762 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

True, but they might not have time to go back and get it, at least if you destroy the base.

[HTTP 404]

regardless if any one character had a chance to return as a squadmate it would be legion. There are more plausible explanations for why he could return even if he died

[KainrycKarr]

If Bioware thinks it will make more money, they will bring them back. That is the law of business



And in a business, money is law. No matter what they say, no matter what logic we or anyone else uses, Bioware can and will ignore it if they believe it will generate more revenue.



It's really that simple. Only question is if Bioware thinks it will create more revenue or not. And noone knows that but them.

[HTTP 404]

KainrycKarr wrote...

If Bioware thinks it will make more money, they will bring them back. That is the law of business

And in a business, money is law. No matter what they say, no matter what logic we or anyone else uses, Bioware can and will ignore it if they believe it will generate more revenue.

It's really that simple. Only question is if Bioware thinks it will create more revenue or not. And noone knows that but them.

they could make more money not having any characters and squadmates and turn it into an FPS with a multiplayer pack.  Im kidding

Of course money is involved, I dont expect bioware to cater to fanboys.  Of course one could argue that fanboys bring in more revenue than mainstream or vice versa. 

[Alraiis]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Yes, I have. And I've noticed, that squadmate interactions are more scarce in ME2, than in ME1, aside from their respective "loyalty" missions, that are not going to be there in ME3.
For example, in ME1 each squadmate had 2-4 unique comments for every major location. In ME2, each had just one for Citadel, Omega, Tuchanka and Illium (that is 4 overall).
In ME2 there were almost no intersquad conversations like the ME1's Elevator conversations.
Occasional comments during missions were approximately at the same level.
And most importantly, the returning squadmates, Tali and Garrus, had the least Normandy conversation of all, unless you were willing to romance them. I guess the same will happen to Liara and Ashley/Kaidan, when they return in ME3.

Interaction is more than just Normandy conversations. Don't disregard loyalty missions---they were ideal for interaction. There was more interaction with, for instance, Tali in her ME2 loyalty mission than in all her ME1 elevator banter and her "Let me tell you about my people" Normandy conversations combined. And that's not counting her lines in Freedom's Progress and Haestrom. Even if it's fewer pages of dialogue (and I'm not sure it is), I still say it's more interaction because you're not just listening to her talk; you're doing something meaningful for and specific to that character as well. It's interaction with an emphasis on the action.

You seem to be assuming that the concrete structure of loyalty missions is the only way that can happen. It isn't necessarily. For my money, I'd like to see more interaction outside the Normandy. ME2 had it. ME3... who knows?

[PseudoEthnic]

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

regardless if any one character had a chance to return as a squadmate it would be legion. There are more plausible explanations for why he could return even if he died

Legion could be sold to Cerberus before you can even talk to him...

-----------------------------------------------

Honestly, threads like this ****** me off because no one has any real proof that the squadmates in ME2 will not be squadmates in ME3 other than saying that they can die toward the end. I'm sure that BioWare has an idea for the crew long before the game came out. I mean, I would be fine if they weren't squdmates so long as they do something great with them. However, if Liara and Ashley/Kaidan are squadmates in ME3 and no one else, I would be severely pissed off. Are you telling me that Garrus and Tali won't be with me all the way to the end, but I'm stuck with these clowns? **** YOU!!!"

[Zulu_DFA]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

regardless if any one character had a chance to return as a squadmate it would be legion. There are more plausible explanations for why he could return even if he died

Legion could be sold to Cerberus before you can even talk to him...

-----------------------------------------------

Honestly, threads like this ****** me off because no one has any real proof that the squadmates in ME2 will not be squadmates in ME3 other than saying that they can die toward the end. I'm sure that BioWare has an idea for the crew long before the game came out. I mean, I would be fine if they weren't squdmates so long as they do something great with them. However, if Liara and Ashley/Kaidan are squadmates in ME3 and no one else, I would be severely pissed off. Are you telling me that Garrus and Tali won't be with me all the way to the end, but I'm stuck with these clowns? **** YOU!!!"

