762 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Romances in ME2 were flings.

[SimonTheFrog]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...
This is a solid guess from a game design perspective. Now, how the writers will create explanations about all the squadmates that you estranged or p.o.'ed in ME2 and that they still work for you in ME3 is their job. They kinda made clear from ME1 to ME2 that they'll sacrifice story and consistency for gameplay. So i think they will do this again in ME3.

So, in other words, they'll give us our "expandable dolls" back. That's great. Quantity rules. Solid gameplay. Good thing I killed off them all so I won't get another tour of calibrations.

What about Kelly? Am I to be punished here too by the necessity to feed my own fish, because I suck so much at games?

I still hope for the auto-fish-food-dispenser being invented at about the time between ME2 and ME3. 

But yeah, these "expandable dolls" are making a lot of people very happy. It would be unwise to lose them. You may think otherwise, and i do too for the most part, but that's how it works i think.

[Zulu_DFA]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

these "expandable dolls" are making a lot of people very happy.

Why not give them a new kit then? Plus an option to have fun with the old ones during their cameos?

[Elite Midget]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Why would all 6 of the LIs return if you can only have 1 LI in M2 outside of having a LI in ME1 that you cheated on?

??

Because you are not the only player who bought the game. All 6 are being romanced by people out there. And the conflict between ME1 LI and ME2 LI makes a nice drama in ME3. Or staying faithfull... or whatever. It's good material for the character-designers to work with.

My canon Shepard romanced none of the ME2 flings. >_>

Thane will most likely be dead by ME3... That I just don't see why the Zombie LI of ME2 should return and take up Squadie slots when they can be better represented in cameo roles. It would be better to see how they have grown and changed after the events of ME2 and no longer stuck as Shepard's guns. Especially since ME3 will be taking a time skip of sorts after the events of ME2.

[luakel]

Elite Midget wrote...
My canon Shepard romanced none of the ME2 flings. >_>

Thane will most likely be dead by ME3... That I just don't see why the Zombie LI of ME2 should return and take up Squadie slots when they can be better represented in cameo roles. It would be better to see how they have grown and changed after the events of ME2 and no longer stuck as Shepard's guns. Especially since ME3 will be taking a time skip of sorts after the events of ME2.

But where would they go? Garrus doesn't really have anywhere else to go; I've seen the possibilty of him working with the turians, but from the turian govt.'s POV, he's someone who left their military, left C-Sec twice under unclear circumstances, and has been working in the Terminus Systems off the radar for 2+ years. And I can't see him becoming Archangel again when Shepard's there to fight the Reapers. So if he's not on the Normandy, he's kind of stuck... as even he'll admit, he's not a good turian.

Jacob and Miranda are both still assigned to the SR-2 and have limited options due to the Cerberus connection; I guess they could get reassigned elsewhere, but that's kind of contingent on how happy TIM is with them if the Collector Base went up. Thane wants to do good before he dies and has no one else to go to except his son... plus he deserves an onscreen death if he didn't already die in the SM. Jack could defintitely get bored and take off, but if she was an LI her staying is almost assured. I don't know where she would cameo... she doesn't seem like the type for reunions.

Tali could go back to the fleet, but she also could have been exiled, in which case the Normandy is all she has. And even if you handle her trial in a way that she gets recommended to be an admiral, she doesn't seem very happy with politics at all. The # of outcomes of her loyalty mission makes her ME3 role hard to figure out... but if Bioware kills her to get an easy answer, her fanbase will explode. Not that they should be hostage to what fans want and disregard story as a result, but that would ****** alot of people off. No easy answer here.

I guess the problem is that we only have the ME1-ME2 transition as a precedent, and which characters show up in the finale requires a different set of thinking than which show up in the middle chapter. Sure, Wrex may have been sidelined in ME2, but there's no real reason he would have stayed on Shepard's crew after defeating Saren anyway. Ash & Kaidan definitely would stay, and Liara had reasons mainly if you romanced her; that's why they can all show up in the opening cutscene. But in ME2 you specifically gain the loyalty of each of these people, and very few even mention leaving (Samara is the only one that comes to mind as explicitly mentioning it). The only way to get some of them off the Normandy is to blow it up again. Sure, there's a timeskip, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob and Miranda are assigned to the ship and personally loyal to Shepard, or that Garrus and Tali have little reason to leave the guy they've happily served under not once but twice.

[SimonTheFrog]

Elite Midget wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Why would all 6 of the LIs return if you can only have 1 LI in M2 outside of having a LI in ME1 that you cheated on?

??

Because you are not the only player who bought the game. All 6 are being romanced by people out there. And the conflict between ME1 LI and ME2 LI makes a nice drama in ME3. Or staying faithfull... or whatever. It's good material for the character-designers to work with.

My canon Shepard romanced none of the ME2 flings. >_>

Thane will most likely be dead by ME3... That I just don't see why the Zombie LI of ME2 should return and take up Squadie slots when they can be better represented in cameo roles. It would be better to see how they have grown and changed after the events of ME2 and no longer stuck as Shepard's guns. Especially since ME3 will be taking a time skip of sorts after the events of ME2.

The major point here is still that ME2 was about recruiting people above everything else. So, here we are with that huge team assembled. As I said, it would be unwise to lose all of them after the 10 minutes of fame at the end of ME2. 
People got attached to them. There was a lot of effort put into introducing them to the universe. There's also the necessity of having typical Mass Effect faces in the game to make it feel like it's Mass Effect. I think Garrus and Tali for example have a really high recognition value. So does Thane because he looks like a lemon on the box cover. 
And him dying is just a matter of a writer picking up a pen. Don't you think its possible to come up with a story how Thane is volunteering on being the first patient to try out some new Kepral treatment just being discovered?
Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think there will be a time gap between ME2 and 3? Has that been mentioned somewhere in an interview?

