Some of the strongest, most interesting parts of the ME story are about your squad; this will likely continue into ME3

2) The central gameplay mechanic is squad based combat with you and your squad using specialised combat styles and powers; you can mix and match characters (e.g. tech, biotic, or combat) to suit your playstyle

3) Using game and story techniques learnt from the previous two games, the devs are going to make ME3 as interesting as possible for everyone


With this is mind, I agree with the OP; they will not make a game that you need to have played two others to enjoy. They WILL make a game that gives you interesting combat and squadmates you care about, but they will be almost entirely new.


Look at it this way - in ME2, each squad member (apart from Kasumi and Zaeed) had between 3-5 unique conversations with Shepard. Were they to carry over the squad completely and do that again, you're looking at 30-50 unique conversations. That's a lot of work for content that most people might not see.


Before ME2, a lot of fans said they didn't want a new squad, they wanted the old one back. Bioware said "Tough", and gave us a new one (mostly). And it all worked out well.


EDIT: Forgot to add that I think the Virmire survivor will be back on the squad, as Bioware has in the past said they wanted to save them for ME3.

Unfortunately, Bioware will run into a significant qualm. In order to make the game appealing to the legion of fans, it is a nigh necessity that a fair portion of the squad mates return to active form. When Wrex was cited to not be included at all, the backlash was monstrous and a cameo was created. With the immense fanbase Garrus and Tali have accumulated. If they were regulated to cheap cameos, do you honestly believe those respectful people would be interested? At this juncture, I firmly believe if all the cast is cameo'd, it will impact sales in a negatively light. Speaking for myself, I would have no vented interest in touching ME3 for some time if I were to find I had to continue the monotonous task of learning about a whole new cast because Bioware was either incapable or unwilling to live up to the promise they advertized.

Furthermore, Mass Effect 2 would become a complete waste of time if ME3 disregarded the cast. The entire purpose was to create an elite team. Aye, this was to combat the Collectors, however if they entire team disbands thereafter. What purpose did ME2 serve? It did not expand on the Reaper storyline whatsoever, in actuality it sarcely mentioned it. The loss of the crew officially cites ME2 as one of the most useless additions to a trilogy I can contemplate, as the game would be nothing beyond an overglorfied side-quest.

Should the mentality be ME3 is developed for everyone would be an enormous design flaw because of the ramifications that are inevitable to follow. It would ruin the franchise for the established fanbase for the aforementioned reason. Frankly, it is an impossibility and any developer who believes otherwise is delusional. You cannot appeal to everyone, such is simply unfeasible and nothing more than misguided arrogance. The fact there exist a discussion almost every few minutes of why the squad should return, is proof ME3 cannot ever achievement this illusion. Those people would instantaneously be dissatisfied or angered, therefore not appealed.

What is irksome is the possibility of Bioware attempting this impossibility and failing miserably. The game was billed a trilogy from the onset. Why is it why must appeal to people who cannot be bothered to play the series' predecessors and demand the third game feed them a plot they can comprehend with no bewilderment? R.K Rowling did not write the Harry Potter series with the intent of appeasing people who began with the fourth novel. Thus, why should Bioware with Mass Effect?

[Destroy Raiden_]

If the poll was working I would've said less crew more intimate dailouge and scenarios. Tali and Garrus have to come back for 3 and not as cameos physically on my crew because w/o them my para shep will turn into an evil drinking hell spawn with a propensity for gore and violence! And the reapers will be the least of the galaxies problems!

But seriously they do need to come back it really would not be the same w/o them on my crew they're essential to my crew. I'd ideally like to see more recruitables then can fit on the ship I was thinking over it 4 like one had is too small for reaper fight the 12 in two was way way too many so I was thinking 8 because if teams need to get divided I can have 3 on ground teams leading assaults if need be 2 go with say Garrus, Samara takes 2, then I take 2 my count of 8 man team does not include shep sense he's the commander FYI.

But if the count needed to be down to 6 on crew w/ more intimate and meaningful conversations, situations, and dailouge then I'd go with that as long as I can pick from a large pool of people and customize who comes on board using the SB data, vids, and Cerberus or Citadel resources it would in theory be possible for the player to research before hand who can be recruited and then go find who they can to recruit or rerecruit. So I could mix people from 1 and 3 or 2 and 1.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 19 novembre 2010 - 06:02 .

