762 réponses à ce sujet

[LorDC]

Can someone explain to me how "expendability" translates into "removed from ME3 squad"? Yes it is possible reason for squadmates to be removed. Waste of resources? Isn't making new team while you have old one a waste of resources?

[Killjoy Cutter]

LorDC wrote...

Can someone explain to me how "expendability" translates into "removed from ME3 squad"? Yes it is possible reason for squadmates to be removed. Waste of resources? Isn't making new team while you have old one a waste of resources?

I'd say we're most likely to get a mix of ME1, ME2, and new, based on the pattern set by ME2.  

And some of us will be disappointed by who isn't there from ME1 and ME2. 

(And some will hate who is there, because they do.)

[Zulu_DFA]

LorDC wrote...

Waste of resources? Isn't making new team while you have old one a waste of resources?

Making new games is a waste of resources. BioWare totally should sell ME2 in boxes with "3" on them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:28 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Making games is a waste of resources.

That depends on how one judges such things. 

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

With regards to the difference between a 'Wrex' and a 'VS' scenario. Despite how some people seem to think Wrex = Wreav, I believe that is totally and utterly wrong. Similar beliefs, maybe, but not out and outright copies of one another. Also there is variable dialogue difference between the two (obviously when talking to Shep) as well as other Krogans talking of them.



Also I think the title of this topic really should say 'The one and enough reason why NO PREVIOUS SQUADMATE will be recruitable by default'. Namely because being guaranteed to be in the game does not = being a recruitable squadmate by default.



Anderson and Udina are most likely to return and it is highly unlikely they'll be squadmates.



With regards just going by a 'Default' ME2 playthrough, Liara could be completely avoided if a player wanted to (At the obvious sacrifice of not having Thane or Samara in your squad) and you can't use the 'she is going to play a significant role' line in there, because if that were the case she would have been as unavoidable as the VS was. Am not disputing that she is going to be the Shadow Broker even if Shep didn't help her but to some extent as Fiery said earlier on, it leans more to the aspect of her not being a squadmate or at most a temporary one, with more a chance of her becoming possibly part of "Shep's gang".



Going back to my earlier analysis of previous 2 games squads, am more leaning now towards the 2 new squadmates being the only rock solid guaranteed squadmates and the rest being optional to equate for who you got alive but the player needing a certain amount of them so that they can do some specific task somewhere in the story whether in the middle or near the end again. As to which squadmates from the first 2 games will be in that 'optional' list, that is still up for debate. But I really do think it will be a case of Shep going for people Shep trusts and willing to help and can do so without any issues. I'm also not saying that it'll be akin to ME2 where we have to do recruitment missions again for them, it could easily be a mix of ME and ME2 in that regard. Some where we just go to wherever they are and they join up ala Garrus in ME (although you could argue there was a mission there with the Doctor) and some where you have to go find them and they are embroiled in some mission (ala Tali in ME and ME2).



This way newcomers can still be easily brought into the story. Especially if my theory is right about the 'Default ME3' Shep is true as in that there is only 2 (or 3) survivors from the Suicide Mission. Miranda, Mordin (and possibly Jacob so there is a potential LI for either Shep). Am not saying they are guaranteed far from it, just as I said earlier, possibly 'optional' squadmates.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I was under the impression that Wrez and Wreave were very different in their beliefs and approaches.

[Zulu_DFA]

Question to DAO owners: How many squadmates from DAO are going to be sdquadmates again in DA2?

[CroGamer002]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]Right. Did you see much Tali on the SR-1 in the ME2 intro?[/quote]

Nope.  But I didn't see Liara, either.  OH SNAP.

Really, the only thing the SR-1 scene does is reflect either what gender you are playing in on quick-start or who you banged in ME1.  "No, Shepard!  I can't leave you!  I looooove you!"

If Wrex had been shaggable in ME1, he would have been there, too.

[quote]Irrelevant. And it was actually harder work to get all hands killed or only specific hands, with all the loyalty missions done, than save 'em all. So I demands moar cookie, than you![/quote]

My point exactly.  Because it's so damn easy to keep everyone alive, why the hell WOULDN'T they make a comeback?  Don't want 'em on your squad?  Nuke 'em.  Everyone wins.