Now about cameo, there's another thought. I mean, Liara is playing a big part in ME2 (+DLC) without being a part of the Normandy. So is she cameo or not? Cameo normally nothing more than one scene and hardly any dialog. Maybe one line or so. Pretty much like VS in ME2. Now, that considered it would be really hard to do have that for a LI worth mentioning. It would require some development (i.e. several states of dialog) again to make it satisfying. So, i don't think BioWare presses the LI into an one liner. But does the LI need to be living on the ship and be pickable for missions? Surely not. Especially as there seems to be no interactions during the missions anyway anymore 

The ME2 had the fling-feeling not because BioWare forgot how to set up LI's but because there were so darn many squaddies. Let's hope they see that as clearly as most players (and critics) do and reduce the number of new characters in favour of more conversation with each. (hmm more conversation with Jacob, too... not sure if that's good or bad )

Edit: you could argue that the game obviously knows who you romanced and that only that specific char will make an appearance in ME3 (ignoring all good reasons for keeping the characters as mentioned above). But if you think about it, Shep does need people to pick for missions. Its how the game works. If they don't recycle the old people they will have to create each and everyone from scratch. And if they have the LI's appear anyway (which means contracting the 6 voice actors, create animations, dialog and everything for each, they would save ALOT of resources if they'd make the the squadmates, too, instead of creating yet another bunch of new people.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[SimonTheFrog]

luakel wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...
snip

But where would they go? Garrus doesn't really have anywhere else to go; I've seen the possibilty of him working with the turians, but from the turian govt.'s POV, he's someone who left their military, left C-Sec twice under unclear circumstances, and has been working in the Terminus Systems off the radar for 2+ years. And I can't see him becoming Archangel again when Shepard's there to fight the Reapers. So if he's not on the Normandy, he's kind of stuck... as even he'll admit, he's not a good turian.

Jacob and Miranda are both still assigned to the SR-2 and have limited options due to the Cerberus connection; I guess they could get reassigned elsewhere, but that's kind of contingent on how happy TIM is with them if the Collector Base went up. Thane wants to do good before he dies and has no one else to go to except his son... plus he deserves an onscreen death if he didn't already die in the SM. Jack could defintitely get bored and take off, but if she was an LI her staying is almost assured. I don't know where she would cameo... she doesn't seem like the type for reunions.

Tali could go back to the fleet, but she also could have been exiled, in which case the Normandy is all she has. And even if you handle her trial in a way that she gets recommended to be an admiral, she doesn't seem very happy with politics at all. The # of outcomes of her loyalty mission makes her ME3 role hard to figure out... but if Bioware kills her to get an easy answer, her fanbase will explode. Not that they should be hostage to what fans want and disregard story as a result, but that would ****** alot of people off. No easy answer here.

I guess the problem is that we only have the ME1-ME2 transition as a precedent, and which characters show up in the finale requires a different set of thinking than which show up in the middle chapter. Sure, Wrex may have been sidelined in ME2, but there's no real reason he would have stayed on Shepard's crew after defeating Saren anyway. Ash & Kaidan definitely would stay, and Liara had reasons mainly if you romanced her; that's why they can all show up in the opening cutscene. But in ME2 you specifically gain the loyalty of each of these people, and very few even mention leaving (Samara is the only one that comes to mind as explicitly mentioning it). The only way to get some of them off the Normandy is to blow it up again. Sure, there's a timeskip, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob and Miranda are assigned to the ship and personally loyal to Shepard, or that Garrus and Tali have little reason to leave the guy they've happily served under not once but twice.

Nah common... it IS FICTION!!! If the writers want the guys to be on the Normandy, the friggin will. If they want them to be somewhere else, they friggin will that too. There is simply no way in hell that arguments like "but in ME2 it looks like character X was about to leave" are worth anything if it comes to creating ME3. Look at all the stuff between ME1 and ME2 that feels forced and railed. 

Anyway... back to topic (sorry)

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

The major point here is still that ME2 was about recruiting people above everything else.
[/quote]
... for the Omega-4 mission and whatever the ulterior motives TIM had when he put them on the list.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So, here we are with that huge team assembled.
[/quote]
Maybe not that huge after the "suicide mission".


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

As I said, it would be unwise to lose all of them after the 10 minutes of fame at the end of ME2. People got attached to them.
[/quote]
Some people. But some people (according to Casey Hudson's statistic, about a half, IIRC) weren't even able to finish the game at least once, one way or another. Not all loyalty missions got completed by everyone who was.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
There was a lot of effort put into introducing them to the universe.
[/quote]
So a lot of effort may be put into re-introducing them to the universe in "3", plus introducing some NPCs who will advance the plot, or a lot of effort may be put into introducing several new squadmates who will advance the plot, plus making nice cameos for the old squadmates. In any case, building a new game takes a lot of effort.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
There's also the necessity of having typical Mass Effect faces in the game to make it feel like it's Mass Effect. I think Garrus and Tali for example have a really high recognition value.[/quote]
Liara has a really high recognition value too, plus she is a blue space babe. Cover character?


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So does Thane because he looks like a lemon on the box cover. 
[/quote]
So does Feron.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

And him dying is just a matter of a writer picking up a pen. Don't you think its possible to come up with a story how Thane is volunteering on being the first patient to try out some new Kepral treatment just being discovered?
[/quote]
Cool story, bro! For a cameo.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think there will be a time gap between ME2 and 3? Has that been mentioned somewhere in an interview?
[/quote]
Because of Retribution, Inquisition, "Big Choices" needing some time to get hold on the Galaxy, Reapers needing some time to screw things up again, and also this.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

Now about cameo, there's another thought. I mean, Liara is playing a big part in ME2 (+DLC) without being a part of the Normandy.[/quote]
Liara is playing a big part because it's always been her destiny. Her mother was running around with Saren, her expertise led Shepard to Ilos in ME1, she got a separate comic series where she saved helpless Commander Shepard, and worked for TIM.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So is she cameo or not? Cameo normally nothing more than one scene and hardly any dialog. Maybe one line or so. Pretty much like VS in ME2.[/quote]
She is not a cameo. She is one of the main cast of the series, second most important character.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

Now, that considered it would be really hard to do have that for a LI worth mentioning. It would require some development (i.e. several states of dialog) again to make it satisfying. So, i don't think BioWare presses the LI into an one liner. But does the LI need to be living on the ship and be pickable for missions? Surely not. Especially as there seems to be no interactions during the missions anyway anymore.

The ME2 had the fling-feeling not because BioWare forgot how to set up LI's but because there were so darn many squaddies.[/quote]
See? You see it too!