Posts like this make me feel that it was BioWare's intention to make up not "characters" but some tomagochi pokemates so that kids can develop unhealthy addictions and fiddle with them until they get their orgasmic pleasure.*

Even the cheezy Mass Effect 2 was advertized by Casey Hudson like: "You'll like it first for the combat, but will stay for the story". And in a story characters must take their place if only they are justified by the plot. In Mass Effect all the 6 characters had their justification: Kaidan was Shepard's comrade in arms, so was Ashley, Tali, Garrus and Wrex helped to expose Saren to the Council (and you could refrain from recruiting one of them, in case Saren had been exposed), Liara's knowledge of Ilos was vital. In Mass Effect 2 the characters had their Justification too: Miranda and Jacob were Cerberus operatives, and most of the rest were on TIM's BAMF list. Legion, Grunt and Morinth had no apparent justification and they could have been left inactive (that is only 25%).

So, ME2 squadmates, if they are to be recruitable for ME3 must have justification to be there in terms of the story. But not only they can die on the "suicide mission", but also may have serious reasons to leave: Thane is dying and needs to reconnect his son, Mordin is quite old too, Tali may have been exonerated, but hates Shepard's guts for selling out her late father, Samara may want to kill Shepard for his renegade attitude, Zaeed may want to get to Vido, Grunt and Legion may have their reasons too (or they may not have been not recruited in the first place). Miranda may want to relocate her sister once more, Jacob may want to check that Hugo Goernsback beacon... wait... Any of the ME2 characters may be "unloyal" in the import savefile = have a reason to leave!

Even if all 12 are happy aboard the Normandy by the end of ME2, ME3 has to be a stand alone game, appealing to new customers (as always). That's why a plot twist (like this) has to take place. Which means all squadmates will need to be re-recruited! And this will be hard enough to do with Ashley/Kaiden (hates Shepard's guts) and Liara (moved on, replacing the Shadow Broker). Whereas ME3 has to take us to new locations and uncover new secrets about the Reapers. Old characters simply can't do that better than new ones (that are automatically justified by the story itself and not by the fans' preference).

So the point stands: new characters will be a better solution to the "less squadmates, more interaction" demand, than ME2 expendables.

_____________________
* EDIT:  And call everyone who has not developed such addictions a trolling hater and say **** things to them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2010 - 11:14 .

[Garuda One]

"Posts like this make me feel that it was BioWare's intention to make up not "characters" but some tomagochi pokemates so that kids can develop unhealthy addictions and fiddle with them until they get their orgasmic pleasure."



God that made me laugh for a good 6mins. Awesome

Also, didnt realize what could happen with Za'eed the Renegade way. Im a Carebear.

Modifié par Garuda One, 16 avril 2010 - 10:40 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Garuda One wrote...

"Posts like this make me feel that it was BioWare's intention to make up not "characters" but some tomagochi pokemates so that kids can develop unhealthy addictions and fiddle with them until they get their orgasmic pleasure."



God that made me laugh for a good 6mins. Awesome

Also, didnt realize what could happen with Za'eed the Renegade way. Im a Carebear.

Joker: Zaeed is like you only takes checks...
Zaeed is a perfect renegade.

BTW, OFFTOPIC (ain't I THE BOSS of this thread?).

Wanted to post this idle thought separateley but couldn't complete it:

Shepard 
 Spacer  War Hero Paragon  = David Anderson
 Spacer  Sole Survivor Paragon  = Ellen Ripley
 Spacer  Ruthless Paragon  = Malcolm Reynolds
 Colonist War Hero Paragon  = Luke Skywalker
 Colonist Sole Survivor Paragon  = Johny Rico
 Colonist Ruthless Paragon  = Allan Quartermain  
 Earthborn War Hero Paragon  = John Connor
 Earthborn Sole Survivor Paragon  = ???
 Earthborn Ruthless Paragon  = ???
 Spacer  War Hero Renegade = Han Solo
 Spacer  Sole Survivor Renegade = ???
 Spacer  Ruthless Renegade = ???
 Colonist War Hero Renegade = Anakin Skywalker
 Colonist Sole Survivor Renegade = Mad Max
 Colonist Ruthless Renegade = Douglas Quaid/Hauzer
 Earthborn War Hero Renegade = Corbain Dallas
 Earthborn Sole Survivor Renegade = Riddick
 Earthborn Ruthless Renegade = Zaeed Massani

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2010 - 10:51 .