[quote]Are you serious? The millions who made the income for EA/Bioware have long since moved on.[/quote]

Some people have over 20 frickin' playthroughs.  I just started a new one, myself.  Therefore, the numbers are going up.  It's not like you can un-play a game.

Not to mention the people who will be purchasing the PS3 release.

So yeah, I'm serious.

[quote]I don't care much for the new player actually... Much less than EA/BioWare, it seems. All I care is continuity. Exiled Tali =/= betrayed Tali. Loyal Legion =/= Legion who lost loyalty during the catfight. Not romanced Jack =/= Jack dumped for Miranda...[/quote]

Rachni saved =/= rachni killed.  Council saved =/= council killed.  Wrex alive =/= Wrex dead.  Just because the carry-over wasn't as good the first time around doesn't mean they can't improve it.  That'd be like cars never improving beyond the Model T.

And, really, how is being abandoned by your loyal crew preserving continuity?

"Sorry, Cheez, but I can't be on your squad this time because Zulu killed me in his playthrough LOL."

The same argument applies to Ash and Kaidan.  So ONE of them has to survive, so WHAT?  They STILL won't be alive in all playthroughs.  Just because they're the only ones you can see being incorporated back into the squad doesn't mean they are the only ones that can.

[quote]Besides, all characters have not only fans, but haters. And it's easier to explain to a player why he has to put up with a brand new Batarian terrorist squaddie (any story reason), than with the annoying bucket-headed space gypsy, whom he'd kept alive only to prolong her misery.[/quote]

Said hater is free to get the despised bucket gypsy killed in ME2 or to continue to torture her.  Or just lock her in the cargo hold and never take her anywhere.  I did the same with Liara in ME1.

However, LotSB made me change my mind, and now I like her.  Who says that similar surprises can't be in store for, say, Jacob?

Instead of thinking of the SM as a reason NO ONE is coming back, think of it as an opportunity to downsize and customize your squad.

[quote]Or not.[/quote]

Says you.  Really, that pretty much sums up both our stances, here.  There is not enough evidence to verify either side.  It's like arguing over whether or not God exists, only far more trivial.

Actually, with the cover character thing, I CAN adequately justify my position: So far, no NPC has become a squadmate (except for Liara, but she was a squadmate originally), but several squadmates have become NPCs.  Furthermore, the covers so far have been used to show off new characters.  Tali and Garrus could have easily been on the cover, but Miranda and Thane were new and sexy.  The  sexy new guy/gal seems to be taking the cake.

[quote]Irrelevant. Thane is killable and dying anyway. Feron is alive and kicking, Liara's buddy, helped save Shepard once.[/quote]

Irrelevant.  Garrus is alive and kicking, Liara's buddy, and helped save Shepard twice.  The only difference here is that one is "killable."  The whole point of my arguments is that killable =/= zero chance of squadhood in ME3.

[quote]So are you saying it, or are you not?[/quote]

I'm saying that I've been able to provide just as much evidence against your claim as you have been able to provide for it.  Let us review (with color-coded responses!)...

REASONS WHY NO ME2 SQUADMATES ARE RETURNING (let me know if I missed some):

1. They can all die.
2. Too much resource investment.
3. They'd just bog down the story.
4. Not all players would experience the content.
5. They were a bunch of emo whiners.
6. Squadmates with a gauranteed future purpose were intentionally left out of ME2's squad.
7. People want quality over quantity.
8. Old squadmates can be back as DLC.

