762 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

McBeath wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Oh. Look. It's this thread again.

-Polite

This

Ssshh.  I got Zulu to actually dicuss this seriously for once.

That's quite an accomplishment.  Seriously. 

-Polite

I remember you arguing a lot with smudboy... what happened to him? Did he get banned? Sorry for going offtopic BTW.

I stopped feeding him. 









Honestly though, I don't know. I doubt he was banned though. But I could be wrong. Maybe he annoyed the wrong guy and got banned. 

-Polite

[Fiery Phoenix]

I will never forget your debates with Smudboy in that one thread, Polite.

That being said, Smud is still here. He just hasn't been active for the past month or so. His profile:

http://social.bioware.com/975570/

[AdmiralCheez]

Comes with being the VS. As long as you don't metagame it, it's fine. I do think that Kaidan should be more natural in that situation, but I stuck with Ashley.

For Lord and Master of Minimal but Meaningful Content, that's not a very satisfying response.  Especially after I demonstrated how much certain characters were developed.  Also, one could also call your intentional skipping of content and killing of certain characters "metagaming" as well, since you are obviously toying with how you know the game operates.

Your choice. Personally I hate long posts, so in a lengthy discussion I cut things down to what I think deserves answering, if the opponent doesn't do it.

You missed the part where I told you to look back at the Star Wars analogy.  I directed you to a point I previously made, and you ignore it.  Again, not a very satisfying response.

And you make pretty damn long posts yourself, good sir.

Like I said: isn't Tali worth a few extra pesos?

If BW wants to go that route, fine, but that is pretty damn cheap of them.

It's one thing to make content skippable, and another to make it unavailable. It's one thing to make a dozen little thingies unavailable and another to make a huge piece of content called "a more interactive squadmate" missing.

People who don't have Xbox Live or a working internet connection have a helluva lot of content unavailable to them.  PS3 owners are missing out on the whole first chapter of the trilogy, with a hokey little comic to compensate for it.

One damn squadmate isn't too much to ask.  And again, said squadmate could very well be available in the default save.  Thus, the only people missing out would be people that killed them off, intentionally for the most part.  You, for example.  You gonna care that you miss out on a couple squadmates when you usually skip half of them, anyway?

Not to mention that people with the default save will always be stuck with the VS of the opposite gender.  What if they wanted a ManShep with Kaidan in one playthrough?  Nope, sorry, gotta go back and play ME1, tough noogies, kid.  Don't have ME1?  Well, damn, better go out and buy it.  A minor issue, I know, but you seem be assuming that the VS will be a squadmate.  You will be restricted to the squadmate of the opposite gender if you didn't play ME1, so there you have it, a whole missing squadmate in roughly half of all new playthoughs.  Talk about wasted resources!  Obviously, neither will return because there are just too many variables!

BTW, I'd never say it's impossible to make 20 squadmates. Only they'd have all about as much dialogue as Garrus sans romance and loyalty mission... Or less.

You and I both know that that's a horrible idea and has nothing to do with the points either one of are making.

1. ME2 is over. ME2 squadmates' time is up.

Liara's the Shadow Broker now.  Her time is up.  Ashley and Kaidan already had their chance, too.  And since, you know, either one can die they'll probably just be cameos, anyway.  Why bother programming Kaidan when less than half the players will even run into him?

2. As BioWare is all about the characters, they are going to just cook a few new ones according to the requirements of the ME3 plot, which won't to be "character driven" if all the questions, mysteries, and "Chekhov's guns" are to be resolved in some other manner than reading unvoiced consoles.

Where was the part where I said ME3 shouldn't be plot driven and have new characters?  How does this support your point, anyway?  "Oh, sweet mother of God!  Zaeed's still a squadmate!  There is no chance in hell we can move the plot forward!"  Pardon me for rolling my eyes.

Well, if you want an advice who to bet on, try Legion. He is the most popular ME2 squadmate, and he is a robot. A good futuristic squad needs a robot. But I would't bet anyway, if I were you.

Actually, Tali's the most popular.  Pity, because I like Legion better.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 21 novembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[AdmiralCheez]

KingDan97 wrote...