[HTTP 404]

what is Malcolm Reynolds? I would say Jayne Cobb could be a Spacer Ruthless Renegade

[Peppard]

Zulu_DFA wrote... 
So the point stands: new characters will be a better solution to the "less squadmates, more interaction" demand, than ME2 expendables.

  The point does not stand.  There isn't actually a demand for "less squadmates, more interaction."  If it appears there is, that is because that poll forced an artificial choice in the abstract.      Do a poll, and I think you will find people also value  having variety and choice among squadmates.     An extreme example, but would you prefer just having hours of dialog with your one and only squadmate, or having several different characters, each with less to say than that one?


People also value continuation, as well as exploration and discovery.   If you personally do not, that's fine, but you lose credibility when you start making wild and insulting insinuations about those who do value continuation.  You cannot control what people say to you, Zulu, but you chose how to react.    You lessen your credibility as someone interested in a logical discussion, when you react the way you did.

I enjoyed the logic and debate about how BW could pull off a return of the ME2/ME1 squad, whether they should or shouldn't, and what pitfalls they might face in trying to do it.  There are a lot of things I've thought about so far, that haven't been discussed that might support Zulu's underlying premise a bit more, but for now, I'll wait for another thread that can stay more civil.      I don't like to ditch logic just to make what I want to happen seem more likely,and I don't see the point in talking to someone who does.

[Jackal904]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Others are expendable => waste of ME3 resources.

How is that a waste of ME3 resources? A huge aspect of all Mass Effect games are squadmate interactions. Lots of resources are supposed to go towards them. Have you ever played a Mass Effect game?

Yes, I have. And I've noticed, that squadmate interactions are more scarce in ME2, than in ME1, aside from their respective "loyalty" missions,

And what about the conversations you can have with them on the Normandy? Did you forget that? When I refer to squadmate interactions, I'm refering to conversations with squadmates on the Normandy, not just party banter or conversations outside the Normandy. While I agree that there are less conversations amongst squadmates outside the Normandy and less party banter in ME2 than in ME1, I don't think that means all ME2 squadmates will not be squadmates in ME3. And you can't just discard their loyalty mission and say it doesn't count as squadmate interaction. It's a whole damn mission dedicated to a single squadmate. I'd say that counts as significant squadmate interaction.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Link to article or it never happened.



If they don't have Leigon and Garrus/Tali, I will be pissed. There was actually an excuse for all your squadmates in ME1 to scatter, no reason for the ME2 squadmates to all vanish.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

what is Malcolm Reynolds? I would say Jayne Cobb could be a Spacer Ruthless Renegade[/quote]

Malcolm Raynolds = Mal from Mission Serenity.
Who is Jayne Cobb?




[quote]Peppard wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote... 
So the point stands: new characters will be a better solution to the "less squadmates, more interaction" demand, than ME2 expendables. [/quote]

  The point does not stand.  There isn't actually a demand for "less squadmates, more interaction."  [/quote]
Yes x2. The point stands, and there is the demand. Look at the poll tally.

[quote]Peppard wrote...
If it appears there is, that is because that poll forced an artificial choice in the abstract. 
[/quote]
The poll is abstract, and as such it is more accurate than any poll, that is rigged specifically to get the desired result, or more precisely to subtly impose a certain way of thinking upon the mass of the voters by triggering their emotions (like the love for certain ME2 squadmates).

