762 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

As Cameo's or other roles but they wont be Squadies in ME3.



That and it would be a waste of resources to try and do that since not all ME2 Squadies will even be alive to be even be recruitable in all saves. That and retconning possible deaths is poor writing and a lack of backbone. What do you think this is? A Comic Book where those that die still end up returning multiple times?

[-Skorpious-]

While I certainty wouldn't want the entire ME2 crew to return, having 2-3 familiar faces wouldn't hurt anyone would it? Using the previous ME games as an example, where does it mandate that all squadmates have to be critical to the plot? In ME Garrus and Wrex were fully developed characters who were completely optional, as was Grunt, Thane, Tali, Samara, and Legion from ME2.

Default Shepard's can have them available as squadmates, and those who import a save with (let's say Miranda) dead have to live with the consequences of their poor choices on the suicide mission. After all, wasn't a lack of "choices making an impact" one of the reoccurring complaints users have regarding ME2?

[Killjoy Cutter]

At least thease threads make it clear who among us doesn't want any repeat characters.



I guess it shouldn't stun me, after all some people would rather recruit a character, kill them, record it, post it on youtube, and make sure everyone who likes that character knows they did it, than just not recruit that character.



Oh well.

[Elite Midget]

It would hurt those that wanted their killable ME2 Squadie in but instead they're stuck with Garrus/Tali again despite them being just as killable as the rest.



There are too many varibles to consider and would make having them a part of the Squadies a headache. For example...



Samara

Alive, Loyal, Shepard a Paragon(States that she'll leave after the Collectors are dealt with)

Alive, Loyal, Shepard a Renegade(Thus she would try and kill him)

Alive, Unloyal, Shepard a Paragon(Even less of a reason to stay since she must hunt Morinth)

Alive, Unloyal, Shepard a Renegade(Thus she would try and kill him)

Dead via Morinth

Dead, Loyal

Dead, Unloyal

[Killjoy Cutter]

Elite Midget wrote...

As Cameo's or other roles but they wont be Squadies in ME3.

That and it would be a waste of resources to try and do that since not all ME2 Squadies will even be alive to be even be recruitable in all saves.

And when importing those saves, the players don't get those characters in ME3, and miss the content.

Should have done a better job in ME2.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Elite Midget wrote...

It would hurt those that wanted their killable ME2 Squadie in but instead they're stuck with Garrus/Tali again despite them being just as killable as the rest.

This is the sort of thing I suspect it really comes down to... I mean, why pick out Tali and Garrus to mention?  We could just as easily be "stuck with" Jacob and Miranda. 

Of course, Jacob and Miranda don't have big fanbases to crap on the way that Tali and Garrus do...

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:32 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

At least thease threads make it clear who among us doesn't want any repeat characters.

I guess it shouldn't stun me, after all some people would rather recruit a character, kill them, record it, post it on youtube, and make sure everyone who likes that character knows they did it, than just not recruit that character.

Oh well.

The most epic ME2 vid, ever!

Yeah!!!....

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[-Skorpious-]

Elite Midget wrote...

It would hurt those that wanted their killable ME2 Squadie in but instead they're stuck with Garrus/Tali again despite them being just as killable as the rest.

So instead of having Garrus or Tali they would rather have no one at all? Grunt isn't my favorite character, but I would be excited if he returned in ME3 nonetheless.

Elite Midget wrote...

There are too many varibles to consider and would make having them a part of the Squadies a headache. For example...

Samara
Alive, Loyal, Shepard a Paragon(States that she'll leave after the Collectors are dealt with)
Alive, Loyal, Shepard a Renegade(Thus she would try and kill him)
Alive, Unloyal, Shepard a Paragon(Even less of a reason to stay since she must hunt Morinth)
Alive, Unloyal, Shepard a Renegade(Thus she would try and kill him)
Dead via Morinth
Dead, Loyal
Dead, Unloyal

Samara is out for obvious reasons. Garrus, Grunt, Jacob - these characters have little reason to leave Shepard and would fit in the category of one of the 2-3 I mentioned above.

[Phaedon]

Please correct me if I skipped something, but the OP only has links to the 'I support plotholes' thread, and a review that happens to be listed as the lowest on metacritic.

