762 réponses à ce sujet

[Bourne Endeavor]

Elite Midget wrote...

That sounds like too much of a bother... I would much rather all saves get the same number of Squad Members. Which means that choosing who lives, who dies, and what to do with those saves with just 2 survivors would be a nightmare balance and gameplay wise.

In all honesty, I believe it is in Bioware's best interest to somewhat ignore balance. If you have files where you have lost more than two squad mates. It was purely intentional, be it through sheer refusal to pay attention to the obvious hints the game offers or because you wanted specific team members dead. Even two is arguably intentional, due to how easy the suicide mission is. So long as there is balance with say, half the squad mates. It would be for the best. The game should not be made easy for those who purposely killed off their team.

[Ahriman]

Phaedon wrote...
I bet that all of the squadmates will be in ME3. You won't even have to recruit them, they'll be sitting aboard the Normandy.

I just cannot understand why some people sure that we'll start ME3 with full team, max level and full pocket.

[Bengamey0]

Elite Midget wrote...

That sounds like too much of a bother... I would much rather all saves get the same number of Squad Members. Which means that choosing who lives, who dies, and what to do with those saves with just 2 survivors would be a nightmare balance and gameplay wise.

I don't think  balance is so important. (ME2  It's not a multiplayer game so it's not unfair if a profile is easier to play than another). Moreover you can only take two squadmates at a time with you so you're not overpowered with a squad of 20 you just have more options.

For gameplay, BIOWARE stated that regarding you're decision in ME2 a large part of the story of ME3 might be lacking.

[CroGamer002]

How should ME3 start?

[Lumikki]

Where is option having:

3. less squad mates and less interaction
4. more squad mates with more interaction.

Just because these choises are maybe more rare, doesn't mean they should not be in poll. People when you do polls, learn to consider ALL options, not just what you self consider important. Point is that by limiting choises in poll, you force people to choose between what you offer, even if choises would be something what people would not choose at all, if other options would be there.

PS: Also when there is less and more, there is also option "same" as before. Also opinion, doesn't matter as not care is choise.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

While I agree that NOT ALL squadmates will be recruitable again, at least a couple of them will (so long as you don't kill them in the suicide mission).

Possibly. Day1 DLC, Collectors' Edition, Paid DLC. Isn't Tali worth a few extra bucks?

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Besides, the entire GOAL of the suicide mission was to get everyone out alive.

The goal of the "suicide mission" was to stop the Collectors. Easyness with which everyone can be saved is a bad plot/design. It would be even worse design if to have access to a core element of the core ME3 a person must have played another game "this way" and not "that way", two years back...

Wizz wrote...

I just cannot understand why some people sure that we'll start ME3 with full team, max level and full pocket.

It's called "wishful thinking".

[Bourne Endeavor]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The goal of the "suicide mission" was to stop the Collectors. Easyness with which everyone can be saved is a bad plot/design. It would be even worse design if to have access to a core element of the core ME3 a person must have played another game "this way" and not "that way", two years back...

This depends on how the default options of ME3 are. Witht the ease of keeping everyone alive, when can surmise that all deaths excluding perhaps one were of pure intent and therefore the player expected to loss content or have a different experience. There is such a magitude of potential for Bioware to develop angles no RPG in the past decade or two has even touched upon and that is through the squad returning. I agree not everyone will - although I would be elated to see it happen - however to claim no one will is in turn a design flaw.

[Ahriman]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
This depends on how the default options of ME3 are.

As we can see in ME2 default options assume that default Shepard is a moron with pation to killing and destruction. And I doubt that in ME3 it will change, I don't sure that default Shepard even will see any of squadmates from ME2. And please, understand me right, I want to see some of them back, but I don't overestimate Biware's possibilities. They just cannot make 20 squadmates for new and old players.

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Possibly. Day1 DLC, Collectors' Edition, Paid DLC. Isn't Tali worth a few extra bucks?

Dumbest idea ever.  Especially if you accidentally killed her.  Talk about a retcon.

Seriously, is it THAT hard for you to imagine that ONE OR TWO old squadmates will come back?  Really?  Just throwing them away is ******-poor game design.

[Zulu_DFA]

Well, of course, if Tali's dead, no Tali in ME3. If Tali isn't dead she will come back in ME3. In the form of e-mail / cameo / playeable cameo / DLC squadmate. But not a full-time squadmate on disk.

Same goes to any and all ME2 squadmates... God, I'm tired of retyping the OP in every post here!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:21 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I have to agree with Endeavor. This might actually be all easier to figure out if we just knew the default (i.e non-import) story of ME3 in terms of the ME2 squadmates.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Kronner]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seriously, is it THAT hard for you to imagine that ONE OR TWO old squadmates will come back?  Really?  Just throwing them away is ******-poor game design.