[quote]Peppard wrote...
Do a poll, and I think you will find people also value  having variety and choice among squadmates.[/quote]
"Variety and choice among squadmates" = "more squadmates". No, people want more interaction.

[quote]Peppard wrote...
    An extreme example, but would you prefer just having hours of dialog with your one and only squadmate, or having several different characters, each with less to say than that one?
[/quote]
The extremity of your example is a little biased. Why don't you ask whether I prefer just having hours of dialog with my one and only squadmate, or having dozens of different characters, that have as much interaction as infantry units in real time stratagies?
Besides, I clearly state the desired number of fairly interactive ME3 squadmates: 7 (5 new and 2 returning from ME1).

[quote]Peppard wrote...
People also value continuation, as well as exploration and discovery.[/quote]
Continuation could be supplied more easily by a cameo (with alternate dialogue). In ME2 Tali utterly failes to remember Shepard's distrustful treatment of her in ME1 (when Udina has to fors her on you and you don't give her the Geth data), and Garrus fails to live up to Shepard's "mentoring" of him (and acts like they were chums since school, even if he wasn't recruited in ME1). So much for your continuity. Yes I know, many Liara fans were extremely dissapointed with her cameo but there we had another type of continuity - character development...

[quote]Peppard wrote...
If you personally do not, that's fine, but you lose credibility when you start making wild and insulting insinuations about those who do value continuation. [/quote]
???

[quote]Peppard wrote...
You cannot control what people say to you, Zulu, but you chose how to react.    You lessen your credibility as someone interested in a logical discussion, when you react the way you did.[/quote]
I see no reason to reply with logic to posts, that don't have any.

[quote]Peppard wrote...
I enjoyed the logic and debate about how BW could pull off a return of the ME2/ME1 squad, whether they should or shouldn't, and what pitfalls they might face in trying to do it.  There are a lot of things I've thought about so far, that haven't been discussed that might support Zulu's underlying premise a bit more, but for now, I'll wait for another thread that can stay more civil. I don't like to ditch logic just to make what I want to happen seem more likely,and I don't see the point in talking to someone who does.
[/quote]
Actually a couple of pages ago several people expressed their appreciation of this particular thread exactly for how civil it keeps in comparison to some others. But if you really feel that way, why don't you start one?




[quote]Jackal904 wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]Jackal904 wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Others are expendable => waste of ME3 resources.
[/quote]

How is that a waste of ME3 resources? A huge aspect of all Mass Effect games are squadmate interactions. Lots of resources are supposed to go towards them. Have you ever played a Mass Effect game?[/quote]

Yes, I have. And I've noticed, that squadmate interactions are more scarce in ME2, than in ME1, aside from their respective "loyalty" missions,
[/quote]

And what about the conversations you can have with them on the Normandy? Did you forget that? 
......................
And you can't just discard their loyalty mission and say it doesn't count as squadmate interaction. It's a whole damn mission dedicated to a single squadmate. I'd say that counts as significant squadmate interaction.[/quote]

No I didn't, and I said, that the returning characters (Tali & Garrus) had very little dialogue, compared to Mordin, Thane, Samara, and even Legion. Hell, even Zaeed's "merc stories" last longer, than Garrus' dialogue.
And I discard "loyalty missions" in the respect of ME3 where there's not going to be any.




[quote]Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Link to article or it never happened.

If they don't have Leigon and Garrus/Tali, I will be pissed. There was actually an excuse for all your squadmates in ME1 to scatter, no reason for the ME2 squadmates to all vanish.[/quote]

Yes, there are plenty:
1. They may all be dead (and not only on the "suicide mission").
2. They may all be "unloyal".
3. Shepard is going to be busted yet again (not killed, but taken into custody or something...)
4. Some of them may have to fulfill their duties with their folks / do their part in building the Anti-Reaper Coalition in separation with Shepard.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 avril 2010 - 09:29 .