[Elite Midget]

Bioware has shown that they wont ever punish new Gamers in their games and they have stated that each ME entry will be Complete and Standalone Experiences. That and I have repeated many times why it would be a wate to try and squeeze them into ME3 as Squadies when Bioware can satisfy fans both new and old fans by having a Squad based on Characters alive in every save while treating the ME2 Zombies with dignity via extended Cameo's.



Garrus/Tali Fans are the most vocal thus if any of them were to return, despite being Zombies now, it would be them. After all, Bioware caved to Garrus/Tali Fans before in the past. Though I can easily see Garrus and Tali leaving Shepard before ME3 starts.



Garrus wanting to evolve as a leader and after finally realizing that he can learn no more under Shepard and to truely shine he must leave Shepard he will do just that.



Tali has the Quarian People to worry about, Peace or War with the Geth, examining Dark Energy, studying even more dying Stars, and generally doing more important stuff than being stuck under Shepards command. Sure she might be willing to do nothing for a few months but longer than that isn't Tali's style. She's a proactive and hands on person. Thus by the time ME3 starts, which is over a year later, she'll be long gone doing her part instead of being babysitted in the Normandy SR2.

[Elite Midget]

Grunt is part of a Clan now. After the Collectors are dealt with he wont sit by and doing nothing when he could be fighting for his Clan. The fact that ME3 will start at least a year later supports that the short tempered and impatient Grunt would leave the moment greener pastures(or in his case, tons of fighting) presents itself.



Garrus would leave because he would see the need of more Leaders, like Shepard, in the Universe to aid the cause against the Reapers. He'll than relieze that he's just like a younger, albiet Turian, Shepard and that he has nothing more to learn under Shepard. Thus he would take his leave so that he can become a Leader, like Shepard, that the Universe so desperately needs to lead them through its darkest hour.



Jacob... Well, I personally don't have anything really concrete against the guy. The only thing he has going for him is that he wants to be proactive and get things done and that he's tired of the waiting games. Though all the prepareing for Reapers means that Shepard isn't really out and doing much hands on stuff that is towards Jacob's tastes. Though if he wasen't made killable ala Wrex than I wouldn't mind seeing him stay. However, he is killable so Bioware will just have to think of something. Hopefully something interesting.

[-Skorpious-]

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware has shown that they wont ever punish new Gamers in their games and they have stated that each ME entry will be Complete and Standalone Experiences. That and I have repeated many times why it would be a wate to try and squeeze them into ME3 as Squadies when Bioware can satisfy fans both new and old fans by having a Squad based on Characters alive in every save while treating the ME2 Zombies with dignity via extended Cameo's.

It wouldn't be punishing new gamers if the characters are included with the default Shepard.

Elite Midget wrote...

Garrus wanting to evolve as a leader and after finally realizing that he can learn no more under Shepard and to truely shine he must leave Shepard he will do just that.

What will he do though? Go back to Omega? Shepard and Cerberus are the only ones (at this point) capable of stopping the reapers. Unless Garrus leaves to form his own anti-reaper squad (what sane person will believe him?) I see little reason why Garrus would continue to be a vigilante when the entire galaxy is at stake.

Elite Midget wrote...

Tali has the Quarian People to worry about, Peace or War with the Geth, examining Dark Energy, studying even more dying Stars, and generally doing more important stuff than being stuck under Shepards command. Sure she might be willing to do nothing for a few months but longer than that isn't Tali's style. She's a proactive and hands on person. Thus by the time ME3 starts, which is over a year later, she'll be long gone doing her part instead of being babysitted in the Normandy SR2.

While I can see Tali leaving Shepard's side, there is the fact that she is potentially exiled/Shepard's LI. I wouldn't be so quick to write her off yet.

[BlazePT]

Call me an SOB, but bu the third instalment people are now aware of ME 3, and if they are not it's because they don't like the franchise.

I didn't know the first one, the second was an immediate buy, so will be the third. I don't want any newcomer intro. I wanna start balls deep into this war.