[Nozybidaj]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Unfortunately, Bioware will run into a significant qualm. In order to make the game appealing to the legion of fans, it is a nigh necessity that a fair portion of the squad mates return to active form. When Wrex was cited to not be included at all, the backlash was monstrous and a cameo was created. With the immense fanbase Garrus and Tali have accumulated. If they were regulated to cheap cameos, do you honestly believe those respectful people would be interested? At this juncture, I firmly believe if all the cast is cameo'd, it will impact sales in a negatively light. Speaking for myself, I would have no vented interest in touching ME3 for some time if I were to find I had to continue the monotonous task of learning about a whole new cast because Bioware was either incapable or unwilling to live up to the promise they advertized.

Furthermore, Mass Effect 2 would become a complete waste of time if ME3 disregarded the cast. The entire purpose was to create an elite team. Aye, this was to combat the Collectors, however if they entire team disbands thereafter. What purpose did ME2 serve? It did not expand on the Reaper storyline whatsoever, in actuality it sarcely mentioned it. The loss of the crew officially cites ME2 as one of the most useless additions to a trilogy I can contemplate, as the game would be nothing beyond an overglorfied side-quest.

Should the mentality be ME3 is developed for everyone would be an enormous design flaw because of the ramifications that are inevitable to follow. It would ruin the franchise for the established fanbase for the aforementioned reason. Frankly, it is an impossibility and any developer who believes otherwise is delusional. You cannot appeal to everyone, such is simply unfeasible and nothing more than misguided arrogance. The fact there exist a discussion almost every few minutes of why the squad should return, is proof ME3 cannot ever achievement this illusion. Those people would instantaneously be dissatisfied or angered, therefore not appealed.

What is irksome is the possibility of Bioware attempting this impossibility and failing miserably. The game was billed a trilogy from the onset. Why is it why must appeal to people who cannot be bothered to play the series' predecessors and demand the third game feed them a plot they can comprehend with no bewilderment? R.K Rowling did not write the Harry Potter series with the intent of appeasing people who began with the fourth novel. Thus, why should Bioware with Mass Effect?

Everyone one of those arguments could have been (and was) made before ME2 about the ME1 squad.  BW didn't give two frags what 'the fans' thought about it then, I doubt they will now.

[Ahriman]

Nozybidaj wrote...
Everyone one of those arguments could have been (and was) made before ME2 about the ME1 squad.  BW didn't give two frags what 'the fans' thought about it then, I doubt they will now.

And there was only 3 'mortal' squadmates not even 12, but we all can see result.

[AdmiralCheez]

OP: Don't underestimate the power of the fans; we made Garrus and Tali romanceable, and God knows what else we'll force out of the devs (for better or worse). While I agree that NOT ALL squadmates will be recruitable again, at least a couple of them will (so long as you don't kill them in the suicide mission). Why? Mostly because I say so, but also because they already blew up the Normandy, disbanded the crew, and had the Virmire Survivor show up long enough to call you a traitor. Doing it again would show a significant lack of effort and creativity on their part.



Besides, the entire GOAL of the suicide mission was to get everyone out alive. Not only did they set the game up to make it painfully obvious what you had to do to save everyone, but they dangled a wonderful carrot in front of you--an achievement--to coax you into trying.

[Phaedon]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

OP: Don't underestimate the power of the fans; we made Garrus and Tali romanceable, and God knows what else we'll force out of the devs (for better or worse). While I agree that NOT ALL squadmates will be recruitable again, at least a couple of them will (so long as you don't kill them in the suicide mission). Why? Mostly because I say so, but also because they already blew up the Normandy, disbanded the crew, and had the Virmire Survivor show up long enough to call you a traitor. Doing it again would show a significant lack of effort and creativity on their part.

Besides, the entire GOAL of the suicide mission was to get everyone out alive. Not only did they set the game up to make it painfully obvious what you had to do to save everyone, but they dangled a wonderful carrot in front of you--an achievement--to coax you into trying.

I bet that all of the squadmates will be in ME3. You won't even have to recruit them, they'll be sitting aboard the Normandy.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Unfortunately, Bioware will run into a significant qualm. In order to make the game appealing to the legion of fans, it is a nigh necessity that a fair portion of the squad mates return to active form. When Wrex was cited to not be included at all, the backlash was monstrous and a cameo was created. With the immense fanbase Garrus and Tali have accumulated. If they were regulated to cheap cameos, do you honestly believe those respectful people would be interested? At this juncture, I firmly believe if all the cast is cameo'd, it will impact sales in a negatively light. Speaking for myself, I would have no vented interest in touching ME3 for some time if I were to find I had to continue the monotonous task of learning about a whole new cast because Bioware was either incapable or unwilling to live up to the promise they advertized.