[Zulu_DFA]

New data to mull over from the SURVIVOR show:
All ME2 Lis got voted out ahead any of ME1 LI. Also, some of the fan favorites have proven to pack up as much hate as love, which doesn't add up to their chances of much screen time in ME3.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 avril 2010 - 04:42 .

[darknoon5]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


New data to mull over from the SURVIVOR show:
All ME2 Lis got voted out ahead any of ME1 LI. Also, some of the fan favorites have proven to pack up as much hate as love, which doesn't add up to their chances of much screen time in ME3.

Several people, mainly Miranda fans, were making multiple accounts for those polls, so I wouldn't take them seriously. Also,l that wasn't intended as a popularity poll, so not everyone voted as such. Forgot to mention that, huh.

[Zulu_DFA]

darknoon5 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


New data to mull over from the SURVIVOR show:
All ME2 Lis got voted out ahead any of ME1 LI. Also, some of the fan favorites have proven to pack up as much hate as love, which doesn't add up to their chances of much screen time in ME3.

Several people, mainly Miranda fans, were making multiple accounts for those polls, so I wouldn't take them seriously. Also,l that wasn't intended as a popularity poll, so not everyone voted as such. Forgot to mention that, huh.

Nonetheless...

[GreedIsNoException]

As sad as it makes me I am forced to agree with you because this has been on my thoughts for a long time. You can beat the game with only Joker, Liara, Ashley or Kaiden and two squad mates. And those aren't numbers to defeat the Reapers. I just wish Garrus could still join us

[Breakdown Boy]

1. Asari Matriach Bartender on Illium

2. Parisinni (invetagations officer from Noveria)

3. Mordin nephew

4. Turian Spectre

5. Some soldier dude from the alliance

[CroGamer002]

Oh come on stop waking necro threads!

[II Sl4sh3r II]

scyphozoa wrote...

Personally I value all 12 members of the ME2 cast over Liara/Ash/Kaidan. As far as I'm concerned, Liara/Ash/Kaidan are the 3 worst characters from ME1, while Tali, Garrus and Wrex are the 3 I want to see return in ME3.

Hope to see a Liara/Kaidan/Ash cameo again in ME3 8)

This^

Going from ME1 to ME2 I didn't mind seeing new faces.  I didn't have the connection with those squadmates that I now have with the ME2 squadmates.  When I played ME1 I hardly ever used Garrus.  In ME2 he was one of my main squadmates and now that I'm going back to play ME1 he is one of my main squadmates.  Why would Bioware go through so much trouble to show you each characters background if it was all for nothing? 

[onotix]

1 keeper

2 gordon freeman

3 some asari

4 some turian

5 chris grif- i mean healed joker

[Kitteh303]

My two cents: just because they CAN be absent in ME3, that doesn't necessarily mean they WILL be absent. It's certainly possible, but it would be a stretch to have them all go away. I would find it hard to believe that they would all leave. Thane, Mordin, and Samara, maybe. Respectively: terminally ill, very old, has justicar duties.

[BillyMahoney]

Probably a bit of a long shot but maybe they could make the Normandy hold say 12 different crew members. Anyone saved from ME 2 could be recruitable except maybe they give a couple reasons for some of the unpopular characters not to return. Then perhaps add 6-8 more new recruitable players thus giving you a near to full crew if you killed everyone. I doubt they would do this due to the amount of voice talent and animation required but hey I can dream.

[Spornicus]

2 Human characters. I would say biotic extremist but you pretty much got that with Jack, so someone older from the Alliance, like a colonel or captain (Anderson?) and...what the hell, an insane L2 who lived with Major Kyle. I dunno why, but 2 humans seems necessary. Possible LI's.



Asari commando, as in 200 years old roughly, really brash and arrogant, like those asari eclipse you saw on Ilium. That'd be a change from the very naive Liara and the very wise Samara. Definite LI.



Hanar. You heard Zaeed, those things can strangle a guy to death!



Raloi. Cerberus Daily News wouldn't mention them if you couldn't interact with one of them.



My Shepards will never ever work with a Batarian.