]Since when were we running on the assumption that the Mass Effect series was completely planned from the outset? The higher then expected importing is imo a much larger reason to being back old squaddies. Those numbers were being developed from the second ME2 saw it's first user. Meaning that when Bioware was deciding exactly what they would be transferring and how in regards to the import system it would work they were seeing that "Hey, a lot of people are importing their game, they'll be our major user base for ME3!"

Oh right, and what of the people who won't be importing a ME1>ME2>ME3 file, what about those who had only played ME2 and will be wondering "Wait, that blue chick from the game I didn't play is back but I don't get all of my guys?" They'll feel royally screwed and all because Bioware predicted, against all odds, that a majority of their players in the final installment of a single console generation game that no intelligent Gamestop employee would recommend to a first time player would be new consumers.

This is something I've stated before, and honestly, this is my last time chiming in on the matter. Bioware is not punishing those who did not play the previous games by giving me back my old squaddies, they're giving me a bonus. They'd need to make 4 new squaddies if they want to give a fair balance to new players because, as you mentioned, Liara/VS can't die. Considering that ME1 had only 3 squadmates that actually progressed the story in any significant way(Tali/Liara/Garrus) so ME3 will need that many if you want the same level of story.

If you hop into a movie trilogy or start a book series 2/3 of the way through should you be expected to get the same satisfaction out of it as someone who was paying attention from the start and know the characters. Why is that different from games? "Each game was a self contained story" is the common battle cry I hear to combat this but each Harry Potter book could easily be considered a self contained unit, the same could be said of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or and number of different franchises. So, why the hell should games be any different? Should someone who jumped in at Halo 3 have known who Cortana was or why the hell she was on that ship? No.

THIS.  THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.  THANK you for tying this before I had to.  I should kiss you.

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Actually, Tali's the most popular.  Pity, because I like Legion better.

Most surveys I've seen score Garrus, Wrex, Legion and Mordin higher than Tali. 

[AdmiralCheez]

@GodWood:  Really?  HUZZAH!  What a glorious time to be wrong!

[JockBuster]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Most importantly, in an interview about the ME2 feedback "crazy stats" Casey Hudson admitted that the rate of imported characters turned out to be much higher than expected. Which means that while planning out ME2, BioWare simply didn't count on people's caring much about importing characters... Which means the ME2 squadmates were there just for ME2.

And now they know how much we actually care.  Therefore, they will adjust accordingly.

IMHO "importing characters" means YOUR Shepard (class, background etc), VS Kaidan/Ashley, Wrex and/OR Garrus, major decisions (LI, Rachni, Feros, Geth data, etc), PLUS the 500 data points that carry over from ME1 to ME2 and then the 1,000 data points from ME1 + ME2 that carry over to affect ME3.
BW made ME2 a "stand-a-lone" game (for some dumb reason, ie $$$) and did not expect as many who played Mass Effect to import their save games to ME2; ooops. Making ME3 also a stand-a-lone game may turn out to NOT be the best decision for BW/EA. Who is going to play the END of the series with OUT playing the first 2 acts. So for ME3 BW is going to make an "interactive comic" that covers ME1 & ME2 for first time players of ME3; I think not, because THAT would take a huge amount of resources (Ezoo, $$ and TIME).
ME2 was all about recruiting your loyal trusted squad to have at your side in ME3 or not; you can have all 12 survive the SM OR fewer, that is YOUR decision and you will have to "live" with it in ME3 (the "DIRE consequences that CH has mentioned!). I suspect that BW will have dialogue for 11, PLUS the VS Kaidan/Ashley (possible LI), Liara IS the SB now (and wife after the final reaper fight IF ME1 LI?). I do not expect Thane to survive because HE himself says that he does not expect to live that long (less than2 years). Recruiting a new squad would just be dumb and make ME3 a repeat of ME2 and THAT does not move the story forward. Look at ME1 when Shepard is giving his speech, there is Ashley, Garrus and Wrex. The ME1 squad ALL appear in ME2, but Tali and Garrus continue as squadmates, Liara only for LotSB then she becomes the SB, Wrex as a cameo (uniting the Krogan), VS on Horizon but promoted to Commander with the Alliance, David Anderson & Udina (dreck). 