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
Let's hope they see that as clearly as most players (and critics) do and reduce the number of new characters in favour of more conversation with each.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
(hmm more conversation with Jacob, too... not sure if that's good or bad)[/quote]
Don't worry. It'll be a cameo.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:42 .

[AdmiralCheez]

For the last time, Zulu, returning characters does not equal loss of depth.



Also, the romances in ME1 were flings, too. I don't recall ever getting the chance to shag Ashley twice...

[luakel]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

The major point here is still that ME2 was about recruiting people above everything else. So, here we are with that huge team assembled. As I said, it would be unwise to lose all of them after the 10 minutes of fame at the end of ME2. 
People got attached to them. There was a lot of effort put into introducing them to the universe. There's also the necessity of having typical Mass Effect faces in the game to make it feel like it's Mass Effect. I think Garrus and Tali for example have a really high recognition value. So does Thane because he looks like a lemon on the box cover. 
And him dying is just a matter of a writer picking up a pen. Don't you think its possible to come up with a story how Thane is volunteering on being the first patient to try out some new Kepral treatment just being discovered?
Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think there will be a time gap between ME2 and 3? Has that been mentioned somewhere in an interview?

Now about cameo, there's another thought. I mean, Liara is playing a big part in ME2 (+DLC) without being a part of the Normandy. So is she cameo or not? Cameo normally nothing more than one scene and hardly any dialog. Maybe one line or so. Pretty much like VS in ME2. Now, that considered it would be really hard to do have that for a LI worth mentioning. It would require some development (i.e. several states of dialog) again to make it satisfying. So, i don't think BioWare presses the LI into an one liner. But does the LI need to be living on the ship and be pickable for missions? Surely not. Especially as there seems to be no interactions during the missions anyway anymore 

The ME2 had the fling-feeling not because BioWare forgot how to set up LI's but because there were so darn many squaddies. Let's hope they see that as clearly as most players (and critics) do and reduce the number of new characters in favour of more conversation with each. (hmm more conversation with Jacob, too... not sure if that's good or bad )

I think the time-skip talk is because Retribution takes place about a year after ME2, but is written more as a setup for ME3 than something happening behind-the-scenes in the game.

Cameos are a very good idea that could be handled for at least some of the LI's, as long as they'd be Wrex-sized at least (no more Horizons). But they'd work better for some characters than others... I think the best way to set up cameos would be to tie them into the plot somehow. This works great with a character like Liara; she's being set up for a major role and you're going to be seeing her alot regardless of romance, so if you romanced her then you just get extra content whenever you drop by the base. But they would work alot less for others; how's Thane going to be relevant to the main plot? How's Garrus? With them, you'd be going out of your way to random parts of the galaxy just to meet up with them. Having them on the Normandy seems easier; that way you're not dropping by Omega after every story mission just to arrive, have LI-exclusive content with Jack, then leave to go fight the Reapers some more.

I do agree that there need to be less characters and more content... but no one can agree which old characters could show up (even if they're not in the "no one returns" or "everyone returns" camps). I guess Bioware has access to data from save files if they were able to tell how many were carried over, so they could look at who survives the SM most often, who the most popular LIs are, etc. Even then there'd be alot of angry fans if their favorite character get relegated to a cameo whereas one that they hate gets to stay on the Normandy. Although making a good game should be alot more important than avoiding nerd rage. Not that the two are naturally opposed, but pissing off the Jacob fans may be a bit less risky than incurring the wrath of the Talimance.

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Nah common... it IS FICTION!!! If the writers want the guys to be on the
Normandy, the friggin will. If they want them to be somewhere else,
they friggin will that too. There is simply no way in hell that
arguments like "but in ME2 it looks like character X was about to leave"
are worth anything if it comes to creating ME3. Look at all the stuff
between ME1 and ME2 that feels forced and railed. 

Anyway... back to topic (sorry)

What? There's nothing forced between ME1 and ME2! Just look at how much Garrus changes based on what you taught him in the fi- oh, right, he's Archangel anyway. Well, at least the Council still acknowledges the Reaper threat if you saved them, they did in the end of ME1 after all... except they don't. <_< Oh well, it could be worse. It's not like they killed off the main character and brought him/her back or anything, that wouldn't fit into what we know about the Mass Effect universe at all!

Wait...

In all seriousness, I know that Bioware can retcon whatever they want, but hey, some retcons are easier than others. And if Samara talks about leaving after the Collectors are defeated, she could easily come back as a squadmate, but it makes it a bit less likely for her to randomly be on the Normandy at the beginning of ME3.  This is in opposite to, say, Garrus, who has screwed his life up pretty thoroughly and doesn't have much else to do besides follow Shepard.

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

For the last time, Zulu, returning characters does not equal loss of depth.

If the returnin character is Conrad Verner, it definitely does.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Also, the romances in ME1 were flings, too. I don't recall ever getting the chance to shag Ashley twice...

Whatever. It's called sub-plot for a reason.

[Elite Midget]

The main point of ME2 was to gather a Suicide Squad to defeat the Collectors. Characters like Zaeed and Samara blantly tell you that once the Collectors are dealt with they 'will' leave you. Than there's the illness which Thane is suffering... And the fact many of the other characters have more than one fate in ME2.

Here's what I predict for the Squadies of the Suicide Squad in ME3 and what they'll be doing as they are no longer members of Shepards Squad how many years later that ME3 takes place after ME2.