[Elite Midget]

If its included with the Defaut Shepard than what would have been the point of the Suicide Mission? Why would they even bother throwing down cash for ME2 or any of the DLCs if they get everyone alive despite them being just as killable, or in some cases more killable, than Wrex ever was? That and what's the point of the Characters if they wont have any say in the Story/Plot on ME3?



Especially when Bioware can instead opt to just use living characters in every singe ME3 save and better intergrate them into the plot without having to constantly worry about 'Oh, he's dead! Who else can we use in the scenerio that he's dead? Oh, that person we were gonna use to replace the other dead person is dead too? Well, who else can we-'. See where I'm getting at? It's a bumnch of unneeded hassel and stress for those working on ME3.



Garrus is a Turian, he could easily return to his people or even start his own group. The point is that Garrus is a Leader and not a Follower. THe moment he learns that Shepard can teach him no more and that to get out from under Shepard's Shadow he must leave than he will do so. It reflects how he left C-Sec in the past. His rasonings being that he felt his talents were wasted there and that C-Sec didn't do enough of what he wanted. Thus I can see him leaving Shepard just as easily as he left C-Sec.



She is potientially dead too. Also, the Exile doesn't have to be permanent and LIs don't have to be a part of your Squad. As ME2 has shown.

[Elite Midget]

BlazePT wrote...

Call me an SOB, but bu the third instalment people are now aware of ME 3, and if they are not it's because they don't like the franchise.
I didn't know the first one, the second was an immediate buy, so will be the third. I don't want any newcomer intro. I wanna start balls deep into this war.

Doesn't matter what you want. What matters is what Bioware wants and they want every part of the ME Trilogy to be Complete and Standalone experiences with small bonuses if you played the other games.

That and it's easier to make a Default Shepard have no one intheir Squad than introduce new characters and fleshing out their back stories to them than to have every ME2 Zombie alive yet don't flesh out anything since their back stories were already fleshed out in ME2. That and the fact that they could all very well leave Shepard before ME3 for a number of reasons.

[BlazePT]

Yeah, yeah. I know, you know, everyone knows. But I somewhat don't think this game has space for char development, but instead it has to deal with the real issue - Reapers/war. Otherwise, it will fill the game with rushed backstories.

[Elite Midget]

Hence why Bioware might opt for a much smaller Squad for ME3.



We still haven't explored the Batarians or other races of the Traverse. This is a war against all Galatic Species. Thus while the ME2 Squadies are off doing their own thing to prepare those that Shepard knows will eventually see the light Shepard on the otherhand will being working to gain the trust of those that have only known Hatred for the Council Races and Humanity.



With the Kasumi DLC as an indication of things to come I can see Bioware putting even more doubt in the Alliance and use it as an excuse for why the VS would eventually go AWOL again and join Shepard after having lost faith in the Alliance and all that it once stood for.

[Flying-Jew]

Phaedon wrote...

Please correct me if I skipped something, but the OP only has links to the 'I support plotholes' thread, and a review that happens to be listed as the lowest on metacritic.

Haha, I didn't see it. Link please 

[-Skorpious-]

Elite Midget wrote...

If its included with the Defaut Shepard than what would have been the point of the Suicide Mission? Why would they even bother throwing down cash for ME2 or any of the DLCs if they get everyone alive despite them being just as killable, or in some cases more killable, than Wrex ever was?

Newcomers will buy ME2 for the full experience the series has to offer; not because unknown character x isn't recruitable in ME3.

Elite Midget wrote...

That and what's the point of the Characters if they wont have any say in the Story/Plot on ME3?

Especially when Bioware can instead opt to just use living characters in every singe ME3 save and better intergrate them into the plot without having to constantly worry about 'Oh, he's dead! Who else can we use in the scenerio that he's dead? Oh, that person we were gonna use to replace the other dead person is dead too? Well, who else can we-'. See where I'm getting at? It's a bumnch of unneeded hassel and stress for those working on ME3.

All valid points. But like I said before, Bioware is not afraid to include "fluff" characters in the ME games. 1/3 of the original six crew were optional, hell, 1/2 of the ME crew (dlc aside) were entirely optional.

Elite Midget wrote...