Modifié par JockBuster, 21 novembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[Ahriman]

KingDan97 wrote...
Since when were we running on the assumption that the Mass Effect series was completely planned from the outset? The higher then expected importing is imo a much larger reason to being back old squaddies. Those numbers were being developed from the second ME2 saw it's first user. Meaning that when Bioware was deciding exactly what they would be transferring and how in regards to the import system it would work they were seeing that "Hey, a lot of people are importing their game, they'll be our major user base for ME3!"

Oh right, and what of the people who won't be importing a ME1>ME2>ME3 file, what about those who had only played ME2 and will be wondering "Wait, that blue chick from the game I didn't play is back but I don't get all of my guys?" They'll feel royally screwed and all because Bioware predicted, against all odds, that a majority of their players in the final installment of a single console generation game that no intelligent Gamestop employee would recommend to a first time player would be new consumers.

This is something I've stated before, and honestly, this is my last time chiming in on the matter. Bioware is not punishing those who did not play the previous games by giving me back my old squaddies, they're giving me a bonus. They'd need to make 4 new squaddies if they want to give a fair balance to new players because, as you mentioned, Liara/VS can't die. Considering that ME1 had only 3 squadmates that actually progressed the story in any significant way(Tali/Liara/Garrus) so ME3 will need that many if you want the same level of story.

If you hop into a movie trilogy or start a book series 2/3 of the way through should you be expected to get the same satisfaction out of it as someone who was paying attention from the start and know the characters. Why is that different from games? "Each game was a self contained story" is the common battle cry I hear to combat this but each Harry Potter book could easily be considered a self contained unit, the same could be said of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or and number of different franchises. So, why the hell should games be any different? Should someone who jumped in at Halo 3 have known who Cortana was or why the hell she was on that ship? No.

50% of players imported their saves, you can call it "a lot" but it's only a half. Half of players won't see this additional content. So if you was a developer on which content would you concentratre your work? Content which will be seen by all players or bonues content only for old players?

Weren't Kaiden/Ashley fans screwed in ME2? Again, Bioware is not almighty they cannot make everything for anyone.

Of course fans deserve bonus, but everything has it's limits. When bonus part bigger than main part in 3 times it's strange, don't you think so? 12 old squadmates + 4 (or any other number) new squadmates, does anyone really want this? There is a lack of squadbanter in ME2 not because Bioware is lazy, but because if there was only one banter between every squadmate it would be 132 dialogs.

Did I miss something or in every book we can decide who survives and who not? Let's not complain static and dynamic story. If someone give an example how dead characters appeared in a sequel (sequel of a game of course) it will beat every Zulu's argument.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wizz wrote...

50% of players imported their saves, you can call it "a lot" but it's only a half. Half of players won't see this additional content. So if you was a developer on which content would you concentratre your work? Content which will be seen by all players or bonues content only for old players?

One or two squadmates isn't a ridiculous amount of work.  Sure, it's a lot, but look at how many people never downloaded Kasumi and Zaeed.  Hell, you can even skip Garrus and Wrex in ME1, and in ME2 you can skip a lot of them!  Also, it's possible that the "default" save says that Characters X, Y, and Z survived.  Players who save them all get maybe one or two on top of that, and the people that saved none of them don't get any.  Which, you know, they should expect.  Much fairer than "all or none."

Weren't Kaiden/Ashley fans screwed in ME2? Again, Bioware is not almighty they cannot make everything for anyone.

Oh yes, myself included.  However, we've still got one more game to go.  I have a feeling they will be redeemed.  As for not pleasing everybody, that goes without saying.  However, it's better to please some people than ****** of the majority.

Of course fans deserve bonus, but everything has it's limits. When bonus part bigger than main part in 3 times it's strange, don't you think so? 12 old squadmates + 4 (or any other number) new squadmates, does anyone really want this? There is a lack of squadbanter in ME2 not because Bioware is lazy, but because if there was only one banter between every squadmate it would be 132 dialogs.