Samara: Back to being a Justiscar since she no longer needs to serve Shepard, dead via Morinth, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Morinth: Causing chaos in the Universe, dead via Samara, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Tali: Back on the Migrant Fleet as an Admiral, Exiled(Though she may return anyway after they go through her father's stuff) or suicide over father's honor, continues her research on dieing stars, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Garrus: Rejoins C-Sec again/Officially joins as a Spectre, returns to the Turian homeworld as an agent under orders of Shepard, serves as the 'Hand of Shepard' and deals with problems of Shepard's across the Universe while Shepard distances themselfs from said problems, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Mordin: Working on making the Genophage a non-Baby Killing Virus, returns to his Clinic or STG, dead from old age, dead via Suicide Mission.
Grunt: Returns to Tuchanka as the Champion of Clan Urdnot or dead via Suicide Mission.
Thane: Dead from Illness or dead via Suicide Mission.
Miranda: Remains with Cerberus and TIM assigns her as head of the Collector Ship Research Division, if base is destroyed she defects to Andersan or watches over her sister since TIM will desire revenge for her betrayal, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Jacob: Remains a Cerberus Operative under Miranda, if base is destroyed he rejoins the Alliance or defects to Andersan, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Jack: Continues hunting those that harmed her and tracking down the 'Rogue' Cerberus Operative involved in experiments that caused the same harm to her upon others, If romanced she begins searching for others who Cerberus has harmed and attempts to help them(Maybe even start an Orphanage since Cerberus enjoys using children for experiments), or dead via Suicide Mission.
Legion: Returns to the Geth over what occured in ME2, still trying to break free from Cerberus, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Zaeed: Returns to work as a Mercenary and maybe retakes the Blue Suns as his own, dead via loyalty mission, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Kasumi: Leaves Shepard and vanishes with the Graybox, decides to pursue a romance with Jacob, or dead via Suicide Mission.

Than there are the ME1 Squadies...

Wrex: Has united even more of the Clans under his banner and swears that the Krogan will support Shepard or dead via ME1.
Kaiden/Ashley: Still an Alliance Warhero though may eventually rejoin Shepard as an ally or a plant placed by Andersan to track Shepard's movements.
Liara: As the SB and her rejoining seems very unlikely... She would be a far better aid to Shepard's cause as the SB Full Time.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[AdmiralCheez]

[quote]... for the Omega-4 mission and whatever the ulterior motives TIM had when he put them on the list.[/quote]

And the only reason you recruited the original squad was to stop Saren.

[quote]Maybe not that huge after the "suicide mission".[/quote]

Only if you make poor decisions or intentionally snuff people.

[quote]Some people. But some people (according to Casey Hudson's statistic, about a half, IIRC) weren't even able to finish the game at least once, one way or another. Not all loyalty missions got completed by everyone who was.[/quote]

The longer the game is out, the more people will beat it, and the more content they will explore.

[quote]So a lot of effort may be put into re-introducing them to the universe in "3", plus introducing some NPCs who will advance the plot, or a lot of effort may be put into introducing several new squadmates who will advance the plot, plus making nice cameos for the old squadmates. In any case, building a new game takes a lot of effort.[/quote]

Of course building a new game takes effort!  However, getting a new player up to speed is a lot easier than you think.

[quote]Liara has a really high recognition value too, plus she is a blue space babe. Cover character?[/quote]

The cover will probably go to two new characters.

[quote]So does Feron.[/quote]

Thane has more fans and a great role in the story.  Feron spent two years getting electrocuted in an expensive side quest.

[quote]Cool story, bro! For a cameo.[/quote]

The same could be said for your whole damn thread.

[quote]Because of Retribution, Inquisition, "Big Choices" needing some time to get hold on the Galaxy, Reapers needing some time to screw things up again, and also this.[/quote]

Zulu, your theory is nice, but about as verifiable as "the whole team is going to be recruitable again."

[quote]Liara is playing a big part because it was her destiny. Her mother was running around with Saren, her expertise led Shepard to Ilos in ME1, she got a separate comic series where she saves helpless Commander Shepard, and works for TIM.[/quote]

The same could be said about Tali, Garrus, and Wrex.  Tali's data helped them prove Saren had gone rogue, her AI expertise was useful in fighting the geth, and her research on dark energy is screaming Chekov's Gun.

TIM's getting a comic, too.  Is HE gonna be a squaddie?

[quote]She is not a cameo. She is one of the main cast of the series, second most important character.[/quote]

Says you.  Personally, I think Joker's "second most important."  After all, any other pilot would have gotten them killed on Ilos or toasted beyond the Omega 4 relay.

[quote]See? You see it too![/quote]

I saw it in ME1...

[quote]My thoughts exactly.[/quote]

Your thoughts are that there will be no recruitable ME2 characters.  I don't think a single person here wants a large but shallow cast.  False correlation.

[quote]Don't worry. It'll be a cameo.[/quote]

Says you.

Anyway, class time.  I'll be back.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[SimonTheFrog]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

The major point here is still that ME2 was about recruiting people above everything else.
[/quote]
... for the Omega-4 mission and whatever the ulterior motives TIM had when he put them on the list.

[/quote]

Yes, for the story. But i didn't mean the story, i meant the gameplay. Gathering people and making them friends with Shepard only was in the game because BioWare wanted the player to have all sorts of interesting characters and personal stories. The have a personal connection to the universe. People are not moved by politics or great military schemes but by personal fates of people they know a lot about. (well i'm sure there are examples for the other stuff too but i mean, generally).
So, BioWare decided to stress the emotional impact of the game. This is why i think that recruiting was the major point. And this is why the people we recruited are material worth keeping (i don't mean i DO want to keep them, but it makes sense for the emotional bond to the trilogy, is what i mean).

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So, here we are with that huge team assembled.
[/quote]
Maybe not that huge after the "suicide mission".

[/quote]

It would be interesting to know how many squaddies survived on average (among the runs that actually reached the credits).

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

As I said, it would be unwise to lose all of them after the 10 minutes of fame at the end of ME2. People got attached to them.
[/quote]
Some people. But some people (according to Casey Hudson's statistic, about a half, IIRC) weren't even able to finish the game at least once, one way or another. Not all loyalty missions got completed by everyone who was.

[/quote]

Those players are either buying ME3 or not... but they are surely not as decisive for its content in comparison to the ones that DID finish it. I mean, they surely made clear that they either don't care or don't like the game at all. So, the only way to get them on board would probably be a total reboot of the main ME features and thusly alienating all other players.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

There was a lot of effort put into introducing them to the universe.
[/quote]
So a lot of effort may be put into re-introducing them to the universe in "3", plus introducing some NPCs who will advance the plot, or a lot of effort may be put into introducing several new squadmates who will advance the plot, plus making nice cameos for the old squadmates. In any case, building a new game takes a lot of effort.
[/quote]

Sure it does, but why not be clever about it. If there are ways to have a lot of content for a lot less money and still make it so that many players will be enjoying it, then this seems like a good idea. What you are suggesting is more expensive and therefore will the reduce the game on some other point, maybe in length or less planets to scan... 