Garrus is a Turian, he could easily return to his people or even start his own group. The point is that Garrus is a Leader and not a Follower. THe moment he learns that Shepard can teach him no more and that to get out from under Shepard's Shadow he must leave than he will do so. It reflects how he left C-Sec in the past. His rasonings being that he felt his talents were wasted there and that C-Sec didn't do enough of what he wanted. Thus I can see him leaving Shepard just as easily as he left C-Sec.

Nobody believes Shepard about the coming invasion, why would they take a former C-sec officer turned vigilante any more seriously? To make matters worse for Garrus, the turian holds no sway in the turian hierarchy, meaning, as a turian, nobody signiificant will believe him/take him seriously. If he has to leave Shepard's side, he will resume his life as a vigilante; I don't think Garrus is stupid enough to ignore the reaper threat and kill red sand dealers instead.

Elite Midget wrote...

She is potientially dead too. Also, the Exile doesn't have to be permanent and LIs don't have to be a part of your Squad. As ME2 has shown.

Having the exile be reversable is a huge cop-out in my opinion. This is the final game in Shepard's story - our choices should matter at this point.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Elite Midget]

Many new ME2 Owners never bought ME1. The Full Experience excues doesn't count for them. They wanted a complete standalone game and Bioware delivered. Bioware will do the exact same with ME3 because it's the most econimically sound.



Fluff characters are fine when every save, default or imported, can use them and they aren't dead.



You underestimate the writting of Bioware. With Liara being the Shadow Broker she could easily 'lend aid' to Garrus and even outright blackmail the Turians if they refuse to believe. Though considering that the Turians created the Thanix Canonon it would very well be true that they do believe but don't wish to share that knowledge with Shepard or Humans in General. That and Garrus for being a 'nobody' was able to get a Thanix Cannon and have it installed on a Cerberus Vessel.



Garrus isn't stupid which s exactly why he will end up leaving Shepard. The Universe needs more Leaders like Shepard and Garrus is practically the Turian version of a Younger Shepard.



ME1 Fans said the same thing when ME2 hit. Bioware has shown that they don't really care if it contradicts with what they already had planned.

[-Skorpious-]

I guess I never factored in the LotSB. =p



Well, both of us seem adamant in our beliefs, so I guess we'll have to wait until ME3 ships to find out which of us was "right". However, I still stand by my assessment that the suicide mission was a stupid concept; that much will never change.

[Zulu_DFA]

Where do people get that Garrus is younger than Shepard?



By the start of ME1 Garrus had served his term in the navy and become one of C-Sec's top invertigators. Granted, Pallin may have wanted to make the investigation of Saren bog down, but he couldn't just charge a rookie with it! In fact, he talks about "years" of work for C-Sec, when he recalls the Dr. Saleon's case.



In human years Garrus must be about the same age as Shepard!

[Elite Midget]

There's no argueing that Bioware dropped the ball on the Suicide Mission. They should have made none if the Squadies killable and offered other ways to make the mission more personal instead of short cutscenes showing Squadies dieing.

As for Garrus. I say he's like a Young Turian Shepard because personality and experience wise he's clearly the younger one in those instances. Than there's the part on how Garrus turns out depends on how Shepard molded him under their wing in ME1 and ME2.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:57 .

[Flying-Jew]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Where do people get that Garrus is younger than Shepard?

By the start of ME1 Garrus had served his term in the navy and become one of C-Sec's top invertigators. Granted, Pallin may have wanted to make the investigation of Saren bog down, but he couldn't just charge a rookie with it! In fact, he talks about "years" of work for C-Sec, when he recalls the Dr. Saleon's case.

In human years Garrus must be about the same age as Shepard!

Younger experience wise

[Ieldra]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
At least thease threads make it clear who among us doesn't want any repeat characters.

I guess it shouldn't stun me, after all some people would rather recruit a character, kill them, record it, post it on youtube, and make sure everyone who likes that character knows they did it, than just not recruit that character.

Oh well.

Yeah...and Zulu's reaction just shows how he likes to ****** on the graves of the ME2 team. I find some interesting discussion here, but that attitude, and Elite Midget's who calls the ME2 team "zombies", makes me wish this thread would die. Fat chance of that. This must be the longest living hate thread in the history of this forum.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2010 - 09:26 .