Actually, one unique conversation between every squadmate would equal 66 (you forgot to divide by 2).  To shorten that list, consider the elevators in ME1: a lot of those conversations were copy/paste, but they felt unique anyway.  Considering the rest of the stuff they put in the game, it's not much.

But I agree that having the whole old squad back is an unrealistic demand.  However, asking for a few core characters to return is not.  Who those characters are, I'll leave up to Bioware.

Did I miss something or in every book we can decide who survives and who not? Let's not complain static and dynamic story. If someone give an example how dead characters appeared in a sequel (sequel of a game of course) it will beat every Zulu's argument.

Baldur's Gate 2, I believe.  Also, the Lazarus project.  Furthermore, yes, we CAN decide who lives and dies in the Mass Effect series: Virmire, the suicide mission, the council, the geth, the rachni queen, blah de blah blah.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 21 novembre 2010 - 07:56 .

[Ahriman]

Much fairer than "all or none."

Very subjective area, if only 2-3 popular return fans of less popular characters will feel themself abandoned.

(you forgot to divide by 2)

Furthermore, yes, we CAN decide who lives and dies in the Mass Effect
series: Virmire, the suicide mission, the council, the geth, the rachni
queen, blah de blah blah.

It was answer to Harry Potter example.

Baldur's Gate 2, I believe.

Hm, level also was transfered there. Ok you win.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Wizz: Victory! Huzzah! And yes, I know that bringing just a few back would be highly subjective. However, it would be perfectly acceptable if it were explained well in-game. For example, I really wanted Wrex back, and Grunt was a lame replacement, but Wrex is busy being King of the Krogans. I made a little sad face when I realized my favorite character wasn't coming, but his new role is more important than being my sidekick. I was also very disappointed with Liara, but LotSB did a wonderful job fixing that. So in ME3, if Garrus has a damn good reason why he can't come along, so be it. All I need is one old friend from ME2. I don't care if it's frakkin' Jacob. In fact, Jacob would be great, since a return would mean a chance to redeem him for the sloppy writing we all had to deal with.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
All I need is one old friend from ME2. I don't care if it's frakkin' Jacob. In fact, Jacob would be great, since a return would mean a chance to redeem him for the sloppy writing we all had to deal with.

They can even re-use some of his original dialog from ME2.

PUTTIN' UP A BARRIER!

NOTHING CAN TOUCH ME KNOW!

THIS'll TAKE THE HEAT OFF!

etc.

[AdmiralCheez]

Oh man if they did that I would ****** my pants laughing.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

His death scene could be epic.

GUESS THAT BARRIER DIDN'T TAKE THE HEAT OFF... BYE SHEP.  PULL ONE OVER FOR ME.

[AdmiralCheez]

MAKE IT HAPPEN, BIOWARE.

[Elite Midget]

Since Bioware made every ME2 Squadmember killable I strongly believe that they had no intention of any of the ME2 Squadmembers returning to your Squad in ME3. The fact that ME3 takes place atleast a year later only strengthens this belief of mine.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Elite Midget: I already made several points as to why I disagree with this opinion, and so have several others. Please read them. I know it is time-consuming, but simply dropping in and stating your opinion without first making sure that your reasoning wasn't already refuted is rather sloppy.

[KingDan97]

Wizz wrote...

50% of players imported their saves, you can call it "a lot" but it's only a half. Half of players won't see this additional content. So if you was a developer on which content would you concentratre your work? Content which will be seen by all players or bonues content only for old players?

How do we know what that 50% consists of? There could also be old players who did fresh playthroughs after importing to see what that was like, or to romance without "cheating". The number isn't black and white, there are many variables to consider. That's also 50% of one game, ME2 has already sold much better then ME1 ever did so we can assume that number will be significantly higher.

Wizz wrote...


Of course fans deserve bonus, but everything has it's limits. When bonus part bigger than main part in 3 times it's strange, don't you think so? 12 old squadmates + 4 (or any other number) new squadmates, does anyone really want this? There is a lack of squadbanter in ME2 not because Bioware is lazy, but because if there was only one banter between every squadmate it would be 132 dialogs.