Which ones and why?

[Count Viceroy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Same goes to any and all ME2 squadmates... God, I'm tired of retyping the OP in every post here!

Repeating the same thing over and over like a broken record doesn't make this any more likely.

[Zulu_DFA]

Denying the obvious over and over again doesn't make it any less inevitable.

[Count Viceroy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Denying the obvious over and over again doesn't make it any less inevitable.

Ah yes, 'opinions'  We have dismissed that claim.

What do we do now? 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Sereaph502]

What part of trilogy do you not understand?



Bioware isn't going to introduce completely new squadmates, because ME3 will be the LAST episode of Shepard's story. There's no reason to create a brand new cast, background stories, etc because after ME3 Shepard's story is DONE.



Also: Garrus and Tali are in ME1 and ME2, do you honestly think they won't be in ME3? One, for continuity reasons, since they've been with shepard since the beginning. Two, the massive nerdrage that bioware will get if they don't show up as squadmembers in ME3.



Also, I don't understand why you people are assuming they can't do what they did with ME1 -> ME2 being able to scan the importable save game.



The more I see these threads, the more I'm starting to believe the people suggesting this only ever want new. New new new. Can't keep anything from ME1 or 2 because that's OLD. New new new. Want new, no matter how impossible or improbable it is. New.

[Ahriman]

Sereaph502 wrote...

What part of trilogy do you not understand?

Bioware isn't going to introduce completely new squadmates, because ME3 will be the LAST episode of Shepard's story. There's no reason to create a brand new cast, background stories, etc because after ME3 Shepard's story is DONE.

Also: Garrus and Tali are in ME1 and ME2, do you honestly think they won't be in ME3? One, for continuity reasons, since they've been with shepard since the beginning. Two, the massive nerdrage that bioware will get if they don't show up as squadmembers in ME3.

The more I see these threads, the more I'm starting to believe the people suggesting this only ever want new. New new new. Can't keep anything from ME1 or 2 because that's OLD. New new new. Want new, no matter how impossible or improbable it is. New.

You only read the title, didn't you?

Also, I don't understand why you people are assuming they can't do what
they did with ME1 -> ME2 being able to scan the importable save game.

What?

[AdmiralCheez]

Sereaph502 wrote...

What part of trilogy do you not understand?

Bioware isn't going to introduce completely new squadmates, because ME3 will be the LAST episode of Shepard's story. There's no reason to create a brand new cast, background stories, etc because after ME3 Shepard's story is DONE.

Also: Garrus and Tali are in ME1 and ME2, do you honestly think they won't be in ME3? One, for continuity reasons, since they've been with shepard since the beginning. Two, the massive nerdrage that bioware will get if they don't show up as squadmembers in ME3.

Also, I don't understand why you people are assuming they can't do what they did with ME1 -> ME2 being able to scan the importable save game.

The more I see these threads, the more I'm starting to believe the people suggesting this only ever want new. New new new. Can't keep anything from ME1 or 2 because that's OLD. New new new. Want new, no matter how impossible or improbable it is. New.

I don't think it's so much a desire for new squadmates as it is the need to troll and dampen everyone's expectations.  I think there will be at least two new squadmates, but probably no more than six, and that's pushing it.

And yes, nerd rage is a massive factor in Bioware's decisions.

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Denying the obvious over and over again doesn't make it any less inevitable.

It's not "obvious," and no one's in "denial."  I understand that you're trying to get your expectations as low as possible so you won't be let down, but some of us are more realistic.  Obviously, the whole team isn't coming back.  However, programming a possible seventeen cameos and making up to twelve new squadmates is a lot more labor-intensive than reworking a couple and adding maybe two or four new guys.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kronner wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seriously, is it THAT hard for you to imagine that ONE OR TWO old squadmates will come back?  Really?  Just throwing them away is ******-poor game design.

Which ones and why?

Tali and Garrus, probably, since they've got the longest service record and a massive fanbase.  Miranda seems likely as well, due to her loyalty to you if you ditched Cerberus/loyalty to Cerberus if you stuck with them.  You're Grunt's battlemaster, so unless he's needed on Tuchanka, he's got no reason to leave, either.  The Virmire Survivor might be one, too, but they could just as easily fulfill a support role.

I have a  thread discussing the matter if you're interested.  Pardon the shameless self-promotion, but I think a more reasoned exploration of possibilities is preferable to this all-or-none false dichotomy that everyone seems to be pushing.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sereaph502 wrote...
What part of trilogy do you not understand?

ME1 = Squad 1.

ME2 = Squad 2.

ME3 = Squad 3.

***

A. Dumas, the "Three Musketeers" trilogy:

Part One: D'Artagnan, Athos, Porthos & Aramis fight against Cardinal Richelieu's Guard.