Furthermore, Mass Effect 2 would become a complete waste of time if ME3 disregarded the cast. The entire purpose was to create an elite team. Aye, this was to combat the Collectors, however if they entire team disbands thereafter. What purpose did ME2 serve? It did not expand on the Reaper storyline whatsoever, in actuality it sarcely mentioned it. The loss of the crew officially cites ME2 as one of the most useless additions to a trilogy I can contemplate, as the game would be nothing beyond an overglorfied side-quest.

Should the mentality be ME3 is developed for everyone would be an enormous design flaw because of the ramifications that are inevitable to follow. It would ruin the franchise for the established fanbase for the aforementioned reason. Frankly, it is an impossibility and any developer who believes otherwise is delusional. You cannot appeal to everyone, such is simply unfeasible and nothing more than misguided arrogance. The fact there exist a discussion almost every few minutes of why the squad should return, is proof ME3 cannot ever achievement this illusion. Those people would instantaneously be dissatisfied or angered, therefore not appealed.

What is irksome is the possibility of Bioware attempting this impossibility and failing miserably. The game was billed a trilogy from the onset. Why is it why must appeal to people who cannot be bothered to play the series' predecessors and demand the third game feed them a plot they can comprehend with no bewilderment? R.K Rowling did not write the Harry Potter series with the intent of appeasing people who began with the fourth novel. Thus, why should Bioware with Mass Effect?

Everyone one of those arguments could have been (and was) made before ME2 about the ME1 squad.  BW didn't give two frags what 'the fans' thought about it then, I doubt they will now.

You did not spend the majority of Mass Effect recruiting allies, nor were the characters the focal point of the story. In addition, ME had a constructed plot, which had concluded. Therefore, it was not illogical some of the squad left and by that token two out of the available five remained. And if reports were accurate, the immense negative backlash Bioware received when speculation lingered characters; specifically Wrex, may not have a cameo at all, was the cause for said cameo.  It discredits the notion they do not listen to the fans. Hell a fair portion of ME2's design is due to fan requests.

People may well be more meticulous with ME3, armored with how cameos were handled in ME2. If Bioware does not care. It is hardly a stretch the fans may not care to purchase their game. That is not good for business.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Now why is my post not showing up?

Edit: Bah!

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 19 novembre 2010 - 09:27 .

[Bengamey0]

We are heading to a global conflict in ME3.A large part of the game will be IMO uniting all the factions for the final strike back. Then your interaction with your squatmates in ME1&2 will give you different starting ground for the négociation and you can reach different solutions.



For instance the help you can get from quarians will be different if Tali is dead, in exile , loyal to shepard or not. Various amount of geth can figth on your side regarding the decisions you took with Legions.Cereberus will have more power to engage if you sent to them Grunt, Legion and the station.Thane can help you with the Hanar, Zaeed with blue sun's if you killed Vido ...



Recruiting each faction is possible regardless to what you did in the first two games but with different options.



Unless you kill Zaeed after the suicide mission, you have a minimum of 2 squadmates at the end of the mission or Shepard die. So I think you will begin with your squadmates from ME2. Then Liara Wrex/Wreav and the survivor from Virmire will join you + 1 or 2 new guys. There won't be any recruitment mission, every character joining you in the main plot. Some squadmates from ME2 may leave the team to lead an army or to be send in jail or for some other reasons.



Default choices in ME2 :



- Miranda : survivor

- Jacob : killed in suicide mission

- Mordin : killed in suicide mission

- Grunt : sent to Cerberus

- Garrus : survivor

- Jack : killed in suicide mission

- Thane : killed in suicide mission

- Samara : killed in suicide mission

- Tali : survivor in exile

- Legion : sent to Cerberus

- Zaeed : never met

- Kasumi : never met



You should be able to get Grunt and Legion back in your squad if you sent them to Cerberus but then they won't completely trust you !



-> 4 squadmates on your team whatever your choices are

(strong integration of the characters in the main missions, strong interaction with them)

-> 5 squadmates from ME2 avaible for people who starts with ME3

(Secondary missions linked to characters, options unlocked in main missions, medium interaction with them)

-> 7 squadmates only avaible from imported ME2 saves

(No missions directly linked to the characters but options unlocked in some missions, little interaction)



A little complex to design but could be great.

[Elite Midget]

That sounds like too much of a bother... I would much rather all saves get the same number of Squad Members. Which means that choosing who lives, who dies, and what to do with those saves with just 2 survivors would be a nightmare balance and gameplay wise.