Did I claim everyone had to come back? No. Like suggested before there could be a priority chart, that would easily cover it. But you act like that's a lot of ambient dialogue. That's not a long conversation, in fact, it's barely 11 minutes of speaking because each of the lines in ME1 was about 5 sec. That's not a hell of a lot. There was fully fledged conversations in DA:O and those happened almost constantly. And they were 6 or more retorts at a time. For all possible companion conversations.

There are those who shouldn't come back had they survived, DLC companions probably didn't have the kind of user base to warrant it(Well maybe Zaeed because he was free...) , Tali could reasonably become an Admiral with the quarians, Thane may be critical, Mordin may be getting on in age(although I would feel that's kind of a cop out response since him taking a turn for critical in a year seems lame to me), sure, for argument's sake Grunt may be needed by the Krogans(but to what end I have no idea), and maybe Garrus will have something that he needs to do, Samara may need to leave to avoid a confrontation, and Jack may hate you if you screwed up.

Legion, Miranda and Jacob though? No reason. "But Legion needs to lead the Geth!' You outcry, like I have missed some pivotal point of logic. No, they communicate using the FTL comm buoys near instantaneously. The fact that they would all just be reaching consensus and with billions of Geth, a thousand units will not a difference make, Miranda has no where to go, since she resigned from Cerberus if you blew up the base and Jacob well his character was so badly developed that he may have a reason to leave, if they decide to write it in.

In addition they could leave some squadmates alive be default, "But what about those who intentionally killed their entire team!?!" Bioware doesn't need to make an equal opportunity for those who chose to make things worse for themselves, no one does. Why the hell should they get an equivalent experience when they deliberately wrote off those characters.

Wizz wrote...

Did I miss something or in every book we can decide who survives and who not? Let's not complain static and dynamic story. If someone give an example how dead characters appeared in a sequel (sequel of a game of course) it will beat every Zulu's argument.

It doesn't matter if the story is static or dynamic, 2/3 is 2/3. I never suggested that dead characters should reappear, I said that continuity in the end of a story shouldn't be folded to those who didn't care enough to get educated. My point is entirely valid and why you've decided it isn't is beyond me. 

[Ahriman]

How do we know what that 50% consists of? There could also be old
players who did fresh playthroughs after importing to see what that was
like, or to romance without "cheating". The number isn't black and
white, there are many variables to consider. That's also 50% of one
game, ME2 has already sold much better then ME1 ever did so we can
assume that number will be significantly higher.

Because statistic says that 50% of players imported their saves.

Did I claim everyone had to come back? No. Like suggested before there
could be a priority chart, that would easily cover it. But you act like
that's a lot of ambient dialogue. That's not a long conversation, in
fact, it's barely 11 minutes of speaking because each of the lines in
ME1 was about 5 sec. That's not a hell of a lot. There was fully fledged
conversations in DA:O and those happened almost constantly. And they
were 6 or more retorts at a time. For all possible companion
conversations.

Every additional squadmate decreases squad interaction, that's what I was talking about.

There are those who shouldn't come back had they survived, DLC
companions probably didn't have the kind of user base to warrant it(Well
maybe Zaeed because he was free...) , Tali could reasonably become an
Admiral with the quarians, Thane may be critical, Mordin may
be getting on in age(although I would feel that's kind of a cop out
response since him taking a turn for critical in a year seems lame to
me), sure, for argument's sake Grunt may be needed by the Krogans(but to what end I have no idea), and maybe Garrus will have something that he needs to do, Samara may need to leave to avoid a confrontation, and Jack may hate you if you screwed up.

Legion,
Miranda and Jacob though? No reason. "But Legion needs to lead the
Geth!' You outcry, like I have missed some pivotal point of logic. No,
they communicate using the FTL comm buoys near instantaneously. The fact
that they would all just be reaching consensus and with billions of
Geth, a thousand units will not a difference make, Miranda has no where
to go, since she resigned from Cerberus if you blew up the base and
Jacob well his character was so badly developed that he may have a
reason to leave, if they decide to write it in.