REASONS WHY THERE IS INDEED A POSSIBILITY OF ME2 SQUADMATES RETURNING (I probably forgot a few here, too):

1. Big, whopping fanbase.  Bioware likes its fanbase, enough to make an angry space chicken a romance option.
2. They only evidence to support possible death = cameo is one squadmate, Wrex.
3. Bioware did not anticipate that 50% of players would import a save.
4. Bioware did not anticipate that getting everyone out alive was pretty much a cakewalk.
5. The great majority of players who lose squadmates either didn't care that the squadmate died or did it on purpose, and therefore probably didn't want that character present, anway, either for personal taste or dramatic effect.
6. Bioware spends an awful lot of time and money on content that not all players will experience.  They advertised the balls off of Thane, but you can completely skip recruiting him.  Wrex and Garrus were skippable in ME1.  Grunt, Thane, Samara, Tali, and Legion were all skippable in ME2.  DLC is skippable.  Sidequests are skippable.  New players don't get the same goodies as veterans.  Strictly paragon players don't get access to dominate.  Add all that up, and you can see the same thing happening with a couple squadmates.
7. Ashley and Kaidan can both die as well, and Liara is not guaranteed to be a squadmate in ME3.
8. If ME1 LIs make a triumphant comeback, it's only fair that ME2 LIs do as well.  Ashleymancers saved Ashley, Talimancers saved Tali.  Ashleymancers get Ash back, but Talimancers don't get Tali back?  As hilarious as it would be to watch them flip out over it, it's simply not fair.
9. Nothing is stopping Bioware from improving upon what they did in ME1 and 2. (This isn't really a specific rebuttal, so I don't know what color to make it.)
10. Default saves can compensate for potentially lost squadmates.
11. People who kill off their squadmates are not getting "cheated" out of content because they made an active choice to remove that content from the game.
12. It is surprisingly easy to catch newplayers up with what's happening without spoonfeeding it to them.
13. Wanting quality over quantity does not correlate with not wanting ME2 squadmates back.
14. Returning characters can advance the story just as well as new characters.
15. Creating a new character takes a lot more effort than bringing back an old one.  Entirely new concept, new voice actor, new backstory, new skillset, etc.
16. Most people who want to see new squadmates don't want to see JUST new squadmates.
17. Support roles are just as important as MacGuffins.
18. The entire purpose of ME2 was to recruit a squad, gain their loyalty, and keep as many of them alive as possible.  The Collectors were pretty much just something to shoot at when you got tired of playing therapist.
19. Why should people have to pay for something they've already paid for?  Why should people who did their best to preserve their squad have to pay extra to see them again?
20. Bioware already has a history of bringing characters back from the dead.  Baldur's Gate 2.  Dragon Age: Awakenings.  The Lazarus Project.
21. The ME1 squad had issues, too.  The only difference is that the loyalty mechanic didn't exist.

[quote]78% like the "interrogation" idea. Couple it with this thread's poll and you'll get the minimum of roughly 2/3 of people favoring "Interrogation resulting in smaller, more interactive squad" type of ME3.[/quote]

I like it, too, but it's just an idea.

A smaller, more interactive squad does not mean it has to be a squad devoid of ME2 characters.  A lot of people like the idea of all squadmates being recruitable again, too.  And honestly, they started ME2 by killing Shepard off and bringing him back from the dead.  Totally illogical and completely unpredicted.  People like the idea/idea makes sense =/= Bioware will use the idea.

If the forumers could have consturcted the plot themselves, ME2 would have been a helluva lot different.

[quote]It could be said, and it would be false. Their mothers weren't running around with Saren in a Reaper's belly, and they weren't working for Cerberus to save Commader Shepard from the Collectors, and they didn't pursue and replace the Shadow Broker.[/quote]

Wrex helped stop Saren and went on to unite the krogan.  He is also rumored to have connections to Aria, who could prove to be a very powerful ally.  He helped lead you to Fist, who led you to Tali, who led you to the evidence against Saren.

Garrus has stuck by Shepard since the beggining.  He made a huge dent in criminal activity on Omega.  He, too, helped lead you to the evidence against Saren.  He helped stop Saren.  He helped stop the Collectors.

And Tali's the daughter of the admiral who was researching some sort of uber-hacking-weapon against the geth.

Liara only becomes the Shadow Broker if you pay for the DLC.

In sum, who is "most important" is a purely relative matter.  I could even argue that Jacob is the most important character, if you wanted.  Of course, I wouldn't do as good of a job on it as someone who actually held that opinion, but you get my point.