Part Two: D'Artagnan & Porthos fight against Athos & Aramis. Only in the second half they reconcile and join forces.

Part Three: Every one is doing his own thing, but Porthos briefly joins Aramis on a team that plays against D'Artagnan's team.

Conclusion: there is no universal rule about how the characters introduced in one part of a "trilogy" should always remain inseparable in later parts. On the contrary, characters' development requires that each charachter led his own life, so to say. This is true more than ever to ME, where character development and interaction with the protagonist is supposed to be non-linear.

However, I do understand that in modern media fan service trumps out the quality of the narrative (like it happened in case of Garrus and Tali in ME2).

However, you guys will understand in time, that logistics trumps out the fan service. That is, including a potentially dead character in the core gameplay is not commercialy sound. Even the VS as a squadmate is a stretch.

However, using a couple of more popular characters to generate additional direct profit is feasible even regardless of their expendable status... This, howerver, also seems moot now, as it's actually unclear which characters will be undeniably more popuar than the others, when ME2 comes to PS3.

***

OK, let's try to put it this way:

NO ME2 SQUAD will be recruitable in ME3 for FREE!

[AdmiralCheez]

@Zulu_DFZ: Your point about Tali and Garrus would be vaid if their romances weren't so remarkably well-written.  While I understand that each character is an individual, completely destroying continuity is unacceptable.  You have no idea how mad I was about Liara, and had not LotSB have been released, I would still be endlessly fussing about it.  In fact, Shadow Broker demonstrates the willingness of Bioware to correct their own mistakes and improve their product whether or not it will turn much of a profit.  Furthermore, your example with the three musketeers actually invalidates your point, since at least two of them were always working together.

I doubt the PS3 release will have much effect on certain character popularity, since the people I talk to who HAVEN'T played ME1 seem to like the same characters, anyway.  For example, my friend agrees that Garrus is the BAMFest BAMF to ever BAMF, and she hadn't even touched the first game.  It's a matter of character writing and presentation, not "Tali is better because she was in ME1 and came back."

About not bothering to include characters that might not even be available to some players: Did you know that in ME1 you could completely skip recruiting Wrex or Garrus?  By God!  Some people may have missed out on all that labor-intensive content!  Bioware shouldn't have even included Wrex at all!

I suppose DLC wouldn't be that bad if it is as high-quality as LotSB, but I don't see the point of having to pay for something I already have.  Really, I would have no problem with your hypothesis even though I disgree with it) if you weren't so goddamn conviced you were right.  All this "you'll see" BS really gets on my nerves.  Is it so hard to admit that what you are saying is little more than your own opinion and predictions?

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Denying the obvious over and over again doesn't make it any less inevitable.

It's not "obvious," and no one's in "denial."  I understand that you're trying to get your expectations as low as possible so you won't be let down, but some of us are more realistic.  Obviously, the whole team isn't coming back. 

I have my ME3 expectaiotions low elsewhere. Of this howerver I'm fairly certain. ME3 squad will be mostly brand new. And that's a good thing.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
However, programming a possible seventeen cameos and making up to twelve new squadmates is a lot more labor-intensive than reworking a couple and adding maybe two or four new guys.

First, not 17 cameos. Liara will be on the squad full-time.

Then, who says that ME3 will need 12 squadmates? It's going to be the last part of the trilogy, the Grand Finale, so it won't need tons of filler content to keep players busy with a "character-driven plot". The poll linked to the OP clearly indicates that over 90% of people prever "fewer squadmates, more interaction" (Quality over quantity, that is, BTW.). So 7-8 squadmates will suffice. One of them is Liara, another one probably Feron. VS is likely, but not guaranteed. Then come the new faces, that are in fact easier to implement properly, than the ME2 squadmates.

Because ME2 squadmates have to many variables in addition to possibly being dead. Tali can be exiled and love Shepard, or be exonerated and hate Shepard. Thane may be very well alive (after the suicide mission, at least) but his son may be lost. Jack can be very loyal (sided with during the catfight) but "non-romanceable" due to that little passionate scene downstairs... Miranda can be not loyal Cerberus b*tch, or very loyal Cerberus traitor...
In other words, it's too a clusterf*ck of possibilities to be put together well if at least some of these characters are to be stuck on the Normandy for another game. There were too many of them in ME2 already. Even when they were mostly new.

[Zulu_DFA]

Re: Garrus.



TSB's dossier indicates that Garrus' own talents are overshadowed by Shepard and probably are not going to come to full potential if he remains on Shepard's team. Am I the only one getting hint here?

[Count Viceroy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Re: Garrus.

TSB's dossier indicates that Garrus' own talents are overshadowed by Shepard and probably are not going to come to full potential if he remains on Shepard's team. Am I the only one getting hint here?

No, it's just your remarkable ability to see things and patterns where there are none.