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
There's also the necessity of having typical Mass Effect faces in the game to make it feel like it's Mass Effect. I think Garrus and Tali for example have a really high recognition value.[/quote]
Liara has a really high recognition value too, plus she is a blue space babe. Cover character?
[/quote]

Yes! ME covers feature always several people (to underline the complexity of the universe with its NPC interactions and the squad based mission design). Asari would be a good cover feature, but so would other characters the player already knows. And i'm not just talking about the game box, i talk about videos and the whole marketing machine. You want the player to have the feeling that he can trust BioWare to deliver a "true" Mass Effect experience. If you have yet another bunch of unknown characters people are less willing to believe it's still the old universe they grew fond of (i think ME2 was pretty risky there already). 

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So does Thane because he looks like a lemon on the box cover. 
[/quote]
So does Feron.
[/quote]

Indeed, but like i said... (apart from that i think Feron looks even better with his rainbow colored face).

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

And him dying is just a matter of a writer picking up a pen. Don't you think its possible to come up with a story how Thane is volunteering on being the first patient to try out some new Kepral treatment just being discovered?
[/quote]
Cool story, bro! For a cameo.
[/quote]

Not the point! The point was that ingame arguments are not really valid as long as we actually KNOW that BioWare bends the universe at their will...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think there will be a time gap between ME2 and 3? Has that been mentioned somewhere in an interview?
[/quote]
Because of Retribution, Inquisition, "Big Choices" needing some time to get hold on the Galaxy, Reapers needing some time to screw things up again, and also this.
[/quote]

kk, that does make sense.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

Now about cameo, there's another thought. I mean, Liara is playing a big part in ME2 (+DLC) without being a part of the Normandy.[/quote]
Liara is playing a big part because it's always been her destiny. Her mother was running around with Saren, her expertise led Shepard to Ilos in ME1, she got a separate comic series where she saved helpless Commander Shepard, and worked for TIM.
[/quote]

Yes, i was using her simply as an example to question the term "cameo". I mean, how it's used here and whether or not people mean the same thing when they use it.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

So is she cameo or not? Cameo normally nothing more than one scene and hardly any dialog. Maybe one line or so. Pretty much like VS in ME2.[/quote]
She is not a cameo. She is one of the main cast of the series, second most important character.
[/quote]

If you don't have the DLC her screen-time is pretty short, though. It's not much more than Parasini, for example, and she's certainly considered as cameo. Just saying, i was referring to the word cameo, not the plot-significance of certain characters.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote..
[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

snip...

so darn many squaddies.[/quote]
See? You see it too!

snip...


[/quote]

I have a lot of hopes and wishes for ME3, i just don't think they will reduce all ME2-squaddies to one-liner appearances. Again, i'm not saying they all will be pickable for missions, but at least the 6 LI-squaddies will certainly have more screen-time than a Parasini for example. At least if my reckoning is correct. Which is as good as anyone elses, of course.

Edit, oh crap the layout is horrible ^^ sorry about that.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Elite Midget]

Where are you getting the one-liner thing from? Wrex had a short cameo but he wasen't a one-liner one and his hug was better than all of the ME2 Romances combined.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...



[quote]... for the Omega-4 mission and whatever the ulterior motives TIM had when he put them on the list.[/quote]And the only reason you recruited the original squad was to stop Saren.
[/quote]
Right. Did you see much Tali on the SR-1 in the ME2 intro?


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...


[quote]Maybe not that huge after the "suicide mission".[/quote]Only if you make poor decisions or intentionally snuff people.
[/quote]
Irrelevant. And it was actually harder work to get all hands killed or only specific hands, with all the loyalty missions done, than save 'em all. So I demands moar cookie, than you!


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...


[quote]Some people. But some people (according to Casey Hudson's statistic, about a half, IIRC) weren't even able to finish the game at least once, one way or another. Not all loyalty missions got completed by everyone who was.[/quote]The longer the game is out, the more people will beat it, and the more content they will explore?
[/quote]
Are you serious? The millions who made the income for EA/Bioware have long since moved on.

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
Of course building a new game takes effort!  However, getting a new player up to speed is a lot easier than you think.[/quote]
I don't care much for the new player actually... Much less than EA/BioWare, it seems. All I care is continuity. Exiled Tali =/= betrayed Tali. Loyal Legion =/= Legion who lost loyalty during the catfight. Not romanced Jack =/= Jack dumped for Miranda...

Besides, all characters have not only fans, but haters. And it's easier to explain to a player why he has to put up with a brand new Batarian terrorist squaddie (any story reason), than with the annoying bucket-headed space gypsy, whom he'd kept alive only to prolong her misery.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]Liara has a really high recognition value too, plus she is a blue space babe. Cover character?[/quote]The cover will probably go to two new characters.
[/quote]
Or not.

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]So does Feron.[/quote]Thane has more fans and a great role in the story.  Feron spent two years getting electrocuted in an expensive side quest.[/quote]
Irrelevant. Thane is killable and dying anyway. Feron is alive and kicking, Liara's buddy, helped save Shepard once.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...


[quote]Cool story, bro! For a cameo.[/quote]The same could be said for your whole damn thread.
[/quote]
So are you saying it, or are you not?



[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...


[quote]Because of Retribution, Inquisition, "Big Choices" needing some time to get hold on the Galaxy, Reapers needing some time to screw things up again, and also this.[/quote]Zulu, your theory is nice, but about as verifiable as "the whole team is going to be recruitable again."
[/quote]
78% like the "interrogation" idea. Couple it with this thread's poll and you'll get the minimum of roughly 2/3 of people favoring "Interrogation resulting in smaller, more interactive squad" type of ME3.