[quote]First, "Chekhov".[/quote]

My bad.  Not like you don't make typos as well, though.  I just correct them if I spot them without pointing them out because I don't want to seem like an ass.

Either way, thanks.  I suck at spelling last names.

[quote]Secondly, Gianna Parasini is on the Dark Energy too. So what?[/quote]

There is a difference between mentioning it in passing and actively studying it.

[quote]He doesn't need to be a squaddie to be more important a character, than any squaddie, including even Liara. The point is: squaddies as such are small time characters. Garrus had 11 of them, and 8 of them died "off screen" for him![/quote]

So if a character doesn't have to be important to be a squaddie, and a character doesn't have to be a squaddie to be important, why are you so adamant that Liara and the VS will be back on the team?  Marketing strategies?  That's it?  When the same can be done with ME2 squadmates?  In the default save?  Where you'd only miss out if you killed them on purpose?

The 8 offstage deaths were members of a squaddie's squad.  Shepard's squad > Shepard's squad's squads.

[quote]Since Joker is not a squaddie, I can give him in to you... BTW, check the OP. I was proposing to have him join the ME3 squad a while back![/quote]

This is where your argument falls apart.  You are insisting that Liara and VS are going to be squadmates because they are important, while you just said that an important character doesn't have to be a squadmate.

Wait, scratch that: you are assuming that they will be squadmates because they have a 100% survival rate.  Well, so do Anderson and Chakwas.  So do Udina, Khalisa al-Jilani, Emily Wong, and Refund Guy.

Possible death =/= not going to be a squadmate.  Lack of importance =/= not going to be a squadmate.  Hopefully, I have provided sufficient evidence as to why.

(Why, yes, let's have a man with brittle bones and minimal combat experience follow you around with a Cain strapped to his back.  Trololololo-lololo-lololol....)
[/quote]


/bumping awesome post:police:

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I was under the impression that Wrez and Wreave were very different in their beliefs and approaches.

Meh, I think I messed up what I said about that, the thing is though that some people do think they are the same whereas they aren't and so Wrex surviving to me could still be a big thing.

Basically put, my main point to this was that just because an ME2 squadmate is expendable doesn't mean they could have no importance in ME3 and thus if they are in, won't be a 'waste of resources' as Zulu oft likes to refer to them as.

Specially the 'Spineless Turian' whom was one of Zulu's favourites yet believes should only be a DLC character. Which is kind of funny seeing as out of all the squadmates if that one in particular survives he would be the most likeliest NOT to leave unless Shep was 'dead' again. If Shep in prison I would imagine Garrus would be one of the people trying to get the Council/Alliance to see sense. Am not saying he would be recruitable by default. Just that if he is alive then I can't see any reason for why he wouldn't be recruitable unlike the others who could be doing something else and before it is fired at me, yeah I know I said that in my opinion of the 'default ME3' Shep he is dead, but I refer back up to what I said about Wrex. Just because he could be dead don't mean to say he can't be of any use for anyone who has him alive and I can't see them making the ME2 squadmates into ME3 DLC.

Edit: @Zulu regarding DAO squadmates question, that is irrelevant because Hawke doesn't = Warden.
Now if DA3 was to follow Hawke, then the question for that game could be raised.

Another defence to ME2 squadmates, it would seem a bit stupid for Bioware to put that line in that Samara says POST-SUICIDE with regards her willing to join Shep again if needed later on. Again it's obvious she isn't going to be recruitable by default, but to me it is obvious that she could possibly be available if Shep needs her.

Not as if the following is going to happen.

Shep in ME3 sees Samara sat down in a hotel lobby in a meditative state
Shep "Hey Samara remember when you said you'd help if needed?"
Samara "Not now Shepard, I need to meditate on the events of the day"

Or going back to my previous ME squaddie mentioned

Shep finds himself in a bar and sees Garrus
Shep "Hey... Garrus!"
Garrus "Not right now Shepard, I'm in the middle of some calibrations!"

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Edit: @Zulu regarding DAO squadmates question, that is irrelevant because Hawke doesn't = Warden.

Why not?

What I am getting at is that BioWare seems to be actually fond of cooking new squadmates...