In addition they
could leave some squadmates alive be default, "But what about those who
intentionally killed their entire team!?!" Bioware doesn't need to make
an equal opportunity for those who chose to make things worse for
themselves, no one does. Why the hell should they get an equivalent
experience when they deliberately wrote off those characters.

Holy reapers... How many times it must be repeated? Plot reasons aren't matter here, this is a question of development and resources.

It doesn't matter if the story is static or dynamic, 2/3 is 2/3.

No, it does. Shepard, Reapers and Galaxy are static part of trilogy, when squadmates are dynamic part. Book writers haven't to care about all possible alternatives, they can freely insert characters in the mechanism of plot and everyone will have his own particular role.

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Actually, Tali's the most popular. Pity, because I like Legion better.

Actually, Tali isn't the most popular. She's got a big, very devoted and very noisy fanbase, sure. But as soon as you factor in the hatred and "unpopularity", she falls behind Liara, Mordin, Legion and Garrus.

[McBeath]

Ack! This is never going to end until we see some ME3 content release.

Either people like Zulu are right and we live in some magical place where no matter what we do we'll all get the same level of content OR we don't and they'll just punish us for what we did in ME2.

My ME2 import file(which I always use) is pretty "complete". I did all the quests that are importable, made all the choices I wanted to, ect. I've always played that way using that file.

I recently started a "fresh"(non-import) file after seeing this thread AGAIN. Guess what? A non imported file LACKS alot of things that I have in my file. The game assumed that I just did things a certain way and removed(yeah, removed) content from the day. I noticed lots of it because I'm used to seeing it. I am missing certain quests, some characters aren't there(no Parisini quest, Verner, Council, ect).

My point? If I had made an import file like that I would be forced to play without content. There is no Parisini "placeholder", or any of that crap people are always talking about. She just wasn't there. Period. The game was darker for sure without certain choices I made.

For people that never played ME1 they just played the game as it was, they never noticed any of this because they have no frame of referance. Those of us that played the first one got more or less content based on our actions. That seems to be the point of the whole import option after all.

ME3 may very well be that way for the squadmates, like it or not. For those that played the first 2(and it seems to me a very good way to promote purchasing a box set prior to ME3 mind you) you'll get a different experience. For those that didn't bother you'll just get an action/RPG with a cast of X number of NPCs. People who spent time(and more importantly money) will get access to more characters and content.

Fair? Nope, but is charging for DLC content like extra gameplay and characters? Does that give equal access to that content? No, but they do it anyways. I expect the same. They are a business after all, not some charity that exists to provide us all with equal entertainment.

Why oh why does anybody think ME3 will be any different? All we can do is go by what we already have seen from Bioware in the past, not our assumptions of what is "true".

To me the "default" game isn't our imports, but the non-import new game that I talked about above. I would think ME3's will be an game where only Shep lives through the suicide mission and gets a few characters provided early in the game(like in ME2 where we're all alone until TIM gives us a few NPC's). Now, regardless of the fact that we need 2 characters to beat ME2 a "Default" ME3 may just ignore that(since a new player to the franchise doesn't know that!).

I fully expect certain characters to be written out of the game(either by death or whatever) though I would expect some to be available to us(Samara seems destined to leave while Tali would stay for example). Those of us with "bad" imports just lose them, like those with "Default" imports. The rest get "rewarded" with thier content.

So if I beat the game with only Samara and Thane left alive, and import I'll lose them(for thier various plot reasons) but be provided with 2 new characters at the start so I can play. I would expect that we'll get a "cut-scene" like in ME2 that will detail what happened. Maybe Anderson will be talking about our exploits and who survived. I'm sure that the writers will come up with something fiting here.

If I beat the game with Garrus and Tali I'll keep them, plus get my 2 new characters. I get "extra" content than a standard game.

I guess to summerize I think people need to stop regarding the best possible outcome as default, but instead look at it as the bonus stuff. If ME2's "default" cannon story is anything to go by I would expect the same out of ME3 -> A dark story with a lot of dead NPC's in the past to reach that point, but playable none the less. For the fans of the franchise we'll get all that plus more. Just like we did going from ME1 to ME2.