[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]Liara is playing a big part because it was her destiny. Her mother was running around with Saren, her expertise led Shepard to Ilos in ME1, she got a separate comic series where she saves helpless Commander Shepard, and works for TIM.[/quote]The same could be said about Tali, Garrus, and Wrex. [/quote]
It could be said, and it would be false. Their mothers weren't running around with Saren in a Reaper's belly, and they weren't working for Cerberus to save Commader Shepard from the Collectors, and they didn't pursue and replace the shadow Broker.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
 Tali's data helped them prove Saren had gone rogue, her AI expertise was useful in fighting the geth, and her research on dark energy is screaming Chekov's Gun.[/quote]
First, "Chekhov".
Secondly, Gianna Parasini is on the Dark Energy too. So what?


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
TIM's getting a comic, too.  Is HE gonna be a squaddie?
[/quote]
He doesn't need to be a squaddie to be more important a character, than any squaddie, including even Liara. The point is: squaddies as such are small time characters. Garrus had 11 of them, and 8 of them died "off screen" for him!


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...



[quote]She is not a cameo. She is one of the main cast of the series, second most important character.[/quote]Says you.  Personally, I think Joker's "second most important."  After all, any other pilot would have gotten them killed on Ilos or toasted beyond the Omega 4 relay.[/quote]
Since Joker is not a squaddie, I can give him in to you... BTW, check the OP. I was proposing to have him join the ME3 squad a while back!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Elite Midget wrote...

Where are you getting the one-liner thing from? Wrex had a short cameo but he wasen't a one-liner one and his hug was better than all of the ME2 Romances combined.

Wrex' screentime was very limited and what he talked about was his plans to unite the krogans (a.k.a. lore). The personal conversation was about one line. 

Also, i was referring to the VS. And Liara before DLC. Don't nit-pick the "one"-line. What it means is that there is no development through several dialog blocks and hardly any personal interaction at all, just a few dialogs of situational data. 

Anyway... may that be as it is, i think Shiala will have a cameo, the rachni queen or Sidonis and such people. And according to my guess Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara, Mordin and Grunt, too. But the others get prolonged interactions, whether as pickups for missions or Liara-style interaction with lengthy missions attached i don't know or care.

Edit, frogot poor Legion: another cameo candidate

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:12 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Gathering people and making them friends with Shepard only was in the game because BioWare wanted the player to have all sorts of interesting characters and personal stories. The have a personal connection to the universe. People are not moved by politics or great military schemes but by personal fates of people they know a lot about. (well i'm sure there are examples for the other stuff too but i mean, generally).
So, BioWare decided to stress the emotional impact of the game. This is why i think that recruiting was the major point. And this is why the people we recruited are material worth keeping (i don't mean i DO want to keep them, but it makes sense for the emotional bond to the trilogy, is what i mean).

Or maybe BioWare simply found themselves in a tricky situation of the middle of a trilogy with the "Big Choices" concept... The main story was put on hold and made very litlle progress over the course of ME2 so that all the main caliber revelation bombs would be kept for the final part. Hence, the "character driven plot".

SimonTheFrog wrote...
It would be interesting to know how many squaddies survived on average (among the runs that actually reached the credits).

No sh!t.

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Those players are either buying ME3 or not... but they are surely not as decisive for its content in comparison to the ones that DID finish it. I mean, they surely made clear that they either don't care or don't like the game at all. So, the only way to get them on board would probably be a total reboot of the main ME features and thusly alienating all other players.

ME2 was such a total reboot, alienated a lot of ME1 fans (including me). Still I heard it was a success (and I'm still here).

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Sure it does, but why not be clever about it. If there are ways to have a lot of content for a lot less money and still make it so that many players will be enjoying it, then this seems like a good idea. What you are suggesting is more expensive and therefore will the reduce the game on some other point, maybe in length or less planets to scan... 

You can't make even a remotely educated guess as to what's more expensive and what's less. Neither can I. But as you've still tried to make it, here is my pathetic attempt too: no, my method is less expensive!

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Indeed, but like i said... (apart from that i think Feron looks even better with his rainbow colored face).

In the US I think it was Grunt instead of Thane on the box, BTW.

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Not the point! The point was that ingame arguments are not really valid as long as we actually KNOW that BioWare bends the universe at their will...

That's true.

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Again, i'm not saying they all will be pickable for missions, but at least the 6 LI-squaddies will certainly have more screen-time than a Parasini for example.

Sadly, that's most probably true. I would trade half of ME2&3 squadmates for a better Parasini cameo, but alas.

[Bourne Endeavor]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. Stopping the Collectors.
2. Working for Cerberus.
3. Replacing the Shadow Broker.
4. Fun.
5. "Fluent shooter gameplay" & "addictive planet scanning".[/quote]

You neglected to mention how this makes Mass Effect 2 relevant in any way. The game in no way advances the Reaper plotline and ironically concludes at the precise same point as its predecessor. The Collectors were marginal and your depiction regulates the game to an over glorified side quest.

1. Irrelevant.
2. Irrelevant.
3. Potentially irrelevant.
4. Could be accomplished with relevance.
5. Merely your attempt to add another listing, as this is essentially #4.

If your scenario is correct, I would toss away ME2 and nothing in Me3 will have made any significant change. Despite this, you are so readily convinced Liara will return as a squad mate when the DLC provides more insinuation she will not if anything at all. The only vague underline tidbit we receive is when Shepard replays, "Come back soon." Could it be a subtle hint or my reading too much into the content? All the same, it is speculation and there is certainly more compiling angles to suggest ME2's squad will return over ME's.

[quote]Elite Midget wrote...

The main point of ME2 was to gather a Suicide Squad to defeat the Collectors. Characters like Zaeed and Samara blantly tell you that once the Collectors are dealt with they 'will' leave you. Than there's the illness which Thane is suffering... And the fact many of the other characters have more than one fate in ME2.

Here's what I predict for the Squadies of the Suicide Squad in ME3 and what they'll be doing as they are no longer members of Shepards Squad how many years later that ME3 takes place after ME2.[/quote]

Some of your conclusions simply are illogical from what we have witnessed thus far in the game. The sole exception I suppose could be if years went by and I mean more than a couple. Nonetheless, I shall dive into each one because I can agree with some.

[quote]Samara: Back to being a Justiscar since she no longer needs to serve Shepard, dead via Morinth, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Morinth: Causing chaos in the Universe, dead via Samara, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Probable given her status as a Justicar. One could just as easily spin this in the opposite direction by saying combating the Reapers is the ultimate act of justice. She, herself, could use this rationalization to remain with Shepard to sidestep the code. Another angle could see Samara as an enemy, especially for a Renegade Shepard, and that is an angle I must concede I am fascinated by.