In ME1 we got 6, in ME2 -- 8-10 new squadmates. How can anyone expect of them to settle with just 2-3 in ME3? It must be no less than in ME1.

So 6+2.5 = 8 squadmates. Where 2.5 stands for Liara, Ashley and Kaidan, lol!

Plus maybe a couple of DLC squadmates who happen to be from the ME2 squad. But I expect them to make some LotSB-like ME3 DLC for the most popular ME2 squadmates (Garrus, Tali, Miranda) or incorporate similar "character-driven" missions into ME3 (but also available to play with some placeholders for dialogue and regular ME3 squaddies for shooting, in case the "driving character" bit it in ME2).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:23 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Regarding DA, Awakening only had Oghren returning as a fully fledged squadmate, but you also could meet others as cameos depending on your choices in Origins. DA2 won't have any since the protagonist is a whole other person.

[Gemini1179]

I wonder more about the resources needed (ie ACTORS) to produce entire voice-overs for characters who potentially died in a previous game. They probably resigned themselves to the fact that Ashley or Kaiden may come back and that's two entire VO's for ONE role.



Having voice actors come in and do entire voice-overs for character who may not even show up in game might be considered a waste of resources.



Just a thought.



I honestly don't *expect* any squad mates from ME2 to return and be fully 'recruit-able'. One could argue that it is exceptionally difficult to actually have Miranda killed, or that Tali's popularity make it impossible not to include her, but that's really up to the devs and the dollars.



Personally, I think it might be interesting to see new characters like this:



A cyborg Avatar for EDI.

Aethyta the Bartender (sp?)

A Turian female Spectre (mentioned in first post and I agree)

A Volus Sniper- who'da thunk it?

Collector who has retained his Prothean mind/heritage.

BLASTO! ...nuff said.

[-Skorpious-]

Gemini1179 wrote...

I wonder more about the resources needed (ie ACTORS) to produce entire voice-overs for characters who potentially died in a previous game. They probably resigned themselves to the fact that Ashley or Kaiden may come back and that's two entire VO's for ONE role.

Having voice actors come in and do entire voice-overs for character who may not even show up in game might be considered a waste of resources.

Just a thought.

I honestly don't *expect* any squad mates from ME2 to return and be fully 'recruit-able'. One could argue that it is exceptionally difficult to actually have Miranda killed, or that Tali's popularity make it impossible not to include her, but that's really up to the devs and the dollars.

The same can be said for hiring completely new actors for completely new roles. And besides, asides from Liara and Tali in ME, no single character from both games were vital to the main plot.

Gemini1179 wrote...

Personally, I think it might be interesting to see new characters like this:

A cyborg Avatar for EDI.
Aethyta the Bartender (sp?)
A Turian female Spectre (mentioned in first post and I agree)
A Volus Sniper- who'da thunk it?
Collector who has retained his Prothean mind/heritage.
BLASTO! ...nuff said.

The only idea that I agree with - the rest...don't know what to say.

[LorDC]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Edit: @Zulu regarding DAO squadmates question, that is irrelevant because Hawke doesn't = Warden.

Why not?

Because DAO2 is different story placed in different time and place. Pretty much like KOTOR and Jedi Outcast. Both games are still Star Wars but question about having same characters doesn't make any sense.

[LorDC]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Waste of resources? Isn't making new team while you have old one a waste of resources?

Making new games is a waste of resources. BioWare totally should sell ME2 in boxes with "3" on them.

You still didn't answer my question.

[LorDC]

Gemini1179 wrote...
Having voice actors come in and do entire voice-overs for character who may not even show up in game might be considered a waste of resources.

Only 14% of squadmates died. Not too big by itself. Throw out squadmates who were killed on purpose by players. Plus there will be lot of people with "default" saves. Plus many squadmates die a lot less than others(I'm pretty sure of it). And bam! you have some squadmates that are like 99% there. Not to much of resource waste.

[Zulu_DFA]

LorDC
Only 14% of squadmates died. Not too big by itself. Throw out squadmates who were killed on purpose by players. Plus there will be lot of people with "default" saves. Plus many squadmates die a lot less than others(I'm pretty sure of it). And bam! you have some squadmates that are like 99% there. Not to much of resource waste.