Cheers. McBeath.

EDIT:

Above it talks about focusing on content that only 50%(which is silly since how do we know that?) of players will see instead of making it available to all.  In the game I just started I'm missing lots of little things.  Characters are gone(so all the work into making and scripting all that dialog is too!), quests are missing, shop keepers on the citidel are different.  All the work that the developers, writers and voice actors did is missing for every single player that bought and played only ME2.  I bet a lot of people started getting into Mass Effect due to the second game and since went back to buy the first one, which seems to have been the whole point, Bioware was very vocal about the extra content you'll recieve for doing so.

Cheers.   McBeath.

Modifié par McBeath, 21 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Zulu_DFA]

McBeath wrote...
There is no Parisini "placeholder"

There is, however:

1. Shiala placeholder, aka a noname00 colonist.
2. Wrex placeholder, aka Wreav.
3. Garrus placeholer, aka Garrus.*
4. VS, the placeholder of self.

* What I mean by this, is that, since Garrus could not be killed, and it was no big deal while the whole ME2 was mostly a filler "character driven" fashion show, BioWare allowed themselves to somewhat disregard the continuity of the not recruited in ME1 Garrus.

Disregarding continuity to "bring back" Wrex-like charachters to ME3, which is supposed to be the finale and not a filler intermezzo, seeing that people actually prefer quality over quantity of the squadmates would be an unsound move. So yeah... I've just repeated the OP again.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 novembre 2010 - 07:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I just ask myself; who in their right mind would buy a BioWare game with a big fat THREE next to its name without having played the previous title(s)?

It's almost comical, if you ask me.

[McBeath]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I just ask myself; who in their right mind would buy a BioWare game with a big fat THREE next to its name without having played the previous title(s)?

It's almost comical, if you ask me.

The same shooter loving fans that bought ME2.

What I find comical is the number of fans who were outraged by ME2 when it was released.  It was an unforgivable sin that Bioware did what they did so that they could market the game to more people.  They forget that Bioware is a business. 

Those fans couldn't believe that ME2 featured a "dumbed down" inventory system, simpler skill tree or ammo for our guns.  Bioware did those things, and more, to market the game.

They expected ME2 to be certain things that it wasn't.  They had thier "truths", like people here do, about what it HAD to be.  No if's, and's or but's.  It was going to be THIS.  It wasn't, and they nerd-raged.  Whatever.

Did Bioware care?  Probibly not.  They bought the game.  Maybe they sold it later, traded it in or don't play it much... but they bought it.  As did lots of new players to the franchise.  That's thier bottom line, sales.  They'll do whatever they think is best to ensure sales for ME3.  Maybe they(Bioware) think like the OP, maybe they don't.  

The funniest is that we must have place-holders to either perserve content OR provide us with a certain NPC Turian that will allow us to recruit the whole of the Turian Fleet to fight the Reapers.... like a fleet of giant spaceships intent on our destruction wasn't enough in the first place.  Better get Garrus third cousin(since he's dead) to do it for us!

All we can do is go but what we've seen in the past from them as a company, and wait.  Too many people have thier misconceptions about what ME3 will be.   I'm probibly one of them.  Until that first trailer is released we'll just have to wait.

Cheers.  McBeath.

[McBeath]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Disregarding continuity to "bring back" Wrex-like charachters to ME3, which is supposed to be the finale and not a filler intermezzo, seeing that people actually prefer quality over quantity of the squadmates would be an unsound move. So yeah... I've just repeated the OP again.

Hmm, lots of people would have "perferred" Liara to be a squadmate in ME2, not just in LoTSB.  They wanted her on the disc, not as DLC accessable only for a single mission.   Unsound move?  Most definately... but one that happened regardless. 

Also, how do you know what the preferances of gamers are?  Do you go by those in this forum?  How many copies of ME2 have been purchased compared to the number of registered people here(not to mention those that actually post what they want)?  I for one have no idea, but am willing to guess they represent a small minority of the whole of Mass Effect 2 owners. 

Cheers.  McBeath.