[quote]Tali: Back on the Migrant Fleet as an Admiral, Exiled(Though she may return anyway after they go through her father's stuff) or suicide over father's honor, continues her research on dieing stars, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

... suicide over her father's lost honor? Really? If this is not the definition of lazy writing, I cannot fathom Bioware's bottom end. Fortunately, I have far more faith their abilities to avoid such horrendously pathetic cop outs. I would love to know when Tali even remotely exhibits suicidal tendencies. Frankly, I hope I misread your post because this is awful even as a side option.

Moving again, Tali stated in Mass Effect service on the Admiralty Board is not hereditary and she was unlikely to succeed her father. She is also frequently referred to as Tali'Zorah vas Normandy and Tali herself claims Shepard is her commander. She only leaves you in the first because Shepard dies. If Samara's claim to leave Shepard is what you use to write her off, I can equally use Tali's wanting to stay as evidence she will return. If nothing else, she has displayed no political savvy nor military prowess that would suggest she would be chosen to serve on the Board.

[quote]Garrus: Rejoins C-Sec again/Officially joins as a Spectre, returns to the Turian homeworld as an agent under orders of Shepard, serves as the 'Hand of Shepard' and deals with problems of Shepard's across the Universe while Shepard distances themselfs from said problems, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Captain Anderson states the Spectres have become irrelevant since the Geth invasion and their imposing fear the once garnered, minimal. Shepard was only granted Spectre status as decor, therefore why would Garrus care? As for rejoining C-Sec, he has stated profusely how much he abhors C-Sec yet would leave Shepard to work for them? This is not a RTS game wherein we send diplomats to secure allies and even if it were, Garrus would not be who I would choose. He is no diplomat nor would be likely convince the Turians to raise with Shepard. They would move on orders of the Citadel or if attacked. Once again this is simply writing a character out for the sake of it and not particularly good writing neither. Bioware is better than this.

[quote]Mordin: Working on making the Genophage a non-Baby Killing Virus, returns to his Clinic or STG, dead from old age, dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Possible or he could be necessary for combating the Reapers, perhaps with minimalizing indoctrination. It could go either way.

[quote]Grunt: Returns to Tuchanka as the Champion of Clan Urdnot or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Or remains because Shepard is his Battle Master and is about to engage in the biggest fight of their lives. Krogans have a tendency to like fighting.
[quote]Thane: Dead from Illness or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

While I agree this is a definite possibility. Mordin may develop a cure.

[quote]Miranda: Remains with Cerberus and TIM assigns her as head of the Collector Ship Research Division, if base is destroyed she defects to Andersan or watches over her sister since TIM will desire revenge for her betrayal, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

... wait, so if we destroy the Collector base, wherein Miranda quits Cerberus, decides to leave the most advanced ship in the galaxy, alongside ample support from Shepard. To go and jeopardize her sister's safety due to the likelihood of a Cerberus pursuit and impose on her normal life, despite the fact Miranda's loyalty mission is specifically designed against doing everything you just said?

You must have played a different Mass Effect 2 than I did because like her or not, she was never this incompetent. If this is the case, I hope the cameo allows me to put a bullet in her head to put the poor thing out of her misery.

[quote]Jacob: Remains a Cerberus Operative under Miranda, if base is destroyed he rejoins the Alliance or defects to Andersan, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

... seriously, go back and check your copy of this game because I believe it may be defective. Either that or you skipped at least half the story. First, Jacob specifically states his dislike of the Alliance. Second, the Alliance has never been to fond of Cerberus, why would they retain an operative, especially one who defected? Third, when did Anderson ever defect and why would he? Granted, I have not read the novels, so unless there is a surprise there... you are making things up.

[quote]Jack: Continues hunting those that harmed her and tracking down the 'Rogue' Cerberus Operative involved in experiments that caused the same harm to her upon others, If romanced she begins searching for others who Cerberus has harmed and attempts to help them(Maybe even start an Orphanage since Cerberus enjoys using children for experiments), or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Because Jack has the mental stability to help anyone? Mate, crying during sex is not the equivalent of therapy. Beyond that, there are no "Rogue" Cerberus operatives. Did you miss the portion where her loyalty mission more or less claims they all died? Hell the entire point of the aforementioned was for her to find a degree of closure. Once again your concept negates canon.

[quote]Legion: Returns to the Geth over what occured in ME2, still trying to break free from Cerberus, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

This is plausible on a less than likely scale. At least it is logical, unlike other speculations. He could just as easily remain to combat the Reapers under the notion they will attempt to use the Geth once again.

[quote]Zaeed: Returns to work as a Mercenary and maybe retakes the Blue Suns as his own, dead via loyalty mission, or dead via Suicide Mission.
Kasumi: Leaves Shepard and vanishes with the Graybox, decides to pursue a romance with Jacob, or dead via Suicide Mission.[/quote]

Being DLC, these two are the only ones I would say are extremely unlikely to return in anything beyond a cameo. I suppose due to their limited exposure, they might be the easiest to port however it does seem unlikely.

[quote]Than there are the ME1 Squadies...

Wrex: Has united even more of the Clans under his banner and swears that the Krogan will support Shepard or dead via ME1.[/quote]

Already created a scenario where Wrex could return and have posted a summarized version a page or so back. Nonetheless, I would be astonished if Wrex was a squad mate again.

[quote]Kaiden/Ashley: Still an Alliance Warhero though may eventually rejoin Shepard as an ally or a plant placed by Andersan to track Shepard's movements.[/quote]

... okay Anderson's betrayal better he in that Mass Effect novel otherwise you are close to trolling. If it is not, and Wiki does not suggest he is backstabbing, than where in the world is this delusion coming from? Intriguing though have Ash/Kaidan could return in your little list despite not appeasing those who liked only ME2 and had limited exposure to ME.

[quote]Liara: As the SB and her rejoining seems very unlikely... She would be a far better aid to Shepard's cause as the SB Full Time.[/quote]

This I agree upon, although Zulu seems to believe adamantly Bioware is paving the way for her return.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:19 .