I like your approach. You are natural born game developer.

14% is a figure that suggests that many "casual" players who don't read FAQs and guides, made 2-3 playthoughs and will want to import their saves into ME3, may not have a single save without at least one squadmate dead. And that can be any squadmate, even Miranda, quite easy (if the only unloyal among hold-the-liners). Many others, who made just one playthrough and still will want to import, may have 3-4 fatalities!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 09:27 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

LorDC
Only 14% of squadmates died. Not too big by itself. Throw out squadmates who were killed on purpose by players. Plus there will be lot of people with "default" saves. Plus many squadmates die a lot less than others(I'm pretty sure of it). And bam! you have some squadmates that are like 99% there. Not to much of resource waste.

I like your approach. You are natural born game developer.

14% is a figure that suggests that many "casual" players who don't read FAQs and guides, made 2-3 playthoughs and will want to import their saves into ME3, may not have a single save without at least one squadmate dead. And that can be any squadmate, even Miranda, quite easy (if the only unloyal among hold-the-liners). Many others, who made just one playthrough and still will want to import, may have 3-4 fatalities!

Actually, whilst it still is easy to kill Miranda, it isn't as easy as just her being the only unloyal among HtL, you'd also have to ensure there isn't any of the 3 heavys (garrus, grunt and zaeed) in the HtL team as well, loyal or not. Because otherwise they'd help keep her alive due to them having 3 at minimum score and with Miranda giving a 1 if unloyal, that means 4 in total, which is enough to keep 2 people alive.

With regards 'waste of resources' besides the aforementioned NEW VAs, there is also the fact of time/resources spent making the backgrounds, drawing out how the new characters look. In comparison to the potential 15 (if you include the ME squaddies) squadmates available.

So people who didn't get some people out alive miss out on stuff, like I've said they don't ALL have to be recruitable but to say NON of them will is downright idiotic, specially as Tali and Garrus have already proved that theory wrong.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Tali and Garrus have already proved that theory wrong.

Tali and Garrus proved only one thing: non-killable ME1 squadmates can return as squadmates in the next game. Now is Liara's and VS's turn.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Tali and Garrus have already proved that theory wrong.

Tali and Garrus proved only one thing: non-killable ME1 squadmates can return as squadmates in the next game. Now is Liara's and VS's turn.

You sure about VS? Kaidan and Ashley are killable in ME1.

Then again it shouldn't be too hard to create different dialogue dependant on the character.

[-Skorpious-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Tali and Garrus have already proved that theory wrong.

Tali and Garrus proved only one thing: non-killable ME1 squadmates can return as squadmates in the next game. Now is Liara's and VS's turn.

Liara being a squadmate is wasted potential. She is better suited using her talents as the new Shadow Broker rather than extra muscle for Shepard.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Question to DAO owners: How many squadmates from DAO are going to be sdquadmates again in DA2?

Apples to oranges. 

DA2 will be a different main character, and it seems it will be a very different game.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Tali and Garrus have already proved that theory wrong.

Tali and Garrus proved only one thing: non-killable ME1 squadmates can return as squadmates in the next game. Now is Liara's and VS's turn.

Oh please don't lower yourself to the childish like intelligence that I've seen of some of the other 'MEsquadmate who didn't return in ME2 as squadmate' fans. Especially as you keep claiming to not be one.

What I really find funny is that I know a lot of those fans actually killed off Garrus and Tali in their ME2 playthroughs (as shown in the 'science' topic) so for them to argue about them coming back is laughable considering that in their playthrough if they import, neither of them will be. Hell I even know one of those fans who went and killed all the ME2 LIs in a playthrough because they despised the fact people got to pick other LIs than their ME ones and they didn't get to have no sexy time with theirs.

The whole "It's only fair that Garrus and Tali don't return whilst Ash and VS do so that its 2 games each" statement makes me really wonder how old people who come up with such nonsense really are. Like I said... childish.