[McBeath]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or maybe BioWare simply found themselves in a tricky situation of the middle of a trilogy with the "Big Choices" concept... The main story was put on hold and made very litlle progress over the course of ME2 so that all the main caliber revelation bombs would be kept for the final part. Hence, the "character driven plot".

I feel that the entire point of ME2 was to recruit a team.  The story was put on hold so that we could spend time gathering a team of NPC's, make them loyal, and dive into the final part of the game. 

It had nothing to due to the problems faced by the developers or writers, but was intentional so that we could free up that time in ME3.  ME1 took care of recruitment early in the game, with most of your party there before you even leave the Citidel, but it was really rushed.  I think ME2 did a much better job of allowing us to earn the loyalty and trust of our team-mates, something I feel will pay off in ME3.

I have no doubt that new NPC's will be introduced, though I think they will be in the minority.  Why?

Well, all we really need to drive the plot forward are 1-2 characters that appear in the cutscenes.  Miranda/Jacob and Mordin did this in ME2, with EDI and Joker as well(though the last 2 always survive the end of ME2).  With a few new or non-ME2 characters placed in game that function is taken care of.

I see this as being Ashley/Kaiden and perhaps a new character.  They get placed there very early in game and in between missions fill us in on what we as players need to know.  Every other character has no function plot wise, all they do is have interchangable dialog during missions or talk when we as players initiate dialog with them on the Normandy.  If they're dead, they just aren't on the Normandy and another character will speak during missions.

Otherwise all an NPC does is provide us with skills and abilities in combat that we don't have.  The current characters are designed to allow our Shepards to tackle and problems we can't handle alone.   Why you so strongly think that Bioware will waste 10-20 hours of gameplay to redue the recruitment of a team is beyond me. I think it has more to due with your dislike of those characters as opposed to actually thinking it is necessary. 
I think that a strong fanbase for many of those characters will ensure the return of them.  There are ones who aren't popular, and it's those I see as being written out so that a few new characters can take thier place and fill the positions of plot driving characters described above.

McBeath.

Modifié par McBeath, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:28 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


You can't make even a remotely educated guess as to what's more expensive and what's less. Neither can I. But as you've still tried to make it, here is my pathetic attempt too: no, my method is less expensive!

Aye, fair enough. But creating the models and animate them (+plus run through several quality checks and focus groups) is surely expensive. So, the more they have to do that, the more expensive it gets.
Hence the lack of fauna, female versions of aliens and a femshep that moves like a women in ME2.

That's why recycling some of the old crew frees some budget for other stuff. Beside the emotional gain of such an enterprise (for some, not for all, i understand that, but for some ^^).

I don't think this reasoning is very esoteric or wildly guessed.

[SimonTheFrog]

McBeath wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or maybe BioWare simply found themselves in a tricky situation of the middle of a trilogy with the "Big Choices" concept... The main story was put on hold and made very litlle progress over the course of ME2 so that all the main caliber revelation bombs would be kept for the final part. Hence, the "character driven plot".

I feel that the entire point of ME2 was to recruit a team.  The story was put on hold so that we could spend time gathering a team of NPC's, make them loyal, and dive into the final part of the game. 

It had nothing to due to the problems faced by the developers or writers, but was intentional so that we could free up that time in ME3.  ME1 took care of recruitment early in the game, with most of your party there before you even leave the Citidel, but it was really rushed.  I think ME2 did a much better job of allowing us to earn the loyalty and trust of our team-mates, something I feel will pay off in ME3.

I have no doubt that new NPC's will be introduced, though I think they will be in the minority. 

Also, it's not as if the "big choices" were such a threat to consistency, now were they 
Alien or human council? Udina or Anderson? Rachni dead or rachni alive? I have the feeling that decisions like that wouldn't have posed a lot of pressure on the writers of ME2, concerning ME3 i mean (sorry, i'm being  here)

[Zulu_DFA]

McBeath wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or maybe BioWare simply found themselves in a tricky situation of the middle of a trilogy with the "Big Choices" concept... The main story was put on hold and made very litlle progress over the course of ME2 so that all the main caliber revelation bombs would be kept for the final part. Hence, the "character driven plot".

I feel that the entire point of ME2 was to recruit a team.  The story was put on hold so that we could spend time gathering a team of NPC's, make them loyal, and dive into the final part of the game.

Right. The game is called "Mass Effect Two" and the final part is called the "suicide mission", where any number of squadmates may die. Or all of them may live, but some of them still be unloyal, have unresolved daddy issues or be pissed off.

McBeath wrote...
It had nothing to due to the problems faced by the developers or writers, but was intentional so that we could free up that time in ME3.

I'm going to quote someone here: "Source?"

In my own words, I can note that should that been the devs' intent, they wouldn't have made all those characters killable, or at least would have put in some plot signs saying "Zulu! You, idiot, keep them alive or you won't be able to play ME3!". Just like, you know, they did put some such huge signs into Jacob's, Miranda's and Joker's mouths, that if you don't "remove all distractions", or there is something remaining to upgrade on the Normandy, brace for trouble on the "suicide mission". In other words, recruitment and loyalty missions, and Normandy upgrades were one game, the Mass Effect Two, gameplay mechanics.

McBeath wrote...
ME1 took care of recruitment early in the game, with most of your party there before you even leave the Citidel, but it was really rushed.  I think ME2 did a much better job of allowing us to earn the loyalty and trust of our team-mates, something I feel will pay off in ME3.

I have no doubt that new NPC's will be introduced, though I think they will be in the minority. 

So what you are saying is this: "ME3 will be a huge expansion pack for ME2". Am I right?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Nozybidaj]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
The game in no way advances the Reaper plotline and ironically concludes at the precise same point as its predecessor. The Collectors were marginal and your depiction regulates the game to an over glorified side quest.

I'd say that is a fairly accurate description of ME2.

[Elite Midget]

Those were examples on what they could be doing once ME3 starts. Since they're all Zombies they wont ever return as Shepard's guns, outside maybe DLC, as Bioware has shown via Wrex. The best anyone can hope for is cameo's and them playing a larger role in the ME Universe outside the Squad.