Also technically, Liara HAS been a squadmate in ME2 in LotSB, so by that regard she shouldn't be back in ME3 as a squadmate by that idea. Likewise am going to guess VS will get similar treatment in an upcoming DLC.

"Well thats all that Tali and Garrus should get in ME3! Just a 'post-ending' mission for some sweet short good stuff."

Oh really? Put it this way, if the Garrus and Tali fans wanted to stoop to such a childish statement, they could easily argue that Liara and VS should not only be 'optional' (seeing as they weren't in ME, but Garrus was in ME and Tali was in ME2) but also both be killable. Although am going to hazard a guess all squadmates may be killable in ME3 seeing as there is no ME4 as far as Shep's story goes and so one of the endings could be everyone dying.

I have to say Zulu to see you coming out with such a childish comment about the whole VS+Liara and Tali+Garrus thing surprises me, I've always thought you better than that.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I really doubt we'll see it, but it wouldn't bother me at all to see Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Liara, and the VS all in the ME3 as squadmates.



Well, in the case of the VS, they'd have to appologize for being a tool on Horizon before I'd let them on the ship... ;-)

[Elite Midget]

Liara was a temp Squadie and wasen't part of the Suicide Mission which could have potientially killed her. If she had than I wouldn't be saying she has a higher chance to return as a Squadie. After all, you don't see any of us agueing that Wrex will return as a Squadie in ME3. Why? Because he could die in ME1. Liara and VS however are above those that are killable because of the fact that EVER SINGLE ME3 SAVE MUST HAVE THEM.

Also, FYI: All of the ME2 Zombies survived in my saves. Doesn't change the fact that they all 'could' die ala Wrex and none of them has to be alive in ME3.

Saying none of the Killables, where they aren't alive in all ME3 saves, will be recruitable in ME3 is downright genius.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Please note the non-sequitor in your post.  Having some of the squadies from ME2 does not, automatically, upset game balance, or anything else -- any more than having Tali and Garrus from ME1 upset anything in ME2  (well, it upset the people who hate them for no reason other than that someone else likes them, but that's not really part of the game itself). 


As for examples such as Thane, you'll please note that I did say that it would be a stretch to bring Thane back in ME3, and he's one of my favorite squadies from ME2.  As another example, I prefer Zaeed to Jacob, but I think it's more likely that we'll see Jacob back in ME3.


The funniest part of these discussions, however, is that those who want* the ME2 squadies to all go away (preferably by death in a fire, it seems) keep refering to them as "expendables", "zombies", and the like.  If your points about this were as strong as you like to think, you could just refer to them as characters, and leave it at that. 

*  Yes, WANT.   If it were just a matter of dry, cold analysis, we wouldn't see the firey, impassioned attempts at arguing that they'll be gone. 

Yes it does. Less Max Squadmates on the disc, the inability for Bioware to give 'any' of the ME2 Zombies any connection to the ME3 Plot as a Squadie because they're dead and it would ruin immersion into the Universe when the ME2 Zombies don't say anything regarding events. Remember Garrus and Tali on Horizon? Yeah, Bioware got a lot of backlash for that. Why would they risk even more backlash at an even grander scale? Not to mention that it would alienate new and old Gamers.

Thane isn't returning. His whole sub-plot in ME2 was him dieing and making peace with his son before passing away. If Bioware makes him suddenly alive and 100% well, despite him constantly stateing that he has less than a year to live as well as the fact that he outright refuses medical treatment, it would kill any meaning his dieing last wish had in ME2. It was Thane's thing after all and without it what does he have?

Jacob will return, if he still lives, but as a Cameo. No ifs, ands, or buts. Wrex is a perfect example of what they shall have done upon them.

It isn't what I want, it's what Bioware already had planned for the ME2 Zombies for ME3 hence why they all can die ala Wrex. Hell, Wrex had less situations of deing compared to some of the ME2 Zombies.

I already stated 'many' reasons in this thread why they won return. though if you want to be petty than I will give you one reason that you can't deny. Bioware made them 'expendable', a bunch of 'Zombies', and the like because Bioware had no plans to bring them back into Squadie status ala Wrex. We're just stateing what Bioware has already said through their actions